Can We Have A Serious, Mature Discussion on Abortion?

[chao7]

If a man can't tell a woman what to do with her body (even tho she needed his participation to get pregnant) why is acceptable for that same woman (when she wants to have the child and he doesn't) to force him to pay child support? My body my choice should go both ways.

WASHED KING

This a good encapsulation of what I was saying. I don't wish this situation on anyone, and I never want to do this to an innocent child in my own personal life. But the logic here with "you have an 18 year financial obligation and zero input" seems blatantly unfair. Maybe I'm just ignorant or can't understand something, I'm willing to admit that.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

Somebody overturn my school loans, I work in non profit social services sector.

Overturn my loans

 

[jking0821]

WASHED KING

This a good encapsulation of what I was saying. I don't wish this situation on anyone, and I never want to do this to an innocent child in my own personal life. But the logic here with "you have an 18 year financial obligation and zero input" seems blatantly unfair. Maybe I'm just ignorant or can't understand something, I'm willing to admit that.

Anyone who had a baby scare when they were younger knows the circumstances. The women doesn’t say “eff you I’m having it enjoy being a dad oh and we are breaking up so I need child support”

You get the “I’m late call” you sit down with each other you discuss your options. Child support at the end of the day is wayyyyy easier then being there to raise the child if that’s the final outcome.

These scenarios are never identical. Idk why people can’t see this. The nuance to every life comes into play.

And people saying your ending a life, give the baby a chance. That’s the argument right? Is it a life? That is subjective. A 6 week old cluster of cells isn’t a life to me. If it is to you, then women are murderers

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I keep seeing posts on SM saying men will now think twice about having unprotected sex with girls they don't want to have kids with.

Ok......

Not sure why folks think THIS will stop them.

 

[sneeker]

Anyone who had a baby scare when they were younger knows the circumstances. The women doesn’t say “eff you I’m having it enjoy being a dad oh and we are breaking up so I need child support”

You get the “I’m late call” you sit down with each other you discuss your options. Child support at the end of the day is wayyyyy easier then being there to raise the child if that’s the final outcome.

These scenarios are never identical. Idk why people can’t see this. The nuance to every life comes into play.

And people saying your ending a life, give the baby a chance. That’s the argument right? Is it a life? That is subjective. A 6 week old cluster of cells isn’t a life to me. If it is to you, then women are murderers

considering those scenarios, you are pretty much defining pregnancy as an inconvenience rather than that of people treating it as a hindrance to their rights. at the end of the day, it does define the individuals' moral compass. the individual did the deed and is trying to escape the repercussions of his/her action. consider a drunk driver that killed someone and "choose" not to report the incident. again, "moral compass" and something that violates the fundamental human rights.

on a personal level, I did have some baby scares way back. but in the end, I just told myself to go on with it and work it out. I had a few acquaintances who made it work despite the circumstances. lots of sacrifice but it was fine.

as far as the 6 week old cluster of cells go, I remember when I took my wife to have her ultrasound check-up during her 4 week old pregnancy and it was the first time that I saw my unborn child. he had a shape and saw him swimming and moving and flattering his legs. that cluster of cells also have a heartbeat that I could see beating.

and yes, some women are murderers. I saw women threw away babies and fetuses as if they were garbage. some women can't be even categorized as humans.

 

[jape]

I keep seeing posts on SM saying men will now think twice about having unprotected sex with girls they don't want to have kids with.

Ok......

Not sure why folks think THIS will stop them.

you're right. You aren't thinking about getting pregnant until after you bust. Especially if you've never had kids before.

 

[WASHED KING]

considering those scenarios, you are pretty much defining pregnancy as an inconvenience rather than that of people treating it as a hindrance to their rights. at the end of the day, it does define the individuals' moral compass. the individual did the deed and is trying to escape the repercussions of his/her action. consider a drunk driver that killed someone and "choose" not to report the incident. again, "moral compass" and something that violates the fundamental human rights.

on a personal level, I did have some baby scares way back. but in the end, I just told myself to go on with it and work it out. I had a few acquaintances who made it work despite the circumstances. lots of sacrifice but it was fine.

as far as the 6 week old cluster of cells go, I remember when I took my wife to have her ultrasound check-up during her 4 week old pregnancy and it was the first time that I saw my unborn child. he had a shape and saw him swimming and moving and flattering his legs. that cluster of cells also have a heartbeat that I could see beating.

and yes, some women are murderers. I saw women threw away babies and fetuses as if they were garbage. some women can't be even categorized as humans.

