IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[nako xl]

But they drafted that best Small Forward though

no they didn't.

and, so?

if they never trade for pippen, jordan never gets a ring.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.


It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

 

[quik1987]

 

[darthska]

[quote name="CP"]Basically what I figured. No one could actually make the point, or refute the claim that Kobe's overall game, defense included, matches up pretty well with Magic.

Ride Shaq
Phil made them great
Pierce, Kidd, Vince comparisons
Misses a ton of shots
And style

Those replies, those can be added with ease. None of these "basketball minds" in here could speak on the players themselves tho. Couldn't refute my point about the holes in Magic's game, just gloss over them and pretend the point was never made.[/quote]Exactly.

Except not at all.

I made a point... many times... about the unquantifiable impact Magic had. I've mentioned the complete lack of talent that other players were surrounded with. If a good debate relies on responses and rebuttals, there have definitely been both responses and rebuttals to the gaudy stats you have posted.

If you don't want to acknowledge those responses, that's understandable. But they definitely happened, whether you acknowledge them or not.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Injured Dwight
Injured 39 year old Nash
Injured 33 year old Pau
36 year old Jamison
32 year old Artest
While Kobe himself is 34.

Goin on their 6th month playin together.


It's the same thing, clearly.

I'd kill for an injured center that has played 90 percent of the games and averages 16 and 12

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Injured Dwight
Injured 39 year old Nash
Injured 33 year old Pau
36 year old Jamison
32 year old Artest
While Kobe himself is 34.

Goin on their 6th month playin together.


It's the same thing, clearly.

I'd kill for an injured center that has played 90 percent of the games and averages 16 and 12

They were label Champs before season started but now it's the age excuse

 

[SneakerProSr.]

"They will pay for their basketball decisions"

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by CP  
Basically what I figured. No one could actually make the point, or refute the claim that Kobe's overall game, defense included, matches up pretty well with Magic.

Ride Shaq
Phil made them great
Pierce, Kidd, Vince comparisons
Misses a ton of shots
And style

Those replies, those can be added with ease. None of these "basketball minds" in here could speak on the players themselves tho. Couldn't refute my point about the holes in Magic's game, just gloss over them and pretend the point was never made.

Exactly.

Except not at all.

I made a point... many times... about the unquantifiable impact Magic had. I've mentioned the complete lack of talent that other players were surrounded with. If a good debate relies on responses and rebuttals, there have definitely been both responses and rebuttals to the gaudy stats you have posted.

If you don't want to acknowledge those responses, that's understandable. But they definitely happened, whether you acknowledge them or not.

Your argument isnt a quantifiable actual thing though. it's just "je ne c'est quoi".

We could argue that Horry has that same impact on all his team mates since its not an actual thing we're gonna try to measure.  Where does that place him in the list of greats?

#BadArguments

 

[nako xl]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.


It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

and again. no they didn't.

they went out and traded for him because jordan needed help.

he couldn't win alone.

 

[sb]

@francc ur laughing coz its true douche
@XX HPDV thank u finally someone with some sense around here,talking to kb fans its like talking to a toddlers bunch of kids they will
Never get it theyll feed off the media and sportscenter smh

i laugh at clowns like you

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.



It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

and again. no they didn't.

they went out and traded for him once he was drafted because jordan needed help.

he couldn't win alone.

Yup he sure couldn't but remind us of what Pippen ever did with out Jordan and what the players Kobe has played and is playing with now.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

trade on draft day!!! wow big deal

he started his career in Chicago

 

[sb]

It hasn't happened yet.

So

YES

it might never happen depending on the point of view. that still does not justify being overrated.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

"They will pay for their basketball decisions"

but it was Mike Browns Fault

 

[nako xl]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.



It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

and again. no they didn't.

they went out and traded for him once he was drafted because jordan needed help.

he couldn't win alone.

Yup he sure couldn't but remind us of what Pippen ever did with out Jordan and what the players Kobe has played and is playing with now.

Name one player on this Lakers roster who has won a championship without Kobe Bryant.

