Malcolm X thread.

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Anton has a point. No one on the other side will let anything he says go yet they will freely let people disgrace MLK's name by quoting some Tupac lyric. It's a shame

That should be heavily denounced.

Foolishness

Stokely Carmicheal used to call King, "de lawd".  In some circles, many felt that King got too much exposure, and credit, for the perceived successes of the struggle. I agree with that, as I've stated, King did his share, as Malcolm provided the fear, stimulating the Black youth, which in part helped to create the Black panther movement, SNIC, then Thurgood went after the law.

All were relevant.
  

King had the image, which was important.  Like it or not, it's easier to get support when you have someone with a squeaky clean image than someone who used to run numbers, went to jail, and also made comments such as "the chickens coming home to roost".

Just like Rosa Parks had the clean image and she gets alot of credit although she wasn't the first to refuse to give up her seat on a bus. 



  

so i guess  you presume MLK's background was squeeky clean. He didn't cheat on his wife or nothing huh?
Church boys can fool you just like those church girls.

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove"



  

Ezactly. That's why our justice system is broken and you can get away with murder 

F*&( that ideal because that is exactly what is wrong with the world. People believing in a God and karma yet hide behind that lame duck excuse. I commend pac for living wide open for us to see what's real. 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by torgriffith

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Anton has a point. No one on the other side will let anything he says go yet they will freely let people disgrace MLK's name by quoting some Tupac lyric. It's a shame

That should be heavily denounced.

Foolishness

Stokely Carmicheal used to call King, "de lawd".  In some circles, many felt that King got too much exposure, and credit, for the perceived successes of the struggle. I agree with that, as I've stated, King did his share, as Malcolm provided the fear, stimulating the Black youth, which in part helped to create the Black panther movement, SNIC, then Thurgood went after the law.

All were relevant.
  

King had the image, which was important.  Like it or not, it's easier to get support when you have someone with a squeaky clean image than someone who used to run numbers, went to jail, and also made comments such as "the chickens coming home to roost".

Just like Rosa Parks had the clean image and she gets alot of credit although she wasn't the first to refuse to give up her seat on a bus. 



  

so i guess  you presume MLK's background was squeeky clean. He didn't cheat on his wife or nothing huh?
Church boys can fool you just like those church girls.

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove"



  

Ezactly. That's why our justice system is broken and you can get away with murder 

F*&( that ideal because that is exactly what is wrong with the world. People believing in a God and karma yet hide behind that lame duck excuse. I commend pac for living wide open for us to see what's real. 

 

[Betonblck]

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by cguy610

torgriffith wrote:

---

bijald0331 wrote:

---

Anton has a point. No one on the other side will let anything he says go yet they will freely let people disgrace MLK's name by quoting some Tupac lyric. It's a shame

That should be heavily denounced.

  Looking back on history in the future, IMO I believe pac will be praised more than mlk.
This is the most idiotic thing I have read on NT, since TBone said that the KKK was a civil rights group. 

  
Are you aware of Pac's philanthropic work? Have heard any of his lectures? Pac already is idolized more than MLK. Look at rap music. People are still paying dude homage for the gangsta rap image he portrayed. Now he has been brought back to the forefront of rap music with "Illuminati" just now getting word/air play. (Killuminati). Pac's testament is very close Malcom X. You gotta look at the man's life objectively as well past the image the entertainment industrial complex intoxicated the world with and see him as a human rather than whatever u believed of him from your media outlet as a child. Even Flava Flave said don't believe the hype.
What I'm getting at is that there is a high dollar price on the image of a foolish black man. These dudes get there money and deal with reality while we back here arguing over their old and long gone images that were captured by the media establishment and broadcast over and over to the point were we stuck in the past over some images that were planned and executed to make $.  



This is ludicrous.  I'm astounded that you are actually serious.  I don't even know where to start so I'm just gonna leave this alone. 

 

[Betonblck]

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by cguy610

torgriffith wrote:

---

bijald0331 wrote:

---

Anton has a point. No one on the other side will let anything he says go yet they will freely let people disgrace MLK's name by quoting some Tupac lyric. It's a shame

That should be heavily denounced.

  Looking back on history in the future, IMO I believe pac will be praised more than mlk.
This is the most idiotic thing I have read on NT, since TBone said that the KKK was a civil rights group. 

