BREAKING NEWS Mike Vick to the Eagles Confirmed

[craftsy21]

Again, he's not a bad quarterback by any means. He just needs to pick it up a bit and he's hitting his prime, so maybe that's coming.

What would be your interpretation of picking it up though? 2 rings.. 5 years... who else is touching that?

Let me ask you question - would you rather be Drew Brees or Big Ben? Everybody talks about how wonderful Brees is, his accuracy, his stats... But what is itgetting him? If Ben went to a bad team and got to play from behind more often, he would have bigger numbers, for sure.

But the dude has as many perfect QB rating games as anybody ever has held.. i mean, there's plenty of games where he starts out just on fire in the firsthalf and then barely has to throw again after that because they're up 3 scores. What do you want him to do about that?

I don't get what you want out of the man.... he is what he is. Will anyone ever say he's just a pure talent, a fantastic pocket passer with ungodlyarm strength? No. But do most of the guys who have those traits end up being hall of famers anyways? There's a lot more who aren't in than who are.

Again - if you give Ben's situation to anybody but Ben, and a guy puts up identical numbers, people are giving the guy more credit. There is justsomething people don't like about Ben, and that makes them feel like he's not doing a great job when in reality, he's doing everything he has to..there's nothing more he could be doing most of the time, and yet all you wanna do is harp on his bad moments that apparently aren't bad enough to keephim from winning a couple of superbowls.

Who are you comparing him to, really? Who's doing better than him, and what are you basing this on?

 

[jaysfordays]

i really want to send out a heartfelt thank you to EA sports for not butchering Vick's ratings... 90 speed 93 throwing power 95 throw on the run, i cancertainly work with that.

 

[drock2010]

I'm mad Madden siced him up

none the less its good to have Vick back

 

[uptown roamer]

You talk about how all that "if so and so were on the Steelers" talk is circumstantial, yet you're doin' the same thing with Ben and if hewere on a different squad.

Can't have it both ways

As a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers, I couldn't ask for anything more. But it's just not him winning games, and that's what you're making itseem like. I'm sure the D would like it's credit as well...

You can't keep sayin' "who's doing better than him" as if he's goin' out there winning **#! by himself, 'cause he's not.

You're whole argument on why he's a better QB than so and so all revolves around the fact that he has Super Bowl rings. Again, what does that have todo with INDIVIDUAL performance and abilities?

Like it's been said, Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring, so what are we REALLY talkin' about here?

 

[purplenurple1414]

August 19....

 

[N41D]

There is just something people don't like about Ben
Oh good lord Craftsy come on... You're better than that...

 

[jpzx]

Originally Posted by EzFlash26

that third spot is up for grabs, dont know what yall acting up for.

No it's not.
1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Manning

The third spot isn't CLOSE to being up for grabs.

Originally Posted by Fade On You

Ben has 19 4th quarter game winning drives. More then any other QB. 2 Superbowls. Ben is one of the hardest QBs to tackle, he sheds them constantly. He's going into his 6th year and has already won 2 Superbowls. Made it into the playoffs 04/05/07/08. AFC North Championships 04/07/08. Conference championships in 05/08. Yearly completion % no less then 59% every year. 7.9% yard per throw average throughout his seasons.

Why are you rattling off the Pittsburgh Steelers' accomplishments?

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein

if im an owner, id rather my qb suck and have 3 rings than have good stats and 0 rings ...

Why would the QB who sucked win more rings than the QB who was good if they were put in the same situation (same team)?

Once again it all comes down to the team.

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

If u put Ben on a team with a sorry Defense, his hold the ball, careless throw style of play would get EXPOSED

Big Ben with 12 superbowl rings still aint a better QB than someone like Dan Marino with None.
Ben benefits from playing on a great team.

Preach.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by Uptown Roamer

You talk about how all that "if so and so were on the Steelers" talk is circumstantial, yet you're doin' the same thing with Ben and if he were on a different squad.

Can't have it both ways

As a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers, I couldn't ask for anything more. But it's just not him winning games, and that's what you're making it seem like. I'm sure the D would like it's credit as well...

You can't keep sayin' "who's doing better than him" as if he's goin' out there winning **#! by himself, 'cause he's not.

You're whole argument on why he's a better QB than so and so all revolves around the fact that he has Super Bowl rings. Again, what does that have to do with INDIVIDUAL performance and abilities?

Like it's been said, Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring, so what are we REALLY talkin' about here?

Even without Ben's rings in the conversation, anybody who knows jack $%%* about stats would have to put Ben near the top of the list, based on hisefficiency numbers. And everyone knows Ben's stats are his weak point, so you throw in his intangibles and guess what, you have a great quarterback.

