Why is the vicious cycle of rap music acceptable?

[rudemiester]

We condemn rappers who aren't really about "that life" and buy into those who are but when "that life" catches up to any of them people are surprised and upset...
Our classifications of these people switch depending on the argument from entertainers to real life thugs with non musical factors like street credibility unfortunately coming into play.

If rap in itself is based around negative energy and competition should we be surprised when bad things happen?

Will rap always have to be based around negativity and competition in order to survive?

 

[va757va]

elaborate..this could go a few diff directions

 

[sillyputty]

Its the same reason dudes hated Kanye and Drake.

We have a crabs in a barrel mentality.

They remove the "edge" to it. They took rap to the suburbs and made it ok for dudes on the internet who didn't grow up in the roughest places in society to get a chance. Even dudes who weren't even that hardcore had the doors opened to them.



My personal theory (PERSONAL THEORY...so don't take offense to this) is that black people...my people...are so used to being victimized that we ENJOY being the underdogs of society. We like to have something to complain about...it almost validates our struggle continuously...but we don't do anything to address things or make changes.

People enjoy violence and gangster culture because they CANT live that life. Its like they say: "Everybody wants to be a ______ but don't nobody wannabe a ______." Its the same reason why dudes are drawn to drug infused music. They arent about to really go out there, but its an escape to a lot of these dudes. I guarantee you that most of these "hood dudes" really aren't about that life either. Its only a few dudes even in the hood who go out there and start raising hell.

Have you ever seen the crowd at a wayne or ross concert? Its all white people and people who can afford to pay those ticket prices. These guys aren't doing shows for hood crowds.

I also think its a result of our overemphasis on an excessively masculine identity that we have in the urban community.

 

[b smooth 202]

its not as vicious as it seems because there are alternatives out there with the independent game...you just have to broaden your horizons as an individual and you'll discover better music.

...its aso timing/generational thing....I think the 90s babys are going to bring back good hip hop...

don't pigeon hold the game to what you see in the mainstream...which Ive pretty much given up on....

you also have to look at how far the music has come and reach the conclusion that more positive movements will resurface in the game..

but that goes to say that the music is still a reflection of our communities at large and #+@! needs to start changing for the better, for once....

 

[cicero avenue dopeman]

im on wit a pac and a burner so thats what i listen to. I be like ya im doin it when i listen 2 dem guys

 

[Ace Ready]

I can't take Gangsta rappers serious anymore.. Not only is it harmful to the kids who actually belive that crap but it's just flat out lame.

Rappers who speak on real life emotions >

 

[hugebird]

I've just never understood why hip-hop is seemingly the only genre of music where the listener was requiring the performer to actually have lived what they are talking about. I have asked it multiple times, even on NT, and I have never received a straight answer, why authenticity is a prerequisite in hip-hop. I honestly believe that this is the biggest deterrent of any progression in the genre.

 

[dior paint]

I wanted to make thisthread after reading that Slim Dunkin thread but I figured I'd wait for one ofya'll to do it.

 

Here's my take:

 

I love all subgenres ofHip Hop - from "Trap Music" to "Backpack Rap". I can bumpFlockavelli and then turn around and put on some Phonte. I don't shun any ofit. 

 

However, it's time tostop hiding behind the "it's only entertainment" curtain. It has a profoundeffect on society and on our (Black) people in general. I'm only speaking as a bearwitness to what I personally see among today's youth and even some adults. Forsome reason, even if it's from an entertainment aspect...we have thispreoccupation with "being about that life" and wantingto indulge ourselves in overt sexuality and things of a criminalnature. Perhaps now more than ever, pop culture has an EXTREME influence on oursociety thanks to the internet. You have to be extremely naïve to believe thatthese images that are being promoted aren’t being gobbled up by our youth. Idon’t know whether you can place the blame on parenting as much as it is just asign of the times. It’s not just entertainment any more. Kids are vicariously livingthrough these rappers these days. Music is a POWERFUL tool. Just as much as itwas used to promote more of a radical/political tone back in the 80’s and early90’s, why is it hard to believe that there isn’t an agenda out there now for usto degrade ourselves? If you crown Pac for message he delivered because of howmany people he influenced…why is it hard to look at it from the flip side to seehow damaging some of the popular artists out now can be?

