Was MJ an average athlete??

[ryanjumpman420]

Show me numbers. I'm not an advance stat person, I go by watching the games over the past 20+ years. Even what you were saying were true, it still doesnt take away the fact that Dirk isnt on the same level as Bird as an all-around player.


Dirk is 7th in NBA scoring because he's been in the league 16 years and is a glorified scorer no doubt about that. Charles Barkley and Dominique have more points than Bird, can you compare them to Bird?

Bird is 31st on the all time scoring list. Hell even Vince Carter has more points than Bird. To have played through as many injuries as Bird did it's amazing he's even as high as he is. At their primes it's not even close. Imagine if Bird was 7 feet tall or if Dirk was only 6'8 like Bird he may have not even been in the league.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Show me numbers. I'm not an advance stat person, I go by watching the games over the past 20+ years. Even what you were saying were true, it still doesnt take away the fact that Dirk isnt on the same level as Bird as an all-around player.


Dirk is 7th in NBA scoring because he's been in the league 16 years and is a glorified scorer no doubt about that. Charles Barkley and Dominique have more points than Bird, can you compare them to Bird?

Bird is 31st on the all time scoring list. Hell even Vince Carter has more points than Bird. To have played through as many injuries as Bird did it's amazing he's even as high as he is. At their primes it's not even close. Imagine if Bird was 7 feet tall or if Dirk was only 6'8 like Bird he may have not even been in the league.

If Iverson was 6'6 he would have been the best ever. Iverson>all

 

[mister friendly]

Steve Nash was a multiple All-NBA and All-Star selection with the Mavericks

Steve Nash was a great player with the Mavericks. The Suns used him differently....its not like he magically got better at age 30 and 8 years in the NBA

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Steve Nash was a multiple All-NBA and All-Star selection with the Mavericks

Steve Nash was a great player with the Mavericks. The Suns used him differently....its not like he magically got better at age 30 and 8 years in the NBA

He was good but he wasn't what was in Phoenix and he sucked in the playoffs.

 

[mister friendly]

I dont care.

Steve Nash is still a Hall of Fame player.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I haven't seen anyone said this but I think most are missing Bill's point and are blinded by the headline.

Being a great athlete is NOT what made Mike the [player that he is. Everything else did. Being a great athlete helped, of course, but the attention to detail, competitive fire, and preparation is what made him who he was.

Of course Walton sensationalized it by saying the athlete bit, but don't get fooled by headlines. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Steve Nash was a multiple All-NBA and All-Star selection with the Mavericks

Steve Nash was a great player with the Mavericks. The Suns used him differently....its not like he magically got better at age 30 and 8 years in the NBA

Agreed. People really underestimate style, pace, and coaches influence when it comes to how well a player plays.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I dont care.

Steve Nash is still a Hall of Fame player.

So is Jason Kidd and Vince Carter.

And just like Steve Nash Dirk didn't get to play with them during their best years.

 

[dmxfury]

I need to go back and see how this got completely off topic

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I need to go back and see how this got completely off topic

I don't emm remember myself.

 

[mister friendly]

Those were some of Steve Nash's best years.

Dirk played with Steve Nash for 6 seasons and Nash was being selected to All-NBA teams and All Star teams.

Its not like Vince Carter who was low key washed by the time he went to Mavericks.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Those were some of Steve Nash's best years.

Dirk played with Steve Nash for 6 seasons and Nash was being selected to All-NBA teams and All Star teams.

Its not like Vince Carter who was low key washed by the time he went to Mavericks.

Define best.

 

[mister friendly]

Its like saying Shaq didn't get to play with best version of Kobe because Kobe went on lead in league in scoring and win MVPs

Its called deferring and system of play






Best= as in prime years, not washed and not immature

 

[ryanjumpman420]

I need to go back and see how this got completely off topic

I said that I was surprised nobody has made a magic or bird overrated thread yet.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Its like saying Shaq didn't get to play with best version of Kobe because Kobe went on lead in league in scoring and win MVPs

Its called deferring and system of play

How did the system of play change when he got to Phoenix?

Please enlighten me.

