Early Releases are High Quality Fakes

[1ix8vi]

No BS. This was def a good read...now, passing of b grades/variants/grey market whatever is NOT suitable or intended for retail. I personally would not purchase anything like that knowingly BUT that doesn't mean that it is sub-par from the quality that we see in our local stores.

 

[diplomat 1]

I've argued him already on the subject, its not the same thing. As I stated before Ewing athletics was a very unique situation. Their retail product wasn't even uniform that individual was basically running around doing whatever the hell he wanted to. If there is no uniformity to your retail product what is there to compare?



And Opinion? He dissected the shoe, he pointed out the differences, thats not opinion thats fact.
Different glues, different quality standards, unauthorized = fake. By your logic I could stitch and print up a bunch of Nike shirts in my house using the same materials for tags and same material for their shirts yet their still legit? **** fake is fake. I understand why people are arguing they shouldn't be considered fake but the fact of the matter is regardless of it being an ethical issue its also a consumer issue. Take one high quality "grey market" shoe and call it legit your saying all of them are legit and they aren't. They aren't held to specific quality standards and therefore the consumer doesn't know what their going to get and has no recourse when what they receive doesn't match the description. Then that person is hell bent on getting rid of them and puts them out in the market for some unsuspecting individual to be stuck with them. Support that all you want, I'll never roll with that.

I agree with that a 100%. Main thing is that area bolded. If i made something with the same materials at home..no matter how "close" it looks to the real item its NOT. Ish is fake no matter how close or how good the item looks.

 

[super23freak]

I've never bought any shoes that aren't straight from Nike or a retail outlet.

Do you really need your shoes 3 weeks in advance?

You're not Chris Paul.

So simply don't buy them.

 

[ninjahood]

Ninja just doesn't get it. He thinks that just because materials are the same that the shoe is the same. A lot of times the materials aren't the same. Sure, the patent leather is the same, the mesh upper, all that. But I think a lot of times like stitching, glues, etc....are not the same materials. Why is the stitching so sloppy all of the time. And in cases like the beige midsoles on the white cement 4s...what the hell is that? Ever seen a footlocker pair with beige midsoles? Nope. Ever seen anyone make a video about beige midsoles or see thru paper from a pair from footlocker? Nope. Sure, that airbag in the cool grey 11 video is a nike airbag...BUT THERE WAS NO AIR IN IT. It was a flat, uninflated airbag. The phylon midsole was so soft that it could be torn apart with your hands. THESE ARE FACTS. If you wanna call this kind of sloppy production "legit shoes"...then no one can really help you.

none of ya can refute that if da materials are da same that they're coming from legit sources...none of ya PERIOD.

ya arguments on da issue are weak, this is why da topic doesn't go away.

everyone seen da cool grey video, sloppy stitching? so what? i got HUNDREDS of examples horrible stitching straight from footlocker.

thats not a fake issue, thats a quality issue.

slappin "fake" on such a complexed issue is playing towards ignorance of da situation...everyone knows this except you apparently.

 

[thegamemodo9]

I can see by reading the posts that the letters t, h, and e work fine, but they apparently can't be put together. I want to read all the viewpoints, but I can't get past the "da" ********.

 

[ninjahood]

I've argued him already on the subject, its not the same thing. As I stated before Ewing athletics was a very unique situation. Their retail product wasn't even uniform that individual was basically running around doing whatever the hell he wanted to. If there is no uniformity to your retail product what is there to compare?



And Opinion? He dissected the shoe, he pointed out the differences, thats not opinion thats fact.
Different glues, different quality standards, unauthorized = fake. By your logic I could stitch and print up a bunch of Nike shirts in my house using the same materials for tags and same material for their shirts yet their still legit? **** fake is fake. I understand why people are arguing they shouldn't be considered fake but the fact of the matter is regardless of it being an ethical issue its also a consumer issue. Take one high quality "grey market" shoe and call it legit your saying all of them are legit and they aren't. They aren't held to specific quality standards and therefore the consumer doesn't know what their going to get and has no recourse when what they receive doesn't match the description. Then that person is hell bent on getting rid of them and puts them out in the market for some unsuspecting individual to be stuck with them. Support that all you want, I'll never roll with that.

