IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

Rajon Rondo: The overrated, justly appreciated new Kobe Bryant
http://hoopspeak.com/2012/06/rajon-rondo-the-overrated-justly-appreciated-new-kobe-bryant/
By Ethan Sherwood Strauss, on June 11th, 2012

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In 2005 and 2006, I watched Kobe Bryant play basketball, but not because I thought he was the world’s best player. Even back then, I believed LeBron’s well rounded attack to be superior. But that’s fodder for an argument and not necessarily why anyone should turn on a television. While we like to debate which players are the most effective at creating wins (this is the tacit meaning of “best,” no?), there is a distance between that conversation and why we’re drawn to basketball.

So, without caring much about Kobe as a win-generating force, my college self loved the Kobe show for what it was. What it was, back then, was a man flinging deep three pointers from angles only known by creepy chiropractors. Bryant had invented a new, thrilling, selfish, hilarious way to play the sport we thought we knew.

The awed internal monologue gasped, “Wait, you can shoot contested fadeaway three pointers with no legal repercussions? Wait, you can shoot uncontested fadeaway three pointers were no legal repercussions?” On a nightly basis, Gunner Kobe took on basketball convention and usually won. That he was pulling this off while being near LeBron in efficiency was perhaps a greater accomplishment than being the most efficient. James was approaching excellence logically; Bryant was brilliantly playing like an idiot.

Winning basketball is often concocted by its most aesthetically pleasing practitioners. We take pleasure in a person’s ability to problem solve on the court, and solving problems leads to victories. But it’s not a perfect correlation, as some effective players languish, unloved in our collective imaginations. Tim Duncan is an obvious choice here. Few were better at being better while making the masses shrug. And sometimes, effective players capture our imaginations and run with them to an extreme degree.

Which brings me to Rajon Rondo, a player whom I’ve spent too much time trying to make sense of. He just exited the best statistical playoffs of his career, but numbers do little justice to the entertainment experience of seeing him produce better numbers.

I was always so fixated on how Rondo’s unique game and big market exposure spawned a Kobe-esque mythology. Bryant’s high point totals made him the platonic Jordan shooting guard ideal–never mind the efficiency. Rondo’s high assist totals made him the platonic point guard ideal–never mind the terrible true shooting percentage and mediocre Boston offensive attack. Bryant’s talented, victorious teams helped rebrand his rudeness as competitive fire. Rondo’s ref-bumping and camera interrogating ways are always viewed through the soft lens of “winner.”

Ultimately, the popularity of these players bothered me at some level because it didn’t seem fair to other players. Why should Kobe Bryant get far more credit for those last two Finals victories than Pau Gasol? Why should Rajon Rondo make a third All Star team when he’s 78th in PER? Why should his jersey be the NBA’s third best seller when Ty Lawson’s scraping Rondo in win shares?

The late Spring has been a reminder of how myopic such thoughts can be if thought too much. Rondo was undeniably compelling during the 2012 playoff tear, so much so that ranking his abilities felt impossible and insufficient. Mr. Nationally Televised Game was, as previously mentioned, a better player in the playoff spotlight. He scored more, rebounded better, and made a chaotic chore out of judging a player who thrives in chaos. It was best to stop thinking and submit to a wildly entertaining run.

Merely enjoying Rajon Rondo meant focusing on the elements that make him so damned unique and compelling. Not only does Rondo thrive in the aforementioned chaos, but he has an ingenious way of creating it. He’ll often stand in one place, throwing fake passes through the air. The defense is more likely to move than the ball is, even if they know to watch for this. Some defenders bite on the fakes, others don’t. The space he opens up isn’t predictable, like a pocket pass avenue in a pick and roll. A faked out defense can be a mish mash of players flying and flailing in overlapping directions. But in the mess, he sees angles that will form a split-second later. Chaos triggers his prescient instincts. Rondo shakes up a snow globe and it becomes his crystal ball.

It’s like he’s invented a new way of playing basketball, as Kobe once did. It resonates with fans, as it damn well should. Does this mean Rondo’s better than say, Kyrie Irving? I don’t know, I just miss watching him in these playoffs.
 
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Second time he used a bleacher report "writer" for "proof" of whatever he thinks Kobe is.


This was in that article
Why should Rajon Rondo make a third All Star team when he’s 78th in PER? Why should his jersey be the NBA’s third best seller when Ty Lawson’s scraping Rondo in win shares?

