IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[CP1708]

Well that's 5 so Kobe is at 6 but continue

Dude thinks he's doing it cuz he has 5 guys Kobe can't match.

Cuz being #6, #7, #8, #9, #10 or whatever other number he wants to make up all time is overrated.

 

[CP1708]

just to keep this thread moving along, i think you should make the case.

Make the case, I absolutely can not wait to read it.

For the record, I never said Pau Should've won the MVP. I said there was a case for Pau being FMVP. Here is A CASE


19 points per game

11.5 rebounds per game (led LA)

26 assists, 13 turnovers

2.5 blocks fer game (led LA)

48% from the field (led LA)


Kobe averaged more points (29) but he shot just 40% from the field. He had 27 total assists (1 more than Gasol) while being the primary ball handler. He also had 27 turnovers. Yes, same # of turnovers as assists, and more than double the amount of Gasols.


Again, this is just a Case.


But I'll wait for yall to call me a "Hater" because I presented some numbers, left out opinions.

No hate at all man, glad you made the case. Now, please look at Pau's per game numbers, and place them with the past 40 FMVP's in history. (note, I have done the legwork, I know the answers, but please, I want you to see it)

Pau's numbers, while nice, DO NOT match up with about 36-37 of the previous MVP's. Some of the ones they do match with, Magic in 1980 who won because of his game 6, when Kareem was injured. Maxwell in 81 I believe and one of Magic's which he averaged nearly a triple double a game, but less than 20 points per game. (if I remember that right) Then throw in Billups from 04.

Every single other MVP was the leading scorer, close to 26-27-28 PPG, + whatever other stats in the series. All of them. RARELY was there ever a guy that didn't lead his team that won MVP, and ZERO that were close to 30 a night. Kareem would count in 1980, but he missed the clinching game when Magic sealed it with a historic performance. Pau was not historic in game 7, and Kobe did not miss that game, he just missed a lot of shots. He still lead the team in points, had 15 boards, the key assist to Artest (much like MJ to Kerr or Pax) and he had the most 4th quarter points as well. Kareem is the MVP in 1980 if he plays game 6 and they win, then there would be one less historical precedent for someone to point to.

No hate tho, thank you for at least making a case and not switching your argument 15 different ways like cartunes.

 

[Jordan8]

Dude, you are one of the least brightest people on this board.

AG GAVE YOU THE STATS WITH MVP, TITLES, ETC.

I ADDED the numbers?


How the **** are you not getting this?

Do you understand yet? AG gave you the first set, I followed up with the rest? Can you comprehend?

Now, since you aren't smart. Kobe is going to be the ONLY 30K, 6K, 6K player in history after his next 100 assists or so. (Bron will join in a couple years surely) Playoff wise, he is only the second ALL TIME in playoff history with 5K points, 1K rebounds, and 1K assists. He, and Michael Jordan. (Bron will surely join them in a few years)

That "only 1 top 10" category you mention will be top 3, all time. And his rebound totals will be top 5 for his position, as well as assists. He will be in top 5 ALL TIME in rebounds and assists for a shooting guard, a position that does not amass those totals easily, he will be among the leaders in EACH category, while leading the position in scoring all time. And those guys that have 20K and 10K while impressive, still won't have the numbers he has PLUS the titles, plus the Finals MVP, PLUS the PLAYOFF NUMBERS\ he will have put up, PLUS THE ALL NBA SEASONS.

Again, JUST the numbers, as YOU said.

Do you grasp this all now?


You call us a cult, we can't figure out why you people can't ******g read or change your argument EVERY WAY IMAGINABLE.

So you call me dumb, curse at me and im not even snitching so I hope you dont get hit or nothing but Im just pointing out the cult like atmosphere

But yea handle ya emotions b..:this is just a sports debate...this **** happens all the time outside the internet..

