NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[IATT]

Originally Posted by MOE FAB UAFA


To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan. 

I'm going make this as simple as possible,

take duncan off of those spurs championship teams and replace with any all-star PF from that year, do the spurs still win any of those championships?

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?


if i'm in an all-time draft, i'm taking duncan everytime over kobe (especially considering i would be able to draft manu and/or parker later in the draft.. shaq probably gets drafted BEFORE kobe)

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by MOE FAB UAFA


To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan. 

I'm going make this as simple as possible,

take duncan off of those spurs championship teams and replace with any all-star PF from that year, do the spurs still win any of those championships?

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?


if i'm in an all-time draft, i'm taking duncan everytime over kobe (especially considering i would be able to draft manu and/or parker later in the draft.. shaq probably gets drafted BEFORE kobe)

Uh?  You said simple, and this post was not even close to simple.  I mean yeah, Spurs wouldn't have won any titles with KG at PF, nope, not a one, no way.........

Try again man, this was not what you were goin for I hope. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by MOE FAB UAFA


To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan. 

I'm going make this as simple as possible,

take duncan off of those spurs championship teams and replace with any all-star PF from that year, do the spurs still win any of those championships?

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?


if i'm in an all-time draft, i'm taking duncan everytime over kobe (especially considering i would be able to draft manu and/or parker later in the draft.. shaq probably gets drafted BEFORE kobe)

Uh?  You said simple, and this post was not even close to simple.  I mean yeah, Spurs wouldn't have won any titles with KG at PF, nope, not a one, no way.........

Try again man, this was not what you were goin for I hope. 

  

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

CP1708 wrote:

---

To be honest with ya'll, I still have Gary Payton ahead of Jason Kidd any day. 

Gary's defense, and ability to score, while still getting 8 assists (or a mere couple less than Kidd) is more valuable to me than anything Kidd did.  Kidd did rebound better than GP, but a lock down defender like that, at the point of my defense? 

  Gimme that each and every time without question. 


I do too but I aint bring that argument out cause it will upset a lot of people. The only thing you would question when taking Payton over Kidd is that a Payton led team is going to run less than a Kidd team ( in their primes) what do I have to surround Payton and Kidd with. But Payton's post game is the epitome of what you want out of a normal sized pg.
VCFAN It became a debate in the 80's with Isiah and Stockton
When you look at their careers they mirror the debate between a modern day Isiah in Rose and Westbrook, and a modern day Stockton in Paul. Williams is something in between with a little Jason Kidd mixed in.
I said this in the "clear cut best player in the game thread" it depends on what your building around.
Titles in the case of superstars show that your skills were good enough and or well rounded enough for you to be the main or close to the main cog in teams that accomplished the ultimate.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

CP1708 wrote:

---

To be honest with ya'll, I still have Gary Payton ahead of Jason Kidd any day. 

Gary's defense, and ability to score, while still getting 8 assists (or a mere couple less than Kidd) is more valuable to me than anything Kidd did.  Kidd did rebound better than GP, but a lock down defender like that, at the point of my defense? 

  Gimme that each and every time without question. 


I do too but I aint bring that argument out cause it will upset a lot of people. The only thing you would question when taking Payton over Kidd is that a Payton led team is going to run less than a Kidd team ( in their primes) what do I have to surround Payton and Kidd with. But Payton's post game is the epitome of what you want out of a normal sized pg.
VCFAN It became a debate in the 80's with Isiah and Stockton
When you look at their careers they mirror the debate between a modern day Isiah in Rose and Westbrook, and a modern day Stockton in Paul. Williams is something in between with a little Jason Kidd mixed in.
I said this in the "clear cut best player in the game thread" it depends on what your building around.
Titles in the case of superstars show that your skills were good enough and or well rounded enough for you to be the main or close to the main cog in teams that accomplished the ultimate.

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by CP1708

gets drafted BEFORE kobe)Uh?  You said simple, and this post was not even close to simple.  I mean yeah, Spurs wouldn't have won any titles with KG at PF, nope, not a one, no way.........

Try again man, this was not what you were goin for I hope. 

  

so they win all 4 with KG?




and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by CP1708

gets drafted BEFORE kobe)Uh?  You said simple, and this post was not even close to simple.  I mean yeah, Spurs wouldn't have won any titles with KG at PF, nope, not a one, no way.........

Try again man, this was not what you were goin for I hope. 

  

so they win all 4 with KG?




and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

 

[darthska]

I've said this before on here and it didn't go well, but here goes:

itsaboutthattime:

---

MOE FAB UAFA:

---

To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan.
I'm going make this as simple as possible,

take duncan off of those spurs championship teams and replace with any all-star PF from that year, do the spurs still win any of those championships?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

itsaboutthattime:

---

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?
YES! Yes, yes, yes, and YES AGAIN. I've mentioned that if we had ANY star SG during those 3-peat titles, we would have STILL 3-peated. I've thrown out Iverson, T-Mac, even Allan Houston... and people laugh. YES, those championships were won because of Shaq and Kobe, but the word 'Kobe' could be substituted for 'star SG', and the results would have been the same. The word 'Shaq' could NOT have been substituted for 'star center'.

