Why did the Raptors..............

[goosebear10]

thing with gay,roy and the other rookies from last year is they improved.Gay shoots a better percentage from outside the 3 point line as well as defense.Royhas improved his overall game carrying the blazers to win..I guess the same can be said to the andrea fans out there..how many games do you get to see thegrizzlies or blazers or other teams when they dont play the raptors?Andrea's need to improve list after the playoffs last year was interior d,and most ofall rebounding and a post up game to compliment his 3 point game.He gets out rebounded by his 2006 classmate kyle lowry and has the post up game of dennisscott.I think he shoots a better percentage from 3 point range this year..not really a place he needed much improvement on.I mean if that was the case whydidnt the raptors just resign matt bonner..at least he play's defense and shoots just as well from the perimeter.

 

[ballinboykz]

^ because Andrea has "POTENTIAL"

Bonner is and always will be a scrub player.

 

[japanair21]

So, you guys are saying that LaMarcus wouldn't have complimented Bosh well.. And Andrea does? Andrea has a jumper that's just about 3-4 feet deeperthan Aldridge, and big men can't compliment eachother? How about Chandler and David West? Gooden/Big Z? Amare/Matrix? Elton Brand/Chris Kaman?Kenyon/Nene/Camby? Duncan/Elson/Oberto? Haslem/Shaq?

Anthony Parker is a good player, but your making him out to be wayy better than he actually is.

He has the most potential out of the players in that draft (not saying that Roy and company dont have potential, but we are seeing progress from them right now, making it seem that we already know how good they can be).


Oh, so since they are doing so well right now, they've peaked and they can't get any better? That's right, MJ peaked in his second year. Needmodern examples? Josh Howard. LBJ. Mike Miller. Elton Brand. AI. Shaq. Jason Kidd. Duncan. All these dudes have already peaked.

But many people dont know how good Andrea can be.


That's because he just isn't that good? Why in the world would a coach of the year bench Andrea after having a decent and productive year? Itcouldn't be because he's just not that good, and he doesn't compliment his star player well right? Don't blame it on the coach, seriously.

He is going to be a great NBA player in the future. Its just that hes not showing it as much as Lamarcus, Roy, etc etc etc.



Sebastian Telfair syndrome? Until the dude hits some major strides, I don't see what's wrong with saying that it was a mistake drafting him. You'resaying that he was playing alongside a star so he's not getting as many minutes? What about Rudy Gay? Is Pau Gasol garbage all of the sudden? One of thebest shooters in the NBA in Mike Miller? I just don't see how you can excuse Andrea's absence this season.

And don't compare NYK situation to what could have been with LaMarcus/Bosh, last time I checked David Lee and Eddy Curry had a decent job last year, theproblem is, EDDY CURRY IS ABSOLUTE TRASH. If Randolph and Lee were to split the minutes and Curry was out of there, it wouldn't be as problematic. Bringingup NYK's situation is hard to bring up a good point when you have a trashbag like Curry getting minutes.

 

[mw2889]

^I'd trade Ben Wallace for Curry.

 

[japanair21]

I'd trade DJ MBenga for Curry, but that's about it. Ben Wallace with his no offense is better than Eddy Curry on his best game.

 

[acidicality]

I'd trade DJ MBenga for Curry, but that's about it.

DO IT WARRIORS!

 

[theandrea3000]

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

Originally Posted by chikickz

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

A jumpshooting big man? They have a way better one already. How is that a need?

Who, Bosh? His range is 18 feet. Bargnani has range to 25 feet. He basically runs the same perimeter screen that Rasheed Wallace runs for Detroit. Bargnani makes more attempts than Sheed.

All three of them[Aldridge, Gay, Roy] are already lightyears ahead of Andrea.

Light years? Bargnani is right there. His team a lot better than the Blazers or Grizzlies, so his production may be muted more often with players like Bosh around him.
When Bargnani develops better defense he will be like Rasheed Wallace without the technicals. I don't know if Bargnani can get there defensively though.

LOL.

He'll never be like Sheed because Sheed's best attribute is his defense. You can't just teach that to a player overnight.

Dude can score but he'll never be elite because he can't defend nor rebound.


�

Where do you get this crap from??? Bargnani is the best postdefender on the Raptors and I would would put him any teams best offensive big man before I put Bosh.

