[::2009 Champion LAKERS OFF-SEASON THREAD Vol. Boring Non-News Days Causing In-Thread Tension::]

[holdenmichael]

And as for the Kobe contract situation, we live and die by him. Management got us into this situation not Kobe. I can't be mad if he decides not to take a paycut which I think is most likely but I would rather he did.
My sentiments exactly. Kobe taking a pay cut helps management make up for inconsistent and injured players they signed (Walton, Bynum, Sasha),not Odom and Ariza who have also been part of that group. All of these guys should be getting paid fair market value.

He won't lose a dime if they restructure the deal. He will make all that money back on the back end of the deal and hell he could still make 20 MIL A SEASON....
Where are you getting this from? This isn't a restructuring of a deal, it's signing a completely new contract this or next season.


KG had yet to win a ring when he took less money. The Spurs are a small market team, they have less money to go around. Neither KG or Duncan are on a teammaking as much money as the Lakers.

Management can only do some much if some dumb team gives Ariza 10 a year and some dumb team gives LO 12 to 14 mil a year.
Are you stating that you expect Kobe to take a pay cut so that the Lakers can match over priced contracts for these guys? Let them walk.

Buss has $52M invested in Kobe, Pau, and 'Drew. Two of those guys have provided a major return on his investment. Barring injuries to Kobe and Pau,I'm going to blame Bynum, not Kobe, if the Lakers let Odom walk and don't play in the Finals. Pointing the blame at Kobe for taking the money he'searned is the wrong idea.

 

[darthska]

CP1708:

---

Ok, we an talk about this now, cuz I coulda swore I was talkin about this last week and ya'll told me to shut up.

Last week was 'bask in the glory of a championship' week; this week resumes our regularly scheduled summer of armchair quarterbacking ourbeloved franchise.

 

[holdenmichael]

Considering that he wouldn't get along with Shaq anymore (and Shaq wouldn't get along with him, either, so chill with the responses about it not being all his fault), and that cost us potential championships and resigned us to mediocrity, I definitely think he should restructure his deal to allow the key players to all return.

The team already made a choice for you when you (and Shaq) forced the team to choose either ou or not you; now make a choice for the team.

This again?

If being able to re-sign only one of Ariza and Odom is Kobe's fault, then the debacle that was the Shaq trade is completely Shaq's fault.

In reality, the Lakers then are doing the same thing the Lakers are now, choosing what's best for their bottom line. Any failure lies squarely on theirshoulders.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

we all know shaq wants to come back with us...he wants more jewelry...i just dont see the Lakers/kobe wanting him back though...but its only fitting he retiresas a Laker though

 

[darthska]

holdenmichael:

---

Considering that he wouldn't get along with Shaq anymore (and Shaq wouldn't get along with him, either, so chill with the responses about it not being all his fault), and that cost us potential championships and resigned us to mediocrity, I definitely think he should restructure his deal to allow the key players to all return.

The team already made a choice for you when you (and Shaq) forced the team to choose either ou or not you; now make a choice for the team.

This again?

If being able to re-sign only one of Ariza and Odom is Kobe's fault, then the debacle that was the Shaq trade is completely Shaq's fault.
Until those first 2 facts are somehow erased from history, I don't see any reason to pretend they didn't happen. 'This again?'Yes, because they still happened.

What if failing able to re-sign both Ariza and Odom isn't necessarily Kobe's fault, but rather, signing both of them is something that he could enable?

fact: Kobe and Shaq feuded
fact: the Lakers suffered because of their unwillingness to get along
fact: Kobe can do something to enable the signings of both Ariza and Odom together

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

CP1708:

---

Ok, we an talk about this now, cuz I coulda swore I was talkin about this last week and ya'll told me to shut up.

Last week was 'bask in the glory of a championship' week; this week resumes our regularly scheduled summer of armchair quarterbacking our beloved franchise.

I was done basking before the ceremony was over. I move quick, think quick, talk quick, no time for last year, all about next. 15 was great, but is nownothing to me, 16 on the mind, back to it, back to it.

Holden, I see what you sayin, I just don't care. Kobe can help the team out. Kobe SHOULD help the team out. I don't care about bad contracts fromtwo years ago, or 3 years, or last year or in 1988, I care about tomorrow. Kobe could make it ALOT easier on everyone to simply take a new deal, still getpaid as he should, but keep the window open longer to win more chips. Kobe a damn fool if he thinks that just winning this one ring by himself makes him sospecial. Magic got 5, and if Kobe even wants to be mentioned as all time greatest Laker, then he needs that one for the thumb. Gotta happen. And itwon't be happening without Ariza and/or Odom. Those 2 MUST remain.

