E3 2013 (June 11-13) Let the Next Gen Wars BEGIN

[RustyShackleford]

MS could still use this generation as a intermediate step towards a always online future. They had a lot of good ideas.

 

[carver]

Microsoft’s Major Nelson said in an interview recently that Sony’s PS4 console isn’t going to make them change anything about their Xbox One system.

Do one more good thing MS, fire this man.

dem preorder numbers changed something with their XBOX one

 

[bigrockford]

I don't think they should have changed anything. I am a PS3 fan by far over the 360, but with all of the flack the XBO was catching, I was about to change sides. They should of stuck with their initial plan. They should at least keep the DRM on their games to show what a difference it could make for developers. I have never seen such a big fit over keeping Gamestop in business. That money should go to developers, not that huge leach on the gaming community called Gamestop.

 

[blackboyfly]

THE XBOX ONE JUST GOT WAY WORSE, AND IT'S OUR FAULT


Microsoft just announced  that its much-maligned DRM policies won't look at all like they originally had originally been described. They're going to more relaxed, sort of like the PS3's. Good news, you say? No. Bad news. The Xbox One just got worse.



But what? Isn't all DRM bad and anti-consumer? No. Often it is, sure. If applied in the ways that gaming culture has been anxious about for the past few weeks, it would be disastrous. But that's not what was really at stake. This was:

These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

That SUCKS.


[h3]THE VISION[/h3]


Here was the simple vision of the Xbox One, selling and reselling games:

• Every game you bought, physical or digital, would be tied to your account. This would eliminate current-gen problems like buying a disc, and then being unable to store it or download it from the cloud.
• Because every single game, physical or digital, would be tied to an account, publishers could create a hub to sell and resell the games digitally. Let's refer to these as "licenses" from here, even though it's a loaded term.
• Because reselling games would now work through a hub, publishers could make money on resold games.
• Here is how this makes sense for YOU: New games could then be cheaper. Why? Publishers KNOW that they will not make money on resold games, so they charge more to you, the first buyer. You are paying for others' rights to use your game in the future. If the old system had gone into place, you would likely have seen game prices drop.
• You also would have started getting a better return on your "used" games—because a license does not have to be resold at a diminished rate.
• How do you know that this would have been the case? Because that's exactly what happens on Steam. But wait!, you shout. Steam is CHEAP cheap, and it has crazy sales. We love Steam! Micro$oft is nothing like that. Well, no, it isn't now, but Steam was once $team, too. It was not always popular, and its licensing model was once heavily maligned. Given time, though, it's now the only way almost every PC gamer wants to play games.
• Sharing games  would have worked either by activating your Live account on someone else's Xbox One, or by including them in your 10-person share plan, which would not have been limited to "family.". Details on that had been scarse, but even the strictest limitations (one other person playing any of the shared games from your account) would have been a HUGE improvement over the none that we have now. We don't get that now.
• The 24-hour check-in would have been necessary for the X1's store, which it is not for Steam, because the physical product (game discs) would still be available. This check-in, literally bytes of data exchanged, would confirm that the games installed were not gaming the system in a convoluted install-here-and-then-go-offline-and-I'll-go-home-and-check-in-and-go-offline-too-and-we'll-both-use-the-game methods.

You would also, as it happens, have been able to share and resell your digitally purchased games. That's a REALLY BIG DEAL. We won't be able to do that now, though. We still have to use the disc for games we buy physically. This is the loss of some of the most future-facing features of the system, things that changed and challenged the traditional limitations of console gaming. We are literally standing in stasis, refusing to move forward, at the behest of those who are loudest and not ready for the future.


[h3]THE DRM BOOGEY MAN IS SO LAST DECADE[/h3]


More than anything, the outcry over the Xbox One was a reaction to buzzwords that are easy to distance ourselves from. "Censorship," "retcon," "person who disagrees with Joss Whedon." DRM is right there with any of those for Microsoft's core gaming audience.



The real fear behind DRM on games is the idea that at some point in the future, you'll be told that you are no longer allowed to use the content you'e paid for. It's that you're "allowed" to use anything at all, instead of outright "owning" it. And in the past, ****** DRM has absolutely worked like that. Walmart MP3s and the like have taken their servers offline, stranding file formats and leaving them to die, forgotten.



That is not how DRM, by and large, works today. There is very little risk of any particular format dying off. The dangers, as such, lie in a dropoff of support, or at worst, confiscation. That for whatever reason, Microsoft would tell us to screw ourselves and stop supporting Xbox One games, or kick you, specifically, out.



Fair enough. But compare that to the benefits of DRM. It helps build an ecosystem that is easy and convenient and, most of all, affordable  enough to draw customers. That's what Apple did with iTunes and music, and it's what Amazon did with books. The content was just too easy to get and too cheap to bother with pirating it. We could have had that with the Xbox One and games.