He took as many shots as a Mav so how did he defer?

 

[mister friendly]

Its like saying Shaq didn't get to play with best version of Kobe because Kobe went on lead in league in scoring and win MVPs

Its called deferring and system of play

How did the system of play change when he got to Phoenix?

Please enlighten me.

He took as many shots as a Mav so how did he defer?

I'm not talking about shooting

I'm talking about the D'Antoni system

With the Suns, Nash was free roam around the whole court , run pick and rolls and facilitate.

Nash with the Mavericks played more like a traditional pre 2000's point guard. He had to get the ball to Dirk and Finley. They played more of an isolation style

Like do you actually think Steve Nash magically got better at age 30?

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Its like saying Shaq didn't get to play with best version of Kobe because Kobe went on lead in league in scoring and win MVPs

Its called deferring and system of play

How did the system of play change when he got to Phoenix?

Please enlighten me.

He took as many shots as a Mav so how did he defer?

I'm not talking about shooting

I'm talking about the D'Antoni system

With the Suns, Nash was free roam around the whole court , run pick and rolls and facilitate.

Nash with the Mavericks played more like a traditional pre 2000's point guard. He had to get the ball to Dirk and Finley. They played more of an isolation style

Like do you actually think Steve Nash magically got better at age 30?

Yes, he said out of his own mouth he got in the best shape of his life when he went to Phoenix because he felt slighted by the Mavs.

If you think the Mavs called a lot of isolations and Steve Nash wasn't constantly facilitating while he was with the Mavs then lets just not continue this.

Steve Nash took as many shots as Sun and as he did as a Mav and Shawn Marion and Amare took as many shots if not more than Dirk and Finley.

 

[mister friendly]

If you can't see the difference the style of play of Steve Nash with the Mavericks and Steve Nash with the Suns, I don't know what to tell you.

The Suns system helped Steve Nash

This is the same D'Antoni system that had Jeremy Lin, Chris Duhon and Kendall Marshall looking like good NBA point guards for a bit.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

If you can't see the difference the style of play of Steve Nash with the Mavericks and Steve Nash with the Suns, I don't know what to tell you.

The Suns system helped Steve Nash

This is the same D'Antoni system that had Jeremy Lin, Chris Duhon and Kendall Marshall looking like good NBA point guards for a bit.

Yeah man Don Nelson had his point guards walking the ball up the court.

 

[itshlittt]

so yeah michael was def not average

 

[shoeking2101]

Bird > Dirk

But if we're being objective about it,at the very least SneakerPro is proving that isn't nearly the easy dismissive argument that some of you guys are making it out to be. Bird isn't leaps and bounds better than Dirk.

 

[mister friendly]

Leaps and bounds?

What NBA all time greats are leaps and bounds better than other all time greats?

Jordan isn't leaps and bounds better than a player like Wade but he is definitely better

The same way Bird is definitively better than Dirk

 

[bartleby929]

with all this GOAT talk, i still maintain Shaq prime is the greatest of all time and a better athlete than jordan/lebron. kobe was absolutely a sidekick. also, i'll say with all this dirk talk that i'd throw dirk in the duncan, kg, dirk, malone, chris webber conversation. cwebb > dirk. 

also kidd is top 3 PG all time. nash is probably top 10 but nash isn't kidd... 

 

[ryanjumpman420]

with all this GOAT talk, i still maintain Shaq prime is the greatest of all time and a better athlete than jordan/lebron? kobe was absolutely a sidekick. also, i'll say with all this dirk talk that i'd throw dirk in the duncan, kg, dirk, malone, chris webber conversation. cwebb > dirk. 

also kidd is top 3 PG all time. nash is probably top 10 but nash isn't kidd... 

Why u even comparing the biggest guy to ever play in the NBA to Kobe, Jordan, and Lebron. If u wanna talk about Shaq being the GOAT. U gotta throw him up against other players like him. Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Reed. U got Shaq over all these 4?

 

[ryanjumpman420]

C-Kareem
PF-Barkley
SF-Bird
SG-Jordan
PG-Magic
that's my 5.