Black Culture Discussion Thread

Maximus Meridius said:
:lol: if deuce king deuce king bout to campaign for somebody who has a TERRIBLE record as Cali's attorney general. She might the best example of a house slave today.

She was against releasing non-violent prisoners cuz her and her crew wanted to keep them in prison to work for free. The prisoners do all the work around prisons and they fight the wildfires in Cali.
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Everyone should read this, it is a detailed, sourced breakdown of her record which is at best mixed. I do not support some of the **** she did but throwing out hyperbolic statements doesn't help the discussion...

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/...is-president-campaign-criminal-justice-record

This is why I always say people should ignore folk like Tariq. Nuanced detail discussion is something dudes like him seems allergic to.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Everyone should read this, it is a detailed, sourced breakdown of her record which is at best mixed. I do not support some of the **** she did but throwing out hyperbolic statements doesn't help the discussion...

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/...is-president-campaign-criminal-justice-record

This is why I always say people should ignore folk like Tariq. Nuanced detail discussion is something dudes like him seems allergic to.
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Nothing I said was hyperbolic. She still sketchy as hell.

"A close examination of Harris’s record shows it’s filled with contradictions. She pushed for programs that helped people find jobs instead of putting them in prison, but also fought to keep people in prison even after they were proved innocent. She refused to pursue the death penalty against a man who killed a police officer, but also defended California’s death penalty system in court. She implemented training programs to address police officers’ racial biases, but also resisted calls to get her office to investigate certain police shootings."

But what seem like contradictions may reflect a balancing act. Harris’s parents worked on civil rights causes, and she came from a background well aware of the excesses of the criminal justice system — but in office, she had to play the role of a prosecutor and California’s lawyer. She started in an era when “tough on crime” politics were popular across party lines — but she rose to national prominence as criminal justice reform started to take off nationally. She had an eye on higher political office as support for criminal justice reform became de rigueur for Democrats — but she still had to work as California’s top law enforcement official"

"For example, Harris’s office fought to release fewer prisoners, even after the US Supreme Court found that overcrowding in California prisons was so bad that it amounted to unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment. At one point, her lawyers argued that the state couldn’t release some prisoners because it would deplete its pool for prison labor — but Harris quickly clarified that she was not aware her office was going with that argument until it was reported by media."

This is literally what I just said. That piece is filled with contradictions, her history is terrible. No other way to spin it. If you believe that she was unaware of what HER office was arguing that's real naive. Her and her team have been on a clean up job for a while so she can look good to voters.
 
"Still, Harris did embrace some “tough” policies while in the district attorney’s office, such as an anti-truancy program that targeted parents of kids who skipped school and threatened them with prosecution and punishment to push them to get their children to class."

This women ain't it :lol: :smh:
 
Maximus Meridius said:
Nothing I said was hyperbolic. She still sketchy as hell.

"A close examination of Harris’s record shows it’s filled with contradictions. She pushed for programs that helped people find jobs instead of putting them in prison, but also fought to keep people in prison even after they were proved innocent. She refused to pursue the death penalty against a man who killed a police officer, but also defended California’s death penalty system in court. She implemented training programs to address police officers’ racial biases, but also resisted calls to get her office to investigate certain police shootings."

But what seem like contradictions may reflect a balancing act. Harris’s parents worked on civil rights causes, and she came from a background well aware of the excesses of the criminal justice system — but in office, she had to play the role of a prosecutor and California’s lawyer. She started in an era when “tough on crime” politics were popular across party lines — but she rose to national prominence as criminal justice reform started to take off nationally. She had an eye on higher political office as support for criminal justice reform became de rigueur for Democrats — but she still had to work as California’s top law enforcement official"

"For example, Harris’s office fought to release fewer prisoners, even after the US Supreme Court found that overcrowding in California prisons was so bad that it amounted to unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment. At one point, her lawyers argued that the state couldn’t release some prisoners because it would deplete its pool for prison labor — but Harris quickly clarified that she was not aware her office was going with that argument until it was reported by media."

This is literally what I just said. That piece is filled with contradictions, her history is terrible. No other way to spin it. If you believe that she was unaware of what HER office was arguing that's real naive. Her and her team have been on a clean up job for a while so she can look good to voters.
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I was more talking about calling her a house negro and saying she is a mascot for white Supremacy. Which were hyperbolic

You are literally quote paragraphs that juxtapose her bad positions with a good, clearly showing he record is mixed but acting like she is Jeff Sessions Remix is simply not true. There are tons of things from her past white supremacists and the tough on crime crowd hate. That is even before we discuss her positions outside of criminal justice.

You can call me naive because I didn't reach a corner solution like you, but you seem to have a very strong case of confirmation bias.
 
