Verizon Wireless announcing the Iphone on Tuesday January 11th

so my question is...



will Jailbroken iPhone 4's on Verizon be unlocked to Sprints network ? couldn't that be the case because Verizon uses CDMA ?







sorry about the font 
embarassed.gif
 
Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by pacmagic2002

Originally Posted by SlimK4

Originally Posted by Pinoy732

Originally Posted by SlimK4

This is good for the Big V costumers...

I have a few questions though?

Why did they say they cant comment on the yearly refresh, does that mean that an iphone is not coming out on Verizon every year??

So the iphone cannot do data and voice at the same time on Verizon? if so.....ATT>>>>>>Verizon

iphone will be on sprint by 2012 with 4g for sure.....

iphone will take over the game by the end of 2012...
you aren't seriously suggesting that one phone will beat out ALL androids are you 
indifferent.gif
YES because this is only the beginning.....this will only promote growth of the brand....more apps....maybe even a new phone like a nano or something....dont worry it is coming....

When verizon gets it, it will loose its "Exclusive" luster.

Only reason people want that phone over android now is because it was only on at&t.......Now that other carriers are going to get it, they will want whatever everybody and every carrier doesnt have.

There is nothing that normal people need to have that android doesnt have and vice versa........android is on big carriers and small carries.

Im not saying android is better or iphone is better (ive had both and i personally prefer android).......but when android takes over the blackberry as the leader in users, the iphone will never catch up no matter what they do


Android fan boy in denial. People buy the iPhone because it's an apple product not because it was exclusive to AT&T.
son lookin at it backwards...BECAUSE its on AT&T makes it exclusive this having that fraudulent prestige....i can careless that verizon if finally getting da iphone..its just one more

Nail in da coffin of RIM's blackberry
laugh.gif
(that is unless RIM joins da darkside and adopts da android OS into their hardware)
 
Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by pacmagic2002

Originally Posted by SlimK4

Originally Posted by Pinoy732

Originally Posted by SlimK4

This is good for the Big V costumers...

I have a few questions though?

Why did they say they cant comment on the yearly refresh, does that mean that an iphone is not coming out on Verizon every year??

So the iphone cannot do data and voice at the same time on Verizon? if so.....ATT>>>>>>Verizon

iphone will be on sprint by 2012 with 4g for sure.....

iphone will take over the game by the end of 2012...
you aren't seriously suggesting that one phone will beat out ALL androids are you 
indifferent.gif
YES because this is only the beginning.....this will only promote growth of the brand....more apps....maybe even a new phone like a nano or something....dont worry it is coming....

When verizon gets it, it will loose its "Exclusive" luster.

Only reason people want that phone over android now is because it was only on at&t.......Now that other carriers are going to get it, they will want whatever everybody and every carrier doesnt have.

There is nothing that normal people need to have that android doesnt have and vice versa........android is on big carriers and small carries.

Im not saying android is better or iphone is better (ive had both and i personally prefer android).......but when android takes over the blackberry as the leader in users, the iphone will never catch up no matter what they do


Android fan boy in denial. People buy the iPhone because it's an apple product not because it was exclusive to AT&T.
son lookin at it backwards...BECAUSE its on AT&T makes it exclusive this having that fraudulent prestige....i can careless that verizon if finally getting da iphone..its just one more

Nail in da coffin of RIM's blackberry
laugh.gif
(that is unless RIM joins da darkside and adopts da android OS into their hardware)
 
Originally Posted by ggarvinXX3

so my question is...

will Jailbroken iPhone 4's on Verizon be unlocked to Sprints network ? couldn't that be the case because Verizon uses CDMA ?






sorry about the font 
embarassed.gif
This is what I'm wondering.  I love the iPhone but I'll be damned if I make another carrier change (left AT&T for Sprint).
 
Originally Posted by ggarvinXX3

so my question is...

will Jailbroken iPhone 4's on Verizon be unlocked to Sprints network ? couldn't that be the case because Verizon uses CDMA ?






sorry about the font 
embarassed.gif
This is what I'm wondering.  I love the iPhone but I'll be damned if I make another carrier change (left AT&T for Sprint).
 