And pardon me for ANSWERING you and then just assuming you was responding directly to me...my bad

To ya points. I ignored the playoff categories for a reason. You cant compare that to other players who had to play on the teams they were actually drafted by and didnt have the playoff runs Kobe had with a 7 footer at all times...but i digress

You keep saying HE WILL BE. How you know tho? Are you projecting another season like this one the rest of his career? He's already played more years than most of the players ahead of him in those categories...So if he's top 5..."WHY ISNT HE"?

Top 5 at his position is cool. Congrats I've already said he's my 2nd best SG. But we talking all time greats at every position I thought. And someone who shoots as much as Kobe for 18-20 years I WOULD HOPE attains the most points in NBA history...

 

[mjgreatxii]

:x

 

[Jordan8]

Well that's 5 so Kobe is at 6 but continue

Wait, I thought Kobe was top 5 and 2nd to Jordan...we keep moving the invisible line when the numbers come out

 

[CP1708]

Well that's 5 so Kobe is at 6 but continue

Wait, I thought Kobe was top 5 and 2nd to Jordan...we keep moving the invisible line when the numbers come out

YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU keep saying top 5.

The people in here talking to you ARE NOT. AG, myself, XL, none of us have said that.

You have to be trolling. I got caught, you catfished me, you just bein dumb and I fell for it. ****.

 

[CP1708]

Dude, you are one of the least brightest people on this board.

AG GAVE YOU THE STATS WITH MVP, TITLES, ETC.

I ADDED the numbers?


How the **** are you not getting this?

Do you understand yet? AG gave you the first set, I followed up with the rest? Can you comprehend?

Now, since you aren't smart. Kobe is going to be the ONLY 30K, 6K, 6K player in history after his next 100 assists or so. (Bron will join in a couple years surely) Playoff wise, he is only the second ALL TIME in playoff history with 5K points, 1K rebounds, and 1K assists. He, and Michael Jordan. (Bron will surely join them in a few years)

That "only 1 top 10" category you mention will be top 3, all time. And his rebound totals will be top 5 for his position, as well as assists. He will be in top 5 ALL TIME in rebounds and assists for a shooting guard, a position that does not amass those totals easily, he will be among the leaders in EACH category, while leading the position in scoring all time. And those guys that have 20K and 10K while impressive, still won't have the numbers he has PLUS the titles, plus the Finals MVP, PLUS the PLAYOFF NUMBERS\ he will have put up, PLUS THE ALL NBA SEASONS.

Again, JUST the numbers, as YOU said.

Do you grasp this all now?


You call us a cult, we can't figure out why you people can't ******g read or change your argument EVERY WAY IMAGINABLE.

So you call me dumb, curse at me and im not even snitching so I hope you dont get hit or nothing but Im just pointing out the cult like atmosphere

But yea handle ya emotions b..:this is just a sports debate...this **** happens all the time outside the internet..

And pardon me for ANSWERING you and then just assuming you was responding directly to me...my bad

To ya points. I ignored the playoff categories for a reason. You cant compare that to other players who had to play on the teams they were actually drafted by and didnt have the playoff runs Kobe had with a 7 footer at all times...but i digress

You keep saying HE WILL BE. How you know tho? Are you projecting another season like this one the rest of his career? He's already played more years than most of the players ahead of him in those categories...So if he's top 5..."WHY ISNT HE"?

Top 5 at his position is cool. Congrats I've already said he's my 2nd best SG. But we talking all time greats at every position I thought. And someone who shoots as much as Kobe for 18-20 years I WOULD HOPE attains the most points in NBA history...

Ok, dry your eyes bruh. I didn't call you dumb, I said you the least brightest. Big diff. I don't see any swearing, I only see ***** same as you just typed, so like I said, here's a tissue.

You clearly dont get it. You catfished me, I fell for it. My mistake.