 

As much as I love music,I’d be lying if I didn’t say that these days I find myself listening to some ofmy favorite rappers like “this ++@% ain’t cool to be

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Enchanted1

I can't take Gangsta rappers serious anymore.. Not only is it harmful to the kids who actually belive that crap but it's just flat out lame.

Rappers who speak on real life emotions >

Which is why they hate Drake...dude is literally shifting the power in the game. 
I say Marvin's Room is a good song honestly. Does it sound the best? No. But lyrically, he trumps almost most every other contemporary R&B artist out right now. R&B dudes aren't putting that sort of storytelling into their lyrics these days. Its a real experience I've seen others do and i've almost been tempted to do my damn self. Its life. But Trey Songz is just talking about "beating it up" and chris brown wants you to "wet the bed"... like for real? 

I think its funny that after watching that Jeezy documentary where he says (paraphrasing): 




He used to listen to Master P and he wanted to emulate that dude. 

He said it taught him how to live and how to act. 

If he got into a situation, they learned how to react from the artists' influence in the music they listened to.




Don't get me wrong. Jeezy grew up hood...but living in the hood and being ignorant are two different things. Its unreal the amount of influence rap music has on those who lack their own guidance. 

EDIT: 




Responses in here really make me wonder why I received so much backlash in the Slim Dunkin thread. 




Was he NOT around a gang of dudes ready to pull tools out? 

Was he NOT rapping about that lifestyle? 

Was he NOT bragging about his personal life? 




He got the same treatment that he claimed to inflict on others...at what point do we acknowledge this?

 

[|A-Man|]

The question was rhetorical, the answer is horrible
Our morals are out of place and got our lives full of sorrow
And so tomorrow comin later than usual
Waitin' on someone to pity us
While we findin beauty in the hideous

 

[deuce king]

I say Marvin's Room is a good song honestly. Does it sound the best? No. But lyrically, he trumps almost most every other contemporary R&B artist out right now.

 

[wasps and asps]

^ Don't worry yo. R kelly just wrote 32 new chapters to trapped in the closet. You will b steppin in the name of love in no time

 

[b smooth 202]

Great post Dior Paint...especially regarding indulging in overt sexuality, veterans and dudes who know better like Jay still rapping like he does,.and us as the consumer using our consumer power to contradict ourselves by still listening to these records

...personally I'm tryin' to find better music to listen to... a lot of times I just end up going back and listening to older music....

you could really make the argument that music itself just isnt the same anymore...its not just hip hop struggling....the overall presence is definitely missing from this generation as far as culture goes...I think its about readjusting to the digital era...we will eventually see better material

another thing...its not as much of 'being real' or 'negative' 'positive' it just an overall lack of creativity...for example Im not a fan of OFWKGTA ...but I like the togetherness of their presentation and their overall production...

the fact that we have it so easy is another thing..it takes an element away from the music....just remember how enamored people used to be with music...because it was much less accessible..it really was eventful....you really had something to anticipate...now you get whatever song you want at will..you know when everything is out...you have libraries of music at your disposal..(imagine the legends like Marvin, Lennon, etc having the technology we have today?).resulting in overall more disposable music being made by newer artist...

we just need some good old fashion minded people to resurrect that feelin'....

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Great post Dior Paint...especially regarding indulging in overt sexuality, veterans and dudes who know better like Jay still rapping like he does,.and us as the consumer using our consumer power to contradict ourselves by still listening to these records

...personally I'm tryin' to find better music to listen to... a lot of times I just end up going back and listening to older music....

you could really make the argument that music itself just isnt the same anymore...its not just hip hop struggling....the overall presence is definitely missing from this generation as far as culture goes...I think its about readjusting to the digital era...we will eventually see better material

another thing...its not as much of 'being real' or 'negative' 'positive' it just an overall lack of creativity...for example Im not a fan of OFWKGTA ...but I like the togetherness of their presentation and their overall production...

the fact that we have it so easy is another thing..it takes an element away from the music....just remember how enamored people used to be with music...because it was much less accessible..it really was eventful....you really had something to anticipate...now you get whatever song you want at will..you know when everything is out...you have libraries of music at your disposal..(imagine the legends like Marvin, Lennon, etc having the technology we have today?).resulting in overall more disposable music being made by newer artist...

we just need some good old fashion minded people to resurrect that feelin'....