Originally Posted by SlimK4

Originally Posted by pacmagic2002

Originally Posted by proper english

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by pacmagic2002

Originally Posted by SlimK4

Originally Posted by Pinoy732

Originally Posted by SlimK4

This is good for the Big V costumers...

I have a few questions though?

Why did they say they cant comment on the yearly refresh, does that mean that an iphone is not coming out on Verizon every year??

So the iphone cannot do data and voice at the same time on Verizon? if so.....ATT>>>>>>Verizon

iphone will be on sprint by 2012 with 4g for sure.....

iphone will take over the game by the end of 2012...
you aren't seriously suggesting that one phone will beat out ALL androids are you 
indifferent.gif
YES because this is only the beginning.....this will only promote growth of the brand....more apps....maybe even a new phone like a nano or something....dont worry it is coming....

When verizon gets it, it will loose its "Exclusive" luster.

Only reason people want that phone over android now is because it was only on at&t.......Now that other carriers are going to get it, they will want whatever everybody and every carrier doesnt have.

There is nothing that normal people need to have that android doesnt have and vice versa........android is on big carriers and small carries.

Im not saying android is better or iphone is better (ive had both and i personally prefer android).......but when android takes over the blackberry as the leader in users, the iphone will never catch up no matter what they do


Android fan boy in denial.

right? 
laugh.gif

why why why is it so serious to them?  
indifferent.gif
 dudes are far worse than mac fanboys IMO 
laugh.gif
Its just like limited jordans/nikes, once everybody has them, people stop wanting them as much.......if anything YOU are in denial about it.
Fanboy?  All i said is thatI prefer android, i never said it was the best or is KILLING iOS in any way.   Only reason im saying apple wont have as many subscribers is because android is on all carriers and iOS is NOT and will probably never be......But i guess idiots only see what they want and not the actual point.

its not serious at all......I posted my thoughts because dude posted nonsense about "iphone will take over the game by the end of 2012", which it will not and yall got ya grannie panties in a bunch about it

EDIT**

Look at the bold AGAIN...........why are yall talking about ipods and ipads and the iOS brand..............This post and my comment was about a phone.

And you say im a fanbody when yall brought up something that this post isnt even about just to make a point........
30t6p3b.gif
30t6p3b.gif
30t6p3b.gif


    
But its the truth though, there is no nonsense in that statement.....by the end of 2012.....the iPhone will have more installed users than ANY one android phone point blank!
And that is not comparing iOS to Android.....that is stating the clear Smartphone winner......iphone will have the game in a chokehold..
army of android superphones >>> 1 iphone
 
Originally Posted by SlimK4

Originally Posted by pacmagic2002

Originally Posted by proper english

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by pacmagic2002

Originally Posted by SlimK4

Originally Posted by Pinoy732

Originally Posted by SlimK4

This is good for the Big V costumers...

I have a few questions though?

Why did they say they cant comment on the yearly refresh, does that mean that an iphone is not coming out on Verizon every year??

So the iphone cannot do data and voice at the same time on Verizon? if so.....ATT>>>>>>Verizon

iphone will be on sprint by 2012 with 4g for sure.....

iphone will take over the game by the end of 2012...
you aren't seriously suggesting that one phone will beat out ALL androids are you 
indifferent.gif
YES because this is only the beginning.....this will only promote growth of the brand....more apps....maybe even a new phone like a nano or something....dont worry it is coming....

When verizon gets it, it will loose its "Exclusive" luster.

Only reason people want that phone over android now is because it was only on at&t.......Now that other carriers are going to get it, they will want whatever everybody and every carrier doesnt have.

There is nothing that normal people need to have that android doesnt have and vice versa........android is on big carriers and small carries.

