Charles Darwin film 'too controversial for religious America.'

[oo206oo]

lobotomybeats wrote: Religion begs you to accept the unseen and unbelievable in the name of faith. Ironically, Religion also begs you to not believe in science due to a lack of 100% checkable facts.

I never thought about it like that. Thats a damn good point.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by oo206oo

lobotomybeats wrote: Religion begs you to accept the unseen and unbelievable in the name of faith. Ironically, Religion also begs you to not believe in science due to a lack of 100% checkable facts.

I never thought about it like that. Thats a damn good point.


Yup - which again is why trying to have a logical discussion about religion just makes no sense... this basic premise alone proves the illogicality of it all.

That being said - if somebody can simply say to you that they have thoroughly considered the alternatives to their beliefs and still feel it within themselvesto be true, I can't be mad at them for that much.

I just get the impression that most people who tell you they've really challenged themselves to seek out the alternatives haven't really done !@%+ inthis way. Still - I do happen to know a few pretty intelligent individuals who are very deeply religious, and so I can't say it's all a matter ofintelligence... although you will generally find more intelligent non-religious than vice versa, on the whole, in my experience.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by oo206oo

lobotomybeats wrote: Religion begs you to accept the unseen and unbelievable in the name of faith. Ironically, Religion also begs you to not believe in science due to a lack of 100% checkable facts.

I never thought about it like that. Thats a damn good point.

Yup - which again is why trying to have a logical discussion about religion just makes no sense... this basic premise alone proves the illogicality of it all.

That being said - if somebody can simply say to you that they have thoroughly considered the alternatives to their beliefs and still feel it within themselves to be true, I can't be mad at them for that much.

I just get the impression that most people who tell you they've really challenged themselves to seek out the alternatives haven't really done !@%+ in this way. Still - I do happen to know a few pretty intelligent individuals who are very deeply religious, and so I can't say it's all a matter of intelligence... although you will generally find more intelligent non-religious than vice versa, on the whole, in my experience.



Yeah, I can't mad at them for that. I can, however, feel slightly more sad for them. If you really search within yourself and consider the alternativesand still come back to religion, I can't help but to be saddened that logic wasn't enough to persuade you. It's almost like smokers who keepsmoking after one of their friends die of lung cancer.

 

[oo206oo]

In my personal experience, all the people i know that are devoutly religious are so because thats how they were raised.

Ive asked a few of them if they ever stopped to think about other possibilities and theyve just shrugged it off like "why would i do that?". Thatalways struck me as odd.

"Blinded by faith" indeed.

 

[frank mucus]

I believe in both, so I win. But the U.S. not picking up this film prevents me from seeing anymore of Jennifer Connelly, thus I lose.

 

[ghenges]

In every religious discussion, it always seems the person arguing for religion are trying to convince themselves rather than the person they are debating with.

 

[breakyaneck3000]

Originally Posted by General Johnson

Originally Posted by ArsnalJ23

Originally Posted by General Johnson


To you I sound crazy. I've seen enough to know that I am not.

I have seen interdimensional travel with my own two eyes three times and no, no drugs were involved.

Of course, I could never convince you of my what I've seen and know. I have no problem with that. I guess you'll have to see some of those things with your own eyes before you can grasp what I'm speaking of.

Bet.

Even better though, you could school us in the verses of your intellectual supremacy... just so we understand where you're coming from at least.

I didn't say that I'm intellectually superior to anyone.

Here's where I'm coming from. Metaphysical experiences have led me to an understanding that life is much bigger than what we can experience through the five senses.



I have seen an entity (for lack of better words) leave this dimension, right in front of my face.

Years later, a guide took me through time and showed me math that I don't understand, the equation or sequence was long, and it was all to illustrate that everything is part of the equation. Nothing is random or left to chance.



You can call me crazy all day. That's cool. I still don't think, based on what I've seen, that humans understand our origins yet. And I know we didn't evolve from "ape like" creatures.

General johnson wrote
"What would cause a species as intelligent (more intelligent than other apes) as this "ape like" creature to just give up on its ownsurvival?"

the ice age. h o m o sapien neanderthals were heavier and required more calories to survive, they were strict carnivores and most likely died out from lack offood supply. h o m o sapien sapiens were smaller and required less calories and adapted to eating a wide variety of things(animals, plants, etc..) andsurvived.

