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Like I said earlier in this thread.... give me something around 16-9, 3.85 ERA & I'm good.
The Yankees have the best rotation in baseball Yay or Nay
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by skillz,
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bastitch
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Yeah, I'm not sure AJ Burnett sucks, but to hold on to him for 5 years with that price tag may make this a bad move. But like it's beensaid, only time will tell.Originally Posted by TBONE95860
4 runs a game? No.
In his 3 years in Toronto..... he averaged....
6.5 IP per start
2.85 runs given up per start
6 IP-----3 ER = "quality start" in baseball
I'm assuming you mean in one season.... since he pitched 523 IP in 3 years in Tor
And these stats aren't exactly the best means of figuring out a pitchers' effectiveness. "Quality Starts" is one of the worst pitchingstatistics, especially considering that it correlates with run support, something outside of a pitcher's control.
He had a good but not great 1.34 WHIP in 08, far worse than guys like Ryan Demptser (1.21) and John Lackey(1.23), guys that make about half of what AJ willmake per year.
He's a good signing because the Yankees were looking to fill holes in there rotation. In that context, it is a signing that makes sense. But if there arestill gaping holes in the line up and bullpen, it really leaves you scratching your head why they didn't spread the money more evenly around the team thanjust in the rotation.
T0INE
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I can't say I've been excited. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have CC on board (Burnett)...but if the last number of years are an indicator as to how these big time free agents will work out in NY, then it's going to be the same story with these guys...
That pretty much sums up my feelings on our offseason moves thus far.
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dont matter right now
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With Peavy, yesOriginally Posted by THE SAUNA
without him no
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yes they do.
always funny to see who get's 'purchased' in the offseason by them.
always funny to see who get's 'purchased' in the offseason by them.
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Not the Lester of last season. Their rotation is what failed them, while they are thought to have more potiental we have not seen it yet.
Is that supposed to say the Lester of last year ISNT better than the rest of the Yankees staff?
The same Jon Lester that had 16 wins and had a 3.2 ERA that was 4th in the AL?
And the same Lester who threw a no-hitter?
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Why would people rather Joba pitch 70 innings than over 200 innings. Wouldn't it be more valuable for him to be more innings. And the Rays don't have abetter rotation. Possibly the Red Sox but i still think the Yankees rotation is better.
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think of it this way
joba's more valuable impacting 70-80 games rather than 35. plus he essentially makes the games 7 innings. we have the starters to get us through 6 innings,with joba in the middle of that pen we are solid all around, almost no weaknesses ..............
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Plus look at it another way. As hard as the guy throws. He won't have that 97-100 mph fastball by the 4th 5th inning. He only has 3 legitpitches. Meaning the 2nd and 3rd time people see him he's going to be hittable.
Plus Mo is going to be gone after this contract is up. We need to build someone to replace him. Joba has what it takes to close at a high profile and highpressure stage.
MON5T3R
formerly cant nobody stop me
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Is that supposed to say the Lester of last year ISNT better than the rest of the Yankees staff?
The same Jon Lester that had 16 wins and had a 3.2 ERA that was 4th in the AL?
And the same Lester who threw a no-hitter?
The same Jon Lester that lost to the Rays twice in the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by Cant Nobody Stop Me
Is that supposed to say the Lester of last year ISNT better than the rest of the Yankees staff?
The same Jon Lester that had 16 wins and had a 3.2 ERA that was 4th in the AL?
And the same Lester who threw a no-hitter?
The same Jon Lester that lost to the Rays twice in the playoffs.
The same Jon Lester who gave up 0 earned runs to the Angels in 14 innings in the series before that and won the clinching game of the World Series in 2007.
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One of the losses was like 7 IP 3 ER. That's not exactly bad. He cant swing the bat and pitch.
Other than the 5 run game vs the Rays, he was a stud in the playoffs.
Other than the 5 run game vs the Rays, he was a stud in the playoffs.
MON5T3R
formerly cant nobody stop me
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I know, im just messing with you.
bastitch
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The thought of having this guy as middle relief is absolutely ridiculous. If he's slated to be part of the rotation in the future, whetherthat's this year, next year, or some other time in the future, you don't put in as middle relief.
That simply is a horrible way to protect a young arm. If he can't start on in the Big League rotation, you leave him in AAA where he can pitch every 5thday.
I can't see how Joba pitching out of the pen as a MIDDLE RELIEVER is even remotely a good idea.