  
Are you aware of Pac's philanthropic work? Have heard any of his lectures? Pac already is idolized more than MLK. Look at rap music. People are still paying dude homage for the gangsta rap image he portrayed. Now he has been brought back to the forefront of rap music with "Illuminati" just now getting word/air play. (Killuminati). Pac's testament is very close Malcom X. You gotta look at the man's life objectively as well past the image the entertainment industrial complex intoxicated the world with and see him as a human rather than whatever u believed of him from your media outlet as a child. Even Flava Flave said don't believe the hype.
What I'm getting at is that there is a high dollar price on the image of a foolish black man. These dudes get there money and deal with reality while we back here arguing over their old and long gone images that were captured by the media establishment and broadcast over and over to the point were we stuck in the past over some images that were planned and executed to make $.  



This is ludicrous.  I'm astounded that you are actually serious.  I don't even know where to start so I'm just gonna leave this alone. 

 

[torgriffith]

^don't be astounded by what I say. Just go and find your own truth to your own answers like I have and everyone else does. It's the way of life. We just here debating dude.

 

[torgriffith]

^don't be astounded by what I say. Just go and find your own truth to your own answers like I have and everyone else does. It's the way of life. We just here debating dude.

 

[antonlavey]

Reads comments about Tupac (who I love bdw but come on son) and NatTurner's comments.

 

[antonlavey]

Reads comments about Tupac (who I love bdw but come on son) and NatTurner's comments.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

I just can't put Malcolm on the same pedestal as Martin and Thurgood when Malcolm admits his 12 years in NOI was a mistake. Again, all of that I see with Malcolm is bombastic rhetoric with little effects on realities.

I don't think fear of violent blacks caused the progress. "Cold War Civil Rights" by Dudziak shows that the US Govt was afraid of their perceptions abroad in regards to race relations. By not showing compassion to the movement and denouncing the hateful acts of racists, it could have furthered the agenda of enemies abroad (mainly the USSR). So it's not fearing the violent acts of blacks, it's the fear of the perception that people were not being treated "civilly" in a democracy. By continuing the policy of non-violence, MLK fed the news cycle with events such as sit-downs and marches that demonstrated images of black people being treated like crap. The impact of the water hose' and dog' pictures and videos and the subsequent transmission to the rest of the world cannot be understated

 an intelligent post in this thread.

Civil rights became a foreign policy threat. Only when the U.S. saw the repercussions of their actions to Russia, and other world powers did change really occur.

But let us not simplify the World Wide appeal of X. Who himself spoke at Oxford on institutionalized racism- a concept he understood like no other human being of his time. X learned that everything that blacks recieved- AA, Brown V Board, ect...had underlying consequences. Those of you who discount X simply because of his alliance to the Nation are being hypocritical if you ask me. Without the nation Malcolm does NOTHING, and we certainly aren't talking about him 40 years later on NT. If anything blame his loyalty-not his decision to join the nation.



     

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

I just can't put Malcolm on the same pedestal as Martin and Thurgood when Malcolm admits his 12 years in NOI was a mistake. Again, all of that I see with Malcolm is bombastic rhetoric with little effects on realities.

I don't think fear of violent blacks caused the progress. "Cold War Civil Rights" by Dudziak shows that the US Govt was afraid of their perceptions abroad in regards to race relations. By not showing compassion to the movement and denouncing the hateful acts of racists, it could have furthered the agenda of enemies abroad (mainly the USSR). So it's not fearing the violent acts of blacks, it's the fear of the perception that people were not being treated "civilly" in a democracy. By continuing the policy of non-violence, MLK fed the news cycle with events such as sit-downs and marches that demonstrated images of black people being treated like crap. The impact of the water hose' and dog' pictures and videos and the subsequent transmission to the rest of the world cannot be understated

 an intelligent post in this thread.

Civil rights became a foreign policy threat. Only when the U.S. saw the repercussions of their actions to Russia, and other world powers did change really occur.

But let us not simplify the World Wide appeal of X. Who himself spoke at Oxford on institutionalized racism- a concept he understood like no other human being of his time. X learned that everything that blacks recieved- AA, Brown V Board, ect...had underlying consequences. Those of you who discount X simply because of his alliance to the Nation are being hypocritical if you ask me. Without the nation Malcolm does NOTHING, and we certainly aren't talking about him 40 years later on NT. If anything blame his loyalty-not his decision to join the nation.



     

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

Originally Posted by cguy610

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by cguy610

torgriffith wrote:

---

bijald0331 wrote:

---

Anton has a point. No one on the other side will let anything he says go yet they will freely let people disgrace MLK's name by quoting some Tupac lyric. It's a shame

That should be heavily denounced.

  Looking back on history in the future, IMO I believe pac will be praised more than mlk.

This is the most idiotic thing I have read on NT, since TBone said that the KKK was a civil rights group. 