I actually agree with you here.
The thing is...video killed the radio star. Keri Hilson is more fun to look at than Jill Scott. 

Once music was accessible to youth who didn't have life experiences and were growing up THROUGH their music, it was a wrap. 

 

[doublejs07]

We condemn rappers who aren't really about "that life" and buy into those who are but when "that life" catches up to any of them people are surprised and upset...


That's what's so ironic about the Slim Dunkin' thread.

However, it's time to stop hiding behind the "it's only entertainment" curtain. It has a profound effect on society and on our (Black) people in general.


Agreed.

However, its "entertainment" to people with an ounce of common sense. Take rick ross as an example. He portrays something he isn't. EVERYONE knows this. @+%@, we've had countless arguments here on NT about his merit as a rapper. Personally, I couldn't care less about what he is/isn't. In my world, his purpose is only to get me through my workouts. Nothing more, nothing less.

On the flip, you just look no further than that idiot w. the "free boosie" tattoo on his face. Dudes willing to scar their bodies and DIE over folks they never met. It's a damn shame. Putting more effort in their ignorance than actually trying to be somewhat of a contributing member of society. I feel bad for the sheep. I don't worry about them, but I do feel bad because they don't know any better. These are the folks who can't separate fiction from reality. Hanging on to every word that their "idols" in the rap game spit. It's a shame, really. These are the people who are completely lost in this world and pretty much embody walking stereotypes. They may have some sort of potential, but it will NEVER be realized due to how their brains work.

 

[bip roberts]

This doesn't answer the question directly, but I think it plays a part. Hip hop is not sufficiently recognized as an art form, the way many other genres of music or creative endeavors are. And, that impacts the music and culture in a lot of ways.

1. Without sufficient understanding that the music is artful and creative, there's a greater demand for it to be literal, which leads to the you have to live what you rap about trap.

2. For the same reason, the topics about which it is "acceptable" to rap become narrowed....Hip hop wasn't always this way - I'm an older guy (compared to most on NT) and an East Coast, boom bap, elitist, but will say this about my very kind. If most of the Native Tongues crew came about today, MY OWN PEERS - people who are among the biggest ATCQ and De La fans would likely be calling them out for being Emo-rap, or tight-jean rap, or something. So, we're all guilty of it.

3. The discourse around the music rarely elevates beyond "that's fire," or, "he's wack." And, I'm not talking about snide remarks on a message board. People can always be sarcastic, trade jabs, and clown on acts they don't like, that's fine. But it also takes people to go out, become educated, successful, have some kind of voice or megaphone, and then speak about the culture that formed them with reverence, eloquence, and depth to build a social understanding of that art as meaningful. I know the odds are stacked against many of the consumers of hip hop to achieve that sort of influence, but nonetheless, the absence of this hinders the ability of the music to evolve overall.

Finally, I'll say this - artists who do a very good job at just being themselves from the very beginning suffer less from the struggle to evolve and maintain their "street cred." And, frankly, rappers who understand political and social issues and integrate that into their rhymes fare extra well in this regard because being successful professionally doesn't eliminate widespread social injustice, so success doesn't bring forth the same dilemmas when your "cred" is tied to fighting for what's right as opposed to selling crack.  

 

[Hahahaha]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Enchanted1

I can't take Gangsta rappers serious anymore.. Not only is it harmful to the kids who actually belive that crap but it's just flat out lame.

Rappers who speak on real life emotions >

I say Marvin's Room is a good song honestly. Does it sound the best? No. But lyrically, he trumps almost most every other contemporary R&B artist out right now. R&B dudes aren't putting that sort of storytelling into their lyrics these days. Its a real experience I've seen others do and i've almost been tempted to do my damn self. Its life. But Trey Songz is just talking about "beating it up" and chris brown wants you to "wet the bed"... like for real? 

