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[kalikid23]

I thought id just throw this out there but.....

What do you guys think of Lamarcus Aldridge?

What are the chances we can work out a deal that includes Gasol and some pieces for him?

 

[menacin methods]

Did Ska just...compliment Bryant?
Whoa whoa whoa too much to handle...

man did this dude just do this?

 

[mjgreatxii]

I thought id just throw this out there but.....

What do you guys think of Lamarcus Aldridge?

What are the chances we can work out a deal that includes Gasol and some pieces for him?

Not a chance. they'll never trade him.

 

[al3xis]

Pau coming off the bench was sooooooo funny that Mike decided to play a prank.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="badboyf0life420"]Lmao that was cold what he said about McGrady![/quote]He really did just take Tmac's soul, though.

 

[menacin methods]

I thought id just throw this out there but.....

What do you guys think of Lamarcus Aldridge?

What are the chances we can work out a deal that includes Gasol and some pieces for him?

Not a chance. they'll never trade him.

Agreed

Blazers would never do a trade with the Lakers

Blazers organization and fans still recovering from game 7

 

[CP1708]

Where DOES Pierce stack up on the Celtics' stats list? Because that's no slouch franchise, either. And he has done what he has done with far less talent than what Kobe has had.

Kobe's intense work ethic and attention to detail are the only things that separate him from those other guys in my opinion. and because of his commitment to those 2 things, he deserves all the praise he gets for the individual numbers he has racked up.

Pierce is at 23K+ right now. Say he ends season at 24K
6,500 rebounds at years end (or so)
41-4,200 assists give or take.
1,800 3's
1,550 steals

I don't know what he has left. A year? 2? Maybe. He's already entered into his Ray Allen, Reggie Miller type time, he'll have a ginourmous flashback game, and then a string of meh games.

His per games are 22, 6 and 4.

If he plays for a while still, he might get 25K, 7K rebs, and 4,500 assists. Maybe a nudge more if he plays til he's 38 or something like that.


As for the Celtics, clearly a top tier franchise. Them and us, neck and neck, no doubt. But player wise, it's not that close imo. (certainly a Celtic fan may disagree with me, but here's the lists)

Bill Russ, obvious
Bird, duh

But after that......
Cowens
Parrish
McHale
Cousy
Havlicek
Sam Jones
KC Jones
Ced Maxwell
Dennis Johnson


Look at those names. Real good players. Solid

Now......

Kareem
Magic
Shaq
West
Baylor
Worthy

Even if I gave Boston KG and Rondo, then I can add Wilt, and Pau to the Lakers as they've all had 5-6 years on the teams. Everyone else is more of a decade + type of timeline.

So, other than Russ and Bird, which of those Celtics would surpass a single one of the top all time Lakers? So in a sense, Pierce being near the top of the franchise in stats is nice, surely, but not as impressive as leading that group of Lakers which NO ONE is touching. The entire rest of the NBA would struggle to find a 8-10 deep lineup of players that could match the Laker group.

But matching up the all time Celtics would be a LOT easier.

So, up to you. If you think I am just being a Laker hack, maybe you would be right, but I'm fairly sure of myself in this regard, top 25-30 all time players are LITTERED with Laker greats. Celtics have 2 of the top 30 or so. Maybe 3 if you include Havlicek. Probably 3, I'll include him.

 

[darthska]

No, no... I'm with you.

But that's what I'm saying: what if? I give credit to Kobe for his work ethic and commitment to excellence (not like the Raiders, but an actual commitment ), but the circumstantial stuff, he doesn't deserve credit for that.

Sure, someone was the 2 guard for those championships, and it was him, but he didn't 'earn' Shaq. There was no amount of weight room exercise that willed Pau and Bynum over. There was no magic number of crunches he could do that made Ariza frustrate opponenets or made Horry hit shots.

And if there were, maybe Pierce would have done more crunches. Maybe Pierce would have tried to 'earn' Shaq... well, the real Shaq, not the Shaq he did earn.

Kobe's numbers, those are his. That's what individual numbers are for. You know why you can't just pin his assist numbers on the fortune of his teammates? Because Kobe still had to work his *** off to stay in the league long enough to be a starter and rack up those assists. His rebound numbers? That's hard work; all Kobe. Obviously the scoring is all Kobe... and I'll just leave that one alone and move on with what I'm saying.

And what I'm saying is that I personally hate when people try to credit Kobe for stuff that he didn't earn, didn't work for, was a part of but didn't gain as a result of who he is.

I'm sure Pierce lays his head at night and wishes he could have played with Shaq during Shaq's best years, then Pau and Bynum a few years later, sprinkled in with some Caron and Odom along the way. Paul Pierce, I don't care what anyone says, is a great talent. Two Finals and one championship because he is a great talent and FINALLY got some help along the lines of other championship rosters.