General Johnson: i believe that you're telling the truth about your experiences in the metaphysical realm. i too have had experiences that arebeyond my comprehension. i ve experienced telepathy with what i believe to be some type of intelligent being(maybe another human). i went to my pc to checkmy email after logging in this being was speaking to me in english and was encouraging me to "advertise myself". on my computer screen appeared apage with letters arranged in a strange language and a box to enter the letters. the being was guiding me through some type of breathing and typing exercise. the being was telling me to breathe steadily and type while sounding out the letters. this went on for 4+ hours. this same being told me to go outside myhome and look up above. i saw lights in the sky hovering above blinking rapidly in red, yellow, green, blue. what i believe to be clouds or some "specialeffect" smoke was in the shape of an old bearded man then quickly turning into the face of a horned "evil" face. i starred in awe and amazementand then the "smoke" turned back into the old man holding a baby with the umbilical cord attached to him. i felt like my hair was growing rapidly. it was a strange but satisfying feeling. it was around 3:00 am, i went back inside my house and went to sleep. when i woke up i felt like i just had the bestsleep ever and felt incredibly refreshed. things just seemed clearer and felt like i was one with the universe. i felt like i was connected to all beings andthings in existence. i suddenly had a feeling that everything was going to be "ok". and a sense of duty to do anything in my power and ability tomake our world better. i felt true peace of mind, my assumption from studying/researching is that i attained some form of enlightenment. no drugs wereinvolved.

 

[illmatic34]

I hate religion.

 

[the yes guy]

People still argue about evolution? Wow.

 

[brrraptors]

my problem with religious people is that unless they can question their faith and come up with an intelligent counter-argument to that, they have little tocontribute to a philosophical debate of evolutionism vs creationism. a lot of people need religion because it gives their lives a sense of meaning and purpose.if they didnt believe in god, heaven and all that, they'd be left with a plethora of questions. to them, not having an answer for the purpose of theirexistence is to accept that their life has no meaning at all. religion gives them something to live for thats merely more than their personal desires andgoals. their whole notion of using god to fill the blanks bugs me.

it was believed that thunder and lightening was caused by god before science came up with the real reasoning behind the phenomenon. knowledge expands overtime, its not something humans discover overnight. its slowly explained a lot of what was previously thought of as "god did it". i firmly believe oneday science will explain the existence of human life form, its purpose and more importantly its history.

does human life have some kind of cosmic purpose or are we merely leading a meaningless life? by meaningless i mean in the larger picture not as in yourperspective of your life. every species has its purpose within the nature of earth. its a cycle of life and death where you eat, survive and reproduce. beyondthat is there really any meaning to life ? everything we want, have, create is a consequence of our own desire. or is there a real reason behind thedevelopment of our species that has a bigger more cosmic purpose?

 

[redrum sb]

I'd watch it

 

[duba169]

you guys are missing the point

it's 2009 and this movie can't be shown in America

that's a serious problem

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by Mr Kuter

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

@ cartune:

all of your quotes are nearly 3 decades old.

and from, self-admittedly, creationists (an already debunked belief system).

And how old is Darwins stuff? What relevance is there in how old the quotes are?

Because those are old quotes meant to somehow discredit Evolution, and they haven't one bit... meaning, they are basically forgotten at this point as just forgotten rebuttals to Evolution.

The fact that Evolution has stood up this long to all the scientific (and otherwise) scrutiny it's been put under for over 100 years now... should tell you all you need to know about how concrete the theory is.

I dont understand your statement both religion and the evolution theory have been debunked since they were created. I've given you examples offrom scieintist who dont consider the theory a fact even from Charles Darwin there plenty more examples of scientist who dont support the theory. Again Im nottaken sides my original post was against the notion that all scientist support Darwin's thory which is a common misconseption.

And the bolded statement sounds sooooooo familiar. If you switch a few words you would sound like an irrational Christian I guess we all need something tobelieve in

 

[verynecessary]

something to consider:

science does not "prove" things as much as it disproves ideas and theories. it can suggest or support an idea or theory, but cannot prove it. iwould say all scientific knowledge is based on some universal assumptions, backed by several hundred years of repeatability, and yet many things accepted as"truths" are sometimes overturned in light of new experiments and new knowledge. one example is quantum physics, which stands to put many notions ofnewtonian physics into question.

i'm not saying science is wrong, but science as we know it today isn't infallible.