Couldn't disagree more, Marvin's Room is PURE PRODUCTION. That's why that song is so nice, 40 laced him with something he couldn't handle. When you hear other singers on it, it's a miracle on wax. Drake whining and throwing dirt on some other guy is weak. I hate men like that and Drake is the cat that would run up to a girl he likes in high school and be like, Andre doesn't like you, why you still talking to him, he's not interested, he's talking to Ashley and blah blah. 
Now to say he's the best in R&B HHHEEEELLL NOOOOOO. The difference is he's the only thing you hear. Label has invested so much into him and he's blown off the Wayne wave, it's all over the media. Trey Songz and Chris Brown have left the R&B sound and headed over to pop. Drake is pop to me, if it wasn't for 40 he'd be straight up pop. There's so many other R&B cats that have albums out this year that I'd take over Drake without a doubt, you just don't hear them all over VH1 because pop has taken over. You turn on VH1 and you see Beyonce (pop), Chris Brown (pop) and plenty of other radio joints. Not to discredit Drake cause his album is cool, I like a few songs off it and he has a good sound but what stands out to me is the production on that album. 

 

[Peep Game]

Some pretty good posts in here.

As far as my take on it, I base my music on what is within that cd I purchase or files I DL. I don't get into personal stuff too much, especially
if it's negative. That's why I don't have a problem going from Common to Tear Da Club Up Thugs to E-40 to Slaughterhouse...I just enjoy
hip hop MUSIC, and always have.

It really depends on the type of person you are when you listen to it, especially if you are very young. The first hip hop album I had was
Biggie's 'Ready To Die'. I was seven, and through me being raised right anyway and being able to distinguish what's on a cd and real life,
there was no reason for me to think I had to go out and do some of the things on that record nor be in that mindset. A lot of people who
started listening to hip hop very young probably had these cancerous mindsets instilled in them before they even put those headphones
on, so they were probably gonna take things extremely literal anyway.

Ditto to B Smooth's last sentence about hip hop's exposure. People are way to quick to say hip hop is "reaching new heights" or "becoming
more diverse", when it actually is being more diluted overtime. The exclusiveness is what made hip hop great. Being able to identify where
some rapper is from was actually a good thing, region's having their own unique sound. Now that's on the verge with being a distant memory,
since hip hop is becoming so overexposed and "easy to do". Just a couple days from 2012, all you need to do to be considered a rapper now
is downloading a program and having a youtube account.

 

[hankmoody]

Hip-Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes-Documentary

Must-watch doc. I made a thread about it over a year ago. Zero replies, of course.Synopsis:
Filmmaker Byron Hurt, a life-long hip-hop fan, was watching rap music videos on BET when he realized that each video was nearly identical. Guys in fancy cars threw money at the camera while scantily clad women danced in the background. As he discovered how stereotypical rap videos had become, Hurt, a former college quarterback turned activist, decided to make a film about the gender politics of hip-hop, the music and the culture that he grew up with. “The more I grew and the more I learned about sexism and violence and homophobia, the more those lyrics became unacceptable to me,

 

[rudemiester]

sillyputty wrote:



Responses in here really make me wonder why I received so much backlash in the Slim Dunkin thread. 




He got the same treatment that he claimed to inflict on others...at what point do we acknowledge this?

Notice how this thread barely went a page and its basically the same people talking to each other about things we all are aware of. I made this based off of the backlash you got for coming with what I thought was the truth. The same people this thread was meant to truly question won't come in here and face any logical reasoning and discussion. 
The people who need to acknowledge the cycle won't do it because they're content with being ignorant and entertained.

 

[chokeonsmoke]

Money

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by Rudemiester

sillyputty wrote:



Responses in here really make me wonder why I received so much backlash in the Slim Dunkin thread. 




He got the same treatment that he claimed to inflict on others...at what point do we acknowledge this?

Notice how this thread barely went a page and its basically the same people talking to each other about things we all are aware of. I made this based off of the backlash you got for coming with what I thought was the truth. The same people this thread was meant to truly question won't come in here and face any logical reasoning and discussion. 
The people who need to acknowledge the cycle won't do it because they're content with being ignorant and entertained.

I randomly went to a Slim Dunkin song ("I Gotta Eat") cause I never heard any of his stuff other than his 2 features on Lock Out, and damn, almost
word for word what he rapped on there was basically the type of mindset that killed him. It was pretty eerie, and sad at the same time.