09 Real Deal College Football Discussion/No Homers - Lets geh geh GET IT!

Originally Posted by jville819

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

when was the last time an underclassmen won the thorpe?
don't know, but playing on a team going to the Championship game and being 2nd in the nation in picks doesn't hurt. Plus Texas dbs have had good luck with the award recently.
Who else you gonna give it to tho
i wont say very much about this award because we all know who is the best DB in the nation.

but Gunna is right about the whole it doesnt go to underclassmen thing(last year), and the award isnt driven that much by stats(last year)

oh well. the award is pretty meaningless actually, everybody knows who the best DB in college football is.
 
Nick Saban: Still Billy's Boy

Saban has been coaching defense - and coaching it quite well - for decades. But there is no question that the defining period of his coaching career was 1991-1994, when he was Bill Belichick's defensive coordinator with the Cleveland Browns. Just knowing that tells you a great deal about Saban's defense: he (primarily) uses the 3-4; he's very aggressive, especially on passing downs; he wants to stop the run on first and second down; he's not afraid to mix up schemes, coverages, blitzes, and looks of all kinds; and, most importantly, he is intense and attentive to detail, which is the hallmark of any great defensive coach.

Let's allow Saban to explain his defensive philosophy in his own words. From one of his LSU defensive playbooks:
"[Our] philosophy on first and second down is to stop the run and play good zone pass defense. We will occasionally play man-to-man and blitz in this situation. On third down, we will primarily play man-to-man and mix-in some zone and blitzes. We will rush four or more players versus the pass about ninety-percent of the time.

"In all situations, we will defend the inside or middle of the field first - defend inside to outside. Against the run, we will not allow the ball to be run inside. We want to force the ball outside. Against the pass, we will not allow the ball to be thrown deep down the middle or inside. We want to force the ball to be thrown short and/or outside.

"… Finally, our job is to take the ball away from the opponents' offense and score or set up good field position for our offense. We must knock the ball loose, force mistakes, and cause turnovers. Turnovers and making big plays win games. We will be alert and aggressive and take advantage of every opportunity to come up with the ball . . . . The trademark of our defense will be effort, toughness, and no mental mistakes regarding score or situation in any game."


None of this is revolutionary and much of it is coach-patois (there is another section in his playbook where every position is required to put in "super human effort" or else they are deemed to have failed), but it's a good place to start. Most good defenses begin with the premise that, to be successful, they must stop the run on first and second down to force known passing situations on 3rd down. (Which is one reason why Bill Walsh - in words far too often unheeded - advocated doing much of your dropback passing on first down.) Indeed, the book on Bob Stoops's defense is known to everyone: first and second down expect an eight-man front and on third down you will see some kind of base or nickel personnel zone-blitz. No mystery there. A final brief prefatory note is that while Saban bases out of a 3-4, he quite commonly has one of his linebackers put their hand down and line up as would a 4-3 defensive end.

So let's get a bit more specific. First I'll discuss what is maybe Saban's most common defense, Cover 1 Robber. Second, when Saban does use zones on known passing situations he likes the overload blitz and the common 3-3 zone blitz behind it, so I'll show a basic example of what this might look like. And finally, I'll discuss a couple coverage techniques that Saban likes to use.

Cover 1 "Robber"

Cover 1 is maybe the most common defense in the SEC. (Though "Cover 2" is close if you lump together all its variants.) Base Cover 1 is quite simple: the "1" refers to a deep safety who aligns down the middle, while all the offense's skill guys are covered man to man. This doesn't necessarily mean it is bump and run - it could be loose coverage - but it often is bump and run. The defense needs a great centerfielder back at Free Safety who can stop the deep ball and cover sideline to sideline.

The nice thing about this defense is it is simple and, once you've locked in five guys in man and a free safety, you can do whatever you want with the other five. And, maybe most importantly, with just one free-safety deep, the defense can get in a lot of eight-man fronts. On passing downs, the defense can find ways to creatively blitz five guys, have a deep safety, and all the while still account for all five of the offense's receivers. The defense cannot really outnumber the pass protectors, but it can still collapse the pocket. That's base Cover 1.