Im not saying android is better or iphone is better (ive had both and i personally prefer android).......but when android takes over the blackberry as the leader in users, the iphone will never catch up no matter what they do


Android fan boy in denial.

right? 
laugh.gif

why why why is it so serious to them?  
indifferent.gif
 dudes are far worse than mac fanboys IMO 
laugh.gif
Its just like limited jordans/nikes, once everybody has them, people stop wanting them as much.......if anything YOU are in denial about it.
Fanboy?  All i said is thatI prefer android, i never said it was the best or is KILLING iOS in any way.   Only reason im saying apple wont have as many subscribers is because android is on all carriers and iOS is NOT and will probably never be......But i guess idiots only see what they want and not the actual point.

its not serious at all......I posted my thoughts because dude posted nonsense about "iphone will take over the game by the end of 2012", which it will not and yall got ya grannie panties in a bunch about it

EDIT**

Look at the bold AGAIN...........why are yall talking about ipods and ipads and the iOS brand..............This post and my comment was about a phone.

And you say im a fanbody when yall brought up something that this post isnt even about just to make a point........
30t6p3b.gif
30t6p3b.gif
30t6p3b.gif


    
But its the truth though, there is no nonsense in that statement.....by the end of 2012.....the iPhone will have more installed users than ANY one android phone point blank!
And that is not comparing iOS to Android.....that is stating the clear Smartphone winner......iphone will have the game in a chokehold..
army of android superphones >>> 1 iphone
 
Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by LuckyLuchiano

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by LuckyLuchiano

Originally Posted by hella handsome

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

AT&T's GSM iPhone with simultaneous voice and data > Verizon's CDMA iPhone without simultaneous voice and data.

Verizon's CDMA iPhone with their extremely spread out and well covered 3G network  > AT&T's GSM iPhone with the smaller 3g network footprint.

So I guess it's all up to what you are willing to trade-off. Since I am usually on the phone while accessing some type of data I need GSM/HSDPA's ability to allow voice and data at the same time. But if I lived in a rural or extremely spotted area I'd probably have Verizon.
That's interesting.

I'm on VZW now and I've never noticed an instance where I'd use Voice and Data at the same time. I never even knew it was a debating point for ATT vs VZW until recently.

I always figured if you were talking, you were talking. *shrug*

What's the big deal about this feature exactly?
If you're doing anything related to data, and you recieve a call, your data stops until you finish the call. 
lol clearly dude hasnt ever had conference calls from work, or been on the phone with a wack skeezo. Bluetooth headset + checking twitter ftw!!


My Cell device is not connected to my work at all. I don't use Bluetooth headsets either. Those are for cornballs. Next.

sucks for you, sitting in the house physically holding a phone to your head is dumb when you can roam freely handsfree. Nobody said rock a bluetooth in the street.


Nobody said they sit in the house with a phone posted on the side of their face. What are you talking about? I think that bluetooths are dumb period. That's my opinion. I don't need the feature to use data when on a phone call
i see a car crash in your future if you don't change your stance.
 
Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by LuckyLuchiano

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by LuckyLuchiano

Originally Posted by hella handsome

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

AT&T's GSM iPhone with simultaneous voice and data > Verizon's CDMA iPhone without simultaneous voice and data.

Verizon's CDMA iPhone with their extremely spread out and well covered 3G network  > AT&T's GSM iPhone with the smaller 3g network footprint.

So I guess it's all up to what you are willing to trade-off. Since I am usually on the phone while accessing some type of data I need GSM/HSDPA's ability to allow voice and data at the same time. But if I lived in a rural or extremely spotted area I'd probably have Verizon.
That's interesting.

I'm on VZW now and I've never noticed an instance where I'd use Voice and Data at the same time. I never even knew it was a debating point for ATT vs VZW until recently.

I always figured if you were talking, you were talking. *shrug*

What's the big deal about this feature exactly?
If you're doing anything related to data, and you recieve a call, your data stops until you finish the call. 
lol clearly dude hasnt ever had conference calls from work, or been on the phone with a wack skeezo. Bluetooth headset + checking twitter ftw!!


My Cell device is not connected to my work at all. I don't use Bluetooth headsets either. Those are for cornballs. Next.

sucks for you, sitting in the house physically holding a phone to your head is dumb when you can roam freely handsfree. Nobody said rock a bluetooth in the street.


