Wrestling Thread October 1st-31st/ No Mercy Tonight At 8PM ET/ Dolph Zigger Last Match

Cool

Colt Cabana Podcast from 2014 provides an interesting context for Miz's promo : SquaredCircle
I think that whatever Miz tapped into for his promo came from a pretty real place. Scripted or not.
This was recorded in August 2013.(They mention Summer Slam 13 coming up) Miz is barely scraping by as a mid card guy, fan favorites are pushed out of main events in favor of part timers, and within 4 months a sickened CM Punk calls it quits and Daniel Bryan's fan push will start stirring.

That's the historical setting. Now back to the podcast. He talks about his fizz out after Wrestlemania 27 and a developing mid card role where he's inserted up and down the match card.

Miz became an [insert here] type guy and at the 21 minute mark in the Podcast mentions coming to terms with not being a main event player. He says he makes the best out of opportunities, tries hard even if his role is limited, is out there every night, and other stuff that stays consistent with his promo from last week. "I will make the intercontinental championship the most relevant title on Smackdown"

The Colt Cabana AOW Podcast is supposed to be a sort of wrestling therapy for guys that come on (Wrestling version of WTF), so this makes me think Miz's words here and in the promo came from a genuine place.

What's interesting to me is that neither his casual comments in the podcast or emotional charge in the promo seem to be driven by bitterness over any kind of mistreatment in the card. I think the promo was driven by a type of illegitimacy he's always experienced.

In the Podcast, Miz contrasts himself with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan's fanbase on the internet and in independent wrestling circles. He recognized that he's never had much support from fans and seems to be hyper aware of his turn from reality TV to WWE developmental. He mentions he would have loved to be in the independent promotions with Punk, Brian, Colt Cabana, AJ Styles and so forth.

He goes on to say that he usually has to convince people that he always wanted to be a wrestler and not just a TV Star. "I was trying to use the real world to show WWE I could sell" I think this is a common theme for his career. He's always been entertaining on the mic and promos and as a comedic relief type character, but was never really legitimized as a wrestler with fans. His promo was basically cut around the concept of 'not being tough enough', so who knows, maybe its a sore point for him. Maybe thats what drives him.
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Slighted said:
Is the current main roster + NXT roster the most talented (e.g. wrestling-wise) in all of WWE history?
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Has to be. Nothing really comes close. 2002/2003 had the most talent I can remember but it pales in comparison.
 
Slighted said:
 
Is the current main roster + NXT roster the most talented (e.g. wrestling-wise) in all of WWE history?
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So since I know what you mean, I don't know how to answer.

People are smaller and more athletic as a whole.

Wrestlers have picked up moves/styles/spot from the greats of the past. (WCW Cruiserweights, NJPW and AJPW of the 90s, All Japan Womens). So they have that luxury.

They have the knowledge and ability, but they (most) don't understand pacing and spacing. 

Too often today we see move, move, move, move, move, move. Folks don't sell as they should. Some folks don't even REACT (Looking at you New Japan).

So while the matches are more athletic, they don't make as much sense since everyone is all about getting a 5* match and getting their stuff in.

I don't know. If we are looking at talent as a by product of athleticism, knowledge, and being physically able to do cool moves; I guess this is the most talented era? Or is it? I don't know man
 
I can only speculate that Brock Lesnar's lack of direct involvement in the title picture stems from the PED controversy.

The E allowing him to compete while making the appearance of discipline for his actions can only be described as a LeBron James-type situation in which traditional team hiearchy--coaches, GMs, management--is actually more dispensable than the drawing abilities of the franchise player. Lesnar has much of the effect on WWE competition as LeBron has to the city of Cleveland...refusing to make some allowances for this fact is just bad business.

While the federation simply has too much to lose by denying fans the right to see Brock in the squared circle outright, there's little question that placing him in contention for the title in the midst of questions about performance enhancement would immediately throw the legitimacy of the new World Championship into question. 

With fans perfectly content to watch Lesnar brutalize his opposition for the pure sport of it, WWE has little to gain by embracing such a controversial champion. After all, his interviews on morning shows and sports networks after his likely title win would quickly turn to the fresh doping allegations, yes?

I expect Brock Lesnar to contend for the newest heavyweight championship soon after the NFL season begins and media outlets have something else to talk about.
 
For example; compare the 2 women's matches from last week

Sasha vs CHarlotte

Bayley vs Asuka

Look how HARD Sasha/Charlotte tried man. They seemed like they wanted Meltzer to call them after the match commending them on their match. Just wreckless with their spots man. Like, they just tried to do too much.

