Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

People always look at me funny and ridicule me when I say that I believe in Aliens more then I believe in Jesus.

You mean, the resurrection of Jesus.

Actually Jesus' existence as a man is still up for debate.

 

[vatech733]

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by vatech733

i just read the post about how small the earth really is and the pictures that showed what other galaxies looked like 13 billion light years away and i have always thought about how religion seemed almost insane to me. I was thinking if there are infinity galaxies there are infinity life forms. Then i thought about how rediculous religion really sound when you put it all in perspective. I understand religion is all about faith and living a good life but i really believe that if you live the right way and have a faith in yourself you do not need religion to guide you in the right direction. Idk though just thinking about how much else is really out there its highly unlikely to impossible that any religion is even close to being true. any one else feel the same way?

That just reaffirms my faith with God. God says in the Qur'an:
"The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily. We are expanding it."
(51:47)

Early Muslims had no idea what this verse meant and for thousands of years, it was just said that it is one of the mysteries of God. It was not until recently when scientists have discovered that the universe is expanding that Islamic scholars have grasped the meaning of this verse.

was that written when everyone on earth had no idea about even all the countries on earth? There is no chance that back in those times they had a realunderstanding of anything related to science or astronomy. and when you say expanding you mean just infinity? and that every other galaxy has planets withhuman beings that believe in jesus christ that is absurd. there are life forms out there that are beyond anyone on earths imagination. To believe in astatement made so long ago with such little knowledge is the craziest thing i ever heard. you believe what you want but it is crazy to me.

 

[moonmaster3]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

People always look at me funny and ridicule me when I say that I believe in Aliens more then I believe in Jesus.

You mean, the resurrection of Jesus.

Actually Jesus' existence as a man is still up for debate.

That is in a minority of scholars. I mean, you can bring that up...but most people are beyond that now.

 

[daytona 5000]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

People always look at me funny and ridicule me when I say that I believe in Aliens more then I believe in Jesus.

Believe that they exist?....Or in them?.......Jesus was a great MAN.

I believe in the existence of extraterrestrials more then I believe in the divinity of Jesus, is what I meant to say.

 

[mytmouse76]

why can't you believe in both? just asking...

 

[wooly willy]

Originally Posted by vatech733

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by vatech733

i just read the post about how small the earth really is and the pictures that showed what other galaxies looked like 13 billion light years away and i have always thought about how religion seemed almost insane to me. I was thinking if there are infinity galaxies there are infinity life forms. Then i thought about how rediculous religion really sound when you put it all in perspective. I understand religion is all about faith and living a good life but i really believe that if you live the right way and have a faith in yourself you do not need religion to guide you in the right direction. Idk though just thinking about how much else is really out there its highly unlikely to impossible that any religion is even close to being true. any one else feel the same way?

That just reaffirms my faith with God. God says in the Qur'an:
"The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily. We are expanding it."
(51:47)

Early Muslims had no idea what this verse meant and for thousands of years, it was just said that it is one of the mysteries of God. It was not until recently when scientists have discovered that the universe is expanding that Islamic scholars have grasped the meaning of this verse.

was that written when everyone on earth had no idea about even all the countries on earth? There is no chance that back in those times they had a real understanding of anything related to science or astronomy. and when you say expanding you mean just infinity and that every other galaxy has planets with human being that believe in jesus christ is absurd. there are life forms out there that are beyond anyone on earths imagination. To believe in a statement made so long ago with such little knowledge is the craziest thing i ever heard. you believe what you want it is crazy to me.

That's why I believe. That man Muhammad lived in 7th century Arabia. He couldn't read or write nor did he have any type of formaleducation. People back then did not even know that the world was round but the Qur'an said so 1400 years ago:

And after that He spread theearth
[79:3

In the original Arabic (I used an old English translation), the word "Dahaha" is used but it was translated into "spread" in English. Whatis "Dahaha"? "Dahaha" is a word that was used by the Arabs to refer to eggs. However, it was not just any eggs they would use this word forbut specifically an ostrich egg.

