Black Enlightenment Thread. (*Index Added**Book & Movie Club Update on Pg.1)

[gordon gekko 979]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko 979

THE PRESIDENT IS BLACK. DOES THAT MEAN RACISM IS GONE? NO. BUT IT MEANS IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED AND BLACK, IT WON'T MATTER. JESUS CHRIST. STOP COMPLAINING

why does everybody think that the fact that we have a black president has changed so much about racism. it really hasnt changed very much, people are still just as racist as they were before he was elected president.

but why do you both insist in trolling around in this thread? if you dont agree with what is going on in here, then just avoid this thread & there wont be any issues for you.

i clearly stated:
DOES THAT MEAN RACISM IS GONE? NO. BUT IT MEANS IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED AND BLACK, IT WON'T MATTER.

and why are you acting like blacks aren't racist themselves? blacks are just as racist as any other ethnic group, you guys inferring blacks are not racistis laughable.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Who inferred anything like that?

We haven't even been able to get to the American social dichotomy or make any definite statements American history because you and DYK are so hellbent ondeterring any discussion related to Africa.

Intelligent opposign viewpoints are always welcome but at least wait until the topic is brought up. You two are showing ignorance, intolerance and impatiencewith everything that you have posted thus far. Crying about "black supremacy" (which has not been advocated by anyone here) but imploring everyone tosubmit to white supremacy in its various forms.

Give it a break.

 

[atlien seeko]

Wow.. I've missed this thread for 8 pages?! Time for some catching up...

 

[airphilippines]

Do you think affirmitive action is still needed today?Most of the people I know believe it isn't, and I lack the knowledge to thoroughly debate it.

 

[sorkoram]

Originally Posted by AirPhilippines

Do you think affirmitive action is still needed today?Most of the people I know believe it isn't, and I lack the knowledge to thoroughly debate it.

Simply put, it catered more towards women than anybody and still does, but I think we should get rid of it. Seeing as how we are steadily gainingground within the social psyche of race interactions, it is only an hindrance in the mindset of most who want to play on an even field.

 

[gordon gekko 979]

Originally Posted by I R Andre

DYK was right on the money with the analogy of jews in the united states

If you only knew how wrong you are because slavery didn't exist in Ancient Egypt. There's no archaeological evidence for Jews ever being slaves.

Jews have never been slaves?

They have been isolated andkicked out of many areas throughout history, but they still succeed. you know why? because they're strong people, and dont think their faiths are sealeddue to their heritage. u guys blaming slavery for failures is laughable. why dont you address how democrats glamorize being a single black mom? huh? or howabout intelligence isn't appreciated in the community? or how black woman love to mess with guys who aren't going anything with their lives, and thusdiscouraging intelligent brothers?

 

[rexanglorum]

On this topic I would say that there has been a deliberate attempt by some to either marginalize or completely erase the accomplishments of blacks from thehistories. At the same time, some people have been very willing to be loose with the historical facts in order to greater embellish black accomplishments.

The white supremacists in academia, who claimed that the only blacks in Egypt were slaves, got it wrong and those in the "Kemet Movement" who claimthat all knowledge emanated from blacks also have in wrong.

Much of history is the, or at least much of the history of progress, is a history of ideas travelling vast distances, cultures evolving and adapting the bestideas available to them and human minds collaborating across vast swaths of time and space.


More broadly, I say to anyone who seeks to stake you personal sense of self worth, you identity and your views on the world today, entirely on the details onancient history is committing a major error. The details of all history but ancient history in particular are difficult to decipher. New Archaeological finds,new genetic studies and revelations of pivotal mistranslations can complete obliterate old ideas and replace them with radically new ones.

While history is important, we should not stake everything on it because truths about history which we value so dearly fluctuate almost as often as theweather.

 

[0cks]

I don't see why some people are so focused on Haze's notoriety on here and are not addressing the topic at hand. It's like some personal vendettaagainst him. If you must, you should solve that through PM's. If this thread brings out insecurities in regards to your own culture then that's on you.

 

[danikerhino]

I remember in African American Studies my professor told us about how Africans were one of the first to establish themselves in the Americas (besides Asians ofcourse). I don't really want to post too much so I'll just post a link, it's about West Africans traveling to South America before the Europeans:Evidence about Africans influence in Olmec Religion

On the side-note, I'll try to find more sources on the internet to support the claim.

 

[cj863]

My dude said black women love to mess with men who aren't doing anything with their lives!

so I guess women of other races don't mess with menthat aren't doing anything right?

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Whos down for the Book & Movie Club?

We'll vote on a book or movie of relevance, watch/read the subject matter and come back to build on the material with some good discussion.