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

I think Bargnani is a future 20 ppg player, I think the points will come easy for him, my main concern is his rebounding ability because 3 rpg for a 7 footer is not a good look.

That's exactly my beef with him.

Sure he can score, plenty of guys in the NBA can. What separates Gay, Roy, Aldridge, and Bargnani is that the first three have other distinguishable attributes; Bargnani really doesn't at this point. Gay does a little bit of everything, Roy is a great passer/point guard, and Aldridge is a rebounding machine. Bargnani hasn't really shown that he can do any one other thing extremely well.



�Slow down. This is the same LaMarcus Aldridge that averages 7 rpg� which is basically what Bargnani would average in the same amount of minutes while beingrelegated to the perimeter. LaMarcus plays in the post and he only averages 7??? Not a good look.�

Aside from buckets Bargnani has the ability to be a great defensive player, he has long arms and great anticipation.� Watch him defend Kevin Garnett ,Garnett is doubled on some of the plays and he does make a few tough shots but Bargnani plays his as tough as anyone.


Not to mention that Bargnani off the dribble is better than 90% of big man in the league and when they actually let him play in the post he has shown flashes.So please trust me when I say that Bargnani has much greater potential than Gay, Aldridge, or Roy.

 

[goosebear10]

quit posting single youtube clips because thats just one play.And for the aldridge vs andrea who would be better question..neither would be better Even thoughandrea has a bit more range than aldridge when it's in the high post having both bosh and andrea/aldridge in the perimeter is poor spacing.And Andrea beingthe raps best post defender?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?maybe when he's guarding diop!!!!!or some other second line scrub.He cant even guard kendrickperkins!!!!!Nesterovic is the raptors best post player..right and andrea off the dribble is a travel or foot out of bounds waiting to happen buddy.Sorry toknock you favorite player andrea3000 but your guy jus doesnt have it.oh and 7 boards per game is better than the 3 andrea averages

 

[checkoutmygrill]

it's still too early to judge. if your completely sold that andrea is a bust then that's your opinion. i happen to think differently because i watchraptor games

 

[rhcp729]

Originally Posted by TheAndrea3000

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

Originally Posted by chikickz

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

A jumpshooting big man? They have a way better one already. How is that a need?

Who, Bosh? His range is 18 feet. Bargnani has range to 25 feet. He basically runs the same perimeter screen that Rasheed Wallace runs for Detroit. Bargnani makes more attempts than Sheed.

All three of them[Aldridge, Gay, Roy] are already lightyears ahead of Andrea.

Light years? Bargnani is right there. His team a lot better than the Blazers or Grizzlies, so his production may be muted more often with players like Bosh around him.
When Bargnani develops better defense he will be like Rasheed Wallace without the technicals. I don't know if Bargnani can get there defensively though.

LOL.

He'll never be like Sheed because Sheed's best attribute is his defense. You can't just teach that to a player overnight.

Dude can score but he'll never be elite because he can't defend nor rebound.

�

Where do you get this crap from??? Bargnani is the best post defender on the Raptors and I would would put him any teams best offensive big man before I put Bosh.

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

I think Bargnani is a future 20 ppg player, I think the points will come easy for him, my main concern is his rebounding ability because 3 rpg for a 7 footer is not a good look.

That's exactly my beef with him.

Sure he can score, plenty of guys in the NBA can. What separates Gay, Roy, Aldridge, and Bargnani is that the first three have other distinguishable attributes; Bargnani really doesn't at this point. Gay does a little bit of everything, Roy is a great passer/point guard, and Aldridge is a rebounding machine. Bargnani hasn't really shown that he can do any one other thing extremely well.



�Slow down. This is the same LaMarcus Aldridge that averages 7 rpg� which is basically what Bargnani would average in the same amount of minutes while being relegated to the perimeter. LaMarcus plays in the post and he only averages 7??? Not a good look.�

Aside from buckets Bargnani has the ability to be a great defensive player, he has long arms and great anticipation.� Watch him defend Kevin Garnett , Garnett is doubled on some of the plays and he does make a few tough shots but Bargnani plays his as tough as anyone.


