Unpopular Opinion(s) Thread

[gry60]

do y'all not work only like a few hours a day?

Teachers take work home. Their day starts before the kids come in the classroom (lessons prep) and end long after they leave in the afternoon (grading + more lesson prep).

That's a lot of unpaid hours.

Jeez all teachers are underpaid, especially elementary teachers. Beside watching 60 people's kids (30 kids), they are also tasked with advancing that boy or girl's knowledge in math, science, tech ed, art, music in addition to those specific classes for all those subjects they go to.

Poor pay + public disrespect drove competent people away from education. To respond to this, some states have already lowered hiring requirements, which will impact the quality of education most kids get.

 

[gry60]

no i have already said that the teachers in the US are paid one of the highest in the world but deliver ****ty results (even though the country spend the highest per child in the world)

- The cost of living in the US is one of the highest in the world.
- Hungry kids don't learn well. It is currently estimated that 50% of kids in the US live poor (food insecurity, homelessness, or both). The quality of instruction is only one variable that impacts educational achievement; the other is the safety and stability of the child's environment.

 

[maq25060]

My friends a teacher. They get paid year round regardless of school day or not. So that 60k is stretched

My mom was a teacher for over 30 years. When she started, the pay was only during the school year. You didn't work summer school, you got no check in the summer. Her union fought to have the pay stretched to 12 months.

My mom did decent as far as pay is concerned. But she still had bill stress...stress that took away from her focus that could have went toward additional lesson prep. And it ain't like my mom ignored lesson prep.

As for working only a few hours? Tjat poster is way off base. Maybe some teachers only do work for a few hours at school. And I guarantee they suck at their jobs. Halfway decent teachers are doing plenty of work at home. Halfway decent teachers are constantly spending their own money for lesson plans and school supplies. Halfway decent teachers are constantly taking additional courses related to their field or just to further their own education to potentially get a pay raise or a promotion.

Can't tell you how many nights I would go from my school to my mom's school because she had something going on (teacher meetings, PSA, parent teacher conference etc) that was going to keep her there until 6 p.m. or 8 p.m. They only work a few hours?

 

[moderndarwin]

Alot of teachers don't do a good job teaching if we're being honest

If we paid $200k and the highly motivated top talent were teachers it would certainly change. I mean this as no offense to teachers but we’re not certainly not employing the best of the US but moreso who’s willing to do it

 

[friscostylez]

My mom was a teacher for over 30 years. When she started, the pay was only during the school year. You didn't work summer school, you got no check in the summer. Her union fought to have the pay stretched to 12 months.

My mom did decent as far as pay is concerned. But she still had bill stress...stress that took away from her focus that could have went toward additional lesson prep. And it ain't like my mom ignored lesson prep.

As for working only a few hours? Tjat poster is way off base. Maybe some teachers only do work for a few hours at school. And I guarantee they suck at their jobs. Halfway decent teachers are doing plenty of work at home. Halfway decent teachers are constantly spending their own money for lesson plans and school supplies. Halfway decent teachers are constantly taking additional courses related to their field or just to further their own education to potentially get a pay raise or a promotion.

Can't tell you how many nights I would go from my school to my mom's school because she had something going on (teacher meetings, PSA, parent teacher conference etc) that was going to keep her there until 6 p.m. or 8 p.m. They only work a few hours?

well, i think this something we need to address and only a minority thinks about it. maybe most current teachers suck and only a few are working more than a few hours.

i mean we could discuss about finding ways to improve the pay for great teachers like your mom but it seems like most people in this thread will think it's impossible

also, is work for teachers in other countries not similar in the US?

If we paid $200k and the highly motivated top talent were teachers it would certainly change. I mean this as no offense to teachers but we’re not certainly not employing the best of the US but moreso who’s willing to do it

the vast majority of current teachers aren't underpaid
if the idea of increasing the salaries for teacher to get rid of most of the bums were proposed, i would be all in

 

[friscostylez]

Why do you keep bringing up a pension? That’s retirement, they aren’t spending it when they’re working.

It’s not some magical thing that makes crappy pay good.

is pension not apart of someone's pay?
do you think their retirement plan is relatively good?
what makes their pay crap?


i have no issues of giving teachers no pension and just finding a way to roll what supposed to be their retirement into their current pay BUT i am guessing people want teachers to keep their pension AND increase current pay

 

[DCAllAfrican]

There is no clear-cut definition of under/overpaid so it's kind of a baseless conversation to begin with.



Everyone can have different definitions of the terms.

 

[HarlemShakeStory]

The dumbest part of this teacher argument is that dude keeps saying they work 8-9 months a year. What teacher works 8 months a year? What teacher works only 9 months?

From my experience - people that are anti-teacher/anti-education system are generally unsuccessful and/or envious of others who are more successful and blaming educators is there way of absolving themselves of responsibility for their life and choices. The most obvious example are the people who say things like “WhY DoNt WE tEACH aBoUT iNTEResT rATeS aNd TaXeS, nOt uSeleSS tRiGoNomeTRy!” Like dude, you were taught those things, but you had your head down in class and didn’t do the homework.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Time off depends on where you are but in DC, it has practically been 10 months. (We are 10 months employees). I wish I was only working 8-9 months.