You realize there will be even more babies and fetuses thrown away now right?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

. A 6 week old cluster of cells isn’t a life to me. If it is to you, then women are murderers

What is your definition of life?

What is science's definition of life?

Legit question

You realize there will be even more babies and fetuses thrown away now right?

Yea, that is probably what will happen moving forward.

Everybody can't afford to go across state borders to get an abortion.

 

[equality]

like it or not, the U.S. could really be heading now in that direction. Trump winning in 2016 and the incident on Jan 6, 2021 just shows how corrupted the system is. that formerly elected criminal that sat on the whitehouse pretty much poisoned the well of what is left of the republican party. it's is not about getting one party wants but bringing in righteousness, patriotism and justice first. I don't believe the U.S. can accomplish that with crook politicians or sheep voters. isn't it mortifying to see that the perpetrators of the Jan 6 insurrection are still roaming free? if this happened in other countries, those criminals would have been hanged already for treason.

Criminal orange man set the precedent - if you're on a way to losing an election, start peddling voting conspiracies and when you do lose, there'll be enough dumb ******* idiots that support you you might actually get what you want, or nothing will happen to you.

 

[jking0821]

What is your definition of life?

What is science's definition of life?

Legit question



Yea, that is probably what will happen moving forward.

Everybody can't afford to go across state borders to get an abortion.

I have a 14 month old daughter. And that thing was a parasite until at least 1 year. And that’s being nice.

sneeker so lets say you did the deed and are trying to run away from it and you have no moral qualms with taking a pill at 6 weeks to abort the fetus. So that now "defines your moral compass" but there is no negative or positive connotation to that. I don't understand your argument honestly, your random anecdotal evidence is also not helping the point that you are removing what I personally see as a fundamental right for a woman to choose. I don't want to put words into your mouth but it seems you are saying people that choose to abort have some sort of lower morality then yourself.

I don't believe science has a hard line on "when life begins" but a fetus is "viable" around 24 weeks...aka doctors at that point can keep it alive.
If you pinned me down and said what is your "definition of life" id say when the fetus is viable. Now if you said can a woman choose to get an abortion at 25 weeks. I would say yes, that is her choice and if i were in her shoes i would at least want the choice. I don't know personally if i could ever follow through on it...but i also don't know what it is like to grow a child inside my body. We can play the "what if..." game all day and that is why i feel like every single scenario is different.

 

[sneeker]

I have a 14 month old daughter. And that thing was a parasite until at least 1 year. And that’s being nice.

sneeker so lets say you did the deed and are trying to run away from it and you have no moral qualms with taking a pill at 6 weeks to abort the fetus. So that now "defines your moral compass" but there is no negative or positive connotation to that. I don't understand your argument honestly, your random anecdotal evidence is also not helping the point that you are removing what I personally see as a fundamental right for a woman to choose. I don't want to put words into your mouth but it seems you are saying people that choose to abort have some sort of lower morality then yourself.

I don't believe science has a hard line on "when life begins" but a fetus is "viable" around 24 weeks...aka doctors at that point can keep it alive.
If you pinned me down and said what is your "definition of life" id say when the fetus is viable. Now if you said can a woman choose to get an abortion at 25 weeks. I would say yes, that is her choice and if i were in her shoes i would at least want the choice. I don't know personally if i could ever follow through on it...but i also don't know what it is like to grow a child inside my body. We can play the "what if..." game all day and that is why i feel like every single scenario is different.

it's good to know you consider your daughter as a parasite.

 

[jking0821]

it's good to know you consider your daughter as a parasite.

whelp that answers my question

 

[sneeker]

You realize there will be even more babies and fetuses thrown away now right?

it's a tragedy either way. more fetuses and babies thrown as much as how many aborted babies there are. abortion didn't really stopped anything but rather is used as another way of disposing life.

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

it's a tragedy either way. more fetuses and babies thrown as much as how many aborted babies there are. abortion didn't really stopped anything but rather is used as another way of disposing life.

It’s a way bigger tragedy to force a woman to go through 9 months of pregnancy for a child that will be discarded instead of not doing that. It’s not like the state or gov. is making up for that time and money spent.

Not to mention the even far worse scenarios for any truly bitter and/or afflicted women who have absolutely no reason to make sure they have a healthy pregnancy.

If the pro-life side ever truly got their way they wouldn’t like the look of the next generation that comes to be due to mass forced births.