Not to mention that Bargnani off the dribble is better than 90% of big man in the league and when they actually let him play in the post he has shown flashes. So please trust me when I say that Bargnani has much greater potential than Gay, Aldridge, or Roy.


dude, are you bangin bargnani or something? you're giving this guy WAYYYYY too much credit. and what about the dirk argument? you obviously read what iposted, and are admitting that there's no way he's as good as dirk at 21.

you're funny little kid. thanks for the laughs.

 

[joeschmoe]

Was that supposed to be amazing defense on KG or something?

 

[ballinboykz]

So, you guys are saying that LaMarcus wouldn't have complimented Bosh well.. And Andrea does? Andrea has a jumper that's just about 3-4 feet deeper than Aldridge, and big men can't compliment eachother? How about Chandler and David West? Gooden/Big Z? Amare/Matrix? Elton Brand/Chris Kaman? Kenyon/Nene/Camby? Duncan/Elson/Oberto? Haslem/Shaq?

See, thats where the problem comes in. I think he could compliment Bosh well. When the draft came around, I was hoping for Lamarcus becuase I wanted someone tocompliment Bosh. But now that I look at it, there is that possibility that it would be like the Curry/Z-Bo situation. I could see both players fighting overwho gets the ball more.
Would the situation work out? we dont know that because they arent playing together. Would it have been a good move for the raptors to pick Lamarcus? Mostlikely. But it just seemed that Andrea was the best choice. When Andrea is on his game, he can do wonders.
Also, the main thing why we took Andrea is because of Bryan Colangelo. He is trying to shape a team of players who play international ball. Yes, I know TJ andBosh dont play International, but you cant tell me they dont fit in. TJ is fast as ever, and Bosh adapts to everything his teammates do on the court. It justseemed that Andrea was going to fit much better than Lamarcus.

Oh, so since they are doing so well right now, they've peaked and they can't get any better? That's right, MJ peaked in his second year. Need modern examples? Josh Howard. LBJ. Mike Miller. Elton Brand. AI. Shaq. Jason Kidd. Duncan. All these dudes have already peaked.

Nooooooo. See what I was trying to say is that those players are showing progress. Andrea is just alot slower at showing his progress so far this year. Samdoesnt like to play him durring his struggles and for extended minutes. It hurts Andrea's progress. At the same time, Andrea seems shot happy. You can tellwhen he is going to put up a bad shot, or when he is going to put up a good shot. Im not saying that any of those players have hit their peak. the sky is thelimit for those guys. Problem with Andrea is that he hasnt shown the capability of what his "peak" can be. He is just developing slow.

That's because he just isn't that good? Why in the world would a coach of the year bench Andrea after having a decent and productive year? It couldn't be because he's just not that good, and he doesn't compliment his star player well right? Don't blame it on the coach, seriously.

The reason why Sam got coach of the year is because we improved from 20 odd wins to 47. Thats the only reason I see why he got it. All Raptor fans know thatSmitch has trouble subbing in players durring games. Hence, Bargs doesnt get the stretches he needs to get out of his slumps. Now, Im not blaming it on Sam.What is wrong with Andrea has to be solved by Andrea, and I completely believe that. But when Andrea isnt given the chance durring a stretch to try and get outof his funk, it doesnt help. Is it Sam's fault? No. But hes not helping the situation with Andrea getting out of his funk.
Andrea has the potential to be a very good player in the leauge, and I see no doubt about that.

Sebastian Telfair syndrome? Until the dude hits some major strides, I don't see what's wrong with saying that it was a mistake drafting him. You're saying that he was playing alongside a star so he's not getting as many minutes? What about Rudy Gay? Is Pau Gasol garbage all of the sudden? One of the best shooters in the NBA in Mike Miller? I just don't see how you can excuse Andrea's absence this season