I agree with that a 100%. Main thing is that area bolded. If i made something with the same materials at home..no matter how "close" it looks to the real item its NOT. Ish is fake no matter how close or how good the item looks.

NOT TRUE.

another weak argument goes down da toilet....

 

[apthekid]

Easily one of the best JB threads in a LOOOOONNNGGGGGG time.

A few small points...

For those that argue that if the shoe uses same materials/factories/processes etc, but not authorized by Nike, who cares...Isn't part of Jordan Brand the "brand value"? I mean, I think everyone will agree that we overpay for every pair of Jordans that we buy and none of them are truly worth the 200ish that we pay for them. But we do it because of the total package...the legacy of Michael Jordan...the ingenuity in Tinker's designs...the pop culture moments associated with certain shoes...etc (well most of us...some of yall clowns cop for other cornball reasons that i wont get into at the moment). Isn't that lost in buying grey markets (or at least diminished)?

For those that say the grey market pairs have better quality than the Nike pairs...stop it. Nike as a brand is so strong that they can sell flawed sneakers...Sad but true. So they do. If anyone bought a pair of Jordans from any of those early release sites and the jumpman was upside down, that retailer would get all kinds of heat...words would spread...no one would buy from them. Everyone would assume the retailer to sell fakes and it would be a wrap. You think these grey market runs don't have flawed shoes?? You're bugging...they just do a more thorough job of pulling the flawed pairs. In Nike's defense, it's much easier to thoroughly inspect a run of 20,000 pairs of shoes than it is to thoroughly inspect a run fo 200,000 pairs of shoes.

Also, not to get into too much detail, and I'm not backing Ninja nor Tre...But in the retail world, branding is what defines authenticity...

Most clothing retailers don't actually "make" their garments...they usually buy their garments pre-made from overseas "mils" and then alter said garment with some kind of branding. In theory, you could buy the same exact garment from the same exact mil...

If I bought a shirt from the same mil as say Banana Republic, took a tag out of an old Banana Republic shirt and sewed it into the shirt I bought from the mil...is that shirt an authentic Banana Republic shirt? I would argue no


And yes, I'm comparing clothing retailers to sneaker retailers...I'm pretty sure they're the same thing and fall in the same tax bracket, but I could be wrong on that.

Anyway, I hope this thread keeps going and I'd actually LOVE to hear the real Ewing Athletics story if anyone wants to just tell it...





...just sayin.

 

[ninjahood]

If I bought a shirt from the same mil as say Banana Republic, took a tag out of an old Banana Republic shirt and sewed it into the shirt I bought from the mil...is that shirt an authentic Banana Republic shirt? I would argue no

terrible logic.

 

[ninjahood]

With the arguing out of the way. Can someone please tell me how to order these through thier site? I can't read Chinese. I don't care if they are fake, b grade, variant, etc. If I can get these for a couple hundo, I'm pulling the trigger.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=..._3k2_1021883756&spm=a230z.1.5634029.73.Mt46h1

youtube "how to get a taobao agent"

 

[eja219]

Been reading mostly all the posts I can on this subject matter and a lot of you make valid knowledgeable points. I'm stll fairly new to tryna figure out the fakes from the real. With this being said, is a site like sneakerpost.com or sneakerhead.com selling real shoes? I've ordered from them before and pretty much determined that they were real especially sneakerpost. I got some 11 breds from sneakerpost and I won the raffle for finish line so I bought 2 and they looked and felt the same to me as far as quality go. They sell shoes early but its usually only maybe a week early or 3 days early. Please help

 

[diplomat 1]

If I bought a shirt from the same mil as say Banana Republic, took a tag out of an old Banana Republic shirt and sewed it into the shirt I bought from the mil...is that shirt an authentic Banana Republic shirt? I would argue no
 

Thats my point exactly i dont understand when people compare other shoes to 100% authentic shoes. I believe b grades are authentic because its from the manufacture but not up to par with the other ones. I agree with that but to say stuff other people make and say that is considered authentic is bs. IMO people that support that idea is the people that buy from places like taobao or whatever its called.(BTW im not familiar with all the ewing story or alot of this stuff just putting my 2 cents in)

 

[apthekid]

terrible logic.