 

[darthska]

I've said this before on here and it didn't go well, but here goes:

itsaboutthattime:

---

MOE FAB UAFA:

---

To the guy who said Duncan>Kobe, Kobe has more rings, better stats, and has also had a bigger "fear factor" than Duncan.
I'm going make this as simple as possible,

take duncan off of those spurs championship teams and replace with any all-star PF from that year, do the spurs still win any of those championships?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

itsaboutthattime:

---

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?
YES! Yes, yes, yes, and YES AGAIN. I've mentioned that if we had ANY star SG during those 3-peat titles, we would have STILL 3-peated. I've thrown out Iverson, T-Mac, even Allan Houston... and people laugh. YES, those championships were won because of Shaq and Kobe, but the word 'Kobe' could be substituted for 'star SG', and the results would have been the same. The word 'Shaq' could NOT have been substituted for 'star center'.

 

[pmatic]

I'm taking Duncan over Kobe in their primes because I value big men much more than perimeter players (unless your name is Michael Jordan). But as a career from start to finish, I'll take Kobe. Duncan's legacy is about 99% solidified at this point, while I feel Kobe has room to elevate his legacy just a bit.

 

[pmatic]

I'm taking Duncan over Kobe in their primes because I value big men much more than perimeter players (unless your name is Michael Jordan). But as a career from start to finish, I'll take Kobe. Duncan's legacy is about 99% solidified at this point, while I feel Kobe has room to elevate his legacy just a bit.

 

[darthska]

VC3FAN:

---

I just think a lot people stare at his shooting numbers and go from their. One of the last TRUE PG's you may see in a while.

Now the position is filled with the likes of Rose, Westbrooks, DWill, CP3, ETC ETC who do make others around them better but can control the game from the beginning to end without getting others involved. Kidd is the last PG left IMO that needed others involved like a true PG once did.
your opinion = mine

 

[darthska]

VC3FAN:

---

I just think a lot people stare at his shooting numbers and go from their. One of the last TRUE PG's you may see in a while.

Now the position is filled with the likes of Rose, Westbrooks, DWill, CP3, ETC ETC who do make others around them better but can control the game from the beginning to end without getting others involved. Kidd is the last PG left IMO that needed others involved like a true PG once did.
your opinion = mine

 

[IATT]

and i'm sure KG might have been able to win 1.. maybe 2.. but no way does he win the 4 that duncan did


if kobe is replaced by ray allen or tracy mcgrady (the only all-stars i can think of from that period right now) does LA miss a beat?

 

[IATT]

and i'm sure KG might have been able to win 1.. maybe 2.. but no way does he win the 4 that duncan did


if kobe is replaced by ray allen or tracy mcgrady (the only all-stars i can think of from that period right now) does LA miss a beat?

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by CP1708

gets drafted BEFORE kobe)Uh?  You said simple, and this post was not even close to simple.  I mean yeah, Spurs wouldn't have won any titles with KG at PF, nope, not a one, no way.........

Try again man, this was not what you were goin for I hope. 

  

so they win all 4 with KG?




and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

you sure?  You may make the case for the first title (even though without Kobe they don't make it to the finals at all and lose to the Blazers)....

2001 Playoffs averaged 29.4points (28.8 regular season)
2002 Playoffs averaged 26.6points (25.4 regular season)


NONSENSE..
  

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by CP1708

gets drafted BEFORE kobe)Uh?  You said simple, and this post was not even close to simple.  I mean yeah, Spurs wouldn't have won any titles with KG at PF, nope, not a one, no way.........

Try again man, this was not what you were goin for I hope. 

  

so they win all 4 with KG?




and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

you sure?  You may make the case for the first title (even though without Kobe they don't make it to the finals at all and lose to the Blazers)....

2001 Playoffs averaged 29.4points (28.8 regular season)
2002 Playoffs averaged 26.6points (25.4 regular season)


NONSENSE..
  

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by Essential1

itsaboutthattime wrote:

and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

you sure?  You may make the case for the first title (even though without Kobe they don't make it to the finals at all and lose to the Blazers)....

2001 Playoffs averaged 29.4points (28.8 regular season)
2002 Playoffs averaged 26.6points (25.4 regular season)


NONSENSE..
  


it's nonsense to say that it would have been easier to replace kobe on those first 3 lakers championship teams than duncan on all 4 of his?

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by Essential1

itsaboutthattime wrote:

and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

you sure?  You may make the case for the first title (even though without Kobe they don't make it to the finals at all and lose to the Blazers)....

2001 Playoffs averaged 29.4points (28.8 regular season)
2002 Playoffs averaged 26.6points (25.4 regular season)


NONSENSE..
  


it's nonsense to say that it would have been easier to replace kobe on those first 3 lakers championship teams than duncan on all 4 of his?