Nobody said they sit in the house with a phone posted on the side of their face. What are you talking about? I think that bluetooths are dumb period. That's my opinion. I don't need the feature to use data when on a phone call
i see a car crash in your future if you don't change your stance.
 
Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


Im pretty sure Tom Tom is still leaps and beyonds better than Google Maps

laugh.gif


There has been NO android phone that has had the success of the iPhone.

[h1]Report: Motorola Droid Hits One Million Faster Than iPhone[/h1]
NewsPosted by Keith Andrew, March 17th, 2010

The ever-hot battle between the iPhone and Android took another unexpected turn this week, with analytics firm Flurry revealing it believes Motorola's Droid handset sold its first one million units quicker than the iPhone.

The news actually arose out of a study the firm put together to look at the (relatively dire) performance of Google's Nexus One. Flurry uses its own data (apps embedded with the firm's software have been downloaded to more than 80 percent of all iPhone and Android handsets) to work out each phone's user base after 74 days. 74 days is the amount of time it took Apple to sell its first one million units.

As a result, Flurry's conclusion that Google has only managed to shift 135,000 Nexus Ones in the same amount of time is hardly good news for the Internet giant. However, what will calm its nerves is the revelation that Motorola's Droid handset actually managed to shift more than a million handsets within its first 74 days on sale.

1.05 million units, to be precise, narrowly putting the most popular Android model ahead of the iPhone by that metric. It's a claim that has been met with industry-wide surprise, although, as Flurry points out, it's not actually as unexpected as we might think.

"Motorola Droid launched over 2.5 years after the iPhone 1G. When the iPhone launched, consumers' concept of a mobile computing device as we now understand it, was very different," Flurry states on its blog.

"Since then, Apple has spent millions of dollars training and educating consumers about capabilities of such a device, which was no small feat especially after its first foray into the handset business. Until the iPhone was introduced, most consumers, especially in the U.S. had thought of their phones as, well, just phones."

Flurry concludes that the fact that Droid launched in the midst of the holidays also gave the platform a big boost, a benefit both iPhone and Nexus One missed out on.
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/report-motorola-droid-hits-one-million-faster-than-iphone

is this guy Steve Job's baby mother?
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


Im pretty sure Tom Tom is still leaps and beyonds better than Google Maps

laugh.gif


There has been NO android phone that has had the success of the iPhone.

[h1]Report: Motorola Droid Hits One Million Faster Than iPhone[/h1]
NewsPosted by Keith Andrew, March 17th, 2010

The ever-hot battle between the iPhone and Android took another unexpected turn this week, with analytics firm Flurry revealing it believes Motorola's Droid handset sold its first one million units quicker than the iPhone.

The news actually arose out of a study the firm put together to look at the (relatively dire) performance of Google's Nexus One. Flurry uses its own data (apps embedded with the firm's software have been downloaded to more than 80 percent of all iPhone and Android handsets) to work out each phone's user base after 74 days. 74 days is the amount of time it took Apple to sell its first one million units.

As a result, Flurry's conclusion that Google has only managed to shift 135,000 Nexus Ones in the same amount of time is hardly good news for the Internet giant. However, what will calm its nerves is the revelation that Motorola's Droid handset actually managed to shift more than a million handsets within its first 74 days on sale.

1.05 million units, to be precise, narrowly putting the most popular Android model ahead of the iPhone by that metric. It's a claim that has been met with industry-wide surprise, although, as Flurry points out, it's not actually as unexpected as we might think.

"Motorola Droid launched over 2.5 years after the iPhone 1G. When the iPhone launched, consumers' concept of a mobile computing device as we now understand it, was very different," Flurry states on its blog.

"Since then, Apple has spent millions of dollars training and educating consumers about capabilities of such a device, which was no small feat especially after its first foray into the handset business. Until the iPhone was introduced, most consumers, especially in the U.S. had thought of their phones as, well, just phones."

Flurry concludes that the fact that Droid launched in the midst of the holidays also gave the platform a big boost, a benefit both iPhone and Nexus One missed out on.
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/report-motorola-droid-hits-one-million-faster-than-iphone

is this guy Steve Job's baby mother?
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


Im pretty sure Tom Tom is still leaps and beyonds better than Google Maps

laugh.gif


There has been NO android phone that has had the success of the iPhone.