 

[joe camel smooth]

completely disbelieving in evolution is flat-out embarrassing

we can witness it with our very eyes through, for example, acquired antibiotic-resistance in bacteria like MRSA.

please get a grip on reality.

 

[general johnson]

Originally Posted by Breakyaneck3000

General johnson wrote

"What would cause a species as intelligent (more intelligent than other apes) as this "ape like" creature to just give up on its own survival?"

the ice age. h o m o sapien neanderthals were heavier and required more calories to survive, they were strict carnivores and most likely died out from lack of food supply. h o m o sapien sapiens were smaller and required less calories and adapted to eating a wide variety of things(animals, plants, etc..) and survived.

General Johnson: i believe that you're telling the truth about your experiences in the metaphysical realm. i too have had experiences that are beyond my comprehension. i ve experienced telepathy with what i believe to be some type of intelligent being(maybe another human). i went to my pc to check my email after logging in this being was speaking to me in english and was encouraging me to "advertise myself". on my computer screen appeared a page with letters arranged in a strange language and a box to enter the letters. the being was guiding me through some type of breathing and typing exercise. the being was telling me to breathe steadily and type while sounding out the letters. this went on for 4+ hours. this same being told me to go outside my home and look up above. i saw lights in the sky hovering above blinking rapidly in red, yellow, green, blue. what i believe to be clouds or some "special effect" smoke was in the shape of an old bearded man then quickly turning into the face of a horned "evil" face. i starred in awe and amazement and then the "smoke" turned back into the old man holding a baby with the umbilical cord attached to him. i felt like my hair was growing rapidly. it was a strange but satisfying feeling. it was around 3:00 am, i went back inside my house and went to sleep. when i woke up i felt like i just had the best sleep ever and felt incredibly refreshed. things just seemed clearer and felt like i was one with the universe. i felt like i was connected to all beings and things in existence. i suddenly had a feeling that everything was going to be "ok". and a sense of duty to do anything in my power and ability to make our world better. i felt true peace of mind, my assumption from studying/researching is that i attained some form of enlightenment. no drugs were involved.

@ the

Why you mad?

On to the bold part...

I can relate to that feeling of "oneness" with the universe. I've had it a few times.


I'll stop pissing people off and just say this, I don't BELIEVE that we evolved from apes,
but I know just as much about that as anyone else who has posted in here.

I do believe in evolution, but I personally believe that humans didn't originate on Earth.
I believe we are the offspring of other, more advanced "humans" who put us here to
see how we would mingle and maneuver in this realm. I believe that once a human has
experienced enough to understand that we are all one and that GOD is truly the universe
and we are all walking GODs, embodying our own universes, that we will be granted
passage into the next dimension. I believe that some of us have been here before, many
times and some of us are new to this realm. Those that are spiritually young must go
through some things in their various lives before they can move on.

I also believe that there are other creatures on this planet that didn't originate here.
Some live in the oceans and some live on land. I believe that some "people" who
appear to be human really aren't.

These are my beliefs though. Not a religion.

Prove my beliefs? How do I do that? I can't. It's just what I feel is real through
my experiences. Am I crazy? No. I wish some of you could have seen some of
the things I've seen. You might have a different take on things. Maybe not.

 

[blacklion23]

I hope I can see it.

 

[breakyaneck3000]

Originally Posted by General Johnson

Originally Posted by Breakyaneck3000

General johnson wrote

"What would cause a species as intelligent (more intelligent than other apes) as this "ape like" creature to just give up on its own survival?"

the ice age. h o m o sapien neanderthals were heavier and required more calories to survive, they were strict carnivores and most likely died out from lack of food supply. h o m o sapien sapiens were smaller and required less calories and adapted to eating a wide variety of things(animals, plants, etc..) and survived.

