The Tragedy of Allen Iverson.

[CosmicGhostRider]

Originally Posted by MoonMan818

Originally Posted by Fantastic4our

^ What? The 76ers weren't a lock for the playoffs that year. The Raptors with Vince and the Bucks with Ray were actually good teams.

Iverson did carry them, especially offensively, there are no scorers on that team. AI WAS the offense.

He's without a doubt the best scoring small guy ever (yes, including Zeke)

Folks love to bring up his shooting percentage, but neglect to mention how many 2nd chance points and offensive boards this created for those Sixers teams. Plus he was always near the top in minutes per game and steals.

That might be the funniest sports argument I have ever heard. His missed shots created opportunities for his teammates

I hope you're one of AI's kids.

I'm a huge AI fan but that 2nd chance points argument is hilarious haha.

 

[0cks]

@ gettin assists from missed shots

 

[toughmoney]

AI is going to the hall of fame. No sympathy here. It is what it is. Other Athletes have went broke from bad spending choices including my dudes Scottie and T.O.

@ gettin assists from missed shots

you know Iverson got tripled team at least 25% of the time he shot to open up Derrick Coleman put backs.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I guess Fantastic4our was repping for Virginia...Bless your heart...You get funniest sports argument of the year as consolation....

 

[doublejs07]

@ Iverson not being a great player...

Lord have mercy.

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

@ Iverson not being a great player...

Lord have mercy.

He was more dominant than "great"  (In the same light Shaq has been described). Great players in team sports do whatever it takes to for their team to win (including practicing with them). I swear one of the reasons AI "retired" was to save his career win/loss record from dipping below .500 before he found a winning team that wanted him. I don't have an exact number, but I've had many an AI fan go look for themselves and conveniently never get back to me about it. 
And if I concede and give you him being "great," just make sure you'll at least acknowledge that he wasn't much of a winner. 

 

[trappstar]

AI aint great? Man, that's crazy. AI will always be that dude. Even if he broke he still cooler than all of us. AI was the architect of the bridge between basketball and hip hop. He personified the genre and balled so viciously. Everybody got love for Allen. I still remember the first day I rocked the bumble bee joints to school. I was the first cat in middle school with them. I was killin the scene that day. Hope the homie can pull it together.

 

[boys noize]

AI is great because of the second chance points and offensive boards he created off missed shots

 

[brandon3000]

@ the second chance basket arguement

 

[dmxfury]

Question through Answer V were money. Not really relevant here but true

 

[antidope]

Originally Posted by psk2310

I've read several people state this, but they never really clarified or provided detail about the statements they made. What do you think ai stood for?

I've been watching nba for a looong time. A lot longer than the most of you. As MonStar1 says, I'm the geezer on this board...ai wasn't anything but the Dominique Wilkins of the 90s. His career shooting % was 43% and his career 3 point % was 31%. Do you know how many shots he missed to get that low a %? Does anyone understand what a good shooting % is supposed to be? That's atrocious...

He stood for overcoming adversity, making it out of the hood when all the odds were stacked against you, and succeeding when millions wanted him to fail. Whether or not he tried to be those things, he was those things. He was also about staying true to himself, and even though it was inevitably his undoing, its also something that a lot of young kids dont do today. How many times have you seen someone just totally change up their personality to just appease someone? AI wasnt about that, and its something that should be respected.

 

[mjdalegend]

Originally Posted by MoonMan818

Originally Posted by Fantastic4our

^ What? The 76ers weren't a lock for the playoffs that year. The Raptors with Vince and the Bucks with Ray were actually good teams.

Iverson did carry them, especially offensively, there are no scorers on that team. AI WAS the offense.

He's without a doubt the best scoring small guy ever (yes, including Zeke)

Folks love to bring up his shooting percentage, but neglect to mention how many 2nd chance points and offensive boards this created for those Sixers teams. Plus he was always near the top in minutes per game and steals.

That might be the funniest sports argument I have ever heard. His missed shots created opportunities for his teammates

I hope you're one of AI's kids.

 

[prada g]

Tragedy?
Allen Iverson was a great player who never got a ring. Son went from being an all star to a journeymen towards the end of his career. What's new?

Iverson will always be one of my favorite players.

 

[dmoney82]

He can't go flat broke tho. He signed a lifetime deal with Reebok and gets around $4 million a year for the rest of his life.

 

[moonman818]

Originally Posted by DMoney82

He can't go flat broke tho. He signed a lifetime deal with Reebok and gets around $4 million a year for the rest of his life.

This is true.. My professor was actually talking about this in class last week. He said it was around $6 million... not sure if true though.

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by MoonMan818

Originally Posted by DMoney82

He can't go flat broke tho. He signed a lifetime deal with Reebok and gets around $4 million a year for the rest of his life.