Bynum can and should improve, sure, and that will help the team. Farmar should get better. Sasha may get back to last year Sasha (and he most certainly willif Ariza does walk, due to increased minutes again) but still, we will not be the elite of the elite. We'll be good, yes, but not elite.

Kobe is not going to get better, he is going to get worse. The decline has already started. And over the course of his contract, he will get further intothat decline by the minute. HE NEEDS THAT HELP. So taking every penny he can muster, is not the way to surround himself with help.
He needs to be a forward thinker. He is not going to enjoy sitting at home watching Bron, or the Celts, or Melo or whoever else winning a title while hecounts his cash. Especially when deep down he'll know that if he only took a little less money, the team could easily keep it's core together foranother 3-4 years and hold their destiny in their own hands. If Bron is gonna win a title, fine, but make him beat us, not go out in the first round becausewe don't have enough players.

Kobe already tasted that crap. He knows it sucked. So I don't see why he would ever want to be in that position again. Take the few less dollars, getall your weapons back, look like a good guy, get some good PR run outta that, help improve the image you're worked so hard to improve, quiet the haters,keep stallin the other stars nippin at your heels, and for the love of God, let CP rest a little. I deserve it.

Then after it's all said and done, maybe we get another chip for him, he'll get a peice of the org like Magic did, he'll have 30,000 points, be oneof the top 5-7 players EVER, and we can all move on with life. He stalls this group like he may or may not have done in 04, guess what his leagacy will be? What MIGHT have been. TWICE!!!! Twice in his career he will have helped stall longer runs for championships and while 4 may sound nice to some players, itwon't sound as nice as the 5 he mighta had, or the 6, or even 7. Now he'd be in rare air. 4 is just the same as Steve Kerr.

So Kob, if you're readin this, friggin take less money. I know Buss makes a bazillion dollars more then you do. I know he's greedy and spends on his21 year old white women. I'm sure you can appreciate that more then the next guy, but swallow that for a minute, and think bigger picture here. Get Trevand LO back in here for a couple more years. Bring home #16. Then we'll talk about you vs Magic. Not a moment before.
Take 18-20 mil, call it a day.

You'll thank me later.

Case closed, what's next on the agenda?

 

[darthska]

CP1708:

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Case closed, what's next on the agenda?
Is murder to get out of an overbudgeted contract still illegal? *I was looking in Luke's direction when I typed that.*

 

[holdenmichael]

Clearly, I'm not denying that that Shaq and Kobe feuded. I question the relevance of their feud to re-signing Ariza and Odom and the idea that the Lakersmade a sacrifice by choosing Kobe in the summer of '04.

Here, like the past, it seems you'd prefer to lay the blame on Kobe when other parties have more control in the situation.

fact: Buss can afford to sign both players regardless of how much he's paying Kobe

 

[darthska]

How am I laying the blame on Kobe when I asked if it were instead a matter of Kobe simply being able to enable something that I have never said would be hisresponsibility?

How does it seem that I am laying the blame on Kobe when I've said nothing that places only blame on him?

It seems to me that I have said something that can be interpreted as 'Kobe bashing', and a Kobe fan has interpreted what I've said as exactly that.

Take 'seems' and throw it out the window.

I said that I all but guarantee that Kobe won't do what he could do to bring in Lamar and Ariza. "Well that seems like you're saying..." No.It seems like I'm saying that I don't think Kobe will enable the signing of both.

I said that the feuding was partially his fault and the franchise chose him in that situation, and that he should choose the team this time around. "Wellthat seems like you're saying that if he doesn't choose the team..." No. It seems like I'm saying that the team chose him before (let Shaqwalk), and it would be nice if he made a team decision now. "Yeah, but that seems like you're blaming Kobe..." No. Stop.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by holdenmichael

Clearly, I'm not denying that that Shaq and Kobe feuded. I question the relevance of their feud to re-signing Ariza and Odom and the idea that the Lakers made a sacrifice by choosing Kobe in the summer of '04.

Here, like the past, it seems you'd prefer to lay the blame on Kobe when other parties have more control in the situation.

fact: Buss can afford to sign both players regardless of how much he's paying Kobe

Yes, Buss can afford. But who would want to pay 40 million dollars for something that costs 20? Dollar for Dollar ain't no joke.