[h1]Report: Motorola Droid Hits One Million Faster Than iPhone[/h1]
NewsPosted by Keith Andrew, March 17th, 2010

The ever-hot battle between the iPhone and Android took another unexpected turn this week, with analytics firm Flurry revealing it believes Motorola's Droid handset sold its first one million units quicker than the iPhone.

The news actually arose out of a study the firm put together to look at the (relatively dire) performance of Google's Nexus One. Flurry uses its own data (apps embedded with the firm's software have been downloaded to more than 80 percent of all iPhone and Android handsets) to work out each phone's user base after 74 days. 74 days is the amount of time it took Apple to sell its first one million units.

As a result, Flurry's conclusion that Google has only managed to shift 135,000 Nexus Ones in the same amount of time is hardly good news for the Internet giant. However, what will calm its nerves is the revelation that Motorola's Droid handset actually managed to shift more than a million handsets within its first 74 days on sale.

1.05 million units, to be precise, narrowly putting the most popular Android model ahead of the iPhone by that metric. It's a claim that has been met with industry-wide surprise, although, as Flurry points out, it's not actually as unexpected as we might think.

"Motorola Droid launched over 2.5 years after the iPhone 1G. When the iPhone launched, consumers' concept of a mobile computing device as we now understand it, was very different," Flurry states on its blog.

"Since then, Apple has spent millions of dollars training and educating consumers about capabilities of such a device, which was no small feat especially after its first foray into the handset business. Until the iPhone was introduced, most consumers, especially in the U.S. had thought of their phones as, well, just phones."

Flurry concludes that the fact that Droid launched in the midst of the holidays also gave the platform a big boost, a benefit both iPhone and Nexus One missed out on.
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/report-motorola-droid-hits-one-million-faster-than-iphone

is this guy Steve Job's baby mother?
laugh.gif


You realize they are comparing the droid sales to the OG iPhone right? I mean you did read the article? Please respond to this because you made yourself look very dumb so I just curious why you thought this was okay to post. The article was released before the iPhone 4 was even released cmon man this a new low for Android propaganda.

Here is something worth posting about in sales
Between the launch and the 26th June, 1.7 million iPhone 4s were sold
http://www.iphonefreak.co...-freak+%28iPhoneFreak%29

SO IN 2 DAYS THE IPHONE 4 SOLD 1.7 MILLION UNITS


So tell me this how was my statement wrong when NO android device has accomplished that feat?

and the throw EVEN more salt in your wounds in that dumb !!% article you posted how about this:
Apple Inc said it had sold more than 1 million of its newest iPhone in the first three days of launch, beating analysts' expectations for the 3GS smartphone's debut.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE55I2FK20090622

EVEN THE 3GS OUTSOLD ANY DROID DEVICE IN JUST 3 DAYS!
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


Im pretty sure Tom Tom is still leaps and beyonds better than Google Maps

laugh.gif


There has been NO android phone that has had the success of the iPhone.

[h1]Report: Motorola Droid Hits One Million Faster Than iPhone[/h1]
NewsPosted by Keith Andrew, March 17th, 2010

The ever-hot battle between the iPhone and Android took another unexpected turn this week, with analytics firm Flurry revealing it believes Motorola's Droid handset sold its first one million units quicker than the iPhone.

The news actually arose out of a study the firm put together to look at the (relatively dire) performance of Google's Nexus One. Flurry uses its own data (apps embedded with the firm's software have been downloaded to more than 80 percent of all iPhone and Android handsets) to work out each phone's user base after 74 days. 74 days is the amount of time it took Apple to sell its first one million units.

As a result, Flurry's conclusion that Google has only managed to shift 135,000 Nexus Ones in the same amount of time is hardly good news for the Internet giant. However, what will calm its nerves is the revelation that Motorola's Droid handset actually managed to shift more than a million handsets within its first 74 days on sale.

1.05 million units, to be precise, narrowly putting the most popular Android model ahead of the iPhone by that metric. It's a claim that has been met with industry-wide surprise, although, as Flurry points out, it's not actually as unexpected as we might think.