  
Are you aware of Pac's philanthropic work? Have heard any of his lectures? Pac already is idolized more than MLK. Look at rap music. People are still paying dude homage for the gangsta rap image he portrayed. Now he has been brought back to the forefront of rap music with "Illuminati" just now getting word/air play. (Killuminati). Pac's testament is very close Malcom X. You gotta look at the man's life objectively as well past the image the entertainment industrial complex intoxicated the world with and see him as a human rather than whatever u believed of him from your media outlet as a child. Even Flava Flave said don't believe the hype.
What I'm getting at is that there is a high dollar price on the image of a foolish black man. These dudes get there money and deal with reality while we back here arguing over their old and long gone images that were captured by the media establishment and broadcast over and over to the point were we stuck in the past over some images that were planned and executed to make $.  



This is ludicrous.  I'm astounded that you are actually serious.  I don't even know where to start so I'm just gonna leave this alone. 

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

Originally Posted by cguy610

torgriffith wrote:

---

Originally Posted by cguy610

torgriffith wrote:

---

bijald0331 wrote:

---

Anton has a point. No one on the other side will let anything he says go yet they will freely let people disgrace MLK's name by quoting some Tupac lyric. It's a shame

That should be heavily denounced.

  Looking back on history in the future, IMO I believe pac will be praised more than mlk.

This is the most idiotic thing I have read on NT, since TBone said that the KKK was a civil rights group. 

  
Are you aware of Pac's philanthropic work? Have heard any of his lectures? Pac already is idolized more than MLK. Look at rap music. People are still paying dude homage for the gangsta rap image he portrayed. Now he has been brought back to the forefront of rap music with "Illuminati" just now getting word/air play. (Killuminati). Pac's testament is very close Malcom X. You gotta look at the man's life objectively as well past the image the entertainment industrial complex intoxicated the world with and see him as a human rather than whatever u believed of him from your media outlet as a child. Even Flava Flave said don't believe the hype.
What I'm getting at is that there is a high dollar price on the image of a foolish black man. These dudes get there money and deal with reality while we back here arguing over their old and long gone images that were captured by the media establishment and broadcast over and over to the point were we stuck in the past over some images that were planned and executed to make $.  



This is ludicrous.  I'm astounded that you are actually serious.  I don't even know where to start so I'm just gonna leave this alone. 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by bijald0331

I just can't put Malcolm on the same pedestal as Martin and Thurgood when Malcolm admits his 12 years in NOI was a mistake. Again, all of that I see with Malcolm is bombastic rhetoric with little effects on realities.

I don't think fear of violent blacks caused the progress. "Cold War Civil Rights" by Dudziak shows that the US Govt was afraid of their perceptions abroad in regards to race relations. By not showing compassion to the movement and denouncing the hateful acts of racists, it could have furthered the agenda of enemies abroad (mainly the USSR). So it's not fearing the violent acts of blacks, it's the fear of the perception that people were not being treated "civilly" in a democracy. By continuing the policy of non-violence, MLK fed the news cycle with events such as sit-downs and marches that demonstrated images of black people being treated like crap. The impact of the water hose' and dog' pictures and videos and the subsequent transmission to the rest of the world cannot be understated

 an intelligent post in this thread.

Civil rights became a foreign policy threat. Only when the U.S. saw the repercussions of their actions to Russia, and other world powers did change really occur.

But let us not simplify the World Wide appeal of X. Who himself spoke at Oxford on institutionalized racism- a concept he understood like no other human being of his time. X learned that everything that blacks recieved- AA, Brown V Board, ect...had underlying consequences. Those of you who discount X simply because of his alliance to the Nation are being hypocritical if you ask me. Without the nation Malcolm does NOTHING, and we certainly aren't talking about him 40 years later on NT. If anything blame his loyalty-not his decision to join the nation.



     

I said the exact same ting earlier and was criticized for it. MLK did use the people as casualties of a media war he was waging. He was marching people towards their death in hopes that someone would see it and act on it by doing the right thing when confronted on the world stage. But the battle on racism isn't exclusive to America like someone who hadn't traveled abroad yet would not necessarily notice. 
Now let me ask you this. 

Given the platform to seek racial harmony (not equality), would you rather ;

A- Be used as a body to show inflicted brutality for evidence/example on a world stage.

B- Scholarly research and debate about history and truth.

Which sacrifice would you rather make?

Those are the differences between each others approach.