And I will place blame on Kobe. That's what the position entails. He wants to reap the credit for the title, he the one on all the magazine covers. Hethe one on all the talk shows, at Disneyland, he the one gettin all the credit. So he takes the blame. That's what front line guys do.

Pau ain't at fault if Trevor and Lamar walk. Pau deal is signed and delvered. Walton ain't gonna be blamed (ok,maybe a little), but his deal is done. Bynum is a done deal. None of these dudes can do anything to help sign two key players.

Kobe Bryant can. He can ABSOLUTLEY help make this happen.

Will he?

We'll see.

But don't take all the credit and be the happy guy and then run and cry when things go the wrong way. That ain't leader. I will defend Kobe when Isee something goin against him that is not his fault. I'll chime in, I'll get called a stan, I don't care, that's my business. But when itinterupts my team, nah, I'm not on Kobe's side. I want Kobe to win rings, I want him to set records, I want him to be great........because he's aLaker. The minute he ain't a Laker, then I could care less what he does. And if as a Laker he wants to win titles, then he needs to do what he can do tomake that happen. I'm not asking the guy to make 8.50 an hour here. 18 mill is ok livin. Hell, if 20 mill is ok, then fine. But don't ask for 27. Don't ask for 24. Don't NOT opt out to help the team, do what you can do. I'm sure he can talk with Trev, or Lamar and see what they think, talkit over with his agent, talk to Phil, amke sure they are ALL on the same page and ALL come back for another run.

It's real simple. He holds the cards to make it so. The only one who can make it not simple, is Kobe himself. So blame is what he'll get unless hemakes this right.

 

[holdenmichael]

More facts:

- we don't know how much the market is going to set the price at for Ariza and Odom
- we don't know what Buss is willing to pay them
- we don't know how much Buss would have to save on Kobe to pay Ariza AND Odom
- we don't know whether or not Buss expects Kobe to take less in order to pay Ariza AND Odom

 

[goukiteg]

Originally Posted by holdenmichael

More facts:

- we don't know how much the market is going to set the price at for Ariza and Odom
- we don't know what Buss is willing to pay them
- we don't know how much Buss would have to save on Kobe to pay Ariza AND Odom
- we don't know whether or not Buss expects Kobe to take less in order to pay Ariza AND Odom

The facts are, we don't know the facts.

 

[darthska]

All true.

We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree with what you said earlier (at least I think it was you), that the market won't be terribly high for Ariza, considering that he's arole player. Awesome addition to any team, but still a role player, nowhere near All Star caliber.

But I think the market for Odom will be higher than it's ever been for him. He's a versatile 'almost All Star', like he's always been, butnow he's a champion, and was an integral part of the championship.

 

[CP1708]

One more fact, both Ariza and Odom have stated publicly that they would like to return, and would take slightly less money to do so.

That's from role guys, who aren't as rich as their leader is.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by dyyhard

hilight of the issue - one western conference coach(not named) said Kobe maybe the greatest to have played the game...

What is this? Is it on newstands, or do I have to order it, or wassup?

 

[Los Angeles]

Follow me on twitter.com/ronnie_ROCKs

btw, I have no idea what I'm doing

 

[holdenmichael]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

It seems to me that I have said something that can be interpreted as 'Kobe bashing', and a Kobe fan has interpreted what I've said as exactly that.

LOL, playing the "my opinion is 'team first' and you disagree so it seems you're 'Kobe first'" card? No, we simplyhave a differing opinion of this and other situations relating to Kobe and the Lakers.

I'm saying that I don't think Kobe will enable the signing of both...it would be nice if he made a team decision now
Providing context removes my desire to explain the "why" behind your statements.

Do you believe that the signing of both players hinges solely on Kobe taking a cut in pay?

Who do you blame the most if the Lakers sign only one, or even none, of the players?

Do you believe that Kobe owes the Lakers something other than what he's already given them?

Do you really believe that the two of us having a different answer to these questions means that I'm a "Kobe fan first" (the only reason a personwould view any critique of Kobe as Kobe bashing)?

One more fact, both Ariza and Odom have stated publicly that they would like to return, and would take slightly less money to do so.
May I add to that fact? Thanks.

Neither Ariza or Odom have taken any less money. Another fact, Odom has to take less money because the market will not call for him to receive a raise. Another fact, Odom benefits from taking less money. His trade off is living where he stated that he has to live (by the beach), competing for a championship,and reaping the reward of living in a market where he can do business.

