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Maz looked into Reys eyes and saw the legacy of the force. Maz looked into finns eyes and told him to take the next ship to the outer rim[/img]
but then tells him he needs to help his friend
Star Wars Universe Thread: May The 4th Be With You
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Guest
Guys, we gotta realize that Ep VII had to do a lot for the Star Wars narrative. I understand that some of the plot might be thin and there are a lot of questions we gotta get answered, but when I look at what Ep VII had to do, I realize it's a lot:
Ep VII sets the stage for an entirely new story that we have NO idea where it's going. Not since 1980, when ESB came out, have we not known what's coming next. I thought Ep VII did a great job of laying things, both old and new, out there and setting the game plan for the next few movies.
- Had to introduce an entirely new set of characters (Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, Snoke, Hux, Phasma (I know, I know), Maz, BB8, etc.) and establish some back story for each of them. That in itself is a crazy amount of information.
- Had to re-introduce the original trilogy characters AND mesh them into the new narrative and characters (Han, Leia, Luke, R2, 3PO, Vader, etc.).
- Set the stage for a new trilogy.
Ep VII sets the stage for an entirely new story that we have NO idea where it's going. Not since 1980, when ESB came out, have we not known what's coming next. I thought Ep VII did a great job of laying things, both old and new, out there and setting the game plan for the next few movies.
- Sep 4, 2006
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10 of the main goods guys from the originals:
Luke - featured in VII
Leia - featured in VII
C-3PO - featured in VII
R2-D2 - featured in VII
Han - featured in VII
Chewy - featured in VII
Kenobi - voice is apparently featured in VII
Yoda - voice is apparently featured in VII
*Lando - ??? not featured in VII
*Anakin - not featured in VII
Luke - featured in VII
Leia - featured in VII
C-3PO - featured in VII
R2-D2 - featured in VII
Han - featured in VII
Chewy - featured in VII
Kenobi - voice is apparently featured in VII
Yoda - voice is apparently featured in VII
*Lando - ??? not featured in VII
*Anakin - not featured in VII
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Movie was ok at best. It was basically Episode IV again which I thought was meh.
The big giant planet death machine with the single weak point again?!?!? Smh
I liked what they've done with characters and I'm excited to see where that goes.
The big giant planet death machine with the single weak point again?!?!? Smh
I liked what they've done with characters and I'm excited to see where that goes.
Nike Jordan
Supporter
- Jun 27, 2002
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Record $238 million opening weekend.
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formerly beyondmeasure
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Kylo being deep cover was my thought too.
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Good review on this so thanks for posting it. I can see why you didn't like the movie. However, I technically don't see how you could've disliked it more than the prequelsMaster Zik @KingKoopa Sorry gents, went straight to sleep after posting that lol one benefit of this site over the Star Wars one is that I can use spoilers to keep the post from being gigantic.
Just came from seeing the film and I wanted to post a review while everything is fresh in my mind. With time my opinion of some things/events is bound to change to some extent, but right now I can honestly say that this is my least favorite Star Wars film. I went in pretty hyped for this and that's rare for me in terms of movies, but its freaking Star Wars so I can't help it.Plus the trailers were all top notch, perfectly designed to tug at the heartstrings. So that being said, this film just didn't manage to live up to my hype. Not something unique to this film, but it is what it is. Covering both the good and the bad, the first thing I have to say is about Poe. His character in general surprised me. I had little to no knowledge of this film going in so I didn't know about him at all. Looking back, I remember a scene of him flying being in the trailer, but I honestly assumed he'd just be some random and expendable pilot. He wasn't though and while he doesn't get as much screentime as Finn or Ray he's honestly my favorite of the three. Witty, charismatic, somewhat sure of himself, ability to stay cool under pressure, and fighting for a good cause. Simple, nothing groundbreaking, but i'd read a book about this guy any day of the week and would certainly watch a film about him.
Finn
Finn..started off good, but steadily declined throughout the film. I felt that the character was specifically given a lot of humurous comments for some reason and all they did was take me out of the film. That's really never happened for me in a Star Wars film. (Last time something like this happened in fact is when I was watching Guardians of the Galaxy and Quill's 80's music kept playing. Completely threw me off.) And this goes beyond just this character. At various points, from the things people were saying to the things I was viewing (In terms of various settings, such as the planet Luke's on at the end, specifically the hill him and Ray are standing on) just didn't feel like Star Wars to me. This ended up making me feel as if I was watching another film entirely at points, but with Star Wars references then thrown in. Like I was shocked when an old character like C-3P0 or Leia would appear, because they looked so darn out of place in the film I was watching. Back to Finn, this character just didn't pull me in. I didn't really go in expecting him to be some instant hero or anything, but I still expected more, even from a Storm Trooper. Dude's constantly panicking and at the same time I don't think a good job was done explaining just why he out of all the troopers had chosen to betray the First Order. His background wasn't explained anywhere near well enough for me to really buy into his story. Did like his constant position as a shooter rather than a pilot however, as it's just a nice change. What I didn't like was him using the lightsaber, specifically against Kylo Ren. Honestly, he should've been killed in a few seconds. He doesn't seem to have the Force and he has no training with the blade. There should literally be no comparison to him and Ren, yet somehow he held off Ren for a good minute! This then leads into Rey.
