NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[darthska]

Ray and Houston are inferior defenders to Kobe, yeah, but there were definitely stretches where they carried their teams on their backs (I remember your time w/ the Bucks, Ray-Ray).

And don't act like Shaq never made comments against Kobe while they were both Lakers.

Let's not forget how they parted ways.

Most of those pro-Kobe comments were undoubtedly made with the understanding "Kobe's my teammate. That's not going to change. Here are my comments in support of my teammate."

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

CP1708 wrote:

---

Oh, so Vince Carter was just gonna walk in the gym in Indiana in game 4 in OT without Shaq and just put down 4 shots straight to ice the game, with a sore ankle........
Cuz, ya know, Vince is known for that. 

  Have any of you even seen that gif of him, as a grown @#$ man, about to shoot free throws, lookin like a scared child at supper when mommy just called daddy a cheater?  Someone drop that in here for me, then let's talk switchin Kobe out for Vince like it's nothing. 

Ray Allen and Allan Houston I would have LOVED to have seen play off Shaq.  I think it would have been awesome with their shooting.  But ball handling, running the point sometimes, defense?  We don't need those anymore?  And when Shaq was off the court, they could create for other players on their own? 

  One of these guys could have guarded AI for stretches?  Not full time of course, not sayin that, but any single minutes they would have spent on AI would have resulted in either a layup, or a foul on Shaq.  So, uh, yeah they were great shooters to put around Shaq, sure. 

Iverson, come on.  COME ON.  In the triangle, next to Derek Fisher, and Shaq needs touches.  Really? 


TMac, yes, I can agree that he would have won titles with Shaq.  I have no problem there, just as KG could have won in San Antonio in his prime. 


You guys are trying to sell me that replacing one of the 10 best players of all time is/woulda been, easy.  Like it's nothing.  Just any other SG, sure.  You really just did that.  Yeesh. 

At worst, the KG/Duncan part is another guy that is top 25ish all time, you all came at me with dudes in the 70 or 80 range, and Ray Allen a top 60 player. 

Iverson at 80?
Nah I aint down with that.....
If you got Glen Rice and Ray Allen one becomes redundant does he not?
From a development standpoint Tmac didnt get to Kobe until maybe 2001-2002, and more than likely your looking at 2002- 2003
If its Kobe and Duncan it rivals Russell and Havlack. You cannot make a compounding arguement for Tmac, Vince, RayAllen, Allan Houston Spree, Pierce or anyother SG of that era
At Worse its KG at 23 Tim at 7-8 and Webber at right below Malone and Barkley and maybe Kevin Mchale all within the top 60.
Ska your blinded by your Kobe hate right now.
Jason Kidd and Kobe with Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin are better than that last 3peat team
Kobe and Tmac are playing the Lakers with Vince in 2001, and he cant guard either guy.
All of those guys sans maybe Paul Pierce are getting torched by every other SG you can think of from that era.
Iverson aint change for no body, Phil Jackson wouldnt broach the subject and might not come to LA.
Your also overrating Phil at this point.
Your best Kobe Hating arguement would be for a
Kidd Marion Rice Shaq team. and then they keep Eddie Jones.
So its Kidd ,Jones, Marion, random PF, Shaq
With Kobe in Phoenix.
And In Milwaukee   Ray was the 3rd late game option
GTFOHWTBS SKA
And CP is right about MAC, but he wasnt there as far as development in 2000 or even 2002, maybe thats Butch Carter not playing Mac I dont know.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

CP1708 wrote:

---

Oh, so Vince Carter was just gonna walk in the gym in Indiana in game 4 in OT without Shaq and just put down 4 shots straight to ice the game, with a sore ankle........
Cuz, ya know, Vince is known for that. 

  Have any of you even seen that gif of him, as a grown @#$ man, about to shoot free throws, lookin like a scared child at supper when mommy just called daddy a cheater?  Someone drop that in here for me, then let's talk switchin Kobe out for Vince like it's nothing. 

Ray Allen and Allan Houston I would have LOVED to have seen play off Shaq.  I think it would have been awesome with their shooting.  But ball handling, running the point sometimes, defense?  We don't need those anymore?  And when Shaq was off the court, they could create for other players on their own? 

  One of these guys could have guarded AI for stretches?  Not full time of course, not sayin that, but any single minutes they would have spent on AI would have resulted in either a layup, or a foul on Shaq.  So, uh, yeah they were great shooters to put around Shaq, sure. 

