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How good is Monta Ellis really?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 3900stabler,
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jumpmanfromdabay
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But he doesn't get calls at all. He's always taking a beating.
jumpmanfromdabay
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But he doesn't get calls at all. He's always taking a beating.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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What are you looking for, style points? Isn't the goal to put the ball into the basket? Who cares how you do it?
Martin isn't Steve Kerr shooting wide-open shots from three for a high %. He's among the best shot-creators in the league and has been incredibly efficient doing it. His defense also sucks like Ellis's does, but as a scorer he's been among the league's best this season.
The way I see it, Martin is like the shooting guard version of Boozer. He can score a good amount of points on limited amount of shots. He can get to the line, and shoots a good percentage from the field.
They're consistent scorers, but not dangerous. I don't see either of them as takeover players with their scoring.
And if a team changes their game to zero in on them then their effectiveness goes down.
But then there are other players like Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Melo - those guys can just keep going no matter what the defense throws at them. I'm not saying they can do it every night but they can.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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What are you looking for, style points? Isn't the goal to put the ball into the basket? Who cares how you do it?
Martin isn't Steve Kerr shooting wide-open shots from three for a high %. He's among the best shot-creators in the league and has been incredibly efficient doing it. His defense also sucks like Ellis's does, but as a scorer he's been among the league's best this season.
The way I see it, Martin is like the shooting guard version of Boozer. He can score a good amount of points on limited amount of shots. He can get to the line, and shoots a good percentage from the field.
They're consistent scorers, but not dangerous. I don't see either of them as takeover players with their scoring.
And if a team changes their game to zero in on them then their effectiveness goes down.
But then there are other players like Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Melo - those guys can just keep going no matter what the defense throws at them. I'm not saying they can do it every night but they can.
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It is funny.Originally Posted by chrome vapors
It's not even that funny though.Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE
Originally Posted by abovelegit1
He Can't Be Serious With That Statement
He's probably the single quickest player in the league. Finishes as well ANYBODY, mid range game is AUTOMATIC, 3pt shooting has improved significantly each of the last two seasons, can effectively run the 1 or the 2. The only knock on his game offensively is his FT%. I just don't see how it's that laughable unless you've rarely seen him play.
Who's a better all around scorer? You guys are laughing like he's not top 3 right now.
Mid-range game is not automatic. ~41% from 10-15 feet, and 38% from 16-23 feet. Neither marks are close to the top 30 percentages in the league for players that have played in at least 30 games and 25 minutes per.
At the rim, he's converting at a 65% rate. Again, not close to the top 30 marks in the league.
3 point shooting has improved, but his 39% again isn't in the top 30, and is a 33% career shooter, so the improvement may possibly be a fluctuation.
Can run the point? Is that a joke?
FT shooting is just plain bad, especially for a guard that dominates the ball and takes as many shots as he does.
Better all around scorers: Dirk, Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Chris Paul, Durant, Kevin Martin, etc. etc.
So again:
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It is funny.Originally Posted by chrome vapors
It's not even that funny though.Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE
Originally Posted by abovelegit1
He Can't Be Serious With That Statement
He's probably the single quickest player in the league. Finishes as well ANYBODY, mid range game is AUTOMATIC, 3pt shooting has improved significantly each of the last two seasons, can effectively run the 1 or the 2. The only knock on his game offensively is his FT%. I just don't see how it's that laughable unless you've rarely seen him play.
Who's a better all around scorer? You guys are laughing like he's not top 3 right now.
Mid-range game is not automatic. ~41% from 10-15 feet, and 38% from 16-23 feet. Neither marks are close to the top 30 percentages in the league for players that have played in at least 30 games and 25 minutes per.
At the rim, he's converting at a 65% rate. Again, not close to the top 30 marks in the league.
3 point shooting has improved, but his 39% again isn't in the top 30, and is a 33% career shooter, so the improvement may possibly be a fluctuation.
Can run the point? Is that a joke?
FT shooting is just plain bad, especially for a guard that dominates the ball and takes as many shots as he does.
Better all around scorers: Dirk, Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Chris Paul, Durant, Kevin Martin, etc. etc.
So again:
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We must have spent our entire lives watching different leagues.Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
People, if you don't like the referring in the game, either become one or pick another sport to watch. The league is not out to get or reward players of their choice. I guess the ref scandal from awhile back doesn't help with that perception, but we don't need that melodrama.
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I hate to go into the referee argument because normally it's such a weak line, but in his case, I feel like it's a warranted complaint. Mind you, there's an obvious bias with me, but I've also watched just about every W's game this season (some twice). He's very gifted at getting into the paint, but I've seen him get hammered and not get a call, much less the times he'll get bumped on his way to the hoop and come off balance. Honestly, I'm all for reffing the game tougher, but to be getting 6 FTs a game when a lot of your game is set up by exploding toward the basket, it doesnt seem like that style of play coincides with the number of FTs he gets.Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
"On offense, the only thing that's really stopping him is a lack of respect among referees. He throws himself into the lane with the best of them but doesn't get foul calls as often as he should."
Let's not put this on the refs. Hate it when people do this.
Your other points are valid though.