Kobe? Great talent. But the reason he has a handful of rings instead of just one is because he is a great talent who has played with other great talents HIS WHOLE CAREER. People want to act like his awesomeness alone has netted those 5 rings as he hooped alongside Penberthy and Kwame the whole way.

Yes, he will be missed dearly (by you guys) when he is gone, but I don't get why he is so protected, like he ever dug us out of the trenches, brought us from the brink of irrelevance (AS A WHOLE, not just single game examples).

It NEVER happened. He has maintained a high level of productivity while being part of our success, but he has never been the fuel to our success. Not in this fan's eyes, anyways. And apparently, I will never be convinced otherwise. I mean, LOOK AT US. We're 17-21, hoping the teams above us LOSE so we can make the playoffs!

I know, I know... 'team game'.

'Injuries'.

'Coaching situation.'

But when we win?

"MAAAAMBAAA!!!!!! Mama, there goes that maaaannn!!!!"

I don't... I just... *shrugs* :\

 

[tonelow]

I'm just gonna act like I never read that.

 

[denni5themenace]

uh oh

 

[darthska]

Well if your response is anything along the lines of why I just slammed Kobe or disrespected him or how I could say he sucks or he's terrible, then it's probably best you do pretend you didn't just read that.

That's one of the most frustrating things to me; when someone thinks my refusal to give him all the credit in the world means that I'm giving him no credit at all. :\

 

[CP1708]

Certainly a lot of what you say is true, but there is also a lot more that goes along with it.

You tried to give Pierce credit for his one title and 2 Finals trips, but he was in fact GIFTED 2 other franchise players, while they developed another (Rondo)

So it ain't like Paul did something that Kobe never did.

Kobe did have Shaq, and it was great, Shaq also was extremely bored and lazy after he got his 3 rings, they fought over the 4th and it cost us, and by that time his peak had come and gone. Maybe we could have gone for one last chance, gotten them a 4th ring together, but it would have only delayed what would one day come, a rebuild around Kobe.

Kobe did in fact play on a complete rebuild team. He and Lamar, played with kids in Farmar, Bynum, Sasha, Walton, etc. They brought back Fish, then they made the move for Ariza, and of course the big move for Pau. But that entire core was kids til that point came. And it was centered around Kobe this time. He kept the Lakers relevant. And I'm fairly sure that when you see young guys come in, and they watch and see what Kobe does on a day to day basis, you don't think that rubs off? Ariza plays his best ever, in LA. Random? Farmar, best game in LA, coicidence? Sasha in 08 was freaking money, and I still don't even know how it was possible. Bynum worked hard on his game while there, and we know DAMN WELL that kid is lazy as hell. He ain't do a damn thing since he got traded. Shannon Brown's best time, in LA. Ron flat out said I want to come play with Kobe. So did Barnes. Wanna get real deep? Best I ever seen Kwame play was in LA, and he still sucked. Hell, Smush's best NBA days were when?

You think there is NO effect, watching THEE main star of the team, work his nuts off EVERY day, year round, and that has NO impact on the club?

One other key piece. Broken hand, torn shoulder, bad finger 1, bad pinkie 2, wrist, knee, ankle, concussion, nose. Barely misses any time. You have to FORCE him to sit down. Guy was in COURT, and would fly to the game to hit game winners. I ask you, you see a LOT of other NBAers, ever, do all that? MJ certainly worked hard like that, flu games and such. But know many others? These weren't bruised shins Ska, these were INJURIES. Not ailments. Not Steph Curry's ankles that cause him to miss months, he plays anyway.

Dude tore ligaments in his SHOOTING HAND, came out and dropped 40, on the road, against the Bulls. That's ******g stupid. 98% of the NBA couldn't get 40 on a given night on the road with pristine health. Kobe destroyed a finger, adjusted his shot, I say again, adjusted his shot, and put in 40. Ray Allen has shot the same exact shot 90 million times. Ask him to move his fingers different on the ball, see how he shoots.


I get why you don't like him. Certainly do. But comin up on TWENTY years damn near, every, single, night, Kobe is out there. Pau got a concussion, ain't seen him in a week. Kobe got one, played the next game. Pau had a sore knee, missed 7 games. Kobe flew across the world, spent his own money, and tried some crazy **** to get his knee better. Drew do that? Shaq?

But yeah, all them other NBA stars that lasted 5-6-7 years, they were better than Kob, they just didn't have Shaq or Pau. Sure.

 

[CP1708]

Well if your response is anything along the lines of why I just slammed Kobe or disrespected him or how I could say he sucks or he's terrible, then it's probably best you do pretend you didn't just read that.

That's one of the most frustrating things to me; when someone thinks my refusal to give him all the credit in the world means that I'm giving him no credit at all. :\

My response in no way means to discredit your views, just so I am clear. I'm not like the others.