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't understand what the pictures are telling me...

Same shirt, different branding, but one is hundreds more than the other? That would kind of prove my point..You wouldn't say that $35.99 shirt is a "Pyrex" shirt...even though it actually is the same shirt...

 

[primetime]

I would never pay over retail to have a shoe a few months in advance.. even if they could be proven 100% authentic. So I saw this thread before but never really bothered to read the whole thing. That said, there was some interesting stuff posted here and I have to admit, I was kind of on the fence about the whole thing until I watched this video -

Sure, a lot of the materials are the same but there also seems to be quite a bit of cheaper materials mixed in with the legit stuff. That, to me, doesn't make an authentic shoe. Add in the fact that the construction is just plain TERRIBLE (the dude straight ripped the shoe apart ), I'm not sure how anyone can argue that these can be compared to the real thing. To the person saying that JB puts out bad quality products - the guy in the video even admits that. And yes, we find glue stains and slight defects on some of our retros from time to time, but nothing to the extent of those XI's. I'm sure there are better quality "grey market" shoes than that out there, but I would imagine that you could still find plenty of things wrong with them when compared to the real deal.

 

[eltouha]

Same factory, same materials, same workers, and quality that could pass inspection then it is real. Nike seal of approval doesn't mean ****. You guys have seen pics of Jordans with upside down jumpmans, toe boxes that point the same way, glue all over the upper, stressed out nubuck material, etc. Unauthorized pairs have better quality than the **** we've seen pass through Nike QC. The quality will be at least as good as anything you find in stores. Obviously Nike doesn't care about their seal of approval so I don't either. Unauthorized is not fake. Obviously Nike would say that it is for the sheep that eat that **** up.

Now how often do you see coke mess up on something with their seal of approval? If coke treated their seal of approval like Nike does we'd all be poisoned by now. Thus the coke seal of approval is something you should take seriously. If they had Nike quality control issues then their seal of approval would not matter.

That is all I am saying on this matter.
Goodbye
Unsub.

Truth.

 

[eltouha]

With the arguing out of the way. Can someone please tell me how to order these through thier site? I can't read Chinese. I don't care if they are fake, b grade, variant, etc. If I can get these for a couple hundo, I'm pulling the trigger.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=..._3k2_1021883756&spm=a230z.1.5634029.73.Mt46h1

Dude those are still about 400-500 after conversion.

 

[ninjahood]

terrible logic.

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't understand what the pictures are telling me...

Same shirt, different branding, but one is hundreds more than the other? That would kind of prove my point..You wouldn't say that $35.99 shirt is a "Pyrex" shirt...even though it actually is the same shirt...

you wouldn't call it a fake polo shirt either even though

ralph lauren didn't authorized pyrex to basically vandalize their products and sell it as their own.

 

[apthekid]

you wouldn't call it a fake polo shirt either even though

ralph lauren didn't authorized pyrex to basically vandalize their products and sell it as their own.

Sure they did! It happens in every industry. Some things you can patent, some things you cannot. For successful designs that are not able to be patented, they are ALWAYS imitated by competitors.

Aren't there Filas with cement print? (or maybe they're Fubu's...)

Didn't Adidas make a Flynight comparable that went to court and all that?

I'm sure there's PLENTY of other examples...But that's kind of my point...the authenticity lays in the branding, not the actual "raw" product.