:lol
 
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Yet Tmac and AI are exciting, but they were much more well known to be selfish players that were hard to root for.
Just sounds like you don't like watching Kobe, which is fine, but don't need to throw him down to Tmac/AI level, who arent even top 50 in the nba, all time.

Wait what? Tmac was known to be a selfish player, especially compared to Kobe???:lol Wow! I swear you dudes be making stuff up all the time. Jeff Van Gundy as well as other people has said on NUMEROUS times, he's probably the MOST unselfish star.

Van Gundy also called McGrady “a great defender” who has “an incredibly high basketball IQ.”

“Father Time started to chip away at some of that athleticism,” Van Gundy said.

“But he’s still a good athlete who’s incredibly unselfish and really understands how to play basketball. So I think that would endear him to the New York fans.

McGrady started at point guard in place of Rodney Stuckey, who was out with a stomach virus, and had season highs in points (21 on 7-of-11 shooting), assists (8) and minutes (30). He also had four rebounds and three steals.


"Sometimes you forget how good he is, but he was so unselfish,” Pistons coach John Kuester said. “That's the thing that impresses me so much. He moves the basketball and does the little things."

There has been NO player during that era that has been more selfish than Kobe. Just stop. That's almost like saying Kobe isn't a ballhog. Be real. There's a reason he's probably the only player in NBA history to get booed for shooting too much at an all star game. Oh but then again, you Kobe fans still want to believe it's because he was a Laker right?:rolleyes

#justsayin
 
ShortStroke calls Kobe one dimensional then brings up Dr. J in his argument. Ok.......
shortstroke
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I can assure you, Julius Erving not only carried the ABA, making it a direct competitor to the NBA, the good Doctor is also responsible for keeping the NBA in the black in the years before the arrival of Larry and Magic. You may see Doc as being one dimensional as a player, but in regard to sheer excitement, especially during his era, Dr. J was on par with Godfather of Soul James Brown, Muhammad Ali, Hank Aaron, and even OJ Simpson before he upped and went all crazy. These cats were THE men in their respective fields, as they were being ushered in as the NEW Black men in the world, those that dominated and owned their competition.

The cultural impact of Julius Erving, was even greater than that of Allen Iverson during his run. People were rocking big fro's, high top Cons, pulling their socks up to their knees, then trying to play the game with only one hand.

Doc was the man, and to many, he still is.

Kobe Bryant will never be in his ballpark in regard to global respect, and damned sure not on the street cred tip.

Doc wasn't overrated, but Kobe surely is.
 
A legend? Yes
First ballot HOF? Yes
Top 10 all time? Yes

Overrated? Unfortunately, yes also.
 
Wait what? Tmac was known to be a selfish player, especially compared to Kobe???:lol Wow! I swear you dudes be making stuff up all the time. Jeff Van Gundy as well as other people has said on NUMEROUS times, he's probably the MOST unselfish star.
There has been NO player during that era that has been more selfish than Kobe. Just stop. That's almost like saying Kobe isn't a ballhog. Be real. There's a reason he's probably the only player in NBA history to get booed for shooting too much at an all star game. Oh but then again, you Kobe fans still want to believe it's because he was a Laker right?:rolleyes
#justsayin

#justsayin you've always come out the past 10 years whenever tmac is involved :lol

look what you did. i said one line, and you worked up a nice big response. and you're right, i didnt put much thought into, but i don't believe its out of the question. any superstar is going to get called selfish. if you take plays off, don't give your full effort, dont give your all in conditioning and training, thats selfish.

but basically, you come to the defense just like everyone else came to kobes or against kobe, it aint no different, yet you're getting mad at kobe 'stans'. EVERYONE is a damn stan they just dont want to admit it. of course theres different levels of it.
 
This thread is crazy and entertaining at the same time.

Kobe isn't top 5 all time. Jordan/Russell/Wilt/Magic/Kareem have that list on lock, and it's not changing anytime soon. Anywhere from top 10 to top 15 is pretty accurate, and there's no shame or problem with that. He has the respect of his NBA peers both past and present, and in the end he will go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game hands down. But he won't be number 1, and it's gonna take a LOT more for him to get into that top 5.

