IF blacks never was enslaved... (lets discuss politics)

[goldenchild9]

As I have long known...this is a forum purely for unproductive arguments, ego stroking, and lulz.

No one even replied about the positive tangible solutions but the bickering is in high demand.

I'm gone.

 

[goldenchild9]

...

 

[futuremd]

As I have long known...this is a forum purely for unproductive arguments, ego stroking, and lulz.

No one even replied about the positive tangible solutions but the bickering is in high demand.

I'm gone.

This is so ridiculous.

You said religion helps people.

Myself and LongStroke asked "How."

You replied about how communities help people.

You didn't answer how "religion," namely Christianity helps people

Then when asked again, you claim that people are stroking egos.

Alright then. Thats what it is. 

 

[dathbgboy]

Anyway...
Does anyone have any opinions or feedback on these or other viable strategies for progress?

I'm talking about using "Green" mandates to build greenhouses in abandoned homes the hood....
Incorporating unincorporated territories....
Establishing sovereignty through things like the UN charter of indigenous rights....
Creating our own educational systems, our own clinics and hospitals, our own banks, infrastructure and entities....
Establishing our own jurisdictions.....and facilitating these things by means of corporatism.
That's where we need to be at with it.
Again that's only if we're talking about real solutions on a serious level.

Now, are you speaking in terms of blacks owning and running these things in an "isolated" way, meaning for blacks, by blacks, etc etc? Don't think that's the right way to go about it. But there does need to be more black owned businesses that actually work together as a unit and blacks supporting their own.

Back in my hometown, there is a Korean American grocers org called KAGRO and they all work together and have a scholarship banquet every year. There's a lot of "them" that attend but also ppl from the neighborhood. They are apart of the neighborhood as well and treat ppl as such.

I feel if blacks did something along that magnitude, it would be a step in the right direction. However, when you have 20 pulling us forward, u have 100 pulling us back

 

[futuremd]

The problem is that he keeps using "black" as some global term.

Its not.

Jamaicans and Trinidadians and Barbadian people are ALL different. And thats just the Caribbean.

Thats like saying all asians need to stick together...knowing DAMN well the Japanese hate the Chinese who hate Koreans who hate the Vietnamese who hate the Cambodians and Filipinos who beef with the Indonesians etc.

The REAL problem is that "black" americans don't have a "culture" or identity thats recent yet unique enough to draw from.

We already saw what happens when you try to force a bunch of black people together in crude boundaries just because they look alike.

Look at post-colonial Africa for an example. 

If you want to inspire "black" people to come together, it has to be under the guise of recognizing that you all really dont share anything in common, only that the rest of the world views you as outsiders and thats the only thing that unites you. 

 

[yeold360s]

We already saw what happens when you try to force a bunch of black people together in crude boundaries just because they look alike.

Look at post-colonial Africa for an example. 

That was done on purpose, though

 

[longstroke]

The REAL problem is that "black" americans don't have a "culture" or identity thats recent yet unique enough to draw from.

Ahhh, I have to disagree there.  

During the sixties and early seventies, the Black pride movement in America, really connected with people globally. I've been to a few parts of Africa, and I've seen what Black American art forms have wrought there. James Brown was HUGE over there with Say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud. At that time, there seemed to be a growing connection through Black pride.  Fela Kuti, then many others were influenced through the art forms that were created here, as even the Aborigines in Australia drew a connection to the new found pride.

 

[futuremd]

The REAL problem is that "black" americans don't have a "culture" or identity thats recent yet unique enough to draw from.

Ahhh, I have to disagree there.  

During the sixties and early seventies, the Black pride movement really connected with people globally. I've been to a few parts of Africa, and I've seen what Black American art forms have wrought there. James Brown was HUGE over there with Say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud. At that time, there seemed to be a growing connection through Black pride.  Fela Kuti, then many other were influenced through the art forms that were created here, as even the Aborigines drew a connection to the new found pride.

I mean that black americans don't know anything maybe more than a few generations back. We're some of the only people in the world that can't do that reliably. 

Add to the fact that black people are different from most other segments of the population in that they've had to create their own identity where there wasnt one.

Where do black americans go back to? There is no "home" for many of them. America is the second home for many people. Black Americans don't have any other place to go. And Africa ain't taking them back for the most part. Especially when most don't even know where to go back to. 

I'm not saying that black americans don't have an identity, but merely that its not as authentic in the sense that its had to be fabricated rather quickly instead of developing organically in comparison to everyone else.

 

[smangalang]

I mean that black americans don't know anything maybe more than a few generations back. We're some of the only people in the world that can't do that reliably. 