And for all ya'll hating on what i had to say about 2pac, stop being a fan and see him for who he really was. Shoot, even start some type of dialogue. Why you wanna leave it at smart witty comments that sound like you're logically leaving a crazy man to himself, yet not provide any way for anybody reading. participating, browsing through this thread with any substantive commentary. Ya'll giving up to easy... 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by bijald0331

I just can't put Malcolm on the same pedestal as Martin and Thurgood when Malcolm admits his 12 years in NOI was a mistake. Again, all of that I see with Malcolm is bombastic rhetoric with little effects on realities.

I don't think fear of violent blacks caused the progress. "Cold War Civil Rights" by Dudziak shows that the US Govt was afraid of their perceptions abroad in regards to race relations. By not showing compassion to the movement and denouncing the hateful acts of racists, it could have furthered the agenda of enemies abroad (mainly the USSR). So it's not fearing the violent acts of blacks, it's the fear of the perception that people were not being treated "civilly" in a democracy. By continuing the policy of non-violence, MLK fed the news cycle with events such as sit-downs and marches that demonstrated images of black people being treated like crap. The impact of the water hose' and dog' pictures and videos and the subsequent transmission to the rest of the world cannot be understated

 an intelligent post in this thread.

Civil rights became a foreign policy threat. Only when the U.S. saw the repercussions of their actions to Russia, and other world powers did change really occur.

But let us not simplify the World Wide appeal of X. Who himself spoke at Oxford on institutionalized racism- a concept he understood like no other human being of his time. X learned that everything that blacks recieved- AA, Brown V Board, ect...had underlying consequences. Those of you who discount X simply because of his alliance to the Nation are being hypocritical if you ask me. Without the nation Malcolm does NOTHING, and we certainly aren't talking about him 40 years later on NT. If anything blame his loyalty-not his decision to join the nation.



     

I said the exact same ting earlier and was criticized for it. MLK did use the people as casualties of a media war he was waging. He was marching people towards their death in hopes that someone would see it and act on it by doing the right thing when confronted on the world stage. But the battle on racism isn't exclusive to America like someone who hadn't traveled abroad yet would not necessarily notice. 
Now let me ask you this. 

Given the platform to seek racial harmony (not equality), would you rather ;

A- Be used as a body to show inflicted brutality for evidence/example on a world stage.

B- Scholarly research and debate about history and truth.

Which sacrifice would you rather make?

Those are the differences between each others approach.

And for all ya'll hating on what i had to say about 2pac, stop being a fan and see him for who he really was. Shoot, even start some type of dialogue. Why you wanna leave it at smart witty comments that sound like you're logically leaving a crazy man to himself, yet not provide any way for anybody reading. participating, browsing through this thread with any substantive commentary. Ya'll giving up to easy... 

 

[canifly34]

Originally Posted by got shoes

Malcolm X>>>>Martin Luther King Jr. Real talk. No hate on MLK though

This.
Being a Muslim he caught my eye in a big way. Very inspiring
  

 

[canifly34]

Originally Posted by got shoes

Malcolm X>>>>Martin Luther King Jr. Real talk. No hate on MLK though

This.
Being a Muslim he caught my eye in a big way. Very inspiring
  

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Reads comments about Tupac (who I love bdw but come on son) and NatTurner's comments.

If you weren't an african american in the hood areas of america when pac first came out and you did not witness what happened first hand to the people, then you cannot relate like I.  end of tupac bashing discussion. Ya'll are really discrediting dude as an artist the way ya'll got him locked into some small little category of entertaining yall's thug fantasy lifestyle and don't understand the full weight of his work. Do you have any idea how profound Dear Momma was? 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Reads comments about Tupac (who I love bdw but come on son) and NatTurner's comments.

If you weren't an african american in the hood areas of america when pac first came out and you did not witness what happened first hand to the people, then you cannot relate like I.  end of tupac bashing discussion. Ya'll are really discrediting dude as an artist the way ya'll got him locked into some small little category of entertaining yall's thug fantasy lifestyle and don't understand the full weight of his work. Do you have any idea how profound Dear Momma was? 

 

[kix4kix]

Make no mistake- MLK offered far more than his body- IMO one of the greatest speakers of all time.

I wouldn't describe their approaches as dichotomous as some of you claim. Both men are actually quite similar if you ask me.

Also- comparing the leader of the greatest civil rights movement to a rapper from Oakland is a stretch no matter how you put it. Sure Bono, Pac, and even MJ have done countless things for millions of people with their voices and even their money/time. But to compare them to King-who himself moved the world with his words and anti-war sentiments- which IMO were as dangerous as his civil rights leadership. People must realize the movement was not MLK, Malcolm X, or Thurgood,-the movement consisted of several organizations- SNCC, SCLC, NAACP, and thousands of people. Black women, and alot of white people went all but unnoticed in the struggle, when for the most part they were often the leaders themselves.