Cover 1 "Robber" works the same, except there are only four rushers and, along with the deep middle safety, another defender comes down to an intermediate level to read the QB's eyes and "rob" any pass routes over the middle, like curls, in routes, and crossing routes. "Robber" is the most popular term for this technique but Saban's is "Rat." (I was always partial to Homer Smith's term, "floaters," which is the most descriptive.) There's nothing magic about this coverage; every NFL team and most BCS college teams use it. Indeed, despite all the bluster about the Indianapolis Colts being a "Cover 2 team," on first and second down you see lots of Cover 1 and Cover 1 robber from them, except they use their strong safety, Bob Sanders, as the "floater." The key is for the floater to be able to read run, screen, or pass, and to use his eyes to get to the receiver and the ball. It's particularly effective nowadays with the increased use of spread formations which most offenses use to open up passing lanes over the middle. Floaters or rat players can stop these inside passes and make game-changing interceptions. Below are some diagrams, and I expect to see Saban use this coverage a lot this season. (As a final note, Cover 1 Robber is useful against spread offense teams with mobile QB's because the floater's job becomes to not only read the QB's eyes on passing downs but also to watch him for scrambles and to simply mirror the him on run plays like the option and the zone read.)




Base Zone Blitz

I won't say too much because I've written extensively on pass protection and the zone-blitz here. But Saban will go to the zone-blitz in some passing situations and also when he feels like he can use the blitz in a way to attack an expected run and still play zone behind it. For example, if a team likes to run off tackle to the TE side on a particular down and distance, he might call a blitz that attacks that area and the zone blitz lets him still play sound coverage behind it. And like most modern defenses, Saban's most common coverage behind a zone-blitz is a 3-3 or three-deep and three-intermediate defense with five rushers. Cover two behind a zone blitz is often dangerous because of the added uncovered deep seams, but most defenses feel comfortable with the 3-3. Below is a good example of an overload zone-blitz Saban uses to the open side of a one-back formation.



The thing to remember is that for years, when a team blitzed it was playing either Cover 1 or Cover 0 man (or simply left holes in its zone), and quarterbacks were coached to throw the ball where the blitzer had come from. Nowadays, there's a common perception that a zone-blitz works because a defensive linemen gets in the throwing lane - no. What the dropping defensive end in the diagram above does is allow the defense as a whole to stay in zone coverage, and further notice who is covering the area where the blitzers came from: the strong safety, who is usually an effective pass defender, certainly moreso than a defensive end. That is how zone-blitzes cause confusion.

Other Techniques - Cornerback Leverage and Pattern Reading


Finally, let's discuss some coverage techniques. The first is that Saban likes to have his cornerbacks adjust their "leverage" on a receiver based on the receiver's split from the tackle and sideline. The theory is that if the wide receiver has cut his split down he has done one of two things: (a) given himself more room to run an out breaking route, or (b) cheated in to run a crossing or deep in-breaking route. So if the receiver cheats his split in, Saban has his cornerbacks align outside the receiver to defend the out-breaking route, because if he runs the in-breaking route the corner has help from the linebackers and safeties. Similarly, if the receiver lines up very wide (bottom of the numbers, let's say), he has given himself room to run an in-breaking route like a slant. So the cornerback will align inside the receiver to take that route away and on the belief that an out-cut from that wide will be very difficult for the quarterback. To coach this Saban uses a "divider" line where they believe the receiver's tendencies change to reflect one of the above two strategies. Nevertheless, the defensive back still must defend the route the receiver actually runs and maintain proper technique, but this is an important starting point.

More significant, however, is that Saban heavily coaches up "pattern reading" within his zone drops. The two zone-dropping schools of thought are to teach "spot-drops" or "pattern-reading." One can overemphasize the distinction, but generally spot-dropping is easier to teach and was the traditional approach. For example, if your outside linebacker is responsible for the weak-flat, he will take his read steps and, upon reading pass, will drop to a spot and then react to the QB's eyes. A big advantage with spot-dropping is simply that it is easy to teach to, say, a run-stuffing inside linebacker who spends most of his time on run game pursuit and shedding blocks. But the weakness is that well coached receivers - who have enough time - can become excellent at settling in the "zone holes" between defenders. And, with good receivers and good QBs, offenses have become more and more adept and finding and exploiting these zone holes.



Pattern-reading, on the other hand, is much like a matchup-zone in basketball. Defenders are responsible for zones but they basically play man on the receivers who come into their zones. Moreover, pattern-read teams begin by immediately coaching their defenders on how to recognize popular pass combinations (and indeed, the very concept of pass-combinations themselves), and each week zero in on the 5-15 most common pass concepts they will see from that opponent. When done correctly, pattern-reading defenders know exactly how to cover receivers in their zones and seamlessly (in a quite literal sense) pass the receivers onto other defenders as they run their routes. One thing that distinguishes Saban is that he uses pattern-reading in almost all of his coverages, including the traditional Cover 3, whereas many coaches only let certain defenders pattern read or only use it with certain defenses like Cover 4. Sounds a lot like Belichick, no?
 