When I say WILL BE, as I did with Lebron, saying WILL BE, it's because I don't have the numbers in my face. Off the top, I already KNOW Kobe is top 3-4 assists at SG. When he's done, ONE year (Bron needs about 4 I gave him credit for, Kobe only needs one, are you complaining about me granting Bron numbers? No) After just one more "Kobe" season, he will be #1 in assists. Rebounds I don't have, but I knoe he is close to passing MJ within a few games (again, not sure the actual factual number)
So my point is, was, and still remains, when he is done, he WILL BE atop the position in damn near everything points/rebounds/assists. Having played (you ready for this) 15-16 ALL NBA caliber seasons, first team, second team, All Star, TOP 5 MVP voting, seasons. 15-16. Not 8, not 10, not 6, 15 or 16. (depending on how he does next year, rest of this year, etc)

YOU, knock that, the majority of folk, do not. Stockton leads in assists, played a million years, you complaining? Kareem, most points, million years, you complaining?

Oh but Kobe played alot. Oh.


He is a TOP 10 ALL TIME NBA player. YOU keep saying 5, those of us arguing you are not saying that. Just cuz one Laker/Kobe troll says Kobe >>>>>>>>MJ means we all say that.

Top 10. You might want to say 12. Others 15. That's fine. They can list their reason, lists, etc, we can go over that, no prob. But those saying top 20, 25, 50 whatever, those folks are the same as the Kobe idiots that say Kobe >>>>>>>>MJ.

 

[Jordan8]

Yo just say you don't have a point... Dude u just skipping across debates. Plenty people have said he's top 5...top 10....saying hes second to Jordan...I thought Jordan is top 5? Saying he's the best Laker ever.... When Magic and maybe Kareem are top 5 players... U EVER HEARD OF DEDUCTIVE REASONING B

 

[domogotsole]

Kobe is starting tonight according to rumor so hard to put this man down and I'm not a fan. Count on Kobe.

 

[CP1708]

Yo just say you don't have a point... Dude u just skipping across debates. Plenty people have said he's top 5...top 10....saying hes second to Jordan...I thought Jordan is top 5? Saying he's the best Laker ever.... When Magic and maybe Kareem are top 5 players... U EVER HEARD OF DEDUCTIVE REASONING B

Read slow.

Second to MJ at SG is one thing.

Factor in Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, whoever else backs him out of the top 5.

#2 SG does NOT = #2 overall.

We good here?

As for GLOAT, Kareem has plenty of career NOT on the Lakers? You with me? So Kareem can top Kobe ALL TIME, and still be behind him ALL TIME LAKER. You good? With me here man? Deductive reasoning working for you still?

As for Magic, it's debated back and forth by Laker fans. Some Kobe, some Magic. Depends who you ask. Totals wise, it's easy, Kobe been around long. Year by year wise, it could be Magic, his career was tragically cut short. He didn't get his last 4-5 glory years like what Kobe is in right now.

You with me still? Same page now? Or you going to switch up on me again?

 

[CP1708]

How did Kareem AND Magic accomplish more AS Lakers?

Magic has an argument, Kareem doesn't really, as a Laker. You do know he played a few years for the Bucks, right?

I have Kobe somewhere 5-8.

As a Laker, he's either 1A or 1B with Magic.

 

[nako xl]

just to keep this thread moving along, i think you should make the case.

Make the case, I absolutely can not wait to read it.

For the record, I never said Pau Should've won the MVP. I said there was a case for Pau being FMVP. Here is A CASE


19 points per game

11.5 rebounds per game (led LA)

26 assists, 13 turnovers

2.5 blocks fer game (led LA)

48% from the field (led LA)


Kobe averaged more points (29) but he shot just 40% from the field. He had 27 total assists (1 more than Gasol) while being the primary ball handler. He also had 27 turnovers. Yes, same # of turnovers as assists, and more than double the amount of Gasols.


Again, this is just a Case.


But I'll wait for yall to call me a "Hater" because I presented some numbers, left out opinions.

Ok.

You rounded Pau's numbers up while rounding Kobe's down.  I see what you did there. (p.s. 48% if dramatically more impressive than 41% when you average 10 points less a game?  Oh.  I didn't realize.)

And even then, you still probably shouldn't have bothered making the "case".

Also you mention Kobe having only one more assist while being the primary ball handler.

Why didn't you mention Pau only averaging 3 1/2 more rebounds while Kobe is a guard and was the primary perimeter defender?