 

[kix4kix]

Make no mistake- MLK offered far more than his body- IMO one of the greatest speakers of all time.

I wouldn't describe their approaches as dichotomous as some of you claim. Both men are actually quite similar if you ask me.

Also- comparing the leader of the greatest civil rights movement to a rapper from Oakland is a stretch no matter how you put it. Sure Bono, Pac, and even MJ have done countless things for millions of people with their voices and even their money/time. But to compare them to King-who himself moved the world with his words and anti-war sentiments- which IMO were as dangerous as his civil rights leadership. People must realize the movement was not MLK, Malcolm X, or Thurgood,-the movement consisted of several organizations- SNCC, SCLC, NAACP, and thousands of people. Black women, and alot of white people went all but unnoticed in the struggle, when for the most part they were often the leaders themselves.

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Make no mistake- MLK offered far more than his body- IMO one of the greatest speakers of all time.

I wouldn't describe their approaches as dichotomous as some of you claim. Both men are actually quite similar if you ask me.

Also- comparing the leader of the greatest civil rights movement to a rapper from Oakland is a stretch no matter how you put it. Sure Bono, Pac, and even MJ have done countless things for millions of people with their voices and even their money/time. But to compare them to King-who himself moved the world with his words and anti-war sentiments- which IMO were as dangerous as his civil rights leadership. People must realize the movement was not MLK, Malcolm X, or Thurgood,-the movement consisted of several organizations- SNCC, SCLC, NAACP, and thousands of people. Black women, and alot of white people went all but unnoticed in the struggle, when for the most part they were often the leaders themselves.

And this is the CEO/President of the NAACP
Benjamin Todd Jealous

See what I'm saying...

These organizations are joke bruh. Lip service and eye candy. I mean how many black tie dinners and jet magazine follow ups does it take to advance colored people?
 And every single last one of the people u mentioned have "moved" people with their words. Just admit that you will exclude Pac because he is a hip hop artist and we all know the bad rep rap has. Just admit it.  I guarantee you people on average hear more Tupac lyrics than MLK lyrics on the norm. So whose words are reverberating more? 

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Make no mistake- MLK offered far more than his body- IMO one of the greatest speakers of all time.

I wouldn't describe their approaches as dichotomous as some of you claim. Both men are actually quite similar if you ask me.

Also- comparing the leader of the greatest civil rights movement to a rapper from Oakland is a stretch no matter how you put it. Sure Bono, Pac, and even MJ have done countless things for millions of people with their voices and even their money/time. But to compare them to King-who himself moved the world with his words and anti-war sentiments- which IMO were as dangerous as his civil rights leadership. People must realize the movement was not MLK, Malcolm X, or Thurgood,-the movement consisted of several organizations- SNCC, SCLC, NAACP, and thousands of people. Black women, and alot of white people went all but unnoticed in the struggle, when for the most part they were often the leaders themselves.

And this is the CEO/President of the NAACP
Benjamin Todd Jealous

See what I'm saying...

These organizations are joke bruh. Lip service and eye candy. I mean how many black tie dinners and jet magazine follow ups does it take to advance colored people?
 And every single last one of the people u mentioned have "moved" people with their words. Just admit that you will exclude Pac because he is a hip hop artist and we all know the bad rep rap has. Just admit it.  I guarantee you people on average hear more Tupac lyrics than MLK lyrics on the norm. So whose words are reverberating more? 

 

[shaunhillftw49]

damn light skinned people

 

[shaunhillftw49]

damn light skinned people

 

[gambit215]

Originally Posted by torgriffith

 Do you have any idea how profound Dear Momma was? 

Stop it, any fan of Pac knows he didnt even WRITE Dear Mama.... and yo stop with the ignorance...no ENTERTAINER will have a profound impact on society the way MLK changed the planet..............Ill say this again and again till some of you guys get it. I was 13 when Pac died and I can tell you he was NOT LIKED AT ALL as far as the east coast is concerned, Afeni and Interscope did a tremendous job of rebuilding this mans character cuz Lord knows he did a hell of a job putting in the toilet. The last image of  Pac being alive is stomping out a crip....If he goes down in history as a bigger figure than MLK than we are really doomed.......... I dont know about some of you sometimes..........

As far as the discussion at hand, I for one was not alive in the 60's and Im 99 % sure none of you were either. So the way you guys speak about X like you guys were there is astounding. I'm pretty sure the mid 60's X had a following...................and it caused a stir, but to say he had as much impact as MLK is downright ignorant.