Originally Posted by Where Are You Harold Miner 2

Originally Posted by 5am6oody72

Originally Posted by Where Are You Harold Miner 2

Originally Posted by Chester McFloppy

Originally Posted by Where Are You Harold Miner 2

You can't justify putting Oregon ahead of Boise if both win out. Head to head Boise is a better team (2 years in a row might I add)

Sure I can, and I already have.

Once again, sorry to burst your bubble but they WILL pass Boise State IF (and that's a big IF) they win out. Teams change over the course of a season - deal with it. Boise State beat a LOWER RANKED #14 Oregon team that has beaten two (at the time) top 6 teams in the country.
Who cares what they were ranked when we beat them. We have dominated Oregon in ooooooooh, big, bad, loud AUTZEN and in Boise. Holds no water whatsoever, 2 wins in a row means BOISE >>>>>>>>>>>>> oregon
You can't bring up a game from last year to try and prove that you are a better team than Oregon this year.
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I will give you that you dominated them in the first game this year, but like everyone else is saying, you haven't looked at all impressive since then. You struggled against Tulsa and UC Davis, while Oregon handled USC and Cal.
I'm just saying we have Oregon's number the last few years. And they should have been ready for that game - they had all summer to prepare

V-Tech gonna be in for a surprise on Labor Day
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The game's in Octorber; you guys refused to move it up to Labor Day.

I don't think it will be a surprise at all if you guys beat us though. Your offensive coaching is excellent and tends to work against any level ofcompetition; and our defense is suffering right now. We don't have the players to compete at a high level in the front 7 and that's not gonna changenext year either. Not to mention we lose some guys in the secondary too. I think it will be a tough game for us.
 
Sooooo Bobby Bowden is gonna choose the new DC ...

whoever he is better just rent a condo, cus once Bobby's gone Jimbo's gonna can his +$%
 
Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

Sooooo Bobby Bowden is gonna choose the new DC ...
Naw.

I don't see any way this happens.

Eventhough Coach B said this in public, I don't see any way that he gets to choose the DC.

It's Jimbo's call.
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Originally Posted by I Make My Own Path

Originally Posted by dreClark

It's Jimbo's call.
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are you really sold on Jimbo as a head coach?
No.

But what I am sold on is his knowledge of the game and his coaching ties/tree that will allow him to land a good candidate for our next DC.

I am sold on him as a QB Coach. As a recruiter. As a talent evaluator. Not as an OC. He still throws a head scratcher at you every now and then. He still triesto get too cute sometimes. That's his biggest problem

However, what I have seen over the last couple weeks, makes me feel good about who our next OC is going to be once Jimbo give up play calling duties (JamesColey). Because I can see his influence in the the plays that we run and how we look at times.

I think he has HC qualities though. I got faith in him.

So am I sold? No.

Do I think he will succeed? I believe he will.

Am I a homer? Probably so.
Amato for DC
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I swear on everything if CTC becomes DC I'm boycotting the 2010-2011 season.
 
Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by I Make My Own Path

Originally Posted by dreClark

It's Jimbo's call.
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are you really sold on Jimbo as a head coach?
No.

But what I am sold on is his knowledge of the game and his coaching ties/tree that will allow him to land a good candidate for our next DC.

I am sold on him as a QB Coach. As a recruiter. As a talent evaluator. Not as an OC. He still throws a head scratcher at you every now and then. He still tries to get too cute sometimes. That's his biggest problem

However, what I have seen over the last couple weeks, makes me feel good about who our next OC is going to be once Jimbo give up play calling duties (James Coley). Because I can see his influence in the the plays that we run and how we look at times.

I think he has HC qualities though. I got faith in him.

So am I sold? No.

Do I think he will succeed? I believe he will.

Am I a homer? Probably so.
Jimbo has done a great job with Ponder & his improvements from last year to this year.
Ponder's quietly having one of the better years in CFB at the QB position

but still can someone explain why the secondary is so garbage. its not like you guys have garbage guys playing back there
P-Rob & Jamie Robinson + Reid... how can your secondary be that bad
 
Originally Posted by I Make My Own Path

but still can someone explain why the secondary is so garbage. its not like you guys have garbage guys playing back there
P-Rob & Jamie Robinson + Reid... how can your secondary be that bad
Jamie Robinson is some garbage and he shoulda been playing FS since he got here. I dunno #!! is wrong w/ this dude but he's always %+#!%$$ up.

P-Rob has been up and down all year and he's playing for the NFL. Playing not to get hurt and to do just well enough. That boy should be DOMINATING and heisn't. #!+* irks me. I had this discussion w/ somebody before.

Reid is good, but he is young, and he is not ready to handle #1 corner duties. He is a great nickle/inside corner. And a OK outside/Field/Boundary corner atthis time.