From modern science, we know that the Earth is not really a sphere but really pokes out at each of the poles like an ellipse.

How about this, the Big Bang Theory in the Qur'an 1400 years ago:

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation),before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
[21:3

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth:"Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
[41:11]

Clearly those 2 verses demonstrate that the universe orgininally came from one single entity before it was "split". You don't even needinterpretation to see how clear that is.

Remember these were verses recited 1400 years ago by an illiterate, uneducated shepard.

 

[vatech733]

wow you pout in work. but those really don't clear things up, im sorry man but i guess ill find out at the end

 

[daytona 5000]

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

why can't you believe in both? just asking...

Because Jesus wasn't the son of God

 

[kb8sandiego]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by KB8sandiego

^
Read the Bible. It's in there.

It also says that eating shellfish is an abomination much like a man who sleeps with another man, or a man who sleeps with a woman while Aunt Flow is in town.


[size=-1]"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an[/size] abomination [size=-1]to you." (Leviticus 11:10)[/size]
The Bible also states that no one should eat pork.


And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. (Leviticus 11:7)



I'm trying to understand your view on Christ dying for the sins of the world. Not to accuse you of condoning actions such as lust, rape, or murder, but what do you mean when you say:

Really, you don't want Jesus' death to atone for your past and future sins?

I'm really trying to gauge your modus operandi within this debate. Are you basically a skeptical Christian? Where exactly do you stand on the topic at hand? I'm asking respectfully.

You indeed did bring up laws created by God in the Old Testament which were created for Israel. The Old Covenant.

But if you re-read my other post, prophecy by Isaiah, in the book of Isaiah, I believe Isaiah 58, would bring a prophet who would atone for all the sins ofIsrael and the Gentiles (non-Israelites who believe in God).

In the New Testament, the sacrifice of Jesus to take upon the sins of the world establishes a New Covenant with God. Since Jesus, willingly gave up his life,God gives a Christian an opportunity to establish a closer relationship with him, rather than those in the Old Testament who lived in such bondage with the OldCovenant. Yes, all those laws are in the Bible, but they have been washed away by that according to the New Testament. That's why I brought up theconfusion in regards to understanding the Bible. The Old Testament teaches us to fear God, love him, and no other. But the New Testament teaches us to love Godfor he loves us. Reading both the Old and New Testament teaches a Christian, the understanding of what salvation is. I believe in regards to the book ofNumbers, there are a total of 613 laws. Now according in that time, how is a man/woman in the middle of the desert going to keep track of 613 laws? Meaningthat, whatever bondage they were put in, regardless of what they did, they sinned.

Also, to clear things up. I'm a born again Christian. Non-denominational. My faith is clearly based on the Holy Word. Also, as a Gentile, we're taughtto love Israel and her surrounding countries. Yes including Muslims. So indeed, it is wrong for fellow Christians to blaspheme Muslims. Then again, those arethe radicals, and pretty much every religion has them which paint a bad picture.

In regards to my statement about Jesus dying for our sins, or to the person I was talking to, it was just in question because to me, it seemed that hedidn't believe that Jesus dying on the cross would make up for his sins, or whatever sins he may commit in the future. According to our faith in the NewTestament, we all fall short in the glory of God. Now it's through Jesus Christ, that we may enter God's kingdom, Heaven. As long as we believe as aChristian and say with our own lips, speaking from our heart, that we believe Jesus died for our sins, we may enter Heaven.

Now, that doesn't say that hey, I believe in Jesus, my sins are forgiven, I can sin away. That completely misses the point. I can understand how that maybe a broad understanding of the faith Jesus, but once you've been "saved," why would you turn back to something you've been saved from. I.E.Sin. Good example would be the story of Mary Magdalene and her encounter with Jesus. According to the Old Laws of the Old Testament, she was about to getstoned to death because for being a ++$%+. Since Jesus intervened, he said, he who has not sinned let them cast the first stone. Well, nobody throw a damnstone because they would be hypocrites. Jesus then forgives Mary and tells her to be on her and not to sin no more. That's just example of being saved fromyour sins by the account of Jesus.