"Motorola Droid launched over 2.5 years after the iPhone 1G. When the iPhone launched, consumers' concept of a mobile computing device as we now understand it, was very different," Flurry states on its blog.

"Since then, Apple has spent millions of dollars training and educating consumers about capabilities of such a device, which was no small feat especially after its first foray into the handset business. Until the iPhone was introduced, most consumers, especially in the U.S. had thought of their phones as, well, just phones."

Flurry concludes that the fact that Droid launched in the midst of the holidays also gave the platform a big boost, a benefit both iPhone and Nexus One missed out on.
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/report-motorola-droid-hits-one-million-faster-than-iphone

is this guy Steve Job's baby mother?
laugh.gif


You realize they are comparing the droid sales to the OG iPhone right? I mean you did read the article? Please respond to this because you made yourself look very dumb so I just curious why you thought this was okay to post. The article was released before the iPhone 4 was even released cmon man this a new low for Android propaganda.

Here is something worth posting about in sales
Between the launch and the 26th June, 1.7 million iPhone 4s were sold
http://www.iphonefreak.co...-freak+%28iPhoneFreak%29

SO IN 2 DAYS THE IPHONE 4 SOLD 1.7 MILLION UNITS


So tell me this how was my statement wrong when NO android device has accomplished that feat?

and the throw EVEN more salt in your wounds in that dumb !!% article you posted how about this:
Apple Inc said it had sold more than 1 million of its newest iPhone in the first three days of launch, beating analysts' expectations for the 3GS smartphone's debut.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE55I2FK20090622

EVEN THE 3GS OUTSOLD ANY DROID DEVICE IN JUST 3 DAYS!
 
you guys need to relax.  this thread was just about the phone finally being on verizon after years of rumors.
it's funny though, any other verizon phone wouldn't have a thread even 5 pages long.  there's something about apple products that makes people debate about them for months.
 
you guys need to relax.  this thread was just about the phone finally being on verizon after years of rumors.
it's funny though, any other verizon phone wouldn't have a thread even 5 pages long.  there's something about apple products that makes people debate about them for months.
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


1. Removable battery is not needed and is quite obsolete idea. Battery failure is rare if even existant in the iphone.

21e15de8345a20a84ab020880ea1c2f906bada0.gif
laugh.gif


But yo....seriously...all these damn advances in technology and we still have to charge our phones every day
30t6p3b.gif
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


1. Removable battery is not needed and is quite obsolete idea. Battery failure is rare if even existant in the iphone.

21e15de8345a20a84ab020880ea1c2f906bada0.gif
laugh.gif


But yo....seriously...all these damn advances in technology and we still have to charge our phones every day
30t6p3b.gif
 
Originally Posted by JFDOOM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


1. Removable battery is not needed and is quite obsolete idea. Battery failure is rare if even existant in the iphone.

21e15de8345a20a84ab020880ea1c2f906bada0.gif
laugh.gif


But yo....seriously...all these damn advances in technology and we still have to charge our phones every day
30t6p3b.gif

JF, that is definitely the truth. It has been said that battery technology is the final frontier in portable electronics...once they overcome the current limitations then the possibilities are almost endless.
 
Originally Posted by JFDOOM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast


1. Removable battery is not needed and is quite obsolete idea. Battery failure is rare if even existant in the iphone.

21e15de8345a20a84ab020880ea1c2f906bada0.gif
laugh.gif


But yo....seriously...all these damn advances in technology and we still have to charge our phones every day
30t6p3b.gif

JF, that is definitely the truth. It has been said that battery technology is the final frontier in portable electronics...once they overcome the current limitations then the possibilities are almost endless.
 
If we're talking strictly phones then no single smartphone, android or otherwise, is seeing the iPhone sales wise.

Now if you're talking Android OS devices versus IOS devices things would actually be somewhat interesting.
 
If we're talking strictly phones then no single smartphone, android or otherwise, is seeing the iPhone sales wise.

Now if you're talking Android OS devices versus IOS devices things would actually be somewhat interesting.
 
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