IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[sea manup]

i like how people say things like prime tmac could have won with all those lakers championship teams

this is exactly why kobe's longevity is a huge factor for why he's great

lakers draft kobe in 96, he's great in the 3 championships with shaq as a kid

he's still great almost 10 years later in the 2 championships with pau and crew in his 13th and 14th season

tmac's 13th and 14th seasons in the league he couldnt even average 10 ppg

iverson's 13th and 14th seasons he averaged around 15 ppg

wade is in his 12th season and already sitting out every other game

kobe is out there winning an MVP, leading his team to three straight finals and winning two

you guys bring up names like paul pierce and ray allen, those two guys teamed up together with a BETTER pf in KG and great coaching (thibs + doc) and they still didnt win as much as kobe did in that span of time

what makes kobe great is that he not only turned his paring with shaq into three championships which included the most dominant playoff run ever but but he also was able to stay great long enough to sit through a total team rebuild and lead the new team to back to back finals almost a decade later.

 

[45djhgh]

Im sure most ppl that follow the nba knows kobe won without shaq. Again, say what u want to remind us how great he is.

Wade earned his stripes? I thought he was d whistle in the 06finals. You guys have selective memories

 

[sea manup]

Im sure most ppl that follow the nba knows kobe won without shaq. Again, say what u want to remind us how great he is.

Wade earned his stripes? I thought he was d whistle in the 06finals. You guys have selective memories

what are you trying to say? 

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Im sure most ppl that follow the nba knows kobe won without shaq. Again, say what u want to remind us how great he is.

Saying he won more titles after Shaq left is a simple fact, it's not like I'm twisting stats to "throw in that extra to make him look GREAT" as you so eloquently put it.

 

[45djhgh]

Sea manup you are right with your statment but have the cape on. Of course you need longevity to be successful like kobe. I like how you throw dirt on tmac,Iverson, wade. Kobe/pau vs Boston big 3 was 2-1 titles. Not sure why u make it out like it was a bigger margin. Kobe stans always putting in extra to hype up kobe and throwing dirt on every1 else smh.

 

[sea manup]

Sea manup you are right with your statment but have the cape on. Of course you need longevity to be successful like kobe. I like how you throw dirt on tmac,Iverson, wade. Kobe/pau vs Boston big 3 was 2-1 titles. Not sure why u make it out like it was a bigger margin. Kobe stans always putting in extra to hype up kobe and throwing dirt on every1 else smh.

where am i throwing dirt on anyone? 

they are all great players, but not as great as kobe. simple as that

 

[45djhgh]

Saying he won more titles after Shaq left is a simple fact, it's not like I'm twisting stats to "throw in that extra to make him look GREAT" as you so eloquently put it.

Lol I know its a fact. I just like the way you gotta THROW it in there. Just making sure THAT HE HAS 2MORE RINGS AFTER SHAQ left, WHILE SHAQ HAS 1 WITH WADE BEING FINALS MVP. I know. You dont have to put the cape on.

 

[gvhp2223]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11938700/save-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant

This article comes up every year. #Clutch

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Saying he won more titles after Shaq left is a simple fact, it's not like I'm twisting stats to "throw in that extra to make him look GREAT" as you so eloquently put it.

Lol I know its a fact. I just like the way you gotta THROW it in there. Just making sure THAT HE HAS 2MORE RINGS AFTER SHAQ WHILE SHAQ HAS 1 WITH WADE BEING FINALS MVP. I know. You dont have to put the cape on.

The last two pages have been one of the dumbest arguments against Kobe - that in some alternate reality, Ray Allen/Iverson/Sprewell/T-Mac/Vince would've won just as many titles playing with Shaq. Kobe was just in the right place at the right time.

I'm throwing the fact that he won 2 more titles cause it kinda shows how STUPID that idea is.

It doesn't really require putting a cape on to point out something that simple.

 

[45djhgh]

Lol what? Kobe winning 2more shows you how the idea works. Replace shaq with a less dominate player in pau and kobe can still win. Pau still being great in his own right. I said shaq plus other would have success.I didn't say more rings or 3peat. I didn't say anything that was a reach. keep that cape on jeez

 

[Deleted member 37467]

I don't really care about his accomplishments because you can take any talented wing player and put him in the same situations that Kobe's been blessed with and you'd get the same results, if not better.

i wish i could neg you

dumbest post in this thread

You're you, tho, so I really don't care what you have to type,

I don't think people realize how dominant Shaq was back then.

Dude has 3 Finals MVP's for a reason.

 

[mister friendly]

Kobe has 2 NBA Finals MVPs for a reason

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Lol what? Kobe winning 2more shows you how the idea works. Replace shaq with a less dominate player in pau and kobe can still win. Pau still being great in his own right. I said shaq plus other would have success.I didn't say more rings or 3peat. I didn't say anything that was a reach. keep that cape on jeez

I more or less agreed with you the first time you made your point about Shaq.

The stuff about Kobe, including bringing up his 2 other titles, was in response to the last two pages, not just you.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

Yea, because he's a good player.

He just wasn't as important to the success of that Lakers 3 peat as some people think.

 

[sea manup]

Yea, because he's a good player.

He just wasn't as important to the success of that Lakers 3 peat as some people think.

he was an all nba level, second best player on all three of those championship teams

where has anyone implied that kobe single handedly lead the lakers to 5 championships? 

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I don't think people realize how dominant Shaq was back then.

Dude has 3 Finals MVP's for a reason.

People realize this. That doesn't in turn mean Kobe or anyone else wasn't important or replaceable.

 

[essential1]

Yea, because he's a good player.

He just wasn't as important to the success of that Lakers 3 peat as some people think.