General Johnson: i believe that you're telling the truth about your experiences in the metaphysical realm. i too have had experiences that are beyond my comprehension. i ve experienced telepathy with what i believe to be some type of intelligent being(maybe another human). i went to my pc to check my email after logging in this being was speaking to me in english and was encouraging me to "advertise myself". on my computer screen appeared a page with letters arranged in a strange language and a box to enter the letters. the being was guiding me through some type of breathing and typing exercise. the being was telling me to breathe steadily and type while sounding out the letters. this went on for 4+ hours. this same being told me to go outside my home and look up above. i saw lights in the sky hovering above blinking rapidly in red, yellow, green, blue. what i believe to be clouds or some "special effect" smoke was in the shape of an old bearded man then quickly turning into the face of a horned "evil" face. i starred in awe and amazement and then the "smoke" turned back into the old man holding a baby with the umbilical cord attached to him. i felt like my hair was growing rapidly. it was a strange but satisfying feeling. it was around 3:00 am, i went back inside my house and went to sleep. when i woke up i felt like i just had the best sleep ever and felt incredibly refreshed. things just seemed clearer and felt like i was one with the universe. i felt like i was connected to all beings and things in existence. i suddenly had a feeling that everything was going to be "ok". and a sense of duty to do anything in my power and ability to make our world better. i felt true peace of mind, my assumption from studying/researching is that i attained some form of enlightenment. no drugs were involved.

@ the

Why you mad?

On to the bold part...

I can relate to that feeling of "oneness" with the universe. I've had it a few times.


I'll stop pissing people off and just say this, I don't BELIEVE that we evolved from apes,
but I know just as much about that as anyone else who has posted in here.

I do believe in evolution, but I personally believe that humans didn't originate on Earth.
I believe we are the offspring of other, more advanced "humans" who put us here to
see how we would mingle and maneuver in this realm. I believe that once a human has
experienced enough to understand that we are all one and that GOD is truly the universe
and we are all walking GODs, embodying our own universes, that we will be granted
passage into the next dimension. I believe that some of us have been here before, many
times and some of us are new to this realm. Those that are spiritually young must go
through some things in their various lives before they can move on.

I also believe that there are other creatures on this planet that didn't originate here.
Some live in the oceans and some live on land. I believe that some "people" who
appear to be human really aren't.

These are my beliefs though. Not a religion.

Prove my beliefs? How do I do that? I can't. It's just what I feel is real through
my experiences. Am I crazy? No. I wish some of you could have seen some of
the things I've seen. You might have a different take on things. Maybe not.

i must have clicked the

by accident. i am not mad at you. i actually appreciate and relate with your ideas.

and i feel pissingpeople of is necessary. it makes them think.

your ideas of a "super human" civilization somewhere in space are intriguing. Just think if these "super humans" were to arrive on earthat this point in time? chaos would break lose, half of the country can't even deal with obama being president! there minds will probably explode. awareness is a slow process and people need to change themselves for it to happen. that's the problem with religion. it doesn't strive for more. the"problem" is solved.

each one of us is a universe, we are extremely powerful. our ability to create from our imagination is beyond my comprehension and completely empowering. thenext step in human evolution is definitely gonna be in our minds. we will all have to be responsible and care for not only our immediate family but ourneighbors. unfortunately, we live in a totalitarian system that is controlled by a wealthy few. these are realizations that must be gained individually. aslong as we continue to question and look for answers we are heading in the right track. if someone is satisfied by the status quo, they will never reachcertain realizations that will further improve the human species. it is through examples of others that we learn best. it is the responsibility of everygeneration to increase human potential and awareness. you have to learn how to connect the dots of history and be able to visualize what is to follow. it isthese people who continue to make our planet seem super tiny in comparison to the vastness of the cosmos.

 

[general johnson]

If they were here among us, they would be indistinguishable from other humans unless they somehow proved they were from somewhere else. And why draw attentionto yourself if you are only here to observe?

Just a thought.

But we as a species are evolving to our next stage (I believe). Our minds are incredible computers. Imagine not needing a body and the ability to travel at thespeed of thought.

 

[craftsy21]

I dont understand your statement both religion and the evolution theory have been debunked since they were created. I've given you examples of from scieintist who dont consider the theory a fact even from Charles Darwin there plenty more examples of scientist who dont support the theory. Again Im not taken sides my original post was against the notion that all scientist support Darwin's thory which is a common misconseption.


You can't find me a scientist with a shred of credibility who doesn't believe in the theory of evolution - period, end of story. The mere fact thatthey don't believe such a thing would get them laughed out of any room full of real science people.

Sure - there are plenty of guys out there claiming to be scientists who are just using it as a way to debunk evolution and promote their own beliefs... buti'm talking actually credible scientists, not guys sponsored by churches to come up with their conclusions.

As far as what Darwin said - he was referring to the idea that science will shape his theory over time, as it has. Not that his theories were completelywrong on the whole.