Here's a video game example of effective DRM in practice: World of Warcraft, more or less the most popular game of the past decade. WoW, a Massively Multiplayer RPG by Blizzard, is played entirely online—always online, even. Your account is not your property, Blizzard can ban it, or remove items from it at its pleasure. Everything is within its right.



And yet, all Blizzard does is run customer support to users who have been hacked (oh, so many are hacked) or who accidentally deleted something or any number of other problems for their accounts. They were even years ahead of the two-factor authentication push, basically giving away authenticators at a loss, with in-game bonuses, just to keep customers from being hacked. Because Blizzard knows that its whole job is keeping its customers coming back for more. And it works. And no one complains.


[h3]OUR CAPACITY[/h3]


Today's news proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the internet has a voice. You're heard, and you can effect change in the things that you care about deeply. It's oddly fitting that the news comes as fan-saved Futurama gets ready to go off the air again. But today also proves how widely that nerd-influence can swing an entire generation of hardware, based solely on the whims of internet jokes based on information that isn't even accurate, and tinfoil fears about worst-case scenarios.



Cheaper games. Easier sharing. The end of discs. The Xbox One would have been just fine despite the chorus of haters, would have been a better system for ignoring them.  Microsoft losing its nerve on this isn't just disappointing for the features we lose. It's unfortunate because it shows just how heavy an anchor we can be.

 

 

[RustyShackleford]

Microsoft’s Major Nelson said in an interview recently that Sony’s PS4 console isn’t going to make them change anything about their Xbox One system.

Do one more good thing MS, fire this man.

Why? They gave him is talking points and he did his job. How they hell could he predict that management would do a 180.

 

[deleted]

I said more level playing field, not totally level.

The PS4 obviously still has the advantage with the lower price point and more impression specs, but the One just put itself back in the fight.

Thanks for giving validation to my powers of perception though.

 

[Bad Religion]

Why? It doesnt effect what Playstation offers.

If you are mad another company came to their senses because it might cause more parity, you're an idiot. Straight up.

Ideal situation is a 33% console market share between all three. As a consumer, these companies will all be fighting as hard as they can for your dollars. THAT is what we should all be hoping for.

 

[blakep267]

MS lost their nerve. Eventually, people would get on the boat. At least imo

 

[thehealthinspector]

MS lost their nerve. Eventually, people would get on the boat. At least imo

that amazon poll and those amazon listings of ps4 dominating made them come to their senses

 

[deleted]

This does seem like a weak move, but you have to remember that their primary interest is to sell consoles.

Judging by that Amazon poll, they weren't going to be doing a very good job at that when compared to Sony.

 

[blakep267]

MS lost their nerve. Eventually, people would get on the boat. At least imo

that amazon poll and those amazon listings of ps4 dominating made them come to their senses

but the thing is, its not a 30 second race. If they are in it for the 8-10 year race, they shouldnt have gotten so flustered over pre-order numbers. Come holiday season, the stores were gonna be sold out regardless

 

[sole vintage]

Why? They gave him is talking points and he did his job. How they hell could he predict that management would do a 180.

He works for us and MS, basically the community manager. His job is to inform us about the policies,features and inquire with management about certain questions the community has. The last couple of months he hasn't been doing that, he has been coming off like an *** in interviews or not sure how some things are going to work. If you don't know just say i cant speak about that now its that simple, but no lets take a jab at the competition while i have on clue what is going on in my camp.

 

[thehealthinspector]

and after that initial sell out?

who's going to pay $500 with all those restrictions after the hardcore buy day 1?

 

[blakep267]

and after that initial sell out?

who's going to pay $500 with all those restrictions after the hardcore buy day 1?

you could say that for both systems. Who besides the hardcore are going to buy until those killer apps start coming out

edit: initially read your post wrong

 

[ssjjfar]

but the thing is, its not a 30 second race. If they are in it for the 8-10 year race, they shouldnt have gotten so flustered over pre-order numbers. Come holiday season, the stores were gonna be sold out regardless

Agreed at 8-10 year race, but it selling out is just relative to how many units they make. They would rather make 5 million units and have it sell out then make a million unit and have it sell out.

Those are random numbers not what I think they will/want to make/sell.

 

[blakep267]

but the thing is, its not a 30 second race. If they are in it for the 8-10 year race, they shouldnt have gotten so flustered over pre-order numbers. Come holiday season, the stores were gonna be sold out regardless

Agreed at 8-10 year race, but it selling out is just relative to how many units they make. They would rather make 5 million units and have it sell out then make a million unit and have it sell out.

Those are random numbers not what I think they will/want to make/sell.

I was trying to say that, like I dont think come holiday season, we would see shelves and shelves of unsold XB1's sitting, while sony is empty.

I just think they folded too easily. Like did they not have faith in Halo or titanfall or any of their exclusives /sharing plan as console sellers?

 

[sole vintage]

MS are not ruling out the possibility they will revert back to the original plans for DRM and 24 hour check in the future.

 

[carver]

MS are not ruling out the possibility they will revert back to the original plans for DRM and 24 hour check in the future.