It has nothing to do with liking him, being a fan/hater/stan. It has nothing to do with global appeal, cultural impact etc. Not sure what Dr. J's (or anyones) street cred or global appeal have anything to do with he or Kobe being overrated from a basketball standpoint. No disrespect, the man was and is a legend on and off the court but his appeal doesn't add to what he did or didn't do on the court. If We're talking strictly basketball, and from a subjective standpoint I don't think there's a person in this thread that would disagree with Kobe being at LEAST top 15 all time. If you have Kobe in the top 5 players of all time, then you're overrating him. Other than that I don't see how a top 10-15 player can be considered overrated. Personally I have him at 9(behind Jordan/Russell/Wilt/Magic/Kareem/Bird/Shaq/Duncan/Robertson).

Just my opinion, seems like it's either love or hate with Kobe...no in between
 
Second time he used a bleacher report "writer" for "proof" of whatever he thinks Kobe is.


This was in that article
Why should Rajon Rondo make a third All Star team when he’s 78th in PER? Why should his jersey be the NBA’s third best seller when Ty Lawson’s scraping Rondo in win shares?

:lol

Those articles weren't posted as proof, just posting other peoples opinions on the matter. Didn't even know that second article was from a Bleacher Report writer, I just though it was well written, very tongue in cheek while still addressing the subject.

Rondo shakes up a snow globe and it becomes his crystal ball.

Great line.

But here is another "etherous" article, whose intro paragraph sums up my viewpoint....

Why Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history

Overrated has seemingly took on a different meaning. Overrated is often interpreted as a sign of disrespect or an insult. This hub is not to say that Kobe isn't an elite basketball player or isn't all time great. By overrated, it means that many overestimate the merits of Kobe; or rate him too highly. In terms of historical relevance and all time greatness.

http://giancarlolorenzo.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Kobe-Bryant-is-overrated

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Conclusion
Kobe truly is one of the best basketball players to have ever walked the earth. But when stacked up against the likes of other all time greats from a historical standpoint; such as MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Bird, and even Shaq, he doesn't compare. He didn't have the immediate impact that they had. He wasn't the best player on most of his championship teams. When he was the best player on a championship team, it wasn't by much. He has had the greatest fortune of any player in NBA history. Even more so than Bill Russell who had so many Hall of Fame teammates. Although most of Russell's teammates wouldn't have made the Hall of Fame without him.

Kobe has the accolades and stats, but they don't tell the entire story. How he came about those accolades and stats is a subject for debate. Whether or not he legitimately deserved all of those NBA First-Teams or all those First-Team All-Defenses. His longevity which allowed him to attain so many accolades and stats. Or even his MVP in which Chris Paul probably deserved. Pau Gasol was also just as worthy of Finals MVP in 2010.

Is Kobe all time great? Certainly. But is he as good as the media and his fans say he is? Absolutely not. His historical excellence is elevated to a ridiculous degree. There is no shame in saying Kobe is one of the greatest basketball players ever. But when you start putting him in the discussion with MJ, Magic, Russell, Kareem, or even Bird from a historical standpoint, you are going too far. Kobe is great, but his impact on the Lakers hasn't been anything like that of those players on their teams. The Lakers were winning before Kobe, with Kobe, and will win after Kobe.
 
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I've been saying this for quite some time, and I agree with those who say that Bryant is overrated. 

With that said, he is very good, but he is simply a one dimensional player, and then downright unwatchable for those of us who love the game. When hot, he can fill it up. When I watch players that I feel are the all time greats, or those who are considered the greatest, I look at players who've carried the league, then made even non fans of the game want to watch them ply their trade. Oscar Robertson did this for the NBA in the early years, as the purists loved his game, then on to Dr. J, who not only carried the ABA, but the NBA for a while as well, as his talent transcended the game itself. Bird and Magic did it after Doc, and Jordan also had this effect, as viewership and attendance for the NBA was at an all time high during his tenure as the best.

Here's a bit on what happened after Jordan retired,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings

During Kobe's prime, the NBA viewership has been on a steady decline. He does not make you want to watch him, outside of fans of LA Lakers, due to his not having that IT factor. He's never been that guy in the DR. J, Bird and Magic, or Jordan mold.

He's good as a player, but not very good as someone who transcends the game. You cannot deny the greatness of Doc, Magic and Bird or Jordan on court, but one can certainly say that due to Kobe not transcending the game, that he is most definitely not an all time top ten player.