 

[mjgreatxii]

Well if your response is anything along the lines of why I just slammed Kobe or disrespected him or how I could say he sucks or he's terrible, then it's probably best you do pretend you didn't just read that.

That's one of the most frustrating things to me; when someone thinks my refusal to give him all the credit in the world means that I'm giving him no credit at all. :\

'
Thats how i took it


agree with cp

 

[darthska]

[quote name="MJGREATXII"]
'
Thats how i took it


agree with cp[/quote]All or nothing thinking is bad for your health (literally; causes you stress and all kinds of fun stuff).

 

[darthska]

CP: you honestly think the success of those dudes is because of Kobe?

Just Kobe?

 

[mjgreatxii]

All or nothing thinking is bad for your health (literally; causes you stress and all kinds of fun stuff).

Probably why i see a counselor once a week

 

[CP1708]

I never said just Kobe.

Interesting Phil raised 2 single minded assassins after their initial coaches failed tho. Surely a coincidence.

 

[darthska]

That's what I'm talking about, man. This dude's career is the very definition of Silver PLATINUM Platter.

I mentioned Shaq and Pau and Bynum and Horry and Ariza... as if the wonderful talent of his teammates is all he has been gifted w/ this whole time. Dude played w/ THE GREATEST COACH EVER, and I completely left that out.

Pierce finally gets a couple high caliber teammates and a decent coach, and... ? Bam, 2 Finals, 1 ring.

How is this not clear as day to everyone? I don't understand. People want to build an argument that other talents along Kobe's level have had equally talented teammates and coaches... and it's simply not true. People want to build the argument that Kobe has had to suffer as much as his peers, and it's just... no, man.

I.

Clearly.

Don't understand.

The need for those arguments.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="CP"]I never said just Kobe.

Interesting Phil raised 2 single minded assassins after their initial coaches failed tho. Surely a coincidence.[/quote]That's as much a credit to Phil as it is to MJ/Kobe.

You can't leave the keys to a Ferrari in the hands of a mental ****** and expect great things; actually, you should expect terrible things. MJ and Kobe are Ferraris.

And you can't expect a great mind to turn dust bunnies and a couple marbles into the Sistine Chapel. Phil is an absolute great mind, and he knows how to handle a Ferrari (or 2).

But that has nothing to do w/ what I was getting at. Them role-playing dudes, they're not Ferraris. But the reason for their success... well, if it was Kobe, then why are we 17-21 right now? We still have Kobe.

No Phil, though.

 

[CP1708]

You believe that Paul has the raw talent/Skills Kobe does? Game wise. Pick a number, if Kobe's a ___ what number is Pierce, iyo.

 

[tonelow]

Ok...so what are you trying to say? That you need a complete team to win? That you need at least 2 stars and a great coach?

You're doing the same thing that his blind supporters (which I dont see a lot of on here) are doing, just in reverse.

Ive blamed Kobe for a lot of our problems this here, plenty of others have done the same. Bad shot selection, turnovers, horrible and apathetic defense and so on, but there's absolutely no way I would even think to put him and Paul Pierce in the same. Sentence. Couldnt even do it there.

Im legit disgusted with you right now.

 

[darthska]

Hell no.

Zero being Kwame (I really, REALLY didn't like that dude ) and 100 being... ummmmm... Magic smokin)... ON JUST THE SKILL OF THE GAME OF BASKETBALL... not personality or accomplishments or swagger or interview skills or whatever else... JUST BOUNCING A BALL AND PASSING IT AND PUTTING IN A NYLON NET AND WHAT NOT...

I'd go... maybe... Kobe around... like a... hmmmm... somewhere in the upper 80s/low 90s. Yeah, that feels right in my mind. The ONLY flaw I can give for his size and skill set is that HE SHOOTS SO G.D. MUCH. But... that's what he is, a volume shooter. MJ ushered in a swarm of volume shooters, and Kobe was/is better than all of them.

Pierce? Ummmmm... let's see... I'd go... like a... upper 70s/low 80s. Mostly low 80s. He don't bang down low often enough to be higher, doesn't run the offense enough to be higher, can't play as fast as an upper 80s/low 90s grade player can.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Hol' up ska is saying Kobe wouldn't be who he is if he didn't work as hard. You can say that about any all-time great athlete.


And why is Pierce being brought up? I know dude is smarter than that.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="Maximus Meridius"]And why is Pierce being brought up? I know dude is smarter than that. [/quote]Which dude? Me... or CP?[quote name="CP]Crazy to see where he finishes up with all these totals in a couple years. Course, he's no better than Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd, Ray Allen, Jerry Stackhouse, Grant Hill, Vince, Tracy, AI, etc etc etc etc etc. All those guys could do the work he's done, obviously.[/quote]