If u put Ben on a team with a sorry Defense, his hold the ball, careless throw style of play would get EXPOSED

Big Ben with 12 superbowl rings still aint a better QB than someone like Dan Marino with None.
Ben benefits from playing on a great team.
Your first point makes ZERO sense. If he was so careless, his QB rating would be TERRIBLE. His efficiency numbers are all you have to look at todetermine how he'd do on another team, period. It's not like Ben's played behind great pass blocking lines either, let's not act like justanybody could go out there and do what he does.

And you can't be serious with the last thing... if we're not going to judge people on their actual accomplishments, you gotta throw Ryan %#*@$#* Leafin the conversation as an all-time great QB. Natural talent is not what we're discussing here... it's who gets it done on the field.



You guys remind me of the people who still try to argue tempo-free numbers in basketball... you sound ridiculous using this ******ed logic.

Oh good lord Craftsy come on... You're better than that...

You mean to tell me that people on here like Big Ben? and that THAT doesn't play any factor in how he's judged by fans?

Look at the topic of this post... Mike Vick is hailed as some kind of golden god in football for ONE goddamn good season, yet Ben is constantly badmouthed andall he does is win freaking games.

I'm going to put together some kind of blind test here comparing different numbers, and you guys will look silly when you try to tell me that Bendoesn't rank easily 3rd on the list of quarterbacks. It's like you can't get over the fact that he doesn't do things "pretty".




I'm serious... if Ben is this mediocre QB, who exactly is supposed to be good and what are you basing this on? The only two I'll concede as better areBrady and Manning, but I want proof for how you're determining another active QB as better.. from anybody who's up to the challenge.

 

[fade on you]

JPZx wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Fade On You

Ben has 19 4th quarter game winning drives. More then any other QB. 2 Superbowls. Ben is one of the hardest QBs to tackle, he sheds them constantly. He's going into his 6th year and has already won 2 Superbowls. Made it into the playoffs 04/05/07/08. AFC North Championships 04/07/08. Conference championships in 05/08. Yearly completion % no less then 59% every year. 7.9% yard per throw average throughout his seasons.

Why are you rattling off the Pittsburgh Steelers' accomplishments?



Are you mad? Last time i checked we were talking about QBs and their accomplishments...and i do believe a QB is part of the damn team!! He's part of thereason the TEAM got to that point!! I find it HILARIOUS how you had to highlight the team stats instead of individual. Did you skip that part? Would you ratherme "rattle" off individual stats to make you feel better?

What about his career averages?
208.4 YPG
8.1 YPA
84 TD
92.5 QBR

OR how about the 2004 AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the year the first QB in 34 years to he honored.
Youngest QB to win a Superbowl in NFL HISTORY.
Named to the Pro Bowl in 07
Roethlisberger currently ranks seventh all-time in NFL passer rating (89.4) and yards per attempt (7.86) among quarterbacks with a minimum of1500 career attempts.
As a rookie he went 13-0 in the regular season of 04.
In 2005 he led the team to 3 straight on the road playoff wins on the way to the SB which is next to impossible to do.
In 2005 he led the league in YPA with a 8.90 and finished third in QB passer ratings behind Palmer and Manning with a 98.6.
In 2007 week 9 he threw for 5 TDs in the first half and only the 5th QB since the 1970 merger to do so. Perfect 158.3 passer rating.
During week 15 he threw his 29th TD of the season breaking the team single season TD record.
Week 16 another perfect QB passer rating.
He also became the first QB in NFL HISTORY to throw 2 perfect games in a single season.
32 TDs passes ranked 3rd in the NFL behind Brady and Romo set a Steelers record and his 104.1 passer rating he was second only to Brady.
19 4th quarter game winning drives, if that isnt clutch i dont know what is.

NFL Records
Most single season wins as a Rookie, 04.
Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB - 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)
Highest Passer Rating, Rookie Season - 98.1 (2004)
Highest Completion Percentage, Rookie Season - 66.4% (2004)
Tie Most TD passes in a Monday night football game (07)
First QB to start 2 Conference Championship games in 2 first seasons in the NFL (04/05)
Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino).
Roethlisberger became the second quarterback in NFL history, along with Manning to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the onlyquarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.
Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) - 51 (from 2004-200
Tied for most seasons with one or more postseason starts in the first five years in the league since 1960.


So to all you doing the Ben bashing, you tell me why the FACTS would lead you to not put him on a top 5 QB. If anything is hypocritical its you fools runningfrom the facts based on the point you dont like him as a person...it has NOTHING to do with his play on the field.