I know that most people are busy and what not, so we can just pick out excerpts of books if necessary and keep the lines of discussion open for those whoaren't able to comment right away.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

ericberry i have said a lot directly to you but you have failed to respond...

you guys called my posts stupid but have failed to refute my claims.

You are a hypocrite. You have kept ignoring my claims, so why should others address yours.

 

[danikerhino]

For some reason it won't let me edit my original post so here's another source:

A better read.

 

[airant23]

YO!

On this topic I would say that there has been a deliberate attempt by some to either marginalize or completely erase the accomplishments of Blacks from the histories. At the same time, some people have been very willing to be loose with the historical facts in order to greater embellish Black accomplishments.
You could've stopped there.

(I capitalize race; i.e. Black, White, etc.)

DF!!!

 

[i r andre]

Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko 979

Originally Posted by I R Andre

DYK was right on the money with the analogy of jews in the united states

If you only knew how wrong you are because slavery didn't exist in Ancient Egypt. There's no archaeological evidence for Jews ever being slaves.

Jews have never been slaves?

They have been isolated and kicked out of many areas throughout history, but they still succeed. you know why? because they're strong people, and dont think their faiths are sealed due to their heritage. u guys blaming slavery for failures is laughable. why dont you address how democrats glamorize being a single black mom? huh? or how about intelligence isn't appreciated in the community? or how black woman love to mess with guys who aren't going anything with their lives, and thus discouraging intelligent brothers?



I'm not addressing that other bull #%@# you're talking cuz I'm not getting drawn into an argument about nonsense. Jews were never slaves they werea group of migrant workers. They had to work to survive, but it wasn't slavery. I know more about Ancient Egypt than any one in this thread and slavery theway its thought of now didn't exist in Ancient Egypt. There's also no evidence that they were ever slaves. The kind of labor that the Jews did it sortalike a person who is forced to work at Mcdonald's every day to survive and to eat they don't HAVE to work at Mcdonald's but they need to in orderto survive.

 

[kix4kix]

So sharecropping would be more accurate?

 

[n o r e a g a]

Now you know damn well if someone made a White Enlightenment thread all hell would break loose. NT is crazy sometimes.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Yeah the Pyramids were constructed by Master technicians, artisans, architects and engineers, as well as voluntary seasonal workers. There is no acceptedevidence of Jewish slavery in ancient Egypt and definitely none that indicates there were millions of them who were persecuted in the land and then fled theircaptors en masse....If anyone can find some proof please direct me to it because I would like to see it.

Slavery as we have know it in America did not even exist in Ancient Egypt. Many "slaves" volunteered themselves into slavery to pay debt and werefreed once the debt was satisfied.

Dre is right

 

[rexanglorum]

Haze, are you willing to take the bad along with the good of African history.

I agree with you that so many blacks in the US and elsewhere are unaware of their cultural accomplishments. In the 18th and 19th centuries there was concertedeffort to remove black accomplishments from history. It was especially true in marginalizing the accomplishments of Egypt, because of Egypt's role in thedevelopment in European civilization. What is ironic is that in trying to correct for the lack of recognition, the accomplishments of blacks are greatlyembellish to the point of removing credibility in the eyes of many. The other tact has been to portray Africans as a sort of noble savage and by completelydemphasizing the role of violence in African history and portraying them almost as children whose enslavement and subjugation, while tragic, was almostinevitable.

The Egyptians gave Western civilization many things (according to some scholars writing began in Egypt and was adopted by Mesopotamians) but they also) butthey did engage in imperialism toward their neighbors. Blacks did what Europeans never did and that was to develop agriculture and iron working completely ontheir own (Ancient Europeans got most of the rudiments of their civilizations from contact with Asia and North Africa) but that farming and ability to makeiron tools also allowed the Bantu people to conquer and colonize every part of Sub Saharan Africa centuries before any European was able to conquer nonEuropeans. Slavery, subjugation of women, torture and every nasty aspect of civilization was just as common in Africa as it was elsewhere.

The noble savage view of Africans as well as the Kemet view that all knowledge and virtue is monopolized by Africans are both demaning to blacks. The Kemetvierw is simply ridiculous, the anger is justified over the fact that Egyptology was mutilated far worse than the Sphinx' nose but anger is no excuse forsloppy scholarship. The neo noble savage view is popular because humanity currently values pacifism and environmental sustainability but that view makes blacksseem like people who are not real people, it makes blacks seem child like at best and like benign sub human at best.

The best way to look at African history is dispassionately, without a priori conclusions, without using history to frame current issues and byacknowledging that because we all came from Africa, all people, African and non African have the same intrinsic flaw and virtues as everyone else. Africanaccomplishments can stand on their own so long as history is presented without any particular bias or agenda.



Thanks for making this post because African history is so rarely talked about and when it is the material of discussion are based on glib stereotypes, snippetsfrom the news, charity concerts, quasi mythology about ancient Africans or antiquated historical accounts either written or tainted by white supremacy.