Iverson, come on.  COME ON.  In the triangle, next to Derek Fisher, and Shaq needs touches.  Really? 


TMac, yes, I can agree that he would have won titles with Shaq.  I have no problem there, just as KG could have won in San Antonio in his prime. 


You guys are trying to sell me that replacing one of the 10 best players of all time is/woulda been, easy.  Like it's nothing.  Just any other SG, sure.  You really just did that.  Yeesh. 

At worst, the KG/Duncan part is another guy that is top 25ish all time, you all came at me with dudes in the 70 or 80 range, and Ray Allen a top 60 player. 

Iverson at 80?
Nah I aint down with that.....
If you got Glen Rice and Ray Allen one becomes redundant does he not?
From a development standpoint Tmac didnt get to Kobe until maybe 2001-2002, and more than likely your looking at 2002- 2003
If its Kobe and Duncan it rivals Russell and Havlack. You cannot make a compounding arguement for Tmac, Vince, RayAllen, Allan Houston Spree, Pierce or anyother SG of that era
At Worse its KG at 23 Tim at 7-8 and Webber at right below Malone and Barkley and maybe Kevin Mchale all within the top 60.
Ska your blinded by your Kobe hate right now.
Jason Kidd and Kobe with Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin are better than that last 3peat team
Kobe and Tmac are playing the Lakers with Vince in 2001, and he cant guard either guy.
All of those guys sans maybe Paul Pierce are getting torched by every other SG you can think of from that era.
Iverson aint change for no body, Phil Jackson wouldnt broach the subject and might not come to LA.
Your also overrating Phil at this point.
Your best Kobe Hating arguement would be for a
Kidd Marion Rice Shaq team. and then they keep Eddie Jones.
So its Kidd ,Jones, Marion, random PF, Shaq
With Kobe in Phoenix.
And In Milwaukee   Ray was the 3rd late game option
GTFOHWTBS SKA
And CP is right about MAC, but he wasnt there as far as development in 2000 or even 2002, maybe thats Butch Carter not playing Mac I dont know.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Imagining Vince and Iverson outside of a system (llike the triangle) and away from a prolific big, it's easy to do that and laugh.

But how about doing the same for Kobe? Imagine Kobe outside of a triangle, away from Shaq?

Remember?

You take THAT selfish, insulting ballhog... and then laugh at the notion of Iverson sharing? Looking at Kobe immediately after Phil/Shaq, it's tough to look at that ALONE and ask yourself if that guy would 3-peat. You'd laugh at that notion just like you're laughing about it w/ Vince.

It's silly to imagine that, because of course that Kobe came AFTER already 3-peating.

You put THAT Kobe on different teams throughout his career, and he's the butt of some of your jokes, too, w/ maybe a ring or 2.

Vince, Iverson, H20, T-Mac, Pierce... I don't care who... their game would have been adjusted by playing in Phil's system and playing w/ the best center of our generation.

Ska, would Vince Carter have the balls to play in the big moments as a kid? Ask yourself that.  You just watched Lebron James 26 year old self have issues with, now you want to take a weaker man in Vince, and just insert him at a younger age, and just assume he'd be gravy? 

Sure, ok, Iverson learns to share the ball, fantastic, when does he learn to be 6-6 and defend for 48 minutes? 

That's what I'm sayin, yes aspects of their game would work with Shaq and Phil, Kobe put ALL of it together.  Shooting, ballhandling, defense, length, speed, heart, clutch in big moments, ALL of it.  The rest could not say that.  No way, no how.  TMac is the only other guy that could have put the same package in place, he could do everything Kobe could, other than maybe the whole second round stuff, I dunno if he would have the balls/heart for those moments, never seen it happen before.  But I'll assume he could have figured it out with Phil. 



  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Imagining Vince and Iverson outside of a system (llike the triangle) and away from a prolific big, it's easy to do that and laugh.

But how about doing the same for Kobe? Imagine Kobe outside of a triangle, away from Shaq?

Remember?

You take THAT selfish, insulting ballhog... and then laugh at the notion of Iverson sharing? Looking at Kobe immediately after Phil/Shaq, it's tough to look at that ALONE and ask yourself if that guy would 3-peat. You'd laugh at that notion just like you're laughing about it w/ Vince.

It's silly to imagine that, because of course that Kobe came AFTER already 3-peating.