Ariza? We'll see what the market says for him. Kobe has until the 30th to opt out and I have to figure that we'll know more about who's goingafter Ariza and how much they're willing to offer by then.


Speaking of opt outs, should Kobe receive credit for not leaving to another team? Can't he take less money and play for Portland too? Can't he takeless money and play for whichever team LeBron or Wade chooses to play for?

I'm cool w/ Kobe taking every penny. I'm also cool with the Lakers signing and trading him for prospects and a starting 2. I care about having funwatching the Lakers and the Lakers winning in that order. I couldn't care less about his legacy or PR according to sports writers. This doesn't meanI won't share my opinion, but it does mean that my opinions aren't motivated by either and that I never feel the need to qualify my opinions by statingmy like or dislike of Kobe the person.

 

[darthska]

holdenmichael:

---

23ska909red02:

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It seems to me that I have said something that can be interpreted as 'Kobe bashing', and a Kobe fan has interpreted what I've said as exactly that.
LOL, playing the "my opinion is 'team first' and you disagree so it seems you're 'Kobe first'" card? No, we simply have a differing opinion of this and other situations relating to Kobe and the Lakers.
Ummm... what?

I'm playing the 'I didn't sayanything negative about Kobe but you're defending him and trying to hold me accountable for being too hard on Kobe when I didn't say anything negativeabout him in the first place' card.

Because that's the card that's been laid on the table; that's what happened, man. Not that big of a deal, but... I mean... that's whathappened. All I said was that I don't think Kobe will restructure or opt out and re-sign or do anything else which would help out, and that the team made apro-Kobe decision and it would be nice if he now made a pro-team decision. "Right. You're saying that because he owes the team because of the Shaqfeud." I'm saying...the team chose him, and the proof is the fact that Shaq walked and Kobe stayed... it would be nice if he made a team decision."So you're saying it's his fault if both don't get re-signed?"

Oy vey.

holdenmichael:

---

Providing context removes my desire to explain the "why" behind your statements.
How the heck can you explain the 'why; behind someone else's statements?

holdenmichael:

---

Do you believe that the signing of both players hinges solely on Kobe taking a cut in pay?
Ummm... obviously not.

holdenmichael:

---

Who do you blame the most if the Lakers sign only one, or even none, of the players?
Managenemt. It's their team to run, not Kobe's.

holdenmichael:

---

Do you believe that Kobe owes the Lakers something other than what he's already given them?
Giving something back because you're in debt and giving something back simply to be Mr. Nice Guy are two completely different things. I simplythink that he can enable the signing of all critical pieces; nothing more than that.

holdenmichael:

---

Do you really believe that the two of us having a different answer to these questions means that I'm a "Kobe fan first" (the only reason a person would view any critique of Kobe as Kobe bashing)?
Nice try. I'm not answering that the way you asked it. Do I believe that us having differing opinions means that you're the Kobe fansensitive to Kobe bashing and I'm the 'team first' guy? No. Do I believe you're a Kobe fan sensitive to Kobe bashing? At times, yes. That'sit. Does that make me the team guy? I didn't know we were in opposition, so I don't see what that has to do with anything, nor do I see the relevanceof your fandom. Bottom line, I said nothing negative about Kobe, but I said a couple things that ruffled your feathers, and now you're defending Kobe.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Originally Posted by holdenmichael

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

It seems to me that I have said something that can be interpreted as 'Kobe bashing', and a Kobe fan has interpreted what I've said as exactly that.

LOL, playing the "my opinion is 'team first' and you disagree so it seems you're 'Kobe first'" card? No, we simply have a differing opinion of this and other situations relating to Kobe and the Lakers.

I'm saying that I don't think Kobe will enable the signing of both...it would be nice if he made a team decision now

Providing context removes my desire to explain the "why" behind your statements.

Do you believe that the signing of both players hinges solely on Kobe taking a cut in pay?

Who do you blame the most if the Lakers sign only one, or even none, of the players?

Do you believe that Kobe owes the Lakers something other than what he's already given them?

Do you really believe that the two of us having a different answer to these questions means that I'm a "Kobe fan first" (the only reason a person would view any critique of Kobe as Kobe bashing)?

One more fact, both Ariza and Odom have stated publicly that they would like to return, and would take slightly less money to do so.
May I add to that fact? Thanks.

Neither Ariza or Odom have taken any less money. Another fact, Odom has to take less money because the market will not call for him to receive a raise. Another fact, Odom benefits from taking less money. His trade off is living where he stated that he has to live (by the beach), competing for a championship, and reaping the reward of living in a market where he can do business.