How many have been to the NBA finals without Kobe?  Dwight?

How many have been to the conference finals without Kobe?  Nash and Dwight?

What have the players Kobe's playing with now done without him?

I ask that, to ask you, "what's your point?"

 

[onetrust]

there's nothing to answer. what ska said was opinion and doesn't mean much beyond that.

kobe came in much younger than magic, less developed and didnt even get burn for two years. so all that he accomplished was really done in 15 years of play.  magic came in on a STACKED team and had the benefit of playing on one his entire career. Kobe had bad teams at the start and bad teams in the middle.

magic also won a finals mvp just because kareem got hurt at the end. look at the numbers that series and that playoffs. kareem would have won that fmvp.

that league leader in individual skill thing is kinda dumb.

and we already established that giving magic props for leading the nba in steals means nothing defensively when you can say allen iverson WHO CAN'T GUARD ANYONE led the nba in steals 3x.  it just means he gambled in passing lanes his entire career.

and say what you want about tim duncan being better than kobe (i dont even understand where that comes from or the point youre trying to make comparing the two) or about kobe riding shaq, but for several years (or at the very least 2002-2003) kobe was hands down the best player in the nba.

hands down.

WOW at the enlarged bolded words. You gotta be kidding me! That's why i can't stand Kobe fans. Kobe had bad teams at the start??!?! BWHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. You mean the team where he was gifted with the BEST center in the game? Or playing under Van Exel and Eddie Jones, aka TWO all stars!?!?!? Ohhhh okkaaaayyy. Stop fronting like Kobe hasn't been JUST as blessed when it comes to playing with talent for his ENTIRE career. Even his "bad years" he had Caron Butler and Lamar Odom compared to his peers who were playing with George Lynch or Pat Garrity as their second option.

And Kobe was NEVER hands down the best player in the NBA for several years. Stop it!

 

[619destroyer858]

i dont think he's OVERRATED(5 RINGS,30000 plus points,future hall of famer),,right now INJURIES/AGE are killing his fame and game.

 

[sb]

Phil turned the Lakers into a perennial winner year in and year out

coaches are a big influence on a team but at the end they dont score points or grab rebounds. players play the game.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.




It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

and again. no they didn't.


they went out and traded for him once he was drafted because jordan needed help.


he couldn't win alone.

Yup he sure couldn't but remind us of what Pippen ever did with out Jordan and what the players Kobe has played and is playing with now.

Name one player on this Lakers roster who has won a championship without Kobe Bryant.

How many have been to the NBA finals without Kobe?  Dwight?

How many have been to the conference finals without Kobe?  Nash and Dwight?

What have the players Kobe's playing with now done without him?

I ask that, to ask you, "what's your point?"

Dwight Howard and Steve Nash have both been franchise players of teams that have have had extended periods of success while being the best players on their respective teams

Scottie Pippen can not make that claim

 

[sb]

So cuz someone doesn't like the style he plays, the WAY he plays, then he can't be mentioned with Magic as GLOAT or one of the true NBA greats, thus overrated?

I see. That makes a lot of sense.

Or none at all really. But as you said, least you were honest. I'm good with that.

*Kobe is overrated and not one of the all time greats cuz I hate his style of play, don't matter that he actually has the skills, talent, and drive to match the greats, he's plays a style I don't agree with so he can't be near Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt etc.*


Basically what I figured. No one could actually make the point, or refute the claim that Kobe's overall game, defense included, matches up pretty well with Magic.

Ride Shaq
Phil made them great
Pierce, Kidd, Vince comparisons
Misses a ton of shots
And style

Those replies, those can be added with ease. None of these "basketball minds" in here could speak on the players themselves tho. Couldn't refute my point about the holes in Magic's game, just gloss over them and pretend the point was never made.

By a Laker fan, no less.

That's what this thread is.

Ska, Cartune, you guys at least make your points and back them. Even if I don't agree, you make good debates.

bill simmons hates kobe because he doesnt play how he wants him to play. bill walton told him just because he doesnt play the way you want him to doesnt discredit how he gets it done and his work ethic, journey, etc.