As far as where I stand with this topic, I'm not against the OP. I understand his disbelief. It's not easy being a Christian. I've been throughsome tough times myself and I've questioned why God would put me or any other people in such horrible predicaments. But for me, in the end, it just took alot of prayer and faith, and a lot of time reading and understanding the Bible.

It's a complex book, and I understand how people can take the statement, "it's in the Bible," and misinterpret it. I just decided to drop mytwo cents in regards to clarification of the Bible.

 

[chi ill]

Our purpose on Earth is to reproduce ...

 

[yankeesfan0130]

godis the greatest

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

Our purpose on Earth is to reproduce ...

Really? That's all you think we're here for?

 

[remembernikepark]

I heard once in a movie I think.... " I don't believe in God, but I am scared of him"

 

[iiceman83]

1) .Khnum, in Egyptian, means molder. Khnum is usuallyshown as a ram-headed deity working at his potter's wheel, fashioning men and all living creatures out of clay.
A passage from an Egyptian creation legend by Khnum follows:

The mud of the Nile, heated to excess by the Sun, fermented and generated, without seeds, the races of men and animals.

Passages of the Bible leave no doubt about the belief in the concept of the Divine Potter. Genesis, 2:7 mentions the material used to make man, the sametype of substance used by Khnum:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The well-known Ancient Egyptian illustration showing Khnum, the Divine Potter, at his potter's wheel, fashioning men fromclay, was echoed thousands of years later in Isaiah, 64:8:

Yet, O Lord, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou art our potter; we are all the work of thy hand.

2) Daily life activities are portrayed, on the walls of the Ancient Egyptian tombs, in the presence of the neteru (gods/goddesses) orwith the assistance of the neteru.
The typical Egyptian sowing and reaping scene is symbolically similar to the Bible's "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

3) Various fishing nets and traps are portrayed on the walls of the Ancient Egyptian tombs. In other texts, Heru (Horus)becomes a fisherman and his four disciples ("sons") also fish for him.
This is another parallel between Christian and Egyptian symbolism. Christ used the symbolism several times and he made his disciples Fishers of men

4).A text from the Egyptian Book of Night reads:

To come out of the Netherworld, to rest in the Morning Barge, to navigate the Abyss until the hour of Re, She who sees the beauty of her Lord, to make transformations in Khepri, to rise to the horizon, to enter the mouth, to come out of the vulva, to burst forth out of the Gate of the Horizon of the Hour, She who lifts up the beauty of Ra in order to make live men, all cattle, all worms he has created.
The Ancient Egyptian text is very similar to Genesis 1:24, where God says,

Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing ...�� �� ��

 

[ekon one]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Common sense

says the satanist

 

[moonmaster3]

Originally Posted by IICEMAN83

1) .Khnum, in Egyptian, means molder. Khnum is usually shown as a ram-headed deity working at his potter's wheel, fashioning men and all living creatures out of clay.
A passage from an Egyptian creation legend by Khnum follows:

The mud of the Nile, heated to excess by the Sun, fermented and generated, without seeds, the races of men and animals.

Passages of the Bible leave no doubt about the belief in the concept of the Divine Potter. Genesis, 2:7 mentions the material used to make man, the same type of substance used by Khnum:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The well-known Ancient Egyptian illustration showing Khnum, the Divine Potter, at his potter's wheel, fashioning men from clay, was echoed thousands of years later in Isaiah, 64:8:

Yet, O Lord, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou art our potter; we are all the work of thy hand.