 

[sorkoram]

Originally Posted by N O R E A G A

Now you know damn well if someone made a White Enlightenment thread all hell would break loose. NT is crazy sometimes.

I'd actually be interested in that discussion.

 

[kix4kix]

Jomo Kenyatta, Mau Mau revolution. Great things in African past that so many know so little of.

Haile selassie, Idi Amin

There should be a basic reading list some good ones I have read:
Invisible Man
Native Son
Africa-Forgot the author, but basically a brief history on forgotten kingdoms/heroes.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

Haze, are you willing to take the bad along with the good of African history.

I agree with you that so many blacks in the US and elsewhere are unaware of their cultural accomplishments. In the 18th and 19th centuries there was concerted effort to remove black accomplishments from history. It was especially true in marginalizing the accomplishments of Egypt, because of Egypt's role in the development in European civilization. What is ironic is that in trying to correct for the lack of recognition, the accomplishments of blacks are greatly embellish to the point of removing credibility in the eyes of many. The other tact has been to portray Africans as a sort of noble savage and by completely demphasizing the role of violence in African history and portraying them almost as children whose enslavement and subjugation, while tragic, was almost inevitable.

The Egyptians gave Western civilization many things (according to some scholars writing began in Egypt and was adopted by Mesopotamians) but they also) but they did engage in imperialism toward their neighbors. Blacks did what Europeans never did and that was to develop agriculture and iron working completely on their own (Ancient Europeans got most of the rudiments of their civilizations from contact with Asia and North Africa) but that farming and ability to make iron tools also allowed the Bantu people to conquer and colonize every part of Sub Saharan Africa centuries before any European was able to conquer non Europeans. Slavery, subjugation of women, torture and every nasty aspect of civilization was just as common in Africa as it was elsewhere.

The noble savage view of Africans as well as the Kemet view that all knowledge and virtue is monopolized by Africans are both demaning to blacks. The Kemet vierw is simply ridiculous, the anger is justified over the fact that Egyptology was mutilated far worse than the Sphinx' nose but anger is no excuse for sloppy scholarship. The neo noble savage view is popular because humanity currently values pacifism and environmental sustainability but that view makes blacks seem like people who are not real people, it makes blacks seem child like at best and like benign sub human at best.

The best way to look at African history is dispassionately, without a priori conclusions, without using history to frame current issues and by acknowledging that because we all came from Africa, all people, African and non African have the same intrinsic flaw and virtues as everyone else. African accomplishments can stand on their own so long as history is presented without any particular bias or agenda.



Thanks for making this post because African history is so rarely talked about and when it is the material of discussion are based on glib stereotypes, snippets from the news, charity concerts, quasi mythology about ancient Africans or antiquated historical accounts either written or tainted by white supremacy.

Oh most definitely Rex...any serious intellectual endeavor seeks to uncover the truth and create progress, not to sugarcoat and impart biasedinformation to an eager audience. This thread isn't about Romanticism, its meant to be a serious discussion of history and global social construction,through the lens of African people. We are going to talk about Shaka Zulu and the hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by his armies, the sale of Africanprisoners of War to Europeans, black on black crime in America and a host of other issues.

Most "blacks" openly and passionately discuss the ugly side of our current and past situations...its when we start factually airing out Europeanlaundry that the problems arise. I don't think I have ever seen a "white" person fully accept or constructively contribute to a discussion ofEuropean transgressions, past or present here on NT....maybe once in all my years here. Its always a sarcastic remark about blaming the white man for all offour problems.

All I am trying to do is present factual information and open up the much needed lines of debate.

I would have to disagree with the assertion that history shouldn't be used to frame the present and that African history should be a"dispassionate" science.

"For Africa to me is more than a glamorous fact. It is a historical truth. No man can know where he is going unless he knows exactly where he has been and exactly how he arrived at his present place."
-- Maya Angelou

No nationality or ethnicity is dispassionate about their history and neither should we be. Also the only way to properly understand the present is by analyzingthe past events, which have brought us to the present moment. If you are lost, trying to figure out where you are...you first need to understand how you got toyour current location in order to get back on track. The recollection of history needs to be unbiased, holistic and factual but not dispassionate and detachedfrom the present.

 

[0cks]

Patrice Lamumba more so than Idi Amin though

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by DaNiKeRhiNo

For some reason it won't let me edit my original post so here's another source:

A better read.

Good link fam.

Many people are in the dark about African travels to the Americas, hundreds of years before Columbus or any European.

Try to highlight some facts and points of interest from the article though, so that people won't just skip past it.

I'm going to try to get back to that topic if I have the time and can remember.


kix4kix you up for the Movie and Book club?

Anyone else?

 

[coolnificent]

interesting