And the bolded statement sounds sooooooo familiar. If you switch a few words you would sound like an irrational Christian I guess we all need something to believe in

Yes it does, but no - we don't. I said "scientific scrutiny" - genesis alone doesn't stand up to a split second of scientificscrutiny. Don't confuse religious crazies objections with actual truth seekers... i can sit here and scream gravity isn't real, but that doesn'tmean it's a reputable claim.

 

[dollabill87]

Okay so throughout history man has frequently come to absurd theories and beliefs, from every religion in the world
to the scientific experts of any given time. Even things that were held as fact twenty years ago are know modified or adjusted
according to new discoveries. So who's to say that even though we have advancd very quickly in recent history, the
"scientific truths" we currently hold aren't but a small screen shot of a much larger reality? I mean you would have been a
lunatic to believe the world was round two hundred years ago, and everyone would have told you so. Why is it absurd to suggest
that there are many more leaps in scientific and intellectual property if we adjust or question a few things we hold as irrtractable fact.
Much of the proof for either theories is circumstantial either based on a book full with pretty wild stories or on fossil evidence
that doesn't neccessarily support a lot of the timelines or chain of events that are supposed to have taken place. I mean sure
annomalies in comparing fossils are there! But it is extremely hard to tell a hundred percent accurate story of what actually
took place at the birth of our exsistence.

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by oo206oo

lobotomybeats wrote: Religion begs you to accept the unseen and unbelievable in the name of faith. Ironically, Religion also begs you to not believe in science due to a lack of 100% checkable facts.

I never thought about it like that. Thats a damn good point.

Yup - which again is why trying to have a logical discussion about religion just makes no sense... this basic premise alone proves the illogicality of it all.

That being said - if somebody can simply say to you that they have thoroughly considered the alternatives to their beliefs and still feel it within themselves to be true, I can't be mad at them for that much.

I just get the impression that most people who tell you they've really challenged themselves to seek out the alternatives haven't really done !@%+ in this way. Still - I do happen to know a few pretty intelligent individuals who are very deeply religious, and so I can't say it's all a matter of intelligence... although you will generally find more intelligent non-religious than vice versa, on the whole, in my experience.



This is me. Over the past few years I've had my doubt over religion, but after a lot of reasoning and thinking. I realized that it just comes down to hopeand faith. I'm a very rational and logical person, but something inside me tells me that there is something greater out there.

I was raised in a religious Muslim household and was brought up on a lot of Islams teaching. It wasn't until HS in which I thought about otheralternatives. After many many years of thought and reasoning, I came back to religion. To me it just brings comfort and hope.

Does that mean i'm not logical? No, it doesn't. I do a lot of scientific fact as credible, but I also have my beliefs.

 

[illscan]

Originally Posted by General Johnson

I'm not saying I don't believe in evolution.

I'm saying that I don't believe that humans evolved from "ape like" creatures.

Uhhhh.................

 

[757bred]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

I dont understand your statement both religion and the evolution theory have been debunked since they were created. I've given you examples of from scieintist who dont consider the theory a fact even from Charles Darwin there plenty more examples of scientist who dont support the theory. Again Im not taken sides my original post was against the notion that all scientist support Darwin's thory which is a common misconseption.

You can't find me a scientist with a shred of credibility who doesn't believe in the theory of evolution - period, end of story. The mere fact that they don't believe such a thing would get them laughed out of any room full of real science people.

Sure - there are plenty of guys out there claiming to be scientists who are just using it as a way to debunk evolution and promote their own beliefs... but i'm talking actually credible scientists, not guys sponsored by churches to come up with their conclusions.

As far as what Darwin said - he was referring to the idea that science will shape his theory over time, as it has. Not that his theories were completely wrong on the whole.

And the bolded statement sounds sooooooo familiar. If you switch a few words you would sound like an irrational Christian I guess we all need something to believe in

Yes it does, but no - we don't. I said "scientific scrutiny" - genesis alone doesn't stand up to a split second of scientific scrutiny. Don't confuse religious crazies objections with actual truth seekers... i can sit here and scream gravity isn't real, but that doesn't mean it's a reputable claim.



Sir Fred Hoyle, Francis Crick (nobel prize winner and co discover of DNA) just to name 2 off the top of the head.

 

[retr0sxual]

Where can I see this?