Hes not really playing along side a star. Hes playing behind Bosh. Heres how Sam works his rotations. TJ/Jose on the floor at all times, Parker/Delfino at the2, and Kapono/Moon at the three. Now Bosh is always at the 4, and Rasho at the 5. This means that Andrea would have to back up either Rasho or Bosh. Nowconsidering Bargs isnt as strong as other 5's in the leauge, Sam puts him at the four, behind Bosh. Is it a good system to have? I dont think so, but thenagain Im not an NBA coach. I would love to have Bosh/Bargs/Moon/AP/Jose all game long on the floor, but unfortunatly it doesnt happen.
Im not excusing his absence this season. He has hit a funk and hes not getting out of it. Are any raptors fans happy about it? No. But is it all of a suddenreason to trade him and give away the number one pick? No. Remember, its only his second year. Im sure BC was building for the future, as in 5-6 years fromnow. Now, I think if Andrea doesnt show any progress by the end of next year, then its time to consider trading him or things like that. But its only hissecond year. He still has work to put it, no doubt about that. But its not time to just give up the pick and move on. Stick with it for another season. By thethird year, you should be able to tell if Andrea is going to be a good player in the NBA that we should keep, or if he is not going to work in the raptorssystem and move on.

 

[chikickz]

The Raptors added Carlos Delfino and Jason Kapono in the offseason. Both of these guys are shooters that will limit the number of minutes that Bargnani wouldreceive.

The Raptors could run more sets for Bargnani if they were to trade Bosh. I doubt Colangelo is looking to do that. He's been pretty clear with their playermoves that they want to score points to win and use defensive wizards at the 2 and 3 in Parker and Moon to limit the production of opponents at the samepositions.

The Raptors went from missing the playoffs in 05-06 to the #3 seed in 06-07. Was it all Bargnani? Clearly no. But it was big part.

 

[ballinboykz]

Chickickz always comes through

Dude knows what hes talking about.

 

[checkoutmygrill]

i really don't care that much if he doesn't turn out to be dirk. bargs is just a humble dude and i'll always stay rooting for him, so eff thehaters (raptor haters are actually people who have nothing better to do than hate on euro-style basketball)

 

[theandrea3000]

Originally Posted by rhcp729

Originally Posted by TheAndrea3000

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

Originally Posted by chikickz

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

A jumpshooting big man? They have a way better one already. How is that a need?

Who, Bosh? His range is 18 feet. Bargnani has range to 25 feet. He basically runs the same perimeter screen that Rasheed Wallace runs for Detroit. Bargnani makes more attempts than Sheed.

All three of them[Aldridge, Gay, Roy] are already lightyears ahead of Andrea.

Light years? Bargnani is right there. His team a lot better than the Blazers or Grizzlies, so his production may be muted more often with players like Bosh around him.
When Bargnani develops better defense he will be like Rasheed Wallace without the technicals. I don't know if Bargnani can get there defensively though.

LOL.

He'll never be like Sheed because Sheed's best attribute is his defense. You can't just teach that to a player overnight.

Dude can score but he'll never be elite because he can't defend nor rebound.

�

Where do you get this crap from??? Bargnani is the best post defender on the Raptors and I would would put him any teams best offensive big man before I put Bosh.

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

I think Bargnani is a future 20 ppg player, I think the points will come easy for him, my main concern is his rebounding ability because 3 rpg for a 7 footer is not a good look.

That's exactly my beef with him.

Sure he can score, plenty of guys in the NBA can. What separates Gay, Roy, Aldridge, and Bargnani is that the first three have other distinguishable attributes; Bargnani really doesn't at this point. Gay does a little bit of everything, Roy is a great passer/point guard, and Aldridge is a rebounding machine. Bargnani hasn't really shown that he can do any one other thing extremely well.

�Slow down. This is the same LaMarcus Aldridge that averages 7 rpg� which is basically what Bargnani would average in the same amount of minutes while being relegated to the perimeter. LaMarcus plays in the post and he only averages 7??? Not a good look.�

Aside from buckets Bargnani has the ability to be a great defensive player, he has long arms and great anticipation.� Watch him defend Kevin Garnett , Garnett is doubled on some of the plays and he does make a few tough shots but Bargnani plays his as tough as anyone.


Not to mention that Bargnani off the dribble is better than 90% of big man in the league and when they actually let him play in the post he has shown flashes. So please trust me when I say that Bargnani has much greater potential than Gay, Aldridge, or Roy.


dude, are you bangin bargnani or something? you're giving this guy WAYYYYY too much credit. and what about the dirk argument? you obviously read what i posted, and are admitting that there's no way he's as good as dirk at 21.

you're funny little kid. thanks for the laughs.