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by Essential1

itsaboutthattime wrote:

and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

you sure?  You may make the case for the first title (even though without Kobe they don't make it to the finals at all and lose to the Blazers)....

2001 Playoffs averaged 29.4points (28.8 regular season)
2002 Playoffs averaged 26.6points (25.4 regular season)


NONSENSE..
  

it's nonsense to say that it would have been easier to replace kobe on those first 3 lakers championship teams than duncan on all 4 of his?
They both were indispensible to either team....

It's nonsense to even think Kobe could have been replaced on that team especially the 2nd and 3rd title where he score amazingly...  You could possibly argue the 1st title in 2000.. But I could say in 2007 you could easily have replaced Tim Duncan with a good PF and won..

To say I could have picked any 2guard in the All Star Game from that year put them with Shaq and they would have won is nonsense because Kobe constantly had to step up, make huge comebacks for the Lakers, set the tone, and knockdown huge shots that only 3 or 4 guys in history could consistently make..
  

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I've said this before on here and it didn't go well, but here goes:

itsaboutthattime:

---

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?

YES! Yes, yes, yes, and YES AGAIN. I've mentioned that if we had ANY star SG during those 3-peat titles, we would have STILL 3-peated. I've thrown out Iverson, T-Mac, even Allan Houston... and people laugh. YES, those championships were won because of Shaq and Kobe, but the word 'Kobe' could be substituted for 'star SG', and the results would have been the same. The word 'Shaq' could NOT have been substituted for 'star center'.

Agreed. But maybe just T-Mac, Carter, or even Pierce. Nothing against Iverson or Houston. 

However, I would still pick Kobe over all of them if I had the choice for that role. I can understand Kobe fans being disrespected about your opinion tho. 

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by Essential1

itsaboutthattime wrote:

and the simplicity of my post was to point out that kobe would have been easier to replace on 3 out of his 5 championships than duncan would have been on all 4 of his
  

you sure?  You may make the case for the first title (even though without Kobe they don't make it to the finals at all and lose to the Blazers)....

2001 Playoffs averaged 29.4points (28.8 regular season)
2002 Playoffs averaged 26.6points (25.4 regular season)


NONSENSE..
  

it's nonsense to say that it would have been easier to replace kobe on those first 3 lakers championship teams than duncan on all 4 of his?
They both were indispensible to either team....

It's nonsense to even think Kobe could have been replaced on that team especially the 2nd and 3rd title where he score amazingly...  You could possibly argue the 1st title in 2000.. But I could say in 2007 you could easily have replaced Tim Duncan with a good PF and won..

To say I could have picked any 2guard in the All Star Game from that year put them with Shaq and they would have won is nonsense because Kobe constantly had to step up, make huge comebacks for the Lakers, set the tone, and knockdown huge shots that only 3 or 4 guys in history could consistently make..
  

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I've said this before on here and it didn't go well, but here goes:

itsaboutthattime:

---

take kobe off of those lakers championship teams and replace him with any all-star SG from that year, do the lakers still win those championships?

YES! Yes, yes, yes, and YES AGAIN. I've mentioned that if we had ANY star SG during those 3-peat titles, we would have STILL 3-peated. I've thrown out Iverson, T-Mac, even Allan Houston... and people laugh. YES, those championships were won because of Shaq and Kobe, but the word 'Kobe' could be substituted for 'star SG', and the results would have been the same. The word 'Shaq' could NOT have been substituted for 'star center'.

Agreed. But maybe just T-Mac, Carter, or even Pierce. Nothing against Iverson or Houston. 

However, I would still pick Kobe over all of them if I had the choice for that role. I can understand Kobe fans being disrespected about your opinion tho. 

 

[darthska]

Star players make star plays.

Take any star SG... which means he's making star plays for his non-Laker team already... and throw him on the Lakers, and he would step up, too.

Those timely drive-and-dishes to Shaq... only Kobe could do that? Really? Outscoring opponents by himself for stretches of 4 or 5 minutes, only Kobe did that back then for his team? Penetrating and finishing at the basket and stepping outside to drill jumpers, leaving the defense clueless on how to stop him, only Kobe did that? T-Mac couldn't have done those things? Iverson couldn't do them? Vince?

Yes, they would have done those things for us. Coupled w/ Shaq, coached by Phil... yes, they would have done those things for us.

 

[darthska]

Star players make star plays.

Take any star SG... which means he's making star plays for his non-Laker team already... and throw him on the Lakers, and he would step up, too.

Those timely drive-and-dishes to Shaq... only Kobe could do that? Really? Outscoring opponents by himself for stretches of 4 or 5 minutes, only Kobe did that back then for his team? Penetrating and finishing at the basket and stepping outside to drill jumpers, leaving the defense clueless on how to stop him, only Kobe did that? T-Mac couldn't have done those things? Iverson couldn't do them? Vince?

Yes, they would have done those things for us. Coupled w/ Shaq, coached by Phil... yes, they would have done those things for us.