You put THAT Kobe on different teams throughout his career, and he's the butt of some of your jokes, too, w/ maybe a ring or 2.

Vince, Iverson, H20, T-Mac, Pierce... I don't care who... their game would have been adjusted by playing in Phil's system and playing w/ the best center of our generation.

Ska, would Vince Carter have the balls to play in the big moments as a kid? Ask yourself that.  You just watched Lebron James 26 year old self have issues with, now you want to take a weaker man in Vince, and just insert him at a younger age, and just assume he'd be gravy? 

Sure, ok, Iverson learns to share the ball, fantastic, when does he learn to be 6-6 and defend for 48 minutes? 

That's what I'm sayin, yes aspects of their game would work with Shaq and Phil, Kobe put ALL of it together.  Shooting, ballhandling, defense, length, speed, heart, clutch in big moments, ALL of it.  The rest could not say that.  No way, no how.  TMac is the only other guy that could have put the same package in place, he could do everything Kobe could, other than maybe the whole second round stuff, I dunno if he would have the balls/heart for those moments, never seen it happen before.  But I'll assume he could have figured it out with Phil. 



  

 

[N41D]

Kidd shot 40% for 2 and a half years before this one and he hit LOADS of big triples this year and throughout the playoffs... He guy transformed himself as a shooter the last couple of years working with Dirk.

But for most of his career he was not a good shooter and it's not up for debate. If he shot the basketball in his prime the way he's shot since his return to Dallas, he has a very legitimate case as the best point guard of all-time.


And I think there's an awful lot of disrespect being tossed Kobe Bryant's way these last couple of pages... Some of yall need to relax.

 

[N41D]

Kidd shot 40% for 2 and a half years before this one and he hit LOADS of big triples this year and throughout the playoffs... He guy transformed himself as a shooter the last couple of years working with Dirk.

But for most of his career he was not a good shooter and it's not up for debate. If he shot the basketball in his prime the way he's shot since his return to Dallas, he has a very legitimate case as the best point guard of all-time.


And I think there's an awful lot of disrespect being tossed Kobe Bryant's way these last couple of pages... Some of yall need to relax.

 

[CP1708]

What's funny is earlier today I was thinkin it would be nice to have Ray Allen in his prime right now, could you imagine CP3, Dwight, Ray as a big 3? 

 

Look at that again, Paul, Ray, and Dwight.  Get 2 decent defending forwards, and it would be straight abuse.  Paul havin options for both inside and outside. 

Ray might be one of my favorite non Lakers of all time.  The guy can shoot like a mad man, and he had more game then people give him credit for.  I just don't know if he could handle the ball or defend enough for the early 2000 Lakers.  But I wish he was 26 right now and could sign with those 2.  I wanna know what Kev would think about that Big 3.  He would be in heaven. 

 

[CP1708]

What's funny is earlier today I was thinkin it would be nice to have Ray Allen in his prime right now, could you imagine CP3, Dwight, Ray as a big 3? 

 

Look at that again, Paul, Ray, and Dwight.  Get 2 decent defending forwards, and it would be straight abuse.  Paul havin options for both inside and outside. 

Ray might be one of my favorite non Lakers of all time.  The guy can shoot like a mad man, and he had more game then people give him credit for.  I just don't know if he could handle the ball or defend enough for the early 2000 Lakers.  But I wish he was 26 right now and could sign with those 2.  I wanna know what Kev would think about that Big 3.  He would be in heaven. 

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

You got time to give us our first Dirk post?  I know JA will come thru at some point, but he's already gotten Kidd taken care of.  Your damn handle came from Dirk, you should have the honor. 

(wait, I think Osh does have one already, but as a Mavs fan you would be first then.  I'll post it above Osh's comment, I'm tryin to go fan, neutral, "against" as best I can in terms of order of comments in their resumes) 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

You got time to give us our first Dirk post?  I know JA will come thru at some point, but he's already gotten Kidd taken care of.  Your damn handle came from Dirk, you should have the honor. 

(wait, I think Osh does have one already, but as a Mavs fan you would be first then.  I'll post it above Osh's comment, I'm tryin to go fan, neutral, "against" as best I can in terms of order of comments in their resumes) 

  

 

[statis22]

Kobe carrying the Lakers in game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals imo is a very underrated part of his career nobody really talks about (or that I see talked about).