This is true.. My professor was actually talking about this in class last week. He said it was around $6 million... not sure if true though.

If you are in debt then your money is gonna be gone before you can spend it.  Also he's a big time gambler.  I can see him have more problems in the future.

  

 

[prada g]

Originally Posted by MoonMan818

Originally Posted by DMoney82

He can't go flat broke tho. He signed a lifetime deal with Reebok and gets around $4 million a year for the rest of his life.

This is true.. My professor was actually talking about this in class last week. He said it was around $6 million... not sure if true though.

I do not think this is true.
Rose signed a "lifetime deal" with Adidas, but lifetime actually means 10 years.

 

[Platinum State]

I heard about this "lifetime contract" with reebok a lot of times but come on..............how stupid does a company have to be to do that?
How could they think he was gonna make them money past his career. Only Jordan can do that.
There has been virtually no AI merchandise for years

 

[dior paint]

Originally Posted by Prada G

Originally Posted by MoonMan818

Originally Posted by DMoney82

He can't go flat broke tho. He signed a lifetime deal with Reebok and gets around $4 million a year for the rest of his life.

This is true.. My professor was actually talking about this in class last week. He said it was around $6 million... not sure if true though.

I do not think this is true.
Rose signed a "lifetime deal" with Adidas, but lifetime actually means 10 years.

[h3]5- Allen Iverson - basketball[/h3]Sponsor: Reebok
Estimated Value: $5 million a year (lifetime)

After Allen Iverson first signed with the Sixers, he put his signature on a 10-year, $50 million contract with Reebok. In November 2001, he got a lifetime extension on that deal. Terms of this deal weren't disclosed. His signature shoe, "The Answer," was among the top sellers in America. Reebok rebuilt its basketball and clothing lines around him.

Forbes estimates that Iverson made $19 million between June 2002 and June 2003. His 2002-'03 salary was $12.7 million, or about two-thirds of his total income. The initial Reebok deal was worth $5 million a year. Apparently, that annual payout is guaranteed for life. With that in mind, the Reebok check accounts for 26% of his annual pay.

Read more: http://www.askmen.com/sports/business_100/101b_sports_business.html#ixzz1lhjGwHyG

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

@ Iverson not being a great player...

Lord have mercy.

He was more dominant than "great"  (In the same light Shaq has been described). Great players in team sports do whatever it takes to for their team to win (including practicing with them). I swear one of the reasons AI "retired" was to save his career win/loss record from dipping below .500 before he found a winning team that wanted him. I don't have an exact number, but I've had many an AI fan go look for themselves and conveniently never get back to me about it. 
And if I concede and give you him being "great," just make sure you'll at least acknowledge that he wasn't much of a winner. 

I'm not going to disagree with you on what you said about the winning percentage, however that doesn't take away from how good of a player he was.  Also, maybe you want to re-think what you said about the Shaq/AI comparison.  Seriously.  Shaq, more dominant than great? 

  I don't even know how that makes any sense.  If you're dominant, aren't you a great player?  It's minutia, but I don't like how you're twisting words to marginalize Iverson. 

Speaking of marginalization, I swear...NT is the ONLY place where people don't respect his talent.  Folks debating whether or not he's a HOFer, a great player, etc etc...Yes, he was the reason for his own downfall because of being unwilling to conform his style of play in the latter stages of his career.  Had he done that, there is probably a team out there that would have EASILY had him come off the bench as a spark in a Jason Terry-esque type of role.  However, Iverson couldn't check his own ego to do this. 

He's a great player....one of the 50 best to EVER set foot in the NBA.  I'm sad to see his NBA career come to an abrupt end, but he has no one to blame but himself.  He's one of my favorite players all time and I've watched him play ever since he got the pardon from jail to come to G'Town.  He, is just like Charles Barkley.  A freak.  Let me know the next time a 6'0" scoring guard is taken #1 overall (brought up Barkley because of him being a dominant 6'4" PF...unreal). 

Think about it...you have guys every year in college hoops like Keydren Clark, Luis Flores, Sir Valiant Brown, Marcus Hatten, etc who hardly get a sniff at the 1st round, let alone the NBA at all.  These guys are ALL Iverson clones, but this goes to show how damn good Iverson was. 

If this is it for AI, then so be it.  It was a hell of a career, and I can't wait to see him inducted into the HOF. 

 

[trasoul82]

Anyone who thinks Iverson is receiving a $5 Million check annually from Reebok is absolutely crazy. 
http://articles.philly.com/2001-11-29/sports/25322061_1_apparel-line-sixers-wizards-apparel-contract

"This contract goes beyond Allen's career," Paul Fireman, chairman and CEO of Reebok said at a news conference at the First Union Center before last night's Sixers-Wizards game. "Hopefully, he will have an illustrious, long, long career in the NBA. But we don't consider our relationship to be one that will stop the moment his career ends. We'll actually continue to bring forth products and engage consumers for years after his career is over."

