What does the Hall of Fame mean to you?

[nooera]

That pyramid/rotating HOF idea is

 

[cruzzz]

You could argue Eli was Top 5 2011-2012. I'm confident that he and Ben will get into the HOF. They are both on pace to be in the Top 10 of most major passing stats. I know this Era favors QBs a lot, but a doubt voters will hold that against them enough to keep them out. I understand why people don't think they should be in since they didn't dominate the league, but I just can't see them being left out.

 

[cruzzz]

How to people feel about Rodgers? has he done enough to get in? Dominated and won a ring.

 

[651akathepaul]

For the record...I don't have Eli and Ben going into the hall as it stands and not Rodgers as of today. If his production continues for 5 more years then yes. Without a doubt.

This is my HOF though. I'm not going by what I think will actually happen.

 

[dland24]

For quick comparison, say Peyton and Tom are locks from 07-13. Rodgers from 10-13 is there. Brees is there probably every year from 07-13 (excluding 10 perhaps). Ben's stats are better than Eli's and I follow him more so is say 07, 09, 10, maybe last year are the years he may be in that 5th spot (or fourth if before 2010). I'm not saying he should be a HOFer though. And comparisons of passing stats to the 90s isn't nearly as egregious as comparing stats to pre 78. That really gets me going

That is kinda a cool idea to have a set number of spots and then you have to move people out to put others in. Definitely would get the best of the best

Exactly, there were several points in which Eli or Ben were on the fringe of top 5 (not in the class of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers etc but in that 2nd tier).

...and the way Eli and Ben won in the playoffs certainly has a big impact on voting, Eli game winning drive vs an undefeated team, and beating the Pats a second time having one of the best seasons from start to finish two seasons ago. Big Ben game winning drive in the Superbowl. Those are big deals come HOF voting.

But I wouldn't consider either a HOF at this point (hard to argue for any active QB not named Peyton or Brady). A 3rd ring would def cement it but a few more consistent seasons out of both of them and you can easily make the case. You have to really evaluate things after careers end.

This thread is not about what, currently, voters use as criteria when voting players into the Hall of Fame.  They are about what YOU or I think should be the criteria.  Just because voters see a game winning Superbowl drive as a big deal, doesnt mean that it SHOULD be like that.  In my opinion Hall of Fame players need to have OUTSTANDING careers.  They do not simply need to have a few incredible moments. 

Again, you and others say that a third ring would cement it for them.  My question to you is do you feel that 3 rings should make someone a Hall of Famer, or are you simply just saying that because you think a precedent has been set?  If you think the former, let me pose a hypothetical scenario for you.  The Ravens won the Superbowl in 2000.  Lets say they resign Trent Dilfer, and the Ravens go on to win 1 or 2 more Superbowls in the next couple of years.  Is Trent Dilfer a Hall of Famer?

Do you see what I am getting at?  Basically, 651 made this thread to ask what people think should make a Hall of Famer.....not for you to regurgitate what you are assuming are the current criteria to make a Hall of Famer.

(and on a side note, you agree with dmx that Eli and Ben were "fringe top 5 QBs" for a year or so of their career.  So thats what makes a HOFer now?  Being a fringe top 5 QB for a small part of their careers?)

 

[dmxfury]

That's what has always made a HOFer looking at some of the people that get in for all sports. The tough part is if the requirements are tightened, do you pull people out?

 

[651akathepaul]

Thanks, dland. And I agree.

In MY hall of fame, I don't want quarterbacks who were FRINGE top 5 in given years. And that's even arguable. I want the absolute best of the best. Not Q's who were the benefactors of other factors along with just timely play.

 

[mez 0ne]

Again, you and others say that a third ring would cement it for them. My question to you is do you feel that 3 rings should make someone a Hall of Famer, or are you simply just saying that because you think a precedent has been set? If you think the former, let me pose a hypothetical scenario for you. The Ravens won the Superbowl in 2000. Lets say they resign Trent Dilfer, and the Ravens go on to win 1 or 2 more Superbowls in the next couple of years. Is Trent Dilfer a Hall of Famer?

I understand what you're saying, but the responsibilities Eli has severely outweighs anything Trent has ever done in his career. I'm not looking at just rings, I'm looking at how those rings were achieved and what the QB did to lead the team in doing so.

I'd put Eli and Ben in the HOF personally if they have several more good to great seasons in the league, they will have an extensive resume when they're done playing football.

 

[651akathepaul]

That's what has always made a HOFer looking at some of the people that get in for all sports. The tough part is if the requirements are tightened, do you pull people out?

This something I also have frustrations about. The HOF can become so diluted with players who seem to get in because they have comparable numbers to some of the superstars from years ago, but in there own era weren't perceived as the top of the top tier.

Of course, I don't think we're gonna see people starting to get pulled out of the HOF so I think that as each year goes by, the requirements should become a little more stringent. No waiting 4 years to be eligible because that complicates matters. Those players move further back in your mind and/or a current player sets a new standard making the achievements of that player who is due to get in, a little less noteworthy. We should know the day a player retires if he's HOF worthy.