Yanks improve rotation, keep young talent
Sunday, December 14, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry
Posted by Buster Olney
The winter obsession last year was Johan Santana -- and the Yankees or the Red Sox could have had him. They could have traded for the accomplished left-hander who was about to turn 29. But what folks in both front offices decided was that the double-barreled cost was prohibitive. On the front end, both teams would have been required to surrender their top pitching prospects -- for the Red Sox, that was Jon Lester, and for the Yankees, that was Phil Hughes -- and then they would have to pay Santana like he was a free agent. It was such an extraordinary price that even some folks in the Mets' organization wondered, after getting Santana, whether it was the right thing to do. The argument that several executives made with the Red Sox and Yankees was that if you were patient -- patient -- then you might have a shot at a pitcher much like Santana in CC Sabathia, and the cost would only have one layer. Sure, you'd have to give him a huge contract, but you wouldn't have to give up top prospects along the way. [table][tr][td]Olney's news and notes[/td] [/tr][tr][td]• Indians' bullpen looking strong
• Fraud case could affect Mets
• Ibanez has Phils leaning to left
• Giambi a good fit for Tampa Bay
• Cards must act now on Fuentes
Around the majors with Buster Olney[/td] [/tr][/table]So the Yankees, in the end, were patient and got Sabathia, and the pundits who are saying that the team has blown up its plan for player development are simply not paying attention. In fact, the signings of Sabathia and A.J. Burnett are absolutely in keeping with the refocus on the farm system. Because the Yankees waited to pursue Sabathia, rather than deal for Santana, they still have Hughes and Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson and all the players mentioned in the Santana talks, and as the pitching talent pool has increased at the major league level, there is now more time for those youngsters to develop. It actually has been more than a decade since the Yankees have had as much minor league talent stacked up as they do now. Yes, they will sacrifice draft picks in landing Sabathia and Burnett. But keep in mind that the Yankees will have picks in the first and second round of the draft in 2009 because of players unsigned in 2008; it's not as if they are being shut down. The Yankees spun themselves into a hole in the past decade partly by acquiring and relying on aging pitchers (Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson) at premium prices. Now, when the free-agent machinations are over and the new Yankee Stadium opens, this is what the Yankees' rotation will look like:Compare that rotation with the Yankees' rotation in the year of their epic playoff collapse against the Red Sox:
- Sabathia, 28 years old
- Burnett, 32
- Chien-Ming Wang, 29
- Andy Pettitte, 36; or Ben Sheets, 30; or Derek Lowe, 35
- Joba Chamberlain, 23
The Yankees' rotation will be much younger next season, and it has a chance to be the strongest it has been since 1998, when Pettitte, David Cone, David Wells and Orlando Hernandez filled out the top four spots, in front of Hideki Irabu. Marlins president David Samson ripped the Yankees this week for what he portrayed as wild spending, but apparently he doesn't realize that the team's payroll is going to go down by around 10 percent. The Yankees had about $85 million in expiring contracts, and for next season, so far they've spent $23 million on Sabathia and $15 million on Burnett, and they'll spend on another veteran pitcher and probably acquire Mike Cameron; it's possible the Yankees' payroll for next season will be about $180 million to $190 million. So to review: The Yankees will be younger, cheaper and deeper, and maybe better. Who knows if all of that will be good enough to win the AL East? Burnett is an enormous risk, nobody knows if Chamberlain can stay healthy, and the Yankees don't know whether Jorge Posada can be an everyday catcher, and they don't know if Alex Rodriguez will be the monster of 2007 or the guy who seems to disappear in big spots. The Red Sox are years ahead of the Yankees in their player development and have their pipeline of talent already flowing into the big leagues, and by the end of this week, they may land the best position player, Mark Teixeira (some executives strongly believe the bidding will, in fact, end up around $200 million). The Rays have a chance to be as good or perhaps even better, because it appears they will wind up with a solid veteran hitter, and David Price will step into the rotation in 2009. In the fall of 2005, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman mapped out a course for the organization to begin building a powerhouse that combines player development and the power of the dollar, a model that looks an awful lot like what we've been seeing from the Red Sox over the past three seasons. The Yankees continue to move closer to achieving that goal. Nick Cafardo wonders if the Yankees are poised for a fall like the one the Tigers had last year. Mike Lupica has a much different opinion than my own on the Yankees' pursuit of Sabathia and Burnett. Heard this: Sabathia will arrive in New York on Monday.
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The thought of having this guy as middle relief is absolutely ridiculous. If he's slated to be part of the rotation in the future, whether that's this year, next year, or some other time in the future, you don't put in as middle relief.
That simply is a horrible way to protect a young arm. If he can't start on in the Big League rotation, you leave him in AAA where he can pitch every 5th day.
I can't see how Joba pitching out of the pen as a MIDDLE RELIEVER is even remotely a good idea.
see thats where we differ, i see him as a future closer not starter. dude has closer stuff. he has the makeup, and all the tools to be a dominant closer. moretires in two years and he can take over. dont underestimate the value of a good setup man ..........
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^ I agree. As a Red Sox fan I'd much rather see Joba start. I don't feel like he can be as effective as a starter as he can as a closer.
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Joba and Mariano in the 8th and 9th, thats as formidable of a set up man and closer as you're gonna find
bastitch
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I don't understand. If Joba is penciled to be the closer for the Yankees a year or two years from now, sure. Having him as a setup man isfine if that's the intention.
But if he's penciled in to be a starter in a couple years, you're really taking your chances putting a really young arm out there 70-80 games a year.
I'd think it's the same chances you're pulling putting him out there for 30-35 starts for 180-200 IP especially with the way his pitch countfluctuates. I don't know that's just my opinion on it I'd rather see him in the 8th inning than every fifth day because I think that's makesus a better team in the end. Again, just my opinion I could be completely wrong.
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Originally Posted by WearinTheFourFive
--Dukeshererereer
-Player 2
-Player 3
-Player 4
-Player 5
We got the Rotation game on lock.
I know you are kidding, but this is why some people dont take A's fans seriously.
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i say yes
bastitch
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But it's not the pitch count that matters. I just think there's a fundamental mis-understanding of how the body is taxed as a reliever vs. a starter.
As a starter, you are pitcing every 5th day in the rotation as well as a a bullpen session between starts. It's a very consistent and predicatableenvironment. As a reliever, your schedule is no where near the same. You can pitch on consecutive nights or not pitch for an entire week. It's moredifficult to get in bullpen sessions to work on mechanics and/or new pitches, and your chances of seeing the field are really left up to the game situation. Relievers are contantly warmed up, sat down, warmed up, brought into the game, where they can pitch anywhere from 10 to 30 pitches in game. But all thosepitches, plus the quick warm up before getting into the game, plus the frequency at which you're pitching, the 80-100 innings they may see really notindicative of the actually wear on their bodies.
It's really night and day.
And if you think it's just some trivial difference for a young arm, you're more than naive. It's not that simple.