Neither of things these things happening 

+

There is a morals clause in the contract, although sources would not describe what it says.

+

Casino disturbances/Notorious cheating/Drinking Issues/Being blackballed by the NBA

+

Adidas acquiring Reebok in 2005 (I have to assume some things were restructured)

+

Iverson going to Turkey (and showing little to no flashes of greatness) and considering Puerto Rico

=

Iverson isn't getting paid much by Reebok. Definitely not $5M. Reebok clearly placed the "lifetime" portion on his ability to sustain a long career and move product after retirement. Stephen A Smith said himself that he was quoting multiple GMs verbatim when he said "No way in hell" to signing Iverson. 

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

I'm not going to disagree with you on what you said about the winning percentage, however that doesn't take away from how good of a player he was.  Also, maybe you want to re-think what you said about the Shaq/AI comparison.  Seriously.  Shaq, more dominant than great? 

  I don't even know how that makes any sense.  If you're dominant, aren't you a great player?  It's minutia, but I don't like how you're twisting words to marginalize Iverson.  
 



I wasn't comparing Shaq to AI, per say.  I was just talking in the context of how people say Shaq was the most dominant big man ever but not necessarily the greatest big man ever. That's all. 
And make no mistake about it, I can't stand AI. I honestly don't like the bits of his character I've been allowed to see so I do tend to marginalize his existence. BUT... I do at least try to do it with facts and not outlandish claims that hold no merit. With that said, take my hate with a grain of salt, I just can't stand to hear folks who should be grown-+!* men by now talking about how "real" he kept it. He never matured, and it still disgusts me, even though I've been calling his downfall for years now (Ask JMoneyBaggz/MrFantastic, if he's still around). So yeah... 

 

[scott frost]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Anyone who thinks Iverson is receiving a $5 Million check annually from Reebok is absolutely crazy. 
http://articles.philly.com/2001-11-29/sports/25322061_1_apparel-line-sixers-wizards-apparel-contract

"This contract goes beyond Allen's career," Paul Fireman, chairman and CEO of Reebok said at a news conference at the First Union Center before last night's Sixers-Wizards game. "Hopefully, he will have an illustrious, long, long career in the NBA. But we don't consider our relationship to be one that will stop the moment his career ends. We'll actually continue to bring forth products and engage consumers for years after his career is over."

Neither of things these things happening 

+

There is a morals clause in the contract, although sources would not describe what it says.

+

Casino disturbances/Notorious cheating/Drinking Issues/Being blackballed by the NBA

+

Adidas acquiring Reebok in 2005 (I have to assume some things were restructured)

+

Iverson going to Turkey (and showing little to no flashes of greatness) and considering Puerto Rico

=

Iverson isn't getting paid much by Reebok. Definitely not $5M. Reebok clearly placed the "lifetime" portion on his ability to sustain a long career and move product after retirement. Stephen A Smith said himself that he was quoting multiple GMs verbatim when he said "No way in hell" to signing Iverson. 

Here is what we know as the general public, including you, in regards to this contract:  He signed a lifetime deal

Here is what the general public, including you, know related to the specifics of this contract:  nothing. 

  

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by Scott Frost

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Anyone who thinks Iverson is receiving a $5 Million check annually from Reebok is absolutely crazy. 
http://articles.philly.com/2001-11-29/sports/25322061_1_apparel-line-sixers-wizards-apparel-contract

"This contract goes beyond Allen's career," Paul Fireman, chairman and CEO of Reebok said at a news conference at the First Union Center before last night's Sixers-Wizards game. "Hopefully, he will have an illustrious, long, long career in the NBA. But we don't consider our relationship to be one that will stop the moment his career ends. We'll actually continue to bring forth products and engage consumers for years after his career is over."

Neither of things these things happening 

+

There is a morals clause in the contract, although sources would not describe what it says.

+

Casino disturbances/Notorious cheating/Drinking Issues/Being blackballed by the NBA

+

Adidas acquiring Reebok in 2005 (I have to assume some things were restructured)

+

Iverson going to Turkey (and showing little to no flashes of greatness) and considering Puerto Rico

=

Iverson isn't getting paid much by Reebok. Definitely not $5M. Reebok clearly placed the "lifetime" portion on his ability to sustain a long career and move product after retirement. Stephen A Smith said himself that he was quoting multiple GMs verbatim when he said "No way in hell" to signing Iverson. 

Here is what we know as the general public, including you, in regards to this contract:  He signed a lifetime deal

Here is what the general public, including you, know related to the specifics of this contract:  nothing. 

  
Just ignore the fact that the morals clause was clearly noted and pretend that I said I know specifics.
Here is what you've added to this thread: nothing. 

 

[scott frost]

So citing a standard moral clause does what exactly?