 

[nako xl]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.




It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

and again. no they didn't.


they went out and traded for him once he was drafted because jordan needed help.


he couldn't win alone.

Yup he sure couldn't but remind us of what Pippen ever did with out Jordan and what the players Kobe has played and is playing with now.

Name one player on this Lakers roster who has won a championship without Kobe Bryant.

How many have been to the NBA finals without Kobe?  Dwight?

How many have been to the conference finals without Kobe?  Nash and Dwight?

What have the players Kobe's playing with now done without him?

I ask that, to ask you, "what's your point?"

Dwight Howard and Steve Nash have both been franchise players of teams that have have had extended periods of success while being the best players on their respective teams

Scottie Pippen can not make that claim

Scottie Pippen is a hall of famer and arguably the BEST small forward ever.  Has Nash ever been the clear cut best point guard in the nba at any point?  Is Dwight Howard currently a hall of famer?

Pippen isn't considered the GOAT basketball player.  Jordan is.  But... like I said Jordan could never win **** without Pippen.  Was winless in the playoffs before him and could never even make the playoffs after.

Jordan is overrated.

 

[onetrust]

Injured Dwight
Injured 39 year old Nash
Injured 33 year old Pau
36 year old Jamison
32 year old Artest
While Kobe himself is 34.

Goin on their 6th month playin together.


It's the same thing, clearly.

Stop with this tired *** excuse as if they were doing ANYTHING before the "injuries." Oooh let me guess, "new system" right? Funny how it wasn't a "new system" when the Heat were struggling in the beginning the first year the Big 3 joined but now since it's Kobe, EVERY excuse is used by the same people, no less. HILARIOUS!

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Still they drafted him. They made the team a title contender through the draft.





It's completely different than throw a boat load of money at the best player in FA

and again. no they didn't.



they went out and traded for him once he was drafted because jordan needed help.



he couldn't win alone.

Yup he sure couldn't but remind us of what Pippen ever did with out Jordan and what the players Kobe has played and is playing with now.

Name one player on this Lakers roster who has won a championship without Kobe Bryant.


How many have been to the NBA finals without Kobe?  Dwight?


How many have been to the conference finals without Kobe?  Nash and Dwight?


What have the players Kobe's playing with now done without him?




I ask that, to ask you, "what's your point?"

Dwight Howard and Steve Nash have both been franchise players of teams that have have had extended periods of success while being the best players on their respective teams


Scottie Pippen can not make that claim

Scottie Pippen is a hall of famer and arguably the BEST small forward ever.  Has Nash ever been the clear cut best point guard in the nba at any point?  Is Dwight Howard currently a hall of famer?

Pippen isn't considered the GOAT basketball player.  Jordan is.  But... like I said Jordan could never win **** without Pippen.  Was winless in the playoffs before him and could never even make the playoffs after.

Jordan is overrated.

If deep down is your heart of hearts you think there is an argument that Scottie Pippen legitimately the greatest 3 of all time then I don't want to continue this and stop responding to me.

 

[acbboyz84]

Kobe was really the best player in the league from 2001-2009

 

[onetrust]

Scottie Pippen is a hall of famer and arguably the BEST small forward ever.  Has Nash ever been the clear cut best point guard in the nba at any point?  Is Dwight Howard currently a hall of famer?

Pippen isn't considered the GOAT basketball player.  Jordan is.  But... like I said Jordan could never win **** without Pippen.  Was winless in the playoffs before him and could never even make the playoffs after.

Jordan is overrated.

Ummm Pippen lost that claim the moment a guy that you Kobe fans love to hate stepped onto an NBA court for his 5th season on. Stop it! And umm, Nash winning the MVPS made him a clear cut best pg at that time. Dwight Howard is way too young to be in the HOF. I don't even know where you trying to go with that one. Oh that's right, trying to discredit Dwight as if he hasn't been the best center in the L for the past couple years.