Also, if yall are trying to get paid well teaching just come work for DCPS. If you are going to deal with all that comes with being a teacher you midas whale get paid for it.

 

[friscostylez]

Time off depends on where you are but in DC, it has practically been 10 months. (We are 10 months employees). I wish I was only working 8-9 months.

Also, if yall are trying to get paid well teaching just come work for DCPS. If you are going to deal with all that comes with being a teacher you midas whale get paid for it.

how long is your summer break? how long is your winter break? how long is your spring break?

The dumbest part of this teacher argument is that dude keeps saying they work 8-9 months a year. What teacher works 8 months a year? What teacher works only 9 months?

From my experience - people that are anti-teacher are generally unsuccessful and/or envious of others who are more successful and blaming educators is there way of absolving themselves of responsibility for their life.

if it matters, i'm relatively successful despite all the ****** school system and teachers

 

[HarlemShakeStory]

so what's the strongest argument you have for teachers being underpaid?

bc cops & politicians get paid too much?

Simply put - teachers should get paid more because society needs teachers and there are more open teaching jobs then applicants. Current salaries are not attractive enough to draw individuals to the industry. It’s not hard to understand. Pay should be raised until there is a sufficient number of qualified applicants to fill each position. Districts all across the country have hundreds to thousands of open positions.

 

[friscostylez]

Simply put - teachers should get paid more because society needs teachers and there are more open teaching jobs then applicants. Current salaries are not attractive enough to draw individuals to the industry. It’s not hard to understand. Pay should be raised until there is a sufficient number of qualified applicants to fill each position. Districts all across the country have hundreds to thousands of open positions.

if the idea of increasing the salaries for teachers to get rid of most of the current bums were proposed, i would be all in

 

[HarlemShakeStory]

Here is a free lesson on your Sunday afternoon - look up “strawman argument” and “argument from incredulity“ and then go back and review how you have used these fallacies repeatedly in this thread.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Spring break: 1 week
Winter break: 1 week and change

It is still closer to 10 months than 8-9.

 

[friscostylez]

Here is a free lesson on your Sunday afternoon - look up “strawman argument” and “argument from incredulity“ and then go back and review how you have used these fallacies repeatedly in this thread.

how is it a free lesson if you are telling me to do it myself


imagine going to a (public) school and a teacher telling the kids that

 

[moderndarwin]

We blame teachers for the societal problems we have. It’s not hard to be an adequate teacher when the kids all have two parent homes and the resources they need to succeed inside and outside the classroom. There’s always a few troublemakers or annoying kids but for the most part the kids learn, enjoy, and have a safe place to be during their formative years.

This isn’t a movie and for the rest of the kids and teachers it’s a lose lose situation. We’re expecting too much of them without any true additional support. They need assistant, the kids need food, they need afterschool programs etc. A good teacher vs bad teacher argument is bogus when the circumstances are so varied.

I’ve been at some economically challenged areas at a charter school and the kids were succeeding tremendously in improvements. Consistently going 3 grade levels above in improvement of reading, writing etc in short periods of time. Resources + structure solve a lot of problems were just not committed at all as a society to the idea of education being important.

 

[frankmatthews]

Isn't the underlying issue the fact that educational budgets and therefore teacher salaries are dependent on the tax base of the community they teach in? There needs to equitable pay and resources across low income and high income communities.

 

[Brownstone]

What makes this topic so complicated is that

1: Teachers pay varies greatly depending on location, degrees attained, years in service etc...
2: Public school system has ALOT of flaws that are independent of teachers, this usually leads to good ideas being thrown out with the bathwater so to speak
3: Lets face it, demographically teachers skew towards female, hence, less focus on pay etc...

 

[moderndarwin]

Isn't the underlying issue the fact that educational budgets and therefore teacher salaries are dependent on the tax base of the community they teach in? There needs to equitable pay and resources across low income and high income communities.

Yeah it’s a terrible system where property tax makes up something like 30% of the revenue for the school and district. Lack of home resources + lack of school funding really handicaps kids right out the gate.

 

[friscostylez]

Isn't the underlying issue the fact that educational budgets and therefore teacher salaries are dependent on the tax base of the community they teach in? There needs to equitable pay and resources across low income and high income communities.

Edit: thought you were the other guy lol

Plenty of schools systems in low income communities like Baltimore have plenty high spend per kid but perform poorly

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Edit: thought you were the other guy lol

Plenty of schools systems in low income communities like Baltimore have plenty high spend per kid but perform poorly

Why do you think they perform poorly?

 

[frankmatthews]

Edit: thought you were the other guy lol

Plenty of schools systems in low income communities like Baltimore have plenty high spend per kid but perform poorly

I dont know the numbers behind what you're saying. High spend and poor performance compared to what? Not saying you're wrong but maybe its a little more nuanced. That said, I dont think throwing money at the issue is going to magically improve the situation. IMO its not about paying teachers more to do the same things they're doing now. Ultimately I think the goal is higher pay to attract more talent and intelligence into the teaching field which would ideally improve things across the board.

 

[mplsdunk]

If teachers are overpaid I’m curious what jobs are underpaid to him.

 

[friscostylez]

Where did I say teachers are overpaid

 

[mplsdunk]

I’m not doing the whole find the exact quote thing.

That’s the energy you’re putting out.