Compared to Bayley/Asuka, solid, basic story trying to be told. 

I just hate seeing matches were I KNOW the wrestlers are just trying too hard to steal the show and they use 5000 moves to do that
 
I had a discussion last Sunday with friends during the Apollo Crews v Miz match.. I said that Apollo couldn't go wrestling wise in the WWE.. His best match to me was Finn Bálor and his second best match to me was last Sunday's match.. Apollo could do fancy moves but are extremely dangerous and doesn't necessary make the match memorable at all.. That Jericho botch still on my mind..




Their opinions was that Apollo can go but need greats like HBK to help them get that classic..

My response: HBK isn't walking through that door..

I personally think Apollo can go but his style doesn't mix well with the WWE style..
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I agree with the Crews comment. He is just a bulky, black dude with some flashy moves. I don't see much science during his matches
 
It's just a natural product of the sport's evolution, no different than any other sport...how many wannabe Vicks have we seen on the gridiron since the early 2000s, how long did AND1 set back pickup ball, how many young players practiced their crossover and not their shot after watching AI, how many copy Griffey's swing without his timing...hell, how many kids are jacking up shots from halfway across the blacktop RIGHT NOW after inspiration from Steph Curry?

These style fads tend to burn out quickly once athletes understand not everybody can pull it off.
 
cosmiccoffee9 said:
 
It's just a natural product of the sport's evolution, no different than any other sport...how many wannabe Vicks have we seen on the gridiron since the early 2000s, how long did AND1 set back pickup ball, how many young players practiced their crossover and not their shot after watching AI, how many copy Griffey's swing without his timing...hell, how many kids are jacking up shots from halfway across the blacktop RIGHT NOW after inspiration from Steph Curry?

These style fads tend to burn out quickly once athletes understand not everybody can pull it off.
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I agree 100%
 
DCAllAmerican said:
Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Otani in New Japan on 8/4/96 - Video Dailymotion

Great Sasuke + Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus + Shinjiro Ohtani (New Japan 10.16.94 - Jr. Tag League Finals) - Video Dailymotion
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Everytime i click on those it sends me to some antivirus crap. You trying to scam me broski............. :lol
 
I think today's roster is definitely more athletic and knows more "spot" moves, but they are for sure lacking an ability to pace a match and tell a great in ring story..

I'd have to say WWE's best roster for all around wrestling has to be Attitude Era..Austin, Rock, Foley, Taker, Honner, Jericho, Benoit etc etc..They could all go in the ring and tell fantastic stories that didn't have to rely on high spots to make the match great..I know a couple of them dudes was tail end of the AE but I still count em..

Plue during the AE they had a very solid mid-card and tag division..
 
I think someone like Crash Holly was far underappreciated for his abilities...although he lacked prototypical size, he displayed a high level of technical ability and a higher tolerance for punishment. Although his ambition far exceeded his might, Crash was an excellent example of how far pure desire can push a competitor.

Ken Shamrock isn't acknowledged enough for his contributions to the sport at the highest level. His strike-driven style has been incorporated into the offense of practically every athlete to don a pair of kickpads in the squared circle, and I'm personally a huge fan of his approach to applying his experience in other combat sports.

DDP deserves a mention here for his offensive innovation and noteworthy rise as a relatively mature rookie to rapid success in the sport. He also showed incredible toughness during his late-blooming prime, fighting through debilitating rib injuries for what seemed like years. Of course, we all know that the Favre-style painkiller addiction he developed from nagging injuries during this WCW title contention drove him to make strange life choices such as stalking a fellow competitor's wife, but on the flip side this painful experience did turn his life around and eventually lead him to a career as a life coach and physical therapy guru.

It's also easy to forget the relative success of D'Lo Brown during the era. His well rounded offensive style featured a good blend of striking, power moves and high flying, and many fans forget that he, not Kurt Angle, was the first "Eurocontinental" champion. He was also part of the final four in the 1999 Royal Rumble, perfectly illustrating his overall career arc as a capable, but not quite elite competitor. I can't help but to think of someone like Tracy McGrady when discussing D'Lo Brown...he'd make the Hall of Very Good every time.

I think what I'm saying is while the current era features superior athletes, the Monday Night Wars were deep with Superstars...I guess it's sort of the same argument people make about the 90s NBA/NFL to today's.
 
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Random, but the Million Dollar Giveaway Raws were some of the worst Raws in a long time. The desperation for ratings had to be at an all time low during that period. Those Raws were 1995 bad, and it didn't help that Smackdown was good around that time
 
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