RustyShackleford said:
I was more talking about calling her a house negro and saying she is a mascot for white Supremacy. Which were hyperbolic

You are literally quote paragraphs that juxtapose her bad positions with a good, clearly showing he record is mixed but acting like she is Jeff Sessions Remix is simply not true. There are tons of things from her past white supremacists and the tough on crime crowd hate. That is even before we discuss her positions outside of criminal justice.

You can call me naive because I didn't reach a corner solution like you, but you seem to have a very strong case of confirmation bias.
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She's full of terrible contradictions. That ain't confirmation bias, what you posted it shows that.

You often go soft on democrats that put up a good face. You did the same with Bill and Hilary.
 
Listen just to clarify I am not defending Harris' ********. I don't support it and I sympathize with people that sees it as disqualifying.

On the aggregate a case could be made Harris is a good actor. But people think on the margin. If they think your next will be the wrong one, they don't want to travel down that path with you.

That just how it is.
 
RustyShackleford said:
You are literally quote paragraphs that juxtapose her bad positions with a good, clearly showing he record is mixed but acting like she is Jeff Sessions Remix is simply not true
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This.
She wouldn't be my first choice out of the Democratic field, but to literally sit the election out if she were to win the nomination?

Especially when we know what the MAGA crowd is capable of?

I have really underestimated the apathy of the American voter.
 
Maximus Meridius said:
She's full of terrible contradictions. That ain't confirmation bias, what you posted it shows that.

You often go soft on democrats that put up a good face. You did the same with Bill and Hilary.
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All I tried to show you are not considering the full picture you want to grab the moral high ground and label someone soft.

Confirmation bias I was pointing to was you habit of only focusing on things that agree with your previously beliefs. You called her all kinds of things by pointing to specific examples. I said it was hyperbolic because her record was mixed. Then now you move the goal to her record contradicts itself. Yes it does, because it is mixed.

Ask nawghtyhare nawghtyhare , before anyone else was on here talking down on her, and he was a fan, I'm the one that told him she was not it by calling attention to her past.

So spare me with this soft and naive steez. God forbid I read and research deeper than a few one-sided sources.

Maybe I should be outraged at her dancing to Cardi, or be pissed about a hot sauce joke too. In hopes of not being soft.
 
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Let's also add that her record on criminal justice reform as a senator is very different than her history as CA's top cop:

In the Senate, Harris has consistently backed reforms, although her leadership role on these issues hasn’t been as extensive as that of some other senators.

She introduced a bail reform bill with Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) that would encourage states to reform or replace their bail systems. This is a big part of the criminal justice system: By most estimates, hundreds of thousands of people are in jail right now, before they’ve been convicted of a crime, just because they can’t afford to pay their bail. A lot of advocacy work is now dedicated to getting rid of money bail almost entirely, which some places, like Washington, DC, have done with success. But the bill hasn’t moved far in Congress — although it’s now part of Harris’s presidential campaign platform.

In a team-up with Sens. Cory Booker (D-NJ) and Tim Scott (R-SC), Harris also introduced a bill that would for the first time make lynching a federal crime, which has long been a goal for racial justice and civil rights activists. The bill passed the Senate but didn’t get through the House.
Harris also voted for the First Step Act, the most significant federal criminal justice reform bill to get through Congress in decades — although she tweeted at length about the bill’s shortcomings. She signed on to Booker’s marijuana legalization bill, and voted for a bill that legalized hemp.
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nawghtyhare said:
imo having a mixed record is ok
BUT
some things can outweigh others
and i think her bad outweighs her good
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That is a fair position to have.

But just so the people in the back hear. When you were a strong Harris supporter, who was the person that brought your attention to the messed up ****?
 
RustyShackleford said:
All I tried to show you are not considering the full picture you want to grab the moral high ground and label someone soft.

Confirmation bias I was pointing to was you habit of only focusing on things that agree with your previously beliefs. You called her all kinds of things by pointing to specific examples. I said it was hyperbolic because her record was mixed. Then now you move the goal to her record contradicts itself. Yes it does, because it is mixed.

Ask nawghtyhare nawghtyhare , before anyone else was on here talking down on her, and he was a fan, I'm the one that told him she was not it by calling attention to her past.

So spare me with this soft and naice steez. Go forbid I read and research deeper than a few one sided sources.

Maybe I should be outraged at her dancing to Cardi, or be pissed about a hot sauce joke too. In hopes of not being soft.
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Whether you wanna say her record is mixed, contradictions, either way you put it her history is terrible. She was activity destroying non-violent peoples lives. That ain't hyperbolic, that's serious ****. That's why I said you go soft on democrats. You was looking ways to excuse Bill and Hilary's past actions.

I ain't said **** about her dancing to Cardi since me and DC was talking it, never brought up a hot sauce joke. I'm talking about what she did as a attorney general in her state.
 
Maximus Meridius said:
Whether you wanna say her record is mixed, contradictions, either way you put it her history is terrible. She was activity destroying non-violent peoples lives. That ain't hyperbolic, that's serious ****. That's why I said you go soft on democrats. You was looking ways to excuse Bill and Hilary's past actions.