Mikan

Wilt

Russell

Oscar

Kareem

Erving

Magic

Bird

Jordan

and now we have LeBron James.

Those above LeBron carried the league, and Kobe Bryant has not even come close to doing that. LeBron has a serious chance of doing just that.

While LeBron's offensive repertoire may not be as expansive as that of Kobe Bryant's, he is far more the complete player, one who can make people ooh and ahhh, without shooting the ball. People who are not fans of the game love watching unselfish players, players that play all sides of the ball, exhibiting a mastery of their trade. To many, what Jordan was able to do defensively, was equally as impressive as his offensive onslaughts, especially when he and Scottie were paired on the defensive end of the ball. Even if you hated Jordan, you had to admit, he was fun to watch.

Kobe Bryant has never been fun to watch. It always seems that he is trying too hard, taking the most difficult of shots, when they are not necessary, while also taking too many OF them.

That said, Kobe Bryant is indeed overrated, but the perspective of him actually being highly rated, only happens on forums such as this.

In reality where there are no REPORT BUTTONS, Kobe Bryant is just a good player.
the most ignorant thing i have ever read. kobe has worked on his game relentlessly on a consistent basis.
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I feel the same way.
Never got excited about dudes game.
During his prime, I got much more excitement from A.I. and T-Mac's legendary games.
Kobe chucks too much and then crucifies his teammates for not being involved, when he never allowed them to get in a rhythm with his selfishness.
His decision making is #pobre too.
He was the best player in the league only once, his rightfully deserved MVP year.
Look at page 239/240 etc. in the Lakers thread....same Lakers fans getting at me in this thread are saying the exact same things I've been posting. http://niketalk.com/t/508728/official-lakers-season-thread-7-8-11-30-vs-den/7170

All of this! Sick of dude n can't wait til he retires...
 
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Ill be real with y'all.

Is he overrated? Kinda but that doesnt take away that he is 1 of the greatest players I've ever seen. I'm not a Kobe fan at all
 
That Rondo comparison was the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Kobe is one of the greatest. This coming from a Boston fan. I still hesistate to put him above Russell/Wilt/Kareem or even Shaq though.
 
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Its hilarious to me that people still try to say that kobe is one dimensional....in the frobe days sure but since then he's been far from one dimensional. ....I honestly stop take peoples opinions seriously once they say that
 
the most ignorant thing i have ever read. kobe has worked on his game relentlessly on a consistent basis.
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What even more ignorant, is to think that just because he has worked on his game, that his game has become any more versatile.

It hasn't.

Shaq, Wilt, and now Dwight Howard constantly worked on their free throws, how'd that work out?

See how IGNORANT your suggestion is?
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And neither will the other side.
Not really seeing your point.
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And I don't understand why you guys take coach hubie serious.
Son got ether'd in the zkviii thread.
Got him so worked that he started posting fake videos.
Just remember this, you remember the name Coach Hubie, but he does not remember you.

Now think about who really got ether'd, SON.

Kobe Bryant is overrated, and his fans on Nike Talk are simply delusional while  thinking that Kobe Bryant actually has had the same impact on the game as legends like Mikan, Wilt, Russ, Oscar, Kareem, Doc, Larry and Magic, Jordan, and now the oncoming  LeBron James.

He's never carried the league, never was a major draw on television, nor at the gates. But all the aforementioned have been, and then are, all while being GREAT players.

Kobe retires, nobody will miss him but Laker fans. He, has no impact other than being just a good player.
 
#justsayin you've always come out the past 10 years whenever tmac is involved :lol
look what you did. i said one line, and you worked up a nice big response. and you're right, i didnt put much thought into, but i don't believe its out of the question. any superstar is going to get called selfish. if you take plays off, don't give your full effort, dont give your all in conditioning and training, thats selfish.
but basically, you come to the defense just like everyone else came to kobes or against kobe, it aint no different, yet you're getting mad at kobe 'stans'. EVERYONE is a damn stan they just dont want to admit it. of course theres different levels of it.