Add in the fact that we have no pass rush to speak of (Our two best pass rusher are LB's and we don't run a 3-4) , antiquated schemes, and _'s whoare simply GARBAGE getting lots of reps in front of the youngin's and you have the cluster +$!% that is known as the 2009-10 FSU secondary.

At this point if you are a Sr, and you're name isn't Patrick Robinson, you would not be starting for my defense.

Get them young boys out there and let them make their mistakes.
 
A UF insider says Nukeese is gonna leave UT at the end of the semester and prolly go JuCo route ...
He also says Speedsters AJ Alexander and Deonte Allen from FSU will be leaving Tallahassee...

here's what he said about FSU's staff...
One thing I really noticed a couple of weeks ago was how silent it was on the recruiting trail when FSU didn't have a game on their bye week. When Tennessee had a bye week you heard about Lame Kiffin being everywhere and helicoptering in, same with Mark Richt. FSU's bye week and no news at all about their recruiting. That is telling in my opinion.
 
Ehhhhh, I dunno about that because that's when Jimbo was all through Mississippi recruiting and gathering film on the Juco kids. If I'm not mistaken,that's the same weekend. (Or maybe that was the weekends around the Thurs. night game)

But I agree, they haven't made noise like the other Head Coaches who actually recruit are...

I can understand AJ leaving (Should've never been on Defense and he got a baby girl up in Penn. that he probably wants to be closer to) , but not Dionte.He was starting and playing good ball up until he got hurt again.

And damn. Maybe Nuke shoulda just stuck w/ UF to begin with.
 
Nuke wouldnt play anywhere rite now.
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he's believing his own hype

Dude was supposed to be this Hybrid offensive and Special teams role, one problem, U gotta actually catch the punts. He wasnt a polished WR to begin with, justa great athlete. His best bet would be transfer to Ole Miss and do some McCluster type role. cus he's neither a WR or RB right now. He's got a brightfuture tho

He's had some nice returns tho on Kick off.

but like I said before, where else does he think he woulda earned or can earn PT ?

Word also Janzen jackson been gettin his "Clown on" off the field. Might get suspended soon.
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Pops is a head coach too
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!+$$$ leave home andget way outta pocket.
 
Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

Word also Janzen jackson been gettin his "Clown on" off the field. Might get suspended soon.
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Pops is a head coach too
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!+$$$ leave home and get way outta pocket.
what are they gonna do with him next year?

CB or S
 
Nowitness or Statis ...

Have yall seen this kid Corey Nelson play?


649247.jpg


Outside linebacker
Dallas (TX) Skyline

Ht: 6-foot-0
Wt: 210 lbs
Forty: 4.5 secs
Class: 2010
[h5]http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AoVF6c...ttp://www.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2303 [/h5]
  • Rivals.com Rivals250 2010 (149)
  • Rivals.com Texas Midseason Top 100 2010 (20)
  • Rivals.com outside linebackers 2010 (11)

he's got a visit to Tennessee, this week.
**Edit** he wont be able to make it this week.
didnt know we were on this guys radar, hope he makes it out for a visit.
we usually dont do well recruiting highly rated Texas kids. theres too many in state power houses plus Oklahoma

I see that skyline team is pretty stacked
 
Corey Nelson is a pretty solid commit to A&M. I'd be very shocked if he ended up elsewhere.

He told Sherman before he committed that he still wanted to take his visits. Sherman also told him not to feel pressured to commit if he wasn't 100% surehe wanted A&M.

And I know words are cheap, but his grandfather (who is a pastor) told him that whenever he committed, he needed to be a man of his word and keep thatcommitment. He was down here this past weekend looking for a church as well.
 
Corey Nelson can play.. He's small but dude gets after it...

Everything I've heard is he's solid Aggie, though... Just taking visits to get out and see the country...
 
For those who follow the entire NCAA not just the SEC or PAC 10, what do you think of former Syracuse WR Mike Williams draft stock? He was the leading receiverin the Big East before he quit, is tied for 2nd all time at the school for receiving TDs and was a nominee for the Biletnikoff Award.
 
Quitting the team is definitely gonna drop him.

Not to mention the fact that he was off the team last year for whatever reason.

Gonna get the 'knucklehead' tag.
 
After some checking, it seems very unlikely that RB Darrell Scott will end up at UCLA. Scott said he was leaving Colorado Tuesday.
-Those around, and in the UCLA program , do not think the fit will be right from the Bruins' perspective.

-UCLA already has four tailbacks , plus Malcolm Jones coming in. The Bruins are still in the running for Jordan James & Anthony Barr.

-Scott would only have two years of eligibility remaining after sitting out a season. Plus, UCLA has Academic Progress Rates to consider.

-It all adds up to UCLA taking a pass on Scott.

one of the worst run programs in college football
 
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