Add to the fact that black people are different from most other segments of the population in that they've had to create their own identity where there wasnt one.

Where do black americans go back to? There is no "home" for many of them. America is the second home for many people. Black Americans don't have any other place to go. And Africa ain't taking them back for the most part. Especially when most don't even know where to go back to. 

I'm not saying that black americans don't have an identity, but merely that its not as authentic in the sense that its had to be fabricated rather quickly instead of developing organically in comparison to everyone else.

you have a serious inferiority complex.

 

[longstroke]

I mean that black americans don't know anything maybe more than a few generations back. We're some of the only people in the world that can't do that reliably. 

Add to the fact that black people are different from most other segments of the population in that they've had to create their own identity where there wasnt one.

Where do black americans go back to? There is no "home" for many of them. America is the second home for many people. Black Americans don't have any other place to go. And Africa ain't taking them back for the most part. Especially when most don't even know where to go back to. 

I'm not saying that black americans don't have an identity, but merely that its not as authentic in the sense that its had to be fabricated rather quickly instead of developing organically in comparison to everyone else.

I see what you are saying.

The Liberia thing was interesting, however America is our home. Which is why it's so important for us to take what it is that we want, because there isn't anyone, to give us anything.  

 

[futuremd]

I mean that black americans don't know anything maybe more than a few generations back. We're some of the only people in the world that can't do that reliably. 

Add to the fact that black people are different from most other segments of the population in that they've had to create their own identity where there wasnt one.

Where do black americans go back to? There is no "home" for many of them. America is the second home for many people. Black Americans don't have any other place to go. And Africa ain't taking them back for the most part. Especially when most don't even know where to go back to. 

I'm not saying that black americans don't have an identity, but merely that its not as authentic in the sense that its had to be fabricated rather quickly instead of developing organically in comparison to everyone else.

you have a serious inferiority complex.

Is that so?

Where are you from?

Show me your family tree.

I'm lucky enough that my roots to the carribean go back farther than most black americans. Are you that lucky?

I'm being completely realistic here.

Black people don't have a home. They can't keep looking to Africa. Thats over and done. Most people don't even know WHERE in Africa they belong. Statistically, two africans in the same country are more genetically dissimilar than the average black american. You know this, right?

We have to focus on the HERE and NOW if you want to see some sort of change. Learn about that history if you'd like, but just know that its only going to get you so far, especially since its so fragmented and limited. 

 

[smangalang]

Is that so?

Where are you from?

Show me your family tree.

I'm lucky enough that my roots to the carribean go back farther than most black americans. Are you that lucky?

yup. I'm Naija with some famous relatives. The lineage can be traced back hundreds of years to the Obi and then with some speculation even further back. My initial statement wasn't stated to imply you being an ignoramus but rather your lack of imagination by comparing your situation to that of others. No five fingers are equal but all have a purpose. Blacks in America have the opportunity to be whatever they want to be and create a culture but rather squander that opportunity by comparing to everyone else. All the while everyone is copying black people in America. And lastly Black Africans love Black Americans. The older generation might be brainwashed but better believe the youngins are on it.

 

[futuremd]

Is that so?

Where are you from?

Show me your family tree.

I'm lucky enough that my roots to the carribean go back farther than most black americans. Are you that lucky?

yup. I'm Naija with some famous relatives. The lineage can be traced back hundreds of years to the Obi and then with some speculation even further back. My initial statement wasn't stated to imply you being an ignoramus but rather your lack of imagination by comparing your situation to that of others. No five fingers are equal but all have a purpose. Blacks in America have the opportunity to be whatever they want to be and create a culture but rather squander that opportunity by comparing to everyone else. All the while everyone is copying black people in America. And lastly Black Africans love Black Americans. The older generation might be brainwashed but better believe the youngins are on it.

I'm skeptical of that. Not saying you don't but from what i've heard i'm a little dubious of that claim... 

I went to school with a lot of africans and we've had this convo all the time. My sis even did a semester abroad in ghana recently. I really don't think black americans know what it means to "go back to africa."

Thats such a flawed understanding of the world that its ridiculous. Most black americans don't even know WHERE they came from. Its almost irresponsible to assert that all we need is a boat and we'll be fine. 

Going back is pretty pointless and with each day, that attempt at reconnecting is futile. 

In fact, before genetic sequencing (which is still pretty crude) you could only guess where in africa you MIGHT be from. 

 

[smangalang]

I'm skeptical of that. Not saying you don't but from what i've heard i'm a little dubious of that claim... 

I went to school with a lot of africans and we've had this convo all the time. My sis even did a semester abroad in ghana recently. I really don't think black americans know what it means to "go back to africa."