IDK many 21 year olds who could have done that, against that Pacers team.

 

[statis22]

Kobe carrying the Lakers in game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals imo is a very underrated part of his career nobody really talks about (or that I see talked about).

IDK many 21 year olds who could have done that, against that Pacers team.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Kidd shot 40% for 2 and a half years before this one and he hit LOADS of big triples this year and throughout the playoffs... He guy transformed himself as a shooter the last couple of years working with Dirk.

But for most of his career he was not a good shooter and it's not up for debate. If he shot the basketball in his prime the way he's shot since his return to Dallas, he has a very legitimate case as the best point guard of all-time.


And I think there's an awful lot of disrespect being tossed Kobe Bryant's way these last couple of pages... Some of yall need to relax.

I let it go cause I know Ska has a thing about Kobe, but he is straight up hating on him.
Like Allan Houston
Mike I mentioned Spree cause he's better than Houston, and he is a SG.
I dont think that Ray ever lived up to his prime potiental I think the Seattle years give the best glimpse though.
As a Buck he had Cassell and Big dog as ball hogs.

  

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Kidd shot 40% for 2 and a half years before this one and he hit LOADS of big triples this year and throughout the playoffs... He guy transformed himself as a shooter the last couple of years working with Dirk.

But for most of his career he was not a good shooter and it's not up for debate. If he shot the basketball in his prime the way he's shot since his return to Dallas, he has a very legitimate case as the best point guard of all-time.


And I think there's an awful lot of disrespect being tossed Kobe Bryant's way these last couple of pages... Some of yall need to relax.

I let it go cause I know Ska has a thing about Kobe, but he is straight up hating on him.
Like Allan Houston
Mike I mentioned Spree cause he's better than Houston, and he is a SG.
I dont think that Ray ever lived up to his prime potiental I think the Seattle years give the best glimpse though.
As a Buck he had Cassell and Big dog as ball hogs.

  

 

[darthska]

gangsta207therevolution:

---

Jason Kidd and Kobe with Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin are better than that last 3peat team
Kobe and Tmac are playing the Lakers with Vince in 2001, and he cant guard either guy.
All of those guys sans maybe Paul Pierce are getting torched by every other SG you can think of from that era.
Iverson aint change for no body, Phil Jackson wouldnt broach the subject and might not come to LA.
Your also overrating Phil at this point.
Your best Kobe Hating arguement would be for a
Kidd Marion Rice Shaq team. and then they keep Eddie Jones.
So its Kidd ,Jones, Marion, random PF, Shaq
With Kobe in Phoenix.
And In Milwaukee   Ray was the 3rd late game option
GTFOHWTBS SKA
But I didn't say any of that BS. None of it.

All I said was...
... Kobe could have been swapped for any of the other top tier SGs, and their game would have been adjusted to the tune of a 3-peat.
... Kobe could have been on a team that never had a system like the triangle and never had Shaq, and you guys would be laughing today at the notion of him being substituted for 'star Laker SG' who 3-peated for us. "What? The same Kobe who _________ (insert criticism here) would have lead us to championships?! bahahahaha"

Those 2 things are all I'm saying. You filled in all the specifics.

 

[darthska]

gangsta207therevolution:

---

Jason Kidd and Kobe with Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin are better than that last 3peat team
Kobe and Tmac are playing the Lakers with Vince in 2001, and he cant guard either guy.
All of those guys sans maybe Paul Pierce are getting torched by every other SG you can think of from that era.
Iverson aint change for no body, Phil Jackson wouldnt broach the subject and might not come to LA.
Your also overrating Phil at this point.
Your best Kobe Hating arguement would be for a
Kidd Marion Rice Shaq team. and then they keep Eddie Jones.
So its Kidd ,Jones, Marion, random PF, Shaq
With Kobe in Phoenix.
And In Milwaukee   Ray was the 3rd late game option
GTFOHWTBS SKA
But I didn't say any of that BS. None of it.

All I said was...
... Kobe could have been swapped for any of the other top tier SGs, and their game would have been adjusted to the tune of a 3-peat.
... Kobe could have been on a team that never had a system like the triangle and never had Shaq, and you guys would be laughing today at the notion of him being substituted for 'star Laker SG' who 3-peated for us. "What? The same Kobe who _________ (insert criticism here) would have lead us to championships?! bahahahaha"

Those 2 things are all I'm saying. You filled in all the specifics.