Ariza? We'll see what the market says for him. Kobe has until the 30th to opt out and I have to figure that we'll know more about who's going after Ariza and how much they're willing to offer by then.


Speaking of opt outs, should Kobe receive credit for not leaving to another team? Can't he take less money and play for Portland too? Can't he take less money and play for whichever team LeBron or Wade chooses to play for?

I'm cool w/ Kobe taking every penny. I'm also cool with the Lakers signing and trading him for prospects and a starting 2. I care about having fun watching the Lakers and the Lakers winning in that order. I couldn't care less about his legacy or PR according to sports writers. This doesn't mean I won't share my opinion, but it does mean that my opinions aren't motivated by either and that I never feel the need to qualify my opinions by stating my like or dislike of Kobe the person.

*golf clap*

 

[CP1708]

If Kobe take every penny he can and because of this there is not enough money left over for Ariza, Lamar OR Shannon Brown, I find it hard to beleive anybodycan defend Kobe on that one. No way.

It will be a stupid stupid move if he does that.

Now if Ariza and/or Lamar are just blown away by the dollars and leave for way too much money to pass up, then fine, that's on them, not on Kobe. But ifone or both of them ask for 7 and the Lakers don't have it, so they sign elsewhere for like 9 mil and Kobe is sittin there with 25.......then I have noidea how someone can claim to be a Laker fan, but defend Kobe in that sitruation. I hope it don't come to this, but if it does.........

 

[MVP]

I don't see how you can lay this on Kobe if one or both of the guys don't get resigned. It's managements problem to bring the team back intact, nothis. He's scheduled to make $23 mil next year and $25 in 2010/2011, if he opts out and signs a new deal for 20 mil, that'll save Buss 6 and 10 mil onthe luxury tax respectively, that's not enough to sign both Ariza and Odom anyway. So Buss is going to end up paying luxury tax anyway.

It would be nothing more than a nice gesture on his part to do that, b/c honestly you don't see it often. Tim did it cause he's just that way and SA isa small market that doesn't have the kind of money to give max deals out and keep their team intact and KG signed a new deal cause he had the biggestcontract in the league for the past 5 years or so. If Buss isn't willing to spend and extra 10 or 15 mil to keep the team intact knowing that he'llmake it all back and then some with the extended playoff runs that are to follow, then I don't know what to say for him.

Seriously though, you can't blame Kobe if he wants a max deal that'll pay him 2 to 4 mil more than he'll make on his current deal, Buss has thecash, spend it. Besides as much as Kobe is perceived to be declining, he's still the best player in the league, why not be paid like it.

 

[thachosen123]

I say we do it like this



If we resign both trev and lamar, ska has to turn in his admin card



If we fail to sign both, then holden has to turn in his admin card.......or just say sorry

I'm just playin..............or maybe not

 

[three6mafia2007]

Originally Posted by holdenmichael

And as for the Kobe contract situation, we live and die by him. Management got us into this situation not Kobe. I can't be mad if he decides not to take a paycut which I think is most likely but I would rather he did.

My sentiments exactly. Kobe taking a pay cut helps management make up for inconsistent and injured players they signed (Walton, Bynum, Sasha), not Odom and Ariza who have also been part of that group. All of these guys should be getting paid fair market value.

He won't lose a dime if they restructure the deal. He will make all that money back on the back end of the deal and hell he could still make 20 MIL A SEASON....
Where are you getting this from? This isn't a restructuring of a deal, it's signing a completely new contract this or next season.


KG had yet to win a ring when he took less money. The Spurs are a small market team, they have less money to go around. Neither KG or Duncan are on a team making as much money as the Lakers.

Management can only do some much if some dumb team gives Ariza 10 a year and some dumb team gives LO 12 to 14 mil a year.
Are you stating that you expect Kobe to take a pay cut so that the Lakers can match over priced contracts for these guys? Let them walk.

Buss has $52M invested in Kobe, Pau, and 'Drew. Two of those guys have provided a major return on his investment. Barring injuries to Kobe and Pau, I'm going to blame Bynum, not Kobe, if the Lakers let Odom walk and don't play in the Finals. Pointing the blame at Kobe for taking the money he's earned is the wrong idea.





