The Yankees have the best rotation in baseball Yay or Nay

[CP1708]

at this crap already starting.

Didn't we have similar threads when Carl Pavano got signed and that didn't work out so well. CC coming off 240+ and pitching every other day for amonth in Mil is not going to help him this season. If his arm fails, and he's outta the rotation, bump this thread then........

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by CP1708

at this crap already starting.

Didn't we have similar threads when Carl Pavano got signed and that didn't work out so well. CC coming off 240+ and pitching every other day for a month in Mil is not going to help him this season. If his arm fails, and he's outta the rotation, bump this thread then........

Coming from a Cubs fan.... try winning something 1st before talking trash about anything Yankees related.
Thanks.

As for Joba.... he needs to start.
He posted a 2.7 ERA as a starter

And I firmly believe he can post a sub-3.50 ERA for a season as a starter if he stays healthy. (only 11 SP in the AL posted sub-3.50 ERA's lastyear)

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by CP1708

at this crap already starting.

Didn't we have similar threads when Carl Pavano got signed and that didn't work out so well. CC coming off 240+ and pitching every other day for a month in Mil is not going to help him this season. If his arm fails, and he's outta the rotation, bump this thread then........

Coming from a Cubs fan.... try winning something 1st before talking trash about anything Yankees related.
Thanks.

As for Joba.... he needs to start.
He posted a 2.7 ERA as a starter

And I firmly believe he can post a sub-3.50 ERA for a season as a starter if he stays healthy. (only 11 SP in the AL posted sub-3.50 ERA's last year)

Serious? People who follow the Cubs can't talk baseball on amessage board? Really?

Did I say anything incorrect?
Did Pavano work out? Did we have threads when Pavano signed? I think we did.
Did CC pitch 240+ last season? Yup.
If he gets hurt, will the rotation look as sexy? Uh huh.

Soooooo, because I follow the Cubs, all these points I brought up don't ring true because why?

And if you feel the need to do some homework, go look thru any baseball related threads or even the college football threads where I tell people "youdon't see Cubs fans tryin to tell Yankee fans how to win chips" Those are my words in many threads. Just because I make a point that hurts yourfeelings, don't mean they aren't indeed true. No matter who i root for.

 

[biggie62]

I know as yankee fans we want to win now. But it's better to have Joba and Mo and make every game a 7 inning game if we can. Mo is done in 2 years. We needto develop someone. The only people who really penciled him as a starter is dumb Hank. Dude talks out of his %!$ anyway, he's worst than George IMO. A 100MPH pitcher is better off in the pen. Like I mentioned, pitchers like that, their velocity dips significantly towards the 4 5 and 6 innings. I saw it in himlast year when he pitched. He was hitting about 95-93 on his fastball. And his 92 MPH splitter was down in the 88s. At that point he is mortal. Dude can be atwo pitch pitcher and maybe even develop a nasty cutter from working with Mo in the pen. Phil Hughes I still think is a starter for the Yankees eventually, anda very good one at that. But we need a good closer for the future. And closers are suaully developed. I don't believe in signing them. Look at most closersthat are signed, they blow up, blow out their arm, or just become purely ineffective. Wetteland and Lidge were few examples that panned out. But it's hard.Long term, we are better off with Joba in the pen. This way we cna maximize his stuff and keep him effetive for years to come. And maybe build another HoFcloser in the process.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by Bastitch

Originally Posted by Proshares

Originally Posted by Bastitch

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

Originally Posted by Bastitch

Originally Posted by onewearz

Originally Posted by skillz

Why would people rather Joba pitch 70 innings than over 200 innings. Wouldn't it be more valuable for him to be more innings. And the Rays don't have a better rotation. Possibly the Red Sox but i still think the Yankees rotation is better.

think of it this way

joba's more valuable impacting 70-80 games rather than 35. plus he essentially makes the games 7 innings. we have the starters to get us through 6 innings, with joba in the middle of that pen we are solid all around, almost no weaknesses ..............

The thought of having this guy as middle relief is absolutely ridiculous. If he's slated to be part of the rotation in the future, whether that's this year, next year, or some other time in the future, you don't put in as middle relief.

That simply is a horrible way to protect a young arm. If he can't start on in the Big League rotation, you leave him in AAA where he can pitch every 5th day.

I can't see how Joba pitching out of the pen as a MIDDLE RELIEVER is even remotely a good idea.

Joba and Mariano in the 8th and 9th, thats as formidable of a set up man and closer as you're gonna find

I don't understand. If Joba is penciled to be the closer for the Yankees a year or two years from now, sure. Having him as a setup man is fine if that's the intention.

But if he's penciled in to be a starter in a couple years, you're really taking your chances putting a really young arm out there 70-80 games a year.

I'd think it's the same chances you're pulling putting him out there for 30-35 starts for 180-200 IP especially with the way his pitch count fluctuates. I don't know that's just my opinion on it I'd rather see him in the 8th inning than every fifth day because I think that's makes us a better team in the end. Again, just my opinion I could be completely wrong.

But it's not the pitch count that matters. I just think there's a fundamental mis-understanding of how the body is taxed as a reliever vs. a starter.