Nah he was pretty important.

Kobe by himself, they don't win.

Shaq by himself, they don't win.

 

[gvhp2223]

Kobe has 2 NBA Finals MVPs for a reason

What is that reason? Marketing, and marketing only.

Shaq was the clear-cut MVP in those 3 Finals.

In the 2009 and 2010 Finals, Pau was arguably the MVP both years.

 

[shoeking2101]

This hyper guy is spewing straight nonsense over the past 3 pages. Entertaining though, I am entertained for sure

 

[shoeking2101]

What is that reason? Marketing, and marketing only.


Shaq was the clear-cut MVP in those 3 Finals.

In the 2009 and 2010 Finals, Pau was arguably the MVP both years.

Add him to the list...the **** are you talking about man did you not see what Kobe did in those finals against orlando and boston or are you just talking to be talking?

 

[essential1]

In the 2009 and 2010 Finals, Pau was arguably the MVP both years.

No he wasn't. Not one person believed Pau should have won the Finals MVP in 2009 or 2010

 

[Deleted member 37467]

This hyper guy is spewing straight nonsense over the past 3 pages. Entertaining though, I am entertained for sure

Aren't you the guy who claimed Kobe was top 3 undisputed?

C'mon, now.

Yea, because he's a good player.

He just wasn't as important to the success of that Lakers 3 peat as some people think.

Nah he was pretty important.

Kobe by himself, they don't win.

Shaq by himself, they don't win.

They probably don't win w/ just Shaq, you're right.

But like I said earlier, I feel like there are a few 1's and 2's that you could put on that team and they'd have the same success.

 

[shoeking2101]

I don't really care about his accomplishments because you can take any talented wing player and put him in the same situations that Kobe's been blessed with and you'd get the same results, if not better.

Whhaaaaatttt

 

[essential1]

John Hollinger in 2010 before game 6

Win or lose, Kobe Finals MVP?
PER Diem: June 14, 2010

By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

BOSTON -- In an odd Finals filled with statistical oddities and in which each game has borne virtually no resemblance to its predecessor, it's perhaps fitting that through five games we're left with another unusual situation: There is no clear-cut choice for series MVP. In fact, if Boston were to close things out with a win in Game 6 on Tuesday, as many as four Celtics could garner serious consideration.

Of course, the MVP doesn't have to come from the winning team. While this isn't the letter of the rule it's been an unwritten law for the past four decades -- every Finals MVP since 1969 has come from the winning team. Alas, every rule has its exception, and after Sunday night's 38-point effort we may be looking at one in the form of Kobe Bryant.

While the Celtics deserve their 3-2 lead in the series, there's no question who the best player has been over these first five games. That point was driven home with a sledgehammer in Game 5 when Bryant scored 19 points in the third quarter only to find the Celtics' lead had increased when he was done.

This continued a Finals in which Bryant has had at least 20 points in every game, has had only one game that possibly could be construed as somewhere close to ordinary (Game 2), and has had a pair (Games 1 and 5) in which he was absolutely spectacular.

For the series, Bryant is averaging 30.2 points per game; no other player is averaging more than 19. He's done it reasonably efficiently too, with a 55.2 true shooting percentage in a series in which the average has been 53.4. That's amazing considering the difficulty of the attempts he's taken, especially in Game 5.

Bryant has filled the stat sheet in various and sundry other ways, too. Bryant leads all Finals players in steals, is second in assists and has yanked down six rebounds a game. About the only quibble one could make is that he's been a bit turnover-prone; of course, he's playing against the league's top turnover-forcing defense, so this shouldn't come as a huge shock.

And while the league doesn't award extra points for degree of difficulty, part of the reason Bryant has been forced into such challenging attempts is how little help he's received from the cavalry. Again, this point was hammered into our consciousness in the second half of Game 5 -- Pau Gasol was the only Lakers starter to score a basket after halftime, and the Spaniard's play was positively repulsive throughout (among his other assorted flubs, did anyone else catch him standing in the paint watching as Nate Robinson flew by for an easy fourth-quarter layup?).

If you're not sold on Bryant's MVP case yet, then consider the alternative. If not Kobe, who?


The fact is Bryant has been by far the most productive player, and the only reason the Celtics are ahead is because five of the next six best players (the four above and supersub Glen Davis) have been wearing green. If series MVP voters are using their heads and not their hearts, Bryant is an obvious pick even with his team trailing.

There's an irony here, of course. I mentioned above that only one player has won Finals MVP in a losing effort; it was Bryant's idol and mentor, former Lakers star Jerry West. Wait, there's more. It came in the 1969 Finals … against the Celtics … against a veteran Boston team, in fact, that had won only 48 games and was seeded just fourth in the Eastern Conference at the start of the playoffs. L.A. ended up losing Game 7 at home despite 42 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists from West.

A lot of water still has to go under the bridge for Kobe to join West, but suffice it to say that if Kobe goes for 42, 13 and 12 in a losing effort in the finale the award is probably his regardless of what anyone on the Celtics does.

Of course, Kobe would only join West if the Lakers did, in fact, lose the series. He could also go down in history more happily if the Lakers win the final two games. At this point I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that he'll win the award if that happens, with Gasol having essentially eliminated himself from further consideration with his performances in Games 4 and 5 and no other player coming close to Bryant statistically.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

I don't really care about his accomplishments because you can take any talented wing player and put him in the same situations that Kobe's been blessed with and you'd get the same results, if not better.

Dawg wtf man

I don't really care about his accomplishments because you can take any talented wing player and put him in the same situations that Kobe's been blessed with and you'd get the same results, if not better.

Whhaaaaatttt

You need some air, man?