 

[trethousandgt]

none of ya can refute that if da materials are da same that they're coming from legit sources...none of ya PERIOD.

ya arguments on da issue are weak, this is why da topic doesn't go away.

everyone seen da cool grey video, sloppy stitching? so what? i got HUNDREDS of examples horrible stitching straight from footlocker.

thats not a fake issue, thats a quality issue.

slappin "fake" on such a complexed issue is playing towards ignorance of da situation...everyone knows this except you apparently.

The arguments are weak?


Its not a complex issue, their fake.

I guess you didn't watch that video.
#1 The HEIGHT OF THE SHOE was different,
#2the glue used to put it together was different (which btw you don't even know if that **** isn't some banned glue that may or may not have lead and therefore be harmful to your health),
#3the sizing is usually off
#4the insoles on the grey market pair were not the same as the retail product (they were thinner),
#5the placement of the patent leather was different,
#6 It had no air unit in it, the damn thing was FLAT or as nightwing described "a hollowed out piece of plastic."



Yea, that sounds like a weak argument SMFH

 

[ninjahood]

you wouldn't call it a fake polo shirt either even though

ralph lauren didn't authorized pyrex to basically vandalize their products and sell it as their own.

Sure they did! It happens in every industry. Some things you can patent, some things you cannot. For successful designs that are not able to be patented, they are ALWAYS imitated by competitors.

Aren't there Filas with cement print? (or maybe they're Fubu's...)

Didn't Adidas make a Flynight comparable that went to court and all that?

I'm sure there's PLENTY of other examples...But that's kind of my point...the authenticity lays in the branding, not the actual "raw" product.

not true.

plenty of fakes carry da "branding" of authentic counterparts, what makes da product legit is actual materials they use and where it

was made at. these grey market pairs are being made with within da same factories with da same material. da PROBLEM is they

aren't obeying da traditional distribution channels and are being funneled out da back or however its being done.

so like i said, if you have a problem with da ethical ways these are being made outside da consent of nike then thats a conversation

im more then willing to have, but if you're still thinking that because nike didn't green light  "X amount" of extra jordans from factory ___

then you can call these fake at all.

if you look at what it takes to make carbon fiber parts ALONE you would know bootleggers down have that kind of sophistication, hence

why there ISNT fake foamposites OR jordans with real carbon fiber.

 

[eltouha]

they're/their/there. learn these, it'll only do you good.

keep saying they are fake all you want, repeating this nonsense makes the claim not any more substantial or factual.

give it up, ninjahood. you know how stubborn and proud these kids are. it's obvious to you and i that anyone making these rubbish issues are more interested in crap like "shoe value". those of us who genuinely give a damn about the kicks, and use them primarily for wearing, know this nike approval biz is completely inconsequential.

 

[trethousandgt]

NOT TRUE.

another weak argument goes down da toilet....

You really think your debating with some fools

Your comparing custom one off pieces of a guy that has ACTUALLY gone on to collab with Nike to MASS PRODUCED GREY MARKET SHOES AKA FAKES That are misrepresented as the real deal? What a #$%^&@$ Joke.

 

[eltouha]

your/you're

fools, indeed.

 

[trethousandgt]

they're/their/there. learn these, it'll only do you good.

keep saying they are fake all you want, repeating this nonsense makes the claim not any more substantial or factual.

give it up, ninjahood. you know how stubborn and proud these kids are. it's obvious to you and i that anyone making these rubbish issues are more interested in crap like "shoe value". those of us who genuinely give a damn about the kicks, and use them primarily for wearing, know this nike approval biz is completely inconsequential.

@these kids


I guess these geniuses are to busy ranting about how real their fake shoes are to actually take time out and watch that nightwing video. SOME of the materials are the same NOT ALL.

 

[trethousandgt]

your/you're

fools, indeed.

Good comeback, that certainly proves your argument

Did it ever occur to you I might be on a cell phone and the thing has a prefill Guess not

 

[italipino23]

Intetesting how ninja won't address the flat air bag intthe cool grey 11s. Lolololololol