As a starter, you are pitcing every 5th day in the rotation as well as a a bullpen session between starts. It's a very consistent and predicatable environment. As a reliever, your schedule is no where near the same. You can pitch on consecutive nights or not pitch for an entire week. It's more difficult to get in bullpen sessions to work on mechanics and/or new pitches, and your chances of seeing the field are really left up to the game situation. Relievers are contantly warmed up, sat down, warmed up, brought into the game, where they can pitch anywhere from 10 to 30 pitches in game. But all those pitches, plus the quick warm up before getting into the game, plus the frequency at which you're pitching, the 80-100 innings they may see really not indicative of the actually wear on their bodies.

It's really night and day.

And if you think it's just some trivial difference for a young arm, you're more than naive. It's not that simple.

No I get what you're saying.

 

[curtiscarter23]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Yanks improve rotation, keep young talent

Sunday, December 14, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

Posted by Buster Olney
The winter obsession last year was Johan Santana -- and the Yankees or the Red Sox could have had him. They could have traded for the accomplished left-hander who was about to turn 29. But what folks in both front offices decided was that the double-barreled cost was prohibitive. On the front end, both teams would have been required to surrender their top pitching prospects -- for the Red Sox, that was Jon Lester, and for the Yankees, that was Phil Hughes -- and then they would have to pay Santana like he was a free agent. It was such an extraordinary price that even some folks in the Mets' organization wondered, after getting Santana, whether it was the right thing to do. The argument that several executives made with the Red Sox and Yankees was that if you were patient -- patient -- then you might have a shot at a pitcher much like Santana in CC Sabathia, and the cost would only have one layer. Sure, you'd have to give him a huge contract, but you wouldn't have to give up top prospects along the way. [table][tr][td]

Olney's news and notes​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]• Indians' bullpen looking strong
• Fraud case could affect Mets
• Ibanez has Phils leaning to left
• Giambi a good fit for Tampa Bay
• Cards must act now on Fuentes

Around the majors with Buster Olney

[/td] [/tr][/table]So the Yankees, in the end, were patient and got Sabathia, and the pundits who are saying that the team has blown up its plan for player development are simply not paying attention. In fact, the signings of Sabathia and A.J. Burnett are absolutely in keeping with the refocus on the farm system. Because the Yankees waited to pursue Sabathia, rather than deal for Santana, they still have Hughes and Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson and all the players mentioned in the Santana talks, and as the pitching talent pool has increased at the major league level, there is now more time for those youngsters to develop. It actually has been more than a decade since the Yankees have had as much minor league talent stacked up as they do now. Yes, they will sacrifice draft picks in landing Sabathia and Burnett. But keep in mind that the Yankees will have picks in the first and second round of the draft in 2009 because of players unsigned in 2008; it's not as if they are being shut down. The Yankees spun themselves into a hole in the past decade partly by acquiring and relying on aging pitchers (Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson) at premium prices. Now, when the free-agent machinations are over and the new Yankee Stadium opens, this is what the Yankees' rotation will look like:

1. Sabathia, 28 years old
2. Burnett, 32
3. Chien-Ming Wang, 29
4. Andy Pettitte, 36; or Ben Sheets, 30; or Derek Lowe, 35
5. Joba Chamberlain, 23

Compare that rotation with the Yankees' rotation in the year of their epic playoff collapse against the Red Sox:

1. Mike Mussina, 35
2. Javier Vazquez, 27
3. Jon Lieber, 34
4. Brown, 39
5. Jose Contreras, 32 62
   

The Yankees' rotation will be much younger next season, and it has a chance to be the strongest it has been since 1998, when Pettitte, David Cone, David Wells and Orlando Hernandez filled out the top four spots, in front of Hideki Irabu. Marlins president David Samson ripped the Yankees this week for what he portrayed as wild spending, but apparently he doesn't realize that the team's payroll is going to go down by around 10 percent. The Yankees had about $85 million in expiring contracts, and for next season, so far they've spent $23 million on Sabathia and $15 million on Burnett, and they'll spend on another veteran pitcher and probably acquire Mike Cameron; it's possible the Yankees' payroll for next season will be about $180 million to $190 million. So to review: The Yankees will be younger, cheaper and deeper, and maybe better. Who knows if all of that will be good enough to win the AL East? Burnett is an enormous risk, nobody knows if Chamberlain can stay healthy, and the Yankees don't know whether Jorge Posada can be an everyday catcher, and they don't know if Alex Rodriguez will be the monster of 2007 or the guy who seems to disappear in big spots. The Red Sox are years ahead of the Yankees in their player development and have their pipeline of talent already flowing into the big leagues, and by the end of this week, they may land the best position player, Mark Teixeira (some executives strongly believe the bidding will, in fact, end up around $200 million). The Rays have a chance to be as good or perhaps even better, because it appears they will wind up with a solid veteran hitter, and David Price will step into the rotation in 2009. In the fall of 2005, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman mapped out a course for the organization to begin building a powerhouse that combines player development and the power of the dollar, a model that looks an awful lot like what we've been seeing from the Red Sox over the past three seasons. The Yankees continue to move closer to achieving that goal. Nick Cafardo wonders if the Yankees are poised for a fall like the one the Tigers had last year. Mike Lupica has a much different opinion than my own on the Yankees' pursuit of Sabathia and Burnett. Heard this: Sabathia will arrive in New York on Monday.

 

[JD617]

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