They trying to get people on their console then hit them with a surprise later?

 

[RustyShackleford]

MS are not ruling out the possibility they will revert back to the original plans for DRM and 24 hour check in the future.

All companies say stuff like that. Avoids a second PR nightmare

 

[blakep267]

MS are not ruling out the possibility they will revert back to the original plans for DRM and 24 hour check in the future.

They trying to get people on their console then hit them with a surprise later?

they would do it later when most games require cloud computing anyway. Like Watchdogs uses it in the backgroud. So does NFS

 

[concordflightxi]

Wow people really love to complain. Now that Msft rescinded the DRM stuff, it's actually a bad idea now? C'mon we didn't know the extent of the Family share. But we do know is how hard it is to coordinate trying to play a game between 10 people. "Yo bro get off Halo, I'm tryin to play right now"

 

[mitchellicious]

MS are not ruling out the possibility they will revert back to the original plans for DRM and 24 hour check in the future.

They trying to get people on their console then hit them with a surprise later?

That would be hilarious

 

[RustyShackleford]

Now cut the price $50, introduce the subiszed model next spring, bring back the online features in a new improve optional variety, and Titanfall will do the rest.

We back in the fight, Xbots, we back in it.

THANK YOU BASED DON, THANK YOU

 

[Fresh Like Will]

DRM has nothing to do with it. The PS3 had game sharing without DRM. People were sharing full games they bought digitally off of the PS Store. You were able to download purchased content on 5 different devices. All 5 people could play the game at any time they wanted, even at same time. No need to add anyone to a friends or "family" list. No 10 day or online requirement.

Microsoft had a limit to two people playing at once and the DRM checks. Sony had to limit the digital content to two different devices because people were exploiting it and getting free games by sharing with their friends. We never actually saw the Xbox One's game sharing in practice. I doubt game publishers would be OK with Microsoft letting players share their games 10 times without heavy restrictions because if it were unrestricted and 10 people could share one game, that could equal a lot of lost money for them. It all sounds cool until you run into the issue of wanting to play this shared game that is already being played to capacity.

You have to be a moron to take that diagram of lending used games on X1 and PS4 seriously. No one is going to FedEx a game. People lend games to people they know and contact in close proximity. I've lent and borrowed a lot of PS3 and 360 games. Got a couple used. If I've played a game thoroughly and beat it a couple times and I'm not playing it, and someone I know mentions it, I lend it to them. I don't lend games I'm still playing. I'm not going to inconvenience myself. Used games are still a billion dollar industry. Some people keep all their games, even if they never play them again, but others trade them in. It's a huge deal for most people.

I always felt like the game sharing on the X1 was a distraction from the restrictions. If I buy a $60 game, I should be able to sell, lend, or trade it to my hearts content. As a kid, used games and renting games was the only way I could play different games on a regular basis. Unless the game sharing was entirely nonrestrictive and those 10 people could play whenever they wanted, this is good news for the X1.

 

[ssjjfar]

DRM has nothing to do with it. The PS3 had game sharing without DRM. People were sharing full games they bought digitally off of the PS Store. You were able to download purchased content on 5 different devices. All 5 people could play the game at any time they wanted, even at same time. No need to add anyone to a friends or "family" list. No 10 day or online requirement.

Microsoft had a limit to two people playing at once and the DRM checks. Sony had to limit the digital content to two different devices because people were exploiting it and getting free games by sharing with their friends. We never actually saw the Xbox One's game sharing in practice. I doubt game publishers would be OK with Microsoft letting players share their games 10 times without heavy restrictions because if it were unrestricted and 10 people could share one game, that could equal a lot of lost money for them. It all sounds cool until you run into the issue of wanting to play this shared game that is already being played to capacity.

You have to be a moron to take that diagram of lending used games on X1 and PS4 seriously. No one is going to FedEx a game. People lend games to people they know and contact in close proximity. I've lent and borrowed a lot of PS3 and 360 games. Got a couple used. If I've played a game thoroughly and beat it a couple times and I'm not playing it, and someone I know mentions it, I lend it to them. I don't lend games I'm still playing. I'm not going to inconvenience myself. Used games are still a billion dollar industry. Some people keep all their games, even if they never play them again, but others trade them in. It's a huge deal for most people.

I always felt like the game sharing on the X1 was a distraction from the restrictions. If I buy a $60 game, I should be able to sell, lend, or trade it to my hearts content. As a kid, used games and renting games was the only way I could play different games on a regular basis. Unless the game sharing was entirely nonrestrictive and those 10 people could play whenever they wanted, this is good news for the X1.

Yeah the chances of other developers adopting the shared plan were slim. You most likely would only be able to share games like Halo, Forza, Ryze and ect. not popular ones like Call of Duty/Battlefield, Madden or Watch Dogs.

That fedex diagram was ******ed, because they implied that PS4 would remove the sharing feature that PS3 has. And at the time, the whole sharing disc was gone, and it was only sharing digital. Now that's all scrapped anyways,.