Wake the %%!% up.

 

[Retroballer]

how many records up there aren't team based though? No doubt Ben can win games with the team he has, or he wouldn't be in Pittsburgh right now. but yourank quarterbacks you have to think, if they had the same team, who would have the most success? the top three are undebatable, after that it could be a numberof QB's

 

[krazy88s]

I like how this thread has become about Big Ben. To hell with Vick

I also like how many here ignoring Ben's '07 season. But they're quick to acknowledge his 06 season.

I mean if Ben was in pass-happy offense like McNabb, Warner or Brees would he still be mediocre? who knows?

 

[krazy88s]

If u put Ben on a team with a sorry Defense, his hold the ball, careless throw style of play would get EXPOSED

Or he can put every throw on the money, avg. 450 pass yds/game, perfect throw style, with a average Defense and still lose. Sorta like Brees.


EDIT: Craftsy, dont bother putting up anything. The counter-argument will be he rely's on the run game, it's the Defense etc.

No one benefitssolely from throwing.

 

[brrraptors]

the same big ben is over-rated and any qb in his position would do just as well if not better than him argument happens a few times every season on NT. bottomline is people have an opinion, biased or otherwise, and its hard to change that. Crafsty does have a point when he says if it was some other better liked QBon NT had the same accomplishments and numbers he would get more kudos. in a team sport even individual numbers are based on your teammate's performance toan extent. so yes QBs benefit from good WRs, proper play calling, good run game to take pressure off of them mentally, what defenses they have to face etc. butstatistics are there because theyre a standard for comparison. in his first 5 seasons ben had more wins as a starter than ANY qb in nfl history. scramblingoutside the pocket to buy more time and finding an open receiver is risky but thats what makes him who he is. people praise qbs when they scramble, hold ontothe ball for too long and salvage the bad situation with a good play but fire him down when he gets sacked for negative yardage. thats just the nature of thegame. when you're that big and defenders have trouble getting you to the ground why wouldnt you try and scramble to make a play? ben was never theprototype throw for 30 receptions, 300+yds and 4-5TDs a game kind of stud qb. hes good at managing a game very well, makes the throws when he needs to and getsthe wins. the guy simply wins games for us, a qb that can find a way to win > qb that simply puts up good stats. besides his first superbowl game, where heplayed terrible, hes always come through in the clutch. people forget that he played amazing just to get the team into the playoffs that year and how well heplayed in the games leading up to the bowl.

 

[freddypee]

glad for Vick....but as a Madden player who already hates the Eagles and as a Giants fan

 

[swizzc]

LMAO at dilusional steelers fans thinking big ben is the reason why they've won super bowls

 

[fade on you]

swizzc wrote:

---

LMAO at dilusional steelers fans thinking big ben is the reason why they've won super bowls



If anyone is "delusional" its you still trying to deny the truth. Not ANYWHERE did ANY of us state that Ben is solely the reason we won bothSuperbowls....we merely said he had A LOT to do with both of the final drives. Ill say this again since some of you seem to be illiterate.

if it wasn't for his tackle against Harper in 05, or putting that ball in the perfect position for Holmes to catch last year, past 3 defenders they would not have won. Period.
Both of those plays were huge. Was it all because of Ben we won? Hell no. But the QB is the driving force to every team. If you dont think thatscorrect you sir should watch MLB or something, because obviously the NFL isnt for you.

 

[craftsy21]

glad steeler nation showed up to back me up on this one.

I'd really like to know who all these other amazing QB's that are so obviously better than Ben are though... and what everybody is basing that off ofto determine they're so much better... sounds like entirely hearsay to me.

 

[niidawg3]

Originally Posted by DiPlOmAt TDOt

I'm watching the Press Conference now.

I just wanted to ask what are peoples thoughts on Eagles Owner Jeffrey Lurie's comments?

i think Lurie's comments are typical Corporate America Exec comments. He is covering his a.s.s and putting the entire weight of this deal on Vick. I meanwhat does he mean by he has to be proactive with the animal rights folks in the community, when the community organizations dont wanna work with him.

this whole situation gives me a migraine. I really hope Vick gets his skill level back ... all the stars align and he contributes to a Super Bowl win

- some kid killed MANY cats in Florida - i bet you didnt here about it.
- i dont see PRO LIFE peeps outside Louisville protesting about abortions
- i dont see Sanford catching heat for clearly cheating and using state funds for personal reasons.
- Oh, its okay to spend the weekend in the woods with friends shooting and decapacitating deer and birds.