2) Daily life activities are portrayed, on the walls of the Ancient Egyptian tombs, in the presence of the neteru (gods/goddesses) or with the assistance of the neteru.
The typical Egyptian sowing and reaping scene is symbolically similar to the Bible's "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

3) Various fishing nets and traps are portrayed on the walls of the Ancient Egyptian tombs. In other texts, Heru (Horus) becomes a fisherman and his four disciples ("sons") also fish for him.
This is another parallel between Christian and Egyptian symbolism. Christ used the symbolism several times and he made his disciples Fishers of men

4).A text from the Egyptian Book of Night reads:

To come out of the Netherworld, to rest in the Morning Barge, to navigate the Abyss until the hour of Re, She who sees the beauty of her Lord, to make transformations in Khepri, to rise to the horizon, to enter the mouth, to come out of the vulva, to burst forth out of the Gate of the Horizon of the Hour, She who lifts up the beauty of Ra in order to make live men, all cattle, all worms he has created.
The Ancient Egyptian text is very similar to Genesis 1:24, where God says,

Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing ...�� �� ��








I love un-cited evidence along with using Egyptian drawings that are just cartoons, instead of using the actual picture itself. Let me guess, Zeitgeist was aneye opener for you?

 

[dr spaceman]

Just basic sense, everyday observations and a study of history.

 

[SUSHI AND GRITS]

LUST is definitely up there in the sins IMO.

I'm just blessed that I didn't grow into a player or pimp... took a different road and if I can help it, I'm staying the same. Once you become acertain age, it's hard for people to change.

Life is about helping people and understanding their stories so you can help them to change.

 

[tkthegirl]

The story of Jesus.

 

[tupac jordan]

If y'all don't accept Jesus Christ the Lord & Savior I hope y'all burn in hell!

 

[tkthegirl]

Originally Posted by Tupac Jordan

If y'all don't accept Jesus Christ the Lord & Savior I hope y'all burn in hell!

Love you too.

 

[tupac jordan]

JK I'm an Atheist just trying to stir up some fun.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by IICEMAN83

1) .Khnum, in Egyptian, means molder. Khnum is usually shown as a ram-headed deity working at his potter's wheel, fashioning men and all living creatures out of clay.
A passage from an Egyptian creation legend by Khnum follows:

The mud of the Nile, heated to excess by the Sun, fermented and generated, without seeds, the races of men and animals.

Passages of the Bible leave no doubt about the belief in the concept of the Divine Potter. Genesis, 2:7 mentions the material used to make man, the same type of substance used by Khnum:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The well-known Ancient Egyptian illustration showing Khnum, the Divine Potter, at his potter's wheel, fashioning men from clay, was echoed thousands of years later in Isaiah, 64:8:

Yet, O Lord, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou art our potter; we are all the work of thy hand.

2) Daily life activities are portrayed, on the walls of the Ancient Egyptian tombs, in the presence of the neteru (gods/goddesses) or with the assistance of the neteru.
The typical Egyptian sowing and reaping scene is symbolically similar to the Bible's "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

3) Various fishing nets and traps are portrayed on the walls of the Ancient Egyptian tombs. In other texts, Heru (Horus) becomes a fisherman and his four disciples ("sons") also fish for him.
This is another parallel between Christian and Egyptian symbolism. Christ used the symbolism several times and he made his disciples Fishers of men

4).A text from the Egyptian Book of Night reads:

To come out of the Netherworld, to rest in the Morning Barge, to navigate the Abyss until the hour of Re, She who sees the beauty of her Lord, to make transformations in Khepri, to rise to the horizon, to enter the mouth, to come out of the vulva, to burst forth out of the Gate of the Horizon of the Hour, She who lifts up the beauty of Ra in order to make live men, all cattle, all worms he has created.
The Ancient Egyptian text is very similar to Genesis 1:24, where God says,

Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing ...�� �� ��


http://www.youtube.com/v/hREEUr6tyiw&rel=1



Pan-Babylonialism is an argument of authenticity against all Abrahamic religions, which is why I feel it is necessary to respond to this

.