 

[RyGuy45]

dland just FYI Biggio did not get elected to the HOF yet.

Looks like he'll be getting in next year though.

My criteria has always been "is he a HOFer or not" and you just induct him right away. Or have the 4-5 year waiting period and you get one or two chances. If a guy is a superstar all timer you should know, and if you have to question it then well he's not a HOFer.

Even with the voters themselves having issues of their own..........players should not be allowed 15 years of no votes and then get inducted. Come on.

 

[mister friendly]

The problem with should I know instantly by name recognition if he's a Hall of Famer.....it discriminates against lesser know positions especially lineman

 

[dland24]

Ah yes, my bad Ryguy.  Biggio was the highest vote getter but no one got in.  Right. 

 

[dland24]

The problem with should I know instantly by name recognition if he's a Hall of Famer.....it discriminates against lesser know positions especially lineman

I would say this is fair when speaking on football alone.  For baseball and basketball, name recognition is huge.

If it was MY Hall of Fame, there wouldnt even be debates.  If there is a strong contingent who think a certain player should NOT be a Hall of Famer, thats good enough for me to say said player should not make it...........of course moral arguments for players like Bonds, Clemens and Pete Rose being the exceptions.

 

[RyGuy45]

I agree with you guys, football is a different aspect for voting for sure.

But for baseball and basketball I believe Jim Rome said the best line about all this: "if you have to ask if he's a HOFer he's not."

The latest example of this for baseball is Tim Raines who the internet community now has latched on to as the next undervalued player who deserves to be in (side note I was a massive Raines fan). His vote totals since he first became eligible: 24%, 22%, 30%, 38%, 49%, 52%.

He's going to eventually get in at the 75%. And like Blyleven I don't agree with it. Perhaps he went up in "tough candidate years" but if you are at 22% in your second year of election well the voting public has spoken.

 

[dland24]

Tim Raines is another perfect example of a quality Major League who had a very productive career.....but really shouldnt be in the Hall of Fame conversation.

If all these less than deserving players start to make it in (like they look like they will), my boy Andruw Jones sure as hell better make the Hall of Fame too!

 

[CP1708]

Hard to work in here on a phone, needed to get to a CPU.

Ben and Eli done playin bruh? No right? Neither is Bron. Bron ain't in the hall yet, but pretty obvious where his path is headed.

Ben and Eli COULD get there if they stay on track for their career. Another 5 years, maybe that 3rd SB, etc. You saying IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF Dilfer won TWO more Super Bowls, he woulda........don't ******g matter. He was never close to getting even that 2nd. Ben, and Eli, did that part already, and they made runs at a 3rd. Thing is, they fell short, so now you adjust your expectations for where their HOF rank might be headed.

If either one went thru another season and won SB MVP or whatever, a 3rd ring, you damn right that HOF chance would increase. The difference in my if, and your if, they are still active, and have teams that can get where they need to be. Dilfer is done, and you just penciling in an extra 2 Super Bowls don't fly. Dilfer was NO WHERE near as productive as Ben and Eli have been.

 

[black entourage inc]

Wish there was an NBA HOF. I have no problem with the Basketball HOF and do believe that individuals should be honored for major contributions to basketball on a college and international/olympic level. But with the NBA being hands down the premier basketball league, it'd be nice to see the best of the best get recognition in a place of their own.


Just looking at the most recent basketball HOF class, Ralph Sampson and Jamal Wilkes had great college careers and good NBA careers. But to me none would be NBA Hall of Famers, none were GREAT NBA players.Hell I don't think Reggie Miller is a hands down Hall of Famer(just my opinion). NBA is the premier basketball league in the world, those that excel there should have their own place to be honored. My standards are pretty high I admit, but just wish there was an NBA Hall of Fame for the best of the best. An elite club where guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan etc stand alone. Unrealistic I know, but that's what the Hall of Fame is to me.

 

[mister friendly]

Hard to work in here on a phone, needed to get to a CPU.

Ben and Eli done playin bruh? No right? Neither is Bron. Bron ain't in the hall yet, but pretty obvious where his path is headed.

Ben and Eli COULD get there if they stay on track for their career. Another 5 years, maybe that 3rd SB, etc. You saying IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF Dilfer won TWO more Super Bowls, he woulda........don't ******g matter. He was never close to getting even that 2nd. Ben, and Eli, did that part already, and they made runs at a 3rd. Thing is, they fell short, so now you adjust your expectations for where their HOF rank might be headed.

If either one went thru another season and won SB MVP or whatever, a 3rd ring, you damn right that HOF chance would increase. The difference in my if, and your if, they are still active, and have teams that can get where they need to be. Dilfer is done, and you just penciling in an extra 2 Super Bowls don't fly. Dilfer was NO WHERE near as productive as Ben and Eli have been.

Lebron is already a lock for the HOF dude.....he's way different than Eli or Ben