My only knock is that after seeing how truly efficient he could be (07-08 season), I'd like to see him get back to that point where he can get some of his points easier (off the ball screens and cuts), but that all rests on Steph.
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I hate to go into the referee argument because normally it's such a weak line, but in his case, I feel like it's a warranted complaint. Mind you, there's an obvious bias with me, but I've also watched just about every W's game this season (some twice). He's very gifted at getting into the paint, but I've seen him get hammered and not get a call, much less the times he'll get bumped on his way to the hoop and come off balance. Honestly, I'm all for reffing the game tougher, but to be getting 6 FTs a game when a lot of your game is set up by exploding toward the basket, it doesnt seem like that style of play coincides with the number of FTs he gets.Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
"On offense, the only thing that's really stopping him is a lack of respect among referees. He throws himself into the lane with the best of them but doesn't get foul calls as often as he should."
Let's not put this on the refs. Hate it when people do this.
Your other points are valid though.
My only knock is that after seeing how truly efficient he could be (07-08 season), I'd like to see him get back to that point where he can get some of his points easier (off the ball screens and cuts), but that all rests on Steph.
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We must have spent our entire lives watching different leagues.Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
People, if you don't like the referring in the game, either become one or pick another sport to watch. The league is not out to get or reward players of their choice. I guess the ref scandal from awhile back doesn't help with that perception, but we don't need that melodrama.
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Seriously. This is the NBA we're talking aboutOriginally Posted by chrome vapors
We must have spent our entire lives watching different leagues.Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
People, if you don't like the referring in the game, either become one or pick another sport to watch. The league is not out to get or reward players of their choice. I guess the ref scandal from awhile back doesn't help with that perception, but we don't need that melodrama.
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"He can score a good amount of points on limited amount of shots."
Oh, so you mean someone who can have nearly an identical scoring average on less shots taken per game, less minutes played per game, and on slower pace offense isn't as good of a scorer?
Hmm...
Oh, so you mean someone who can have nearly an identical scoring average on less shots taken per game, less minutes played per game, and on slower pace offense isn't as good of a scorer?
Hmm...
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Seriously. This is the NBA we're talking aboutOriginally Posted by chrome vapors
We must have spent our entire lives watching different leagues.Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
People, if you don't like the referring in the game, either become one or pick another sport to watch. The league is not out to get or reward players of their choice. I guess the ref scandal from awhile back doesn't help with that perception, but we don't need that melodrama.
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"He can score a good amount of points on limited amount of shots."
Oh, so you mean someone who can have nearly an identical scoring average on less shots taken per game, less minutes played per game, and on slower pace offense isn't as good of a scorer?
Hmm...
Oh, so you mean someone who can have nearly an identical scoring average on less shots taken per game, less minutes played per game, and on slower pace offense isn't as good of a scorer?
Hmm...
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Yeah, and you're still watching it.
Don't complain about the product when you're busy watching the games, buying jerseys and putting team logos for your avatar. You think the refs are shady? What are you still doing watching the NBA then?
Don't complain about the product when you're busy watching the games, buying jerseys and putting team logos for your avatar. You think the refs are shady? What are you still doing watching the NBA then?
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Yeah, and you're still watching it.
Don't complain about the product when you're busy watching the games, buying jerseys and putting team logos for your avatar. You think the refs are shady? What are you still doing watching the NBA then?
Don't complain about the product when you're busy watching the games, buying jerseys and putting team logos for your avatar. You think the refs are shady? What are you still doing watching the NBA then?
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Dumbest rhetoric ever. Go sit down somewhere. Like honestly does that make sense to you?
Because someone has a minor gripe their supposed to ignore all the other positive factors and not consume the product? FOH.
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Dumbest rhetoric ever. Go sit down somewhere. Like honestly does that make sense to you?
Because someone has a minor gripe their supposed to ignore all the other positive factors and not consume the product? FOH.
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That gripe you're referring to, KINDA affects the outcome of games. Especially when the Warriors play teams that have the so-called "ref favorite" players that you have in mind.
Oh right, I know. Maybe the refs should give Monta a trip to the line every time down on the floor. Then you'll shut up. And then tell other fans that complain that "he's drawing contact like all good players do!"
Oh right, I know. Maybe the refs should give Monta a trip to the line every time down on the floor. Then you'll shut up. And then tell other fans that complain that "he's drawing contact like all good players do!"
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That gripe you're referring to, KINDA affects the outcome of games. Especially when the Warriors play teams that have the so-called "ref favorite" players that you have in mind.
Oh right, I know. Maybe the refs should give Monta a trip to the line every time down on the floor. Then you'll shut up. And then tell other fans that complain that "he's drawing contact like all good players do!"
Oh right, I know. Maybe the refs should give Monta a trip to the line every time down on the floor. Then you'll shut up. And then tell other fans that complain that "he's drawing contact like all good players do!"
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What the hell are you talking about fool?Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight
That gripe you're referring to, KINDA affects the outcome of games. Especially when the Warriors play teams that have the so-called "ref favorite" players that you have in mind.
Oh right, I know. Maybe the refs should give Monta a trip to the line every time down on the floor. Then you'll shut up. And then tell other fans that complain that "he's drawing contact like all good players do!"