 

[CP1708]

Everyone can relax, Ska is a certified Laker fan, he has every single right in the world to talk on Kobe, he's seen as many of Kobe's games as anyone around, it's not hate or whatever when it's your own dang team guys. 

  Let the guy breathe.  We have plenty of people in here that will be pro Kobe, let someone else speak freely "against" Kobe.  That's the point of discussing resumes and of course, Legacies. 

He's not hating, he's giving a different view of Kobe as a Laker fan.  Let him speak without freaking.  Arguing a point is fine, chill with all the "hater" crap. 

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Statis22 wrote:

---

Kobe carrying the Lakers in game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals imo is a very underrated part of his career nobody really talks about (or that I see talked about).

IDK many 21 year olds who could have done that, against that Pacers team.
Same Pacers team that took Mike to game 7 - some contributions from Chris Mullin + contributions from Jalen Rose.
Its a shame the man's got damn coming out party is dismissed.
CP one of these days we got to do like a 2 hour u stream
Maybe by weekly?

  

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Statis22 wrote:

---

Kobe carrying the Lakers in game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals imo is a very underrated part of his career nobody really talks about (or that I see talked about).

IDK many 21 year olds who could have done that, against that Pacers team.
Same Pacers team that took Mike to game 7 - some contributions from Chris Mullin + contributions from Jalen Rose.
Its a shame the man's got damn coming out party is dismissed.
CP one of these days we got to do like a 2 hour u stream
Maybe by weekly?

  

 

[CP1708]

Everyone can relax, Ska is a certified Laker fan, he has every single right in the world to talk on Kobe, he's seen as many of Kobe's games as anyone around, it's not hate or whatever when it's your own dang team guys. 

  Let the guy breathe.  We have plenty of people in here that will be pro Kobe, let someone else speak freely "against" Kobe.  That's the point of discussing resumes and of course, Legacies. 

He's not hating, he's giving a different view of Kobe as a Laker fan.  Let him speak without freaking.  Arguing a point is fine, chill with all the "hater" crap. 

 

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by deepinthajeep

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

Originally Posted by deepinthajeep

^ I think you must value the ring more than the Finals MVP, because w/ those numbers alone...they're all tied.

Kobe - 5 rings + 2 Finals MVP = 7
Shaq/TD - 4 Rings + 3 Finals MVP = 7

tie-breaker goes to Kobe (rings).

the worst analysis. no

How so?

so you're gonna sit here and say robert horry is better than billups or james worthy...
log off 

 

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by deepinthajeep

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

Originally Posted by deepinthajeep

^ I think you must value the ring more than the Finals MVP, because w/ those numbers alone...they're all tied.

Kobe - 5 rings + 2 Finals MVP = 7
Shaq/TD - 4 Rings + 3 Finals MVP = 7

tie-breaker goes to Kobe (rings).

the worst analysis. no

How so?

so you're gonna sit here and say robert horry is better than billups or james worthy...
log off 

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by CP1708

What's funny is earlier today I was thinkin it would be nice to have Ray Allen in his prime right now, could you imagine CP3, Dwight, Ray as a big 3? 

 

Look at that again, Paul, Ray, and Dwight.  Get 2 decent defending forwards, and it would be straight abuse.  Paul havin options for both inside and outside. 

Ray might be one of my favorite non Lakers of all time.  The guy can shoot like a mad man, and he had more game then people give him credit for.  I just don't know if he could handle the ball or defend enough for the early 2000 Lakers.  But I wish he was 26 right now and could sign with those 2.  I wanna know what Kev would think about that Big 3.  He would be in heaven. 

He hates Ray Allen. Switch Ray with Kyle Korver.

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by CP1708

What's funny is earlier today I was thinkin it would be nice to have Ray Allen in his prime right now, could you imagine CP3, Dwight, Ray as a big 3? 

 

Look at that again, Paul, Ray, and Dwight.  Get 2 decent defending forwards, and it would be straight abuse.  Paul havin options for both inside and outside. 

Ray might be one of my favorite non Lakers of all time.  The guy can shoot like a mad man, and he had more game then people give him credit for.  I just don't know if he could handle the ball or defend enough for the early 2000 Lakers.  But I wish he was 26 right now and could sign with those 2.  I wanna know what Kev would think about that Big 3.  He would be in heaven. 

He hates Ray Allen. Switch Ray with Kyle Korver.