I ain't said **** about her dancing to Cardi since me and DC was talking it, never brought up a hot sauce joke. I'm talking about what she did as a attorney general in her state.
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-I laid out the comments I thought were hyperbolic. So you claim I said it in regards to Harris' actions is at best a strawman, and worst a lie.

-The thing about excusing Hillary and especially Bill is ********. Plain and simple ********. And I this point you a just throwing it out as a red herring. I disagreed with you framing of events, but if someone doesn't agree with you 100% they are somehow excusing ****. Even when you are clearly wrong about a fact, or even I try to put things into context, if I don't agree with your premise you just want to handwave what I say as excusing something.

-So what if you stop talking about the Cardi thing, the example fit so I used it. And you brought up the hot sauce thing to me in the past in the political thread, so I used it. The point of those comments was to show how petty and unimportant some of the things you bring up in the pursuit of not being "soft" on Democrats. Not to downplay your assertions or points about Harris' record.

And I know her actions are serious. I have never stated otherwise.
 
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RustyShackleford said:
-I laid out the comments I thought were hyperbolic. So you claim I said it in regards to Harris' actions is at best a strawman, and worst a lie.

-The thing about excusing Hillary and especially Bill is bull****. Plain and simple bull****. And I this point you a just throwing it out as a red herring. I disagreed with you framing of events, but if someone doesn't agree with you 100% they are somehow excusing ****. Even when you are clearly wrong about a fact, or even I try to put things in context.

-So what if you stop talking about the Cardi thing, the example fit so I used it. And you brought up the hot sauce thing to me in the past in the political thread, so I used it. The point of those comments was to show how petty and unimportant some of the things you bring up in the pursuit of not being "soft" on Democrats. Not to downplay your assertions or points about Harris' record.
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That don't even make sense. You stuck on Cardi B (something that was over) and a hot sauce comment that I don't remember making from what 3 years ago? You supposed to be the serious political guy. :lol:

I'm talking about real **** that she did and you brought up nonsense but I'm talking about unimportant things? Aight.

Fact of the matter is her record is awful, can't spin it.
 
Maximus Meridius said:
That don't even make sense. You stuck on Cardi B (something that was over) and a hot sauce comment that I don't remember making from what 3 years ago? You supposed to be the serious political guy. :lol:

I'm talking about real **** that she did and you brought up nonsense but I'm talking about unimportant things? Aight.

Fact of the matter is her record is awful, can't spin it.
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Dude, it was one line in a long post.

I am not the one stuck on it, you are.

You are just trying to misdirect and handwave now, and as always ignoring what is being said in an attempt claim the moral high ground. No one is downplaying what she did.

So again, spare me.
 
Maximus Meridius said:
I'm talking about real **** that she did
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Just half of it. If you throw in the garbage the positive she did and only focus on the negative, and don't even take into account her record as a senator, of course her record will look horrible.

Let's just remember that there is a lot of **** on the table, the most portant being that with Trump in the White House for a second term, the Supreme Court might go further to the right (RBG isn't looking too good); Miller and Ross will be writing executing policies to exclude minorities from being properly counted for at least ten years; more law-and-order judges will be confirmed; Betsy Bae will make sure that only wealthy people have access to a proper education (and blacks will suffer more from that); and much more policies with negative outcomes for minorities.

I know you don't like to hear the whole "well lose less with Democrats in power" but right now, this society traveling backwards, and before you can move forward, you have to brake.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Dude, it was one line in a long post.

I am not the one stuck on it, you are.

You are just trying to misdirect and handwave now, and as always ignoring what is being said in an attempt claim the moral high ground. No one is downplaying what she did.

So again, spare me.
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I didn't misdirect anything, YOU brought the unimportant things.

If you're not downplaying what she did then again there was nothing "hyperbolic" about what I said. She's done terrible **** as attorney general. There is no "mixed" when you're in that type of position to dictate peoples lives.
 
Maximus Meridius said:
I didn't misdirect anything, YOU brought the unimportant things.

If you're not downplaying what she did then again there was nothing "hyperbolic" about what I said. She's done terrible **** as attorney general. There is no "mixed" when you're in that type of position to dictate peoples lives.
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Please read in context why I said; you called me soft, I pushed back directly on that assertion. If my point went over your head, then fine, that your issue, not mine.

Calling her record mixed just means she did some good stuff and some bad stuff. It does excuse the bad stuff. Relative to say someone like Jeff Sessions, a true hardcore agent of white supremacy I judged your ranting, and specific comments as hyperbolic. Hell she is not even John Ashcroft bad. But again, god forbid I look at her whole record on criminal justice and beyond to form an opinion on her. And god forbid I compare her to relative to the entire system.

If you want to be like Nawghty and say on aggregate the bad outweigh the good, then that's fair. But miss me with implying I am trying to absolve her of the wrong she did,
 
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