You weren't hating or trying to slant the stats though.  Right.

 

[mertonhanks]

Ok.

You rounded Pau's numbers up while rounding Kobe's down.  I see what you did there. (p.s. 48% if dramatically more impressive than 41% when you average 10 points less a game?  Oh.  I didn't realize.)

And even then, you still probably shouldn't have bothered making the "case".

Also you mention Kobe having only one more assist while being the primary ball handler.

Why didn't you mention Pau only averaging 3 1/2 more rebounds while Kobe is a guard and was the primary perimeter defender?

You weren't hating or trying to slant the stats though.  Right.

I got my stats from a webpage, Kobes ppg was also rounded up. If I was going to round up I wouldve rounded Pau to 12 rebounds a game or his blocks to 3 a game. If it offended you that much, I apologize. I didnt realize rounding .06 is the equivalent to having a case and not having a case.

And 48% is drastic when the team only shot 40% combined from the field.

Why would I mention Kobe deing the primary perimeter defender? Thats a Case for Kobes FMVP, which he won.

You wanted to see how Pau had A Case for FMVP, not Kobe.

You might not be a Laker fan but its clear you are a Kobe Stan.

But im done, I put out a Case, and a Case only.

 

[nako xl]

Ok.

You rounded Pau's numbers up while rounding Kobe's down.  I see what you did there. (p.s. 48% if dramatically more impressive than 41% when you average 10 points less a game?  Oh.  I didn't realize.)

And even then, you still probably shouldn't have bothered making the "case".

Also you mention Kobe having only one more assist while being the primary ball handler.

Why didn't you mention Pau only averaging 3 1/2 more rebounds while Kobe is a guard and was the primary perimeter defender?

You weren't hating or trying to slant the stats though.  Right.

I got my stats from a webpage, Kobes ppg was also rounded up. If I was going to round up I wouldve rounded Pau to 12 rebounds a game or his blocks to 3 a game. If it offended you that much, I apologize. I didnt realize rounding .06 is the equivalent to having a case and not having a case.

And 48% is drastic when the team only shot 40% combined from the field.

Why would I mention Kobe deing the primary perimeter defender? Thats a Case for Kobes FMVP, which he won.

You wanted to see how Pau had A Case for FMVP, not Kobe.

You might not be a Laker fan but its clear you are a Kobe Stan.

But im done, I put out a Case, and a Case only.

You chose to acknowledge some of Pau's stats as rounded up.  Then rounded Kobe's stats down.  Whether you did that or the site you chose to cite did that, it was done.  When you're making an argument for one player over the other, an oversight like that stands out.

You mentioned Kobe ONLY having one more assist a game than Pau, even though Kobe is the chief ball handler.  You mentioned Pau as having 11.5 rebounds a game, but left out that Kobe as the primary perimeter defender, spent most of his time on the perimeter. And STILL had just 3.5 rebounds a game less than Pau.  You also left out that while Pau (who "saved Kobe" in game 7, by your own words had 18 rebounds, Kobe had 15.  and STILL outscored Pau.) When you're making an argument for one player over the other, an oversight like that stands out.

48% is drastic when the team only shot 40% as a whole, yet it's embarrassing that Kobe only shot 41%?  But you didn't emphasize that he shot 41% while averaging 10 points MORE than Pau a game.  Right.  The FG% is a strong case for Pau, and a knock on Kobe, but the gulf in points per doesn't mean as much. Oh. Ok.

Round up Pau's 3 blocks a game.  But mention Kobe's 1 block a game as a guard, and 2 steals per.

You're "if it offended you so much" and "stan" comments are transparent.  I won't address them.

When you want to play devil's advocate and argue that a case can be made for a player over another, don't back pedal and state that you yourself don't agree with the argument YOU'RE making, then throw jabs at others for not agreeing with the same ******** you're throwing.

 

[mertonhanks]

I'm not even saying Pau shouldve won it.

just to keep this thread moving along, i think you should make the case.

I stated there was a case, but never said Pau shouldve won it.