�I'll decide that when he gets an opportunity to play injury free.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

That's right, MJ peaked in his second year.
u serious??? hopefully it was a sarcastic statement

 

[theandrea3000]

Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe

Was that supposed to be amazing defense on KG or something?

No, but good defense at least better than Bosh. Guess who Garnett was killing at the end of the game...

Originally Posted by goosebear10

quit posting single youtube clips because thats just one play.And for the aldridge vs andrea who would be better question..neither would be better Even though andrea has a bit more range than aldridge when it's in the high post having both bosh and andrea/aldridge in the perimeter is poor spacing.And Andrea being the raps best post defender?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?maybe when he's guarding diop!!!!!or some other second line scrub.He cant even guard kendrick perkins!!!!!Nesterovic is the raptors best post player..right and andrea off the dribble is a travel or foot out of bounds waiting to happen buddy.Sorry to knock you favorite player andrea3000 but your guy jus doesn't have it.oh and 7 boards per game is better than the 3 andrea averages

1. This is not English, if you expect people to listen to what you have to say please refrain from writing in pig latin.

2. Nesterovic is close to Bargnani but is more athletic, and can actually block a shot. Nesterovic wears cement boots.

3. That little crack about Aldridge, you seriously need to read the entire argument. The point was that he is NOT a "rebounding machine."

4. Bargnani is not my favorite player but Adrea 3000 makes for a good SN.

 

[wsdesigner14]

so Anthony Parker is better than Stephon Marbury?
Yes.

He's a great player. I wish the Raptors signed Sarunas Jasikevicius, but I don't see him returning to the NBA.

 

[chikickz]

Obviously I don't get to watch a lot of Raptor games. So far, in the two meetings with Chicago the Raptors have pretty much owned us, but is that sayingmuch? My Bulls are strugggggggggggggggggggggggggggaggggling.

Anyway, I don't recall Mitchell playing Bargnani at the 5. I seem to recall he did do some time at the 4. What position does he play? I thought coming intothe draft he was a 3, but I suppose depending on which team drafted him he would end up in the same predicament as Dirk. Tall, athletic, above average handleswith a strong face up game makes me think 3, but can slide to 4 when necessary.

The one good thing from those Bulls-Raptors games, at least for Chicago, was how fast Bargnani picked up fouls when Chicago told Nocioni to post him up.Bargnani looked awful in the low post. It was back to back or on 2 of 3 possessions where Noc went hard to Bargnani in the 10 foot post range and Andrea pickedup two quick ones and Mitchell had to sub. Now that may be because Nocioni has good post up game, but I doubt that is showing up in the scouting report sinceit's used so infrequently.

 

[goosebear10]

andrea is a 4/5 at the start of the season he started as the center and after a couple of games got switched to the bench because of lack of defense andrebounding.He does pretty well offensively shooting from the perimeter when he gets his minutes but when him and bosh are on the court together they get intoeach others way unless andrea just spots up.He has problems defending players faster than him(josh smith) and gets beat down against stronger players(pick anycenter).Blame mitchell all you want for the lack of development in andrea but then again explain kris humphries.I guess thats just the coach's bias againstinternational players right??It all comes down to defense and as much as you want to try to call andrea the "best post defender" on the raptorstheres a reason why he's on the bench and humphries is taking his minutes.How come raptor fans and media are always using the "american bias" onhow the raptors wont win the atlantic and how the team or players dont get any respect.Ill give the raptors a pass on the game when bosh and andrea didnt playbut the other two times,Andrea has been a non-factor.In his 12 minutes in the last game against boston he had 2 turnovers and 2 fouls.

 

[goosebear10]

where all my bargnani heads at!?!?!??!?!!........*hears crickets*

 

[checkoutmygrill]

whos goosebear10? nobody.........?

*crickets*

meh, bargs FTW

 

[goosebear10]

ahhahahahahaha

that was crickets..

actually I shouldnt be on bargnani's case so hard but the way the media in toronto and SOME...ok alot of fans are just d-riding the guy and his"potential" and blame all of his shortcomings on mitchell or some sort of bias towards US players.Before I gotta hear another person on raps tv orwhoever call this guy the next dirk or whatever other player he's gonna be like...grab a rebound first..and play some DEFENSE.Not like he's beenplaying allstars who average 20ppg.

 

[ballinboykz]

goosebear10 = the old Kobe2NJ