Thats such a flawed understanding of the world that its ridiculous. Most black americans don't even know WHERE they came from. Its almost irresponsible to assert that all we need is a boat and we'll be fine. 

Going back is pretty pointless and with each day, that attempt at reconnecting is futile. 

In fact, before genetic sequencing (which is still pretty crude) you could only guess where in africa you MIGHT be from. 

skeptical of what? who said anything about going back?

 

[longstroke]

In hindsight, I'd like to think that we'd be accepted everywhere, because actually, we already are.

African American culture, Black culture, is possibly the most influential culture in the world. We are the most imitated people on the planet, which is both a good, and then bad thing. Some love to imitate the less appealing of our culture, but the swag is undeniable, especially in regard to arts and entertainment. What I'd like to see happen, is that with the presence of our President, that we will begin to have even more of an intellectual presence as well. It would be nice to have someone other than a preacher as an emissary, then representing Black Culture.

 

[tomdiginson]

I'm from New Orleans. With my people, religion ain't helpin too much. If anything it's hurting us because people think they can lean on it instead of bussin dat ***** on the regular. I don't "lean" on religion, but I definitely am a follower of Christ and it helps me through the tough times.

Prime example: Homie been unemployed since my senior year in high school (2005). He's still unemployed, no education and still bouncing around the neighborhood crashing on people's couch. I asked him why he doesn't just get up and get a damn job. Response, "Chill out son, God got mah back. He gonna handle it." 

Sounds like they are picking and choosing part's of the bible that best suits them and their situations. I know a few people like this, after a while when things don't work out like they had planned, they get mad at God and begin discouraging others not to follow said religion They seem to forget that the bible said use wisdom also 2nd Thessalonians 3:10 basically says those who dont want to work will not eat. If someone doesn't put in the extra initiative then how does one expect to go anywhere in life ? T

 

[wavy bone]

I've gotta say...one of the most hilarious things I always see on NT is how when somebody brings up slavery...the instant rebuttal is always "well everyone were slaves...and black people had slaves too".

 

[longstroke]

I've gotta say...one of the most hilarious things I always see on NT is how when somebody brings up slavery...the instant rebuttal is always "well everyone were slaves...and black people had slaves too".

That's an argument from ignorance. It's also like the Christians here suggesting that the slavery in the bible, was different than that in the Western world, and that's what makes the slavery in the bible not as bad.

 

[offwhitewhite]

I've gotta say...one of the most hilarious things I always see on NT is how when somebody brings up slavery...the instant rebuttal is always "well everyone were slaves...and black people had slaves too".

It's a true statement. What makes black slavery more significant than others? 

Also, people imitating black culture peeked in the late 80's and all of the 90's. 

Everything now is Euro inspired with the tight jeans and "bro" shirts.

 

[wavy bone]

It's a true statement. What makes black slavery more significant than others? 

Is this a serious question?

 

[offwhitewhite]

Is this a serious question?

Europe was conquered twice almost 3 times if I recall correctly. 

 

[futuremd]

It's a true statement. What makes black slavery more significant than others? 

Is this a serious question?

This is just going to turn into a rock-throwing context.

"my oppression was worse than yours etc"

You don't get anywhere with that. All you can do is recognize that it happened.

Its like saying gay rights movements are the same as the civil rights of the 1960s...they're analogous but obviously not the same. Otherwise they'd be called the same thing. They still seek to rectify injustices, not compare them. 

The genocide in rwanda wasn't better or worst than the armenian genocide. Its just as much of a tragedy as any other human rights violation. 

 

[offwhitewhite]

This is just going to turn into a rock-throwing context.

"my oppression was worse than yours etc"

You don't get anywhere with that. All you can do is recognize that it happened.

Its like saying gay rights movements are the same as civil rights...they're analogous but obviously not the same. They still seek to rectify injustices, not compare them. 

I never said that and have no intentions of doing that.

 

[longstroke]

Europe was conquered twice almost 3 times if I recall correctly. 

Was the economy of the western world redistributed due to their being conquered?

With the African slave trade, this was indeed the case. 

 

[longstroke]

It's a true statement. What makes black slavery more significant than others? 

Also, people imitating black culture peeked in the late 80's and all of the 90's. 

Everything now is Euro inspired with the tight jeans and "bro" shirts.

What kind of music do they listen to?

Who do they emulate on the playgrounds in Europe?

Last time I was in France, most recently at the Jordan Brand QUAI event, I saw all sorts of Black influence, all over the place.

Same in Germany, and most definitely Italy.

It's not just about tight clothes 

....how'd that become Euro anyway?