Exactly

 

[holdenmichael]

All I said was that I don't think Kobe will restructure or opt out and re-sign or do anything else which would help out, and that the team made a pro-Kobe decision and it would be nice if he now made a pro-team decision.
Yes, it appears I fell for the trap of trying to place your prediction post in the context of your previous posts explaining how little a fan youare of Kobe and that you've wanted him off the team since he joined it.

How the heck can you explain the 'why; behind someone else's statements?
When they aren't placed in any context, that's what we're left to do. When I read, "the team made a pro-Kobe decision and itwould be nice if he now made a pro-team decision" I thought you had placed it in context.

If all you wanted to put out there is, "it would be nice if Kobe did it," I wouldn't expect to read about Shaq. Nevertheless, I'll leave itbe and focus on those people that have a why for their opinion.

Do I believe you're a Kobe fan sensitive to Kobe bashing? At times, yes. That's it. Does that make me the team guy? Bottom line, I said nothing negative about Kobe, but I said a couple things that ruffled your feathers, and now you're defending Kobe.
Lol, did I state that I have feathers?

Again, the context I'm placing your comments in are one in which fans of Kobe and fans of the Lakers are seen as mutually exclusive groups. A context inwhich being referred to as a Kobe fan, you occasionally use the term "stan" or "rider," is derogatory.

No, this isn't a defense of Kobe. This is a defense of my opinion that Kobe shouldn't take a penny less than the market says he should make. It'sa player, and union member, versus team debate.

Other debates are the same, they're a defense of our own opinions, not Kobe.

It would be easy of me to state that I'm not a fan of Kobe (the person) every time I post in a Lakers/Kobe related thread in an effort to place my opinionin a context of being without bias, but I don't play that game. Whether or not I like Kobe has no bearing on my opinion and that's why I never bringit up.

If Kobe take every penny he can and because of this there is not enough money left over for Ariza, Lamar OR Shannon Brown, I find it hard to beleive anybody can defend Kobe on that one...if one or both of them ask for 7 and the Lakers don't have it, so they sign elsewhere for like 9 mil and Kobe is sittin there with 25.......then I have no idea how someone can claim to be a Laker fan, but defend Kobe in that sitruation.
Again, you're calling for him to take a pay cut now before it's even known what Ariza and Odomare going to be offered. By the time the Lakers know what the market is going to pay for those two it'll be too late for Kobe to opt out. Giving upmillions before you even know it's "necessary" or even helpful? Now that's stupid.

Regarding the idea that "there's not enough" money, it's based on a budget that Dr. Buss has, not the fact that there really isn't enoughmoney.

Again, it seems to me that you would like Kobe to pay for management's poor signings or the signing of playersthat have suffered injuries. Those are the reasons the Lakers "don't have enough money," not Kobe'ssalary. Kobe is in fact, a large reason the Lakers have so much money.

On top assuming that it would all be Kobe's fault if the Lakers fail to sign BOTH Odom and Ariza, we're also supposed to assume that Bynum won'treturn to form and that the Lakers won't win? I'm supposed to be mad about three things that haven't even happened yet?

Why not assume that the Lakers don't place as high a premium on re-signing both Odom and Ariza because they believe their previous investments (bynum,walton, and vujacic) will pay dividends this coming season?

Finally, whether or not I'm a fan would come into question because of this?

It's good comedy, thanks.

If Buss isn't willing to spend and extra 10 or 15 mil to keep the team intact knowing that he'll make it all back and then some with the extended playoff runs that are to follow, then I don't know what to say for him.
Exactly. The Lakers have the opportunity to keep their team stacked, an opportunity few other teams have, and we're supposed to feel bad forthem that they have to pay one of the top five or six players in the game what he's worth?

If we resign both trev and lamar, ska has to turn in his admin card

If we fail to sign both, then holden has to turn in his admin card.......or just say sorry

at you trying to off an admin'. It's not thatserious.

 

[CP1708]

Holden, that is true, Kobe could opt out well before he knows what Ariza and Odom will need and could lose money unnecessarily, I agree with you there, butearlier I stated that Kobe, Ariza, Odom, Phil, and Buss can all be on the same page by talkin. Phil needs to be sure they all come back, Kobe needs to knowwhat they want to come back, Buss needs to know what Kobe can or will offer to help keep Odom and Ariza, and those two need to state what it would take to keepthem happy and signed.

If that discussion happens, and all agree, then we're set and fine. If they do not talk, and everyone is sitting there playing poker, then the Lakerslose, ie we all lose.

I wouldn't ask Kobe to opt out, not knowing if it's truly needed, but if it is needed, he better do it.