You then asked me to make the case just to keep the thread moving.

I obliged.

Now I'm backpedaling because I made the case you asked for...

You Win.

 

[nako xl]

Cartune says Pau was robbed of the FMVP.  We're all like "Whaaaaaat???" You agree but change it to "Pau saved the team."

He said Pau saved the Lakers, which he did in game 7. You took it as Kobe "stealing" a finals MVP from Gasol. Taking things personally?

You then continue on that point and state that you can make a case for Pau being MVP

Im not interpreting it in anyway. He said Pau was the x factor, and I agree, he was. And its obvious that Kobe fans dont see it that way. Lakers have gone as far as Paus play since hes arrived in LA. He dissapeared in the first finals against Boston - Boston in 6. Pau balled the next two postseasons (including Boston finals) - Two Ships. Pau doesnt play well the previous two postseasons - 2 second round playoff exits.

He might not be a better player than Kobe, but he is the x factor. And I can make a case for Pau winning that 2010 FMVP but it would just fall on deaf ears. And I'm not even saying Pau shouldve won it.

We ask to see said case.

You begin your next point with the disclaimer "I don't agree with this though!"

Then why argue that Pau saved Kobe?  Why say there's an argument for Pau being the real mvp if you yourself think it's hogwash.

Oh, because I forced your hand. I'm the one who told you to come to cartune's defense.

 

[nako xl]

What's funny is that save 2 or 3 games Pau didn't even stand out in that finals series.

13 and 10 in game 3.  12 and 12 in game 5. 21 and 6 in game 4 where he made 3 baskets the entire second half.

But there's a case to be made that Pau was mvp.  You're right.

 

[acbboyz84]

 

[mertonhanks]

Very first thing I said

Im not saying Gasol shouldve been FMVP.

Cartune says Pau was robbed of the FMVP.  We're all like "Whaaaaaat???" You agree

He definitely wasnt Robbed. But a case can be made that he should've gotten the FMVP.

Or you can point out where I agreed that Pau was robbed of a FMVP if this is not clear enough.

 

[mertonhanks]

But you're right. 18 points 11 boards 4 assists 2 n half blocks while leading your team in FG% should deserve no consideration for the FMVP.

 

[CP1708]

But you're right. 18 points 11 boards 4 assists 2 n half blocks while leading your team in FG% should deserve no consideration for the FMVP.

GO LOOK AT EVERY FINALS MVP EVER. These numbers are not close. Minus maybe 2-3 ever. If that.

 

[nako xl]

then what are you arguing for?  did pau deserve to be mvp or not?

you're quoting stats and arguing one thing then saying but i don't believe that.

what is your point? it's either yes or no.  if no, then what are you arguing about?

 

[mertonhanks]

My God, we're arguing A Case here, straight up Consideration. Winning an award and being considered for an award are not the same thing.

Here, let me use a different example with different players.


Lebron James is the MVP of the 12-13 season (assuming he wins).

There is a Case for Kevin Durant to be the MVP for the 12-13 season.

Im not saying KD should be the MVP, or is he robbed of an MVP but there is a Case for him to win the award.


Can I state the case even if I agreed with Lebron winning the MVP?

 

[nako xl]

I understand. 

Let me try to clarify my annoyance: 

It's one thing to say the argument exists, and to make it for the sake of playign devil's advocate, but what YOU are doing is making an argument and taking shots at us for disagreeing with it while also stating that you yourself disagree with it. 

You're altering stats for the benefit of the argument you don't agree with, using slanted wording for that same reason, and throwing personal jabs all at the same time conceding that you think what you're saying is wrong?

 

[nako xl]

cartune said pau was robbed. you seemingly agreed. i was like whoa. you then turned that to "i agree that pau saved the lakers (and presumably kobe since we're in this thread.)" i was like whoa. that then turned into "well, i don't agree but there's an argument to be made."

you're making the argument, calling me a stan for disagreeing with it, while also disagreeing with it yourself.

hence me saying you're backpedaling.

also your case is stupid.