When I first heard of the Sumerian clay tablets and their stories, my faith was honestly shaken.� I began to think there was no way that our Abrahamicreligions are actually the word of God, but rather just stories that continued to get passed down.

Then I did some research and found that historians believe that these stories most probably represented stories from even before their time, to show you howold they actually were.

But the Q'uran tells us that other civilizations have been given the ability to follow religion with their own apostles.

Here are the verses :
"For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve God, and eschew Evil": of the People weresome whom God guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (theTruth). ( 16:36)"

"To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, andthey will not be wronged. (, 10:47)"

"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now God leavesstraying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom. (14:4)"

"Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having livedamong them (in the past). (35:24)"

"We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as Godpermitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed). ( 13:3"

Probably the sumerians were influenced by what their prophets said ..And the message of ALL the prophets was monotheism and submission to God i-e the messagewas Islam ..This could be one of the reasons why there are similarities between the sumerian stories and any Quranic stories.

 

[larrivee7]

To the OP, I can identify with what you mean. When you're in college, you for the most part shape who you are going to be for the rest of your life. You get pelted every day with all kinds of worldviews and ideas, and you are forced to respond one way or the other. I really think that if a person grew upin the church, they either move closer to God or farther away while they're in school (or during those years after high school). For many, the combinationof being surrounded by so many other worldviews and being away from home/parents/everything you're used to -- leads to doubt in a lot of things theybelieve.

College campuses, by and large, are hostile towards God, especially towards the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is to be expected, as the Gospel is itselfoffensive. It is not meant to be heard and then forgotten or shrugged off. The Gospel forces you to examine yourself. People (especially young, opinionated,and empowered young people) react very strongly when they are told that God is completely Holy and perfect, and we are the exact opposite. That we can donothing to please God or to have a relationship with Him on our own because we are separated from Him because of our sin. We don't like to be told thatthere is something wrong with us, or that we can't do something on our own, and that we need a SAVIOR. God created us to be with Him, but we can't bebecause we are all sinful. And our sin can only be atoned for (and WAS atoned for) through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We areprideful, glory-seeking creatures who want to be self-sufficient and above all RIGHT. We want to be the god of our own life, and even when we realize thatwe're miserable in this state, we won't admit it. Basically, the Gospel is meant to be offensive and to bring about a strong reaction from those whohear it so that we examine ourself and see our need for Christ.

And you're right, professors and college in general strives to get you to think for yourself and question what you don't understand or what you aretold (unless it's from them). That's what I did during school and I encourage you to do the same. When I did, I found that most people who arehostile towards God and Jesus Christ, are against it because they don't like what the Gospel and the Word of God says about them and how it makes themfeel.

One thing that a lot of people struggle with is the idea that a loving God could send someone to hell. This doesn't seem fair to us, we try to be a"good person" and live a good life. How could He do that? The truth is, the only thing that isn't fair is that Jesus Christ died for us. Hecame, fully God and fully man, and lived a perfect life on this earth. He upheld ALL of the old testament law (and we think we're good for prayingsometimes and going to church once in a while), he did nothing but good all His years, He was completely and utterly sinless. And He was persecuted and killedin the most gruesome and humiliating way possible. For us. He took on the sins of the world, and was crushed for our evil. THAT isn'tfair. But the fact is, Jesus arose and conquered sin AND death. And He is alive today. And He has made a way for us to get to God, by simply admittingwe're sinners and that we are broken and we need Him. This negates the question "how could God send someone to hell?" because the fact thatsinful wretches like us have ANY chance to be in fellowship with a perfect and Holy God and spend eternity with Him is more grace than we could ever imagine. "Why do I deserve this grace?" is a more appropriate question.

I hope you seek out the truth for yourself. Get in the Word. Pray for God to help your unbelief and to make Himself and His truth real to you. You will notgo unheard.

 

[kb8sandiego]

^
Bravo.

Excellent post.