America's moral compass is so warped ... Vick was wrong for what he did ... but for the things this country stomachs ... how the F do you put a man in jailfor 18-23 months and still cant allow him to live his life!!!

Some fool on the TV was like he should be in jail forever, he is a murderer ... dogs are just like humans because they cannot defend themselves.

Oh really?!?!?! Effing hypocrites. And why are there no black protesters? So are there no black dog lovers in America? Not even one?!?!?!

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Originally Posted by Fade On You

So to all you doing the Ben bashing, you tell me why the FACTS would lead you to not put him on a top 5 QB.

You left a fact out:
Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB - 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)

Nice.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by Chester McFloppy

Originally Posted by Fade On You

So to all you doing the Ben bashing, you tell me why the FACTS would lead you to not put him on a top 5 QB.

You left a fact out:
Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB - 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)

Nice.

you can't look at one game and leave the rest out. Why not just break his whole career down into one pass, if you're really going to just ignore 99 percent of his career over one bad game. He didn'tLOSE that game did he?

 

[brrraptors]

people are always gonna bring up that one superbowl performance, regardless of the fact that he was spectacular leading up to that performance.

back to the point of this thread, im on an audio forum and its generally full of mid-aged dudes. the pure hate for vick there is ridiculous. they talk aboutcancelling their nfl sunday ticket, boycotting all eagles games, writing letters etc etc.

how did it come about that Vick became suck a scapegoat for such a wide diversity of fans. its been stressed how there are some that have done wayworse but somehow vick faces the wrath. I think its a case of people wanting to take a "oh im so morally right" stance way out of range.

 

[dacomeup]

Originally Posted by niidawg3

DiPlOmAt TDOt wrote:

---

I'm watching the Press Conference now.

I just wanted to ask what are peoples thoughts on Eagles Owner Jeffrey Lurie's comments?

i think Lurie's comments are typical Corporate America Exec comments. He is covering his a.s.s and putting the entire weight of this deal on Vick. I mean what does he mean by he has to be proactive with the animal rights folks in the community, when the community organizations dont wanna work with him.

this whole situation gives me a migraine. I really hope Vick gets his skill level back ... all the stars align and he contributes to a Super Bowl win

- some kid killed MANY cats in Florida - i bet you didnt here about it.
- i dont see PRO LIFE peeps outside Louisville protesting about abortions
- i dont see Sanford catching heat for clearly cheating and using state funds for personal reasons.
- Oh, its okay to spend the weekend in the woods with friends shooting and decapacitating deer and birds.

America's moral compass is so warped ... Vick was wrong for what he did ... but for the things this country stomachs ... how the F do you put a man in jail for 18-23 months and still cant allow him to live his life!!!

Some fool on the TV was like he should be in jail forever, he is a murderer ... dogs are just like humans because they cannot defend themselves.

Oh really?!?!?! Effing hypocrites. And why are there no black protesters? So are there no black dog lovers in America? Not even one?!?!?!


Church.

 

[fade on you]

Originally Posted by Chester McFloppy

Originally Posted by Fade On You

So to all you doing the Ben bashing, you tell me why the FACTS would lead you to not put him on a top 5 QB.

You left a fact out:
Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB - 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)

Nice.

Nice try but they won that superbowl.

 

[omarlistenin]

vick to the eagles is a great fit for VICK, but not for the team. mcnabb seems to have that "fragile" thing going on with the psyche.

will be awesome to watch vick, mcnabb, and westbrook in a backfield though.

 

[uptown roamer]

Look, I'm not sayin' Ben is a" mediocre" QB or he's a bad player. He's FAR from it.

What I'm sayin' is that I feel he's an inconsistent PLAYER. That's not some horrible thing some of y'all are makin' it out to be.It's obvioulsy worked for him, but if you want his name mentioned in the elite QBs discussion, it's not gonna cut it. I'm sorry.

And I never said there were "all these amazing QBs" in the league that are better than him. I said besides the obvious two, IN MY OPINION, Bress andMcNabb are next. From there, yes, I feel Ben is after them. You act like I'm sayin' there are 10-15 QBs better than he is. That looks like top 5 to me.Not a bad place to be...

What I'm sayin' isn't exactly outlandish. Brees and McNabb are GREAT QBs.

Let me ask you this, why AREN'T they better PLAYERS than he is? Put all the accomplishments and rings aside, tell me based on what they do OVERALL on thefield why they ARE NOT better PLAYERS than Ben.

...And I hate when other Steelers fan use that "but they won that super bowl though" argument to combat the fact he played like #+@% in SB 40.

They obviously won in SPITE of him, right? So, when we're debating on Ben's INDIVIDUAL play, what's your point? Why even say that?