 

[sneeker]

It’s a way bigger tragedy to force a woman to go through 9 months of pregnancy for a child that will be discarded instead of not doing that. It’s not like the state or gov. is making up for that time and money spent.

Not to mention the even far worse scenarios for any truly bitter and/or afflicted women who have absolutely no reason to make sure they have a healthy pregnancy.

If the pro-life side ever truly got their way they wouldn’t like the look of the next generation that comes to be due to mass forced births.

there is no such way to sugarcoat a tragedy especially when a loss of life is concerned.

as far as forced births are concerned, those women didn't exactly came from puppy farms or were forced pregnancies.

I would agree however that pro-life organizations could have done or do better. but I don't believe that just because pro-life organizations can't live up to supporting people in need that we have to resolve to infanticide. otherwise, how is that any different from people that commit genocide just because it doesn't conform to their beliefs. I believe as a society we could do better as human beings.

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

there is no such way to sugarcoat a tragedy especially when a loss of life is concerned.

Nothing I mentioned alludes to sugarcoating tragedies.

First sentence is about what is a way bigger tragedy.

as far as forced births are concerned, those women didn't exactly came from puppy farms or were forced pregnancies.

This is a statement from extreme ignorance and doesn’t have any relevance.

Where the women come from doesn’t matter.

Also forcing a woman to give birth has no correlation with if she was forced to get pregnant. I’m talking about women being forced to give birth and you randomly bringing up forced conception.

These are not salient points. Not sure why what you’re saying matters to the topic

I would agree however that pro-life organizations could have done or do better. but I don't believe that just because pro-life organizations can't live up to supporting people in need that we have to resolve to infanticide.

Fetuses are not infants.

Furthermore, since the state and gov can sanction the killing of ppl for whatever reason abortion falls right under that purview.

They’re not resolving to anything. It is a clear choice.

otherwise, how is that any different from people that commit genocide just because it doesn't conform to their beliefs.

Singular ppl or groups who commit genocide are mass murderers.

We’re talking about a bunch of individuals who choose to abort their pregnancies. There is no mass murderof babies involved.

Something has gotta be off for you to not be able to tell the difference between these two things.

I believe as a society we could do better as human beings.

This doesn’t really matter.

Majority rules in these situations in our society.

 

[steevoo1]

A US tourist in Malta was refused a life saving abortion. It is the 'hellscape' that's coming with the end of Roe v. Wade, Planned Parenthood said.

A US citizen was refused a life-saving abortion while on vacation in Malta. The case highlights the danger to women with Roe v Wade being reversed, say campaigners.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[gry60]

considering those scenarios, you are pretty much defining pregnancy as an inconvenience

If she doesn't want it, it is.

If he doesn't want it, it also is.

there is no such way to sugarcoat a tragedy especially when a loss of life is concerned.

The dead person in a case of self-defense is still family to somebody; it's a tragic loss for somebody; but it is legal in this country.

The presence of a fetus can modify the woman's behavior in ways she may not agree with; it can impact a woman's body in ways she can't recover from. Should we hold that fetus to a higher level of protection than a robber who gets shot and dies during a carjacking?

 

[slaughterx]

You guys know this changes nothing in liberal states, right?

 

[gry60]

You guys know this changes nothing in liberal states, right?

And what if your job moves to a conservative state?

What if someone's daughter wants to go to a university that is in a conservative state?

And "what ifs" aside, conservatives have already mentioned that they would prosecute people who live out of their states if they helped residents of those states get an abortion (Texas recently passed such a law).

This desire to enforce their state laws on other states is not new (fugitive slave act),. we know how it ended.

 

[slaughterx]

A lot of what ifs... but the simple answer is, if you dont agree with the politics of that state then move out or vote to change them.

 

[WASHED KING]

A lot of what ifs... but the simple answer is, if you dont agree with the politics of that state then move out or vote to change them.

Ah yes I’m sure the family living in the Bible Belt bringing in 40,000 annually can afford to move to the Bay Area.

Why didn’t I think of that?

 

[slaughterx]

I guess crying about it on Niketalk is the solution then, keep up the fight!

 

[Nouss]

 

[TURBO UNO]

Ah yes I’m sure the family living in the Bible Belt bringing in 40,000 annually can afford to move to the Bay Area.

Why didn’t I think of that?

Not sure permanently relocating to another state is the only move. Wouldn’t a bus ticket to a neighboring state that allows abortion be a better option? I haven’t seen the map of which states will/have shut down clinics but there must be some options.

For the record, I’m in favor of a woman’s right to choose. I’m just saying it’s better than being forced to give birth.