When people make up stuff that is straight up mind boggling then yeah, I have to come out and correct them. Tmac being more selfish than Kobe is laughable. Straight up. Has nothing to do with being a "stan" or whatever you're talking about. Only time I get at Kobe "stans" are when they make up BS. Like when you kobe stans would say, "oh tmac wanted to be the man so he left Toronto to go to Orlando" or some made up crap you guys like to just throw out of the air.:{ #justsayin
 
Kareem and O during te 70s didn't really impact anyone. Basketball was at a stale state in the 70's
And Lebron ain't impacting anyone either.
There are so many great players in today's game that we don't have to just choose one. With Mike he was as entertaining as it got in the 90's.
we have so many scoters and Dunkers in our time.
This dude Kobe would sell out crowds in 06-07 just to see his scoring runs.
 
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Kareem and O during te 70s didn't really impact anyone. Basketball was at a stale state in the 70's
And Lebron ain't impacting anyone either.
There are so many great players in today's game that we don't have to just choose one. With Mike he was as entertaining as it got in the 90's.
we have so many scoters and Dunkers in our time.
This dude Kobe would sell out crowds in 06-07 just to see his scoring runs.
You are talking out of your butt.

Do you know what Oscar Robertson did for the game, and how he changed the game?

Do you know what Kareem did in actually carrying the game, then changing it himself?

Do your research.

I've already posted the stats on how the NBA has suffered during Kobe's prime, and he doesn't sell out NOTHING but his teammates.
 
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Larry, Bird and MJ obviously had GREAT impact you can't compare the others to theirs. You should answer your own questions before asking ******ed questions.
Kobe alone made the NBA suffer? :lol
He sold out his teammates who won 2 chips with him just 4 years ago :rollin
 
Larry, Bird and MJ obviously had GREAT impact you can't compare the others to theirs. You should answer your own questions before asking ******ed questions.
Kobe alone made the NBA suffer?
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He sold out his teammates who won 2 chips with him just 4 years ago
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Do...your...research.

If it were not for Wilt, Russell, Oscar, Kareem, Doc, you would not know the NBA as it is today.

There is no doubt about this.

Spike Lee was correct when he said that you kids don't know anything about last week, let alone about anything that happened ten to twenty years ago.
 
Really he sold out his teammates? Let's not act like Jordan wasn't a ball hog. Or like Jordan was some mythical good teammate. There's plenty of record of Jordan being the absolute worst to Scottie.

And we're really talking impact. Besides Yao Ming there has never been a player more popular in China than Kobe. EVER. Period. There's no debate to that.

As an overseas impact there's only 2 players, who are remotely worthy of this discussion and that's Jordan and Kobe. Everyone else has nowhere near anything on those 2.

Regardless, we're talking impact on the game.. Really impact? And ticket sales? What's that got to do with ranking how good a player is? If that's the case Tim Duncan doesn't deserve to be in the top 20 (Don't spazz Doo, I'm not saying that.)

And we might as well rank Jalen Rose and all the Fab 5 guys for the trends they started in basketball.. Then we should give Iverson a top 10 nod as well.

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense in 95% of those Kobe Overrated Comments.
 
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Really sold out his teammates. Let's not act like Jordan wasn't a ball hog. Or like Jordan was some mythical good teammate.
And we're really talking impact. Besides Yao Ming there has never been a player more popular in China than Kobe. EVER. Period. There's no debate to that.
As an overseas impact there's only 2 players, who are remotely worthy of this discussion and that's Jordan and Kobe. Everyone else has nowhere near anything on those 2.
And we're talking impact on the game.. Really impact? And ticket sales? What's that got to do with ranking how good a player is? If that's the case Tim Duncan doesn't deserve to be in the top 20 (Don't spazz Doo, I'm not saying that.)
And we might as well rank Jalen Rose and all the Fab 5 guys for the trends they started in basketball.. Then we should give Iverson a top 10 nod as well.
Nonsense. Absolute nonsense in 95% of those Kobe Overrated Comments.
Two names, Shaq, and Karl Malone.

Sold them out.

So what Kobe Bryant is popular in China? Plenty people, right? Ratings STILL tanked during his prime.

Not many wanted to watch him.

But since you want to bring up whether or not Tim Duncan is Top ten, well, he isn't either.

Best power forward? Yup.

But as a player? He does not beat out the Top Ten that actually carried the league, the true measure of GREATNESS, those that transcend the game.

Mikan, Wilt, Russ, Oscar, Kareem, Doc, Larry and Magic, Jordan, that's the Mount Rushmore, and Kobe Bryant does not belong there.

Never will either..
 
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