Rey
She also should've been swiftly killed and the bit with her resisting Ren's power and then turning it against him was terrible. An untrained Force Sensitive, whose only blatant experience with the Force was an illusion she had earlier that day is capable of not only resisting a person that's been training in and utilizing it for years, but can then defeat that person in a lightsaber duel?!Disney tried to make up for it to some extent by having Ren be wounded by Chewie, but even that's not enough to really make it ok in my eyes. That Jedi Mind Trick thing was more of the same. Just everything that had to do with her using the Force after the illusion was terrible, plain and simple. Before that however, I really had no complaints with her character by itself. I think that the writers laid on the ship tease between her and Finn WAY too heavily. They're not even a couple and i'd already call them the worst pairing in the series (The currently canon series). Doesn't help that I didn't see any chemistry between the actors. However, I kind of liked Ray from the start. Simple girl, living in the desert , with an affinity for technology/mechanics. Similar to Poe there's a definite comparison to Han and Luke as well, but not to the point that I was insulted by it. Outside of whatever she has going on with the Force, i'd actually like to see more of her.
Han
And then there's Han...I'm hesitant to say it's a flaw for a film to kill a character, but there are a few reasons that I think this was the wrong move. First and foremost they killed Han ****ing Solo man. :_| I'll be honest, I could have gone my entire life without seeing that scene and been just fine. But even then, it wasn't necessarily a badly done scene. I felt real emotion coming from both actors as they spoke to each other and the way the scene was done, with the light fading leading up to Han's death, was excellent and reminded me of other great moments in the franchise. At the same time, why kill him off in the first film? That just seems like a waste of an excellent, classic character. Not only does he bring a lot to the franchise on his own, and with his relationships with the other classic characters, but he brings a lot to the table in terms of Kylo Ren. Honestly? This scene would have held so much more weight had it been built up further from this film, into the next film, and taken place in the 9th film. It could've easily been something akin to Luke facing Vader again on the Second Death Star. Yet it wasn't, because it came about in the same film that we meet Kylo Ren, when we're still getting to know him as a character. It therefore loses a lot of the impact it could have had. So even if we see Han's death as something that had to happen, it just could've been done better.
Kylo Ren
Leading into Kylo Ren, he was both better and worse than I expected. There's more depth to him than I thought there'd be. For one, I wasn't expecting him to be Han and Leia's son, and by extension Vader's grandson. I was honestly expecting him to be a former pupil of Vader's and really nothing more. Forging those connections is a good thing that can be used for some great writing opportunities down the line and even in terms of any stories they choose to write that take place before this film. There are a lot of parallels to this guy and Anakin/Vader though, from the clothes to the personality. Being Vader's grandson I can't necessarily be too surprised, but I think it also could've been handled better. Really just need to know more about this guy honestly. Luke tried to rebuild the Jedi Order and he's responsible for screwing it up. How? Why? What exactly went wrong in his relationship with his parents or Luke that he turned to the Dark Side? Leia mentions sending him away, but away to where? To be with Luke? Ok, but why is that a bad thing? Luke's his uncle and you'd think would love to spend time with him. Just a very bad situation, with too many unknowns at the moment. Vader was similar back in the day, but he at least had the ominous presence going for him and instantly became a menacing villain. Could never feel the same from Ren for two reasons. One, trying too hard to be Vader. And two, just not that visually menacing to me, which might just tie back into him trying too hard to be someone else. Whereas Darth Maul and Count Dooku both stood completely seperate. His temper tantrums also didn't help. Think it actually would've been better had he killed more people, as it would've given more weight and tragedy to his actions. Destroying property is bad and all, but it can all be replaced no matter how much you slash it with your wonky lightsaber.
Open
As a whole, I understand that the first film in a series is meant to kick things off and not conclude too much. It should leave room for development and I see that here. There is potential in terms of all three of the new main characters. At the same time however, this isn't the first film in a franchise. This is a continuation of a franchise that's already six films in and there's no way to get around that. Being a prequel it was really just common sense that films 1-3 would be explaining how we get to where we are in episode 4. There was a natural connection from the jump. As a sequel I can understand very easily how it could be harder to forge a similar connection and the writers failed in my opinion. Beyond some old characters and events, this really doesn't feel like the same universe that I saw in any of the first six films. That's a very real problem, seeing as all of those films are canon. There should be a connection, but there isn't. There's not really any explanation as to how we got from ROTJ to here and I actually think that an explanation is critical, seeing as this is again the first film of the new trilogy. I think we need a lot of them. I'm tempted to say that this isn't a direct sequel at all, but instead just a mostly seperate adventure taking place in some other corner of the Star Wars universe. That in itself is fine, but it then also shouldn't be episode 7, because that implies a direct sequel and will have people expecting it to be something else. Why is there a lack of connection? I hate to say it, because even to me it sounds liek someone complaining because of the change, but it really seems to be because Lucas isn't there anymore. Different people write differently, just like they speak differently. In every single Star Wars film previously I could feel Lucas' presence/style. Looking at the EU I could feel the same in terms of writer's who worked on multiple novels. Denning, Allston, Zahn, everyone had his or her own way of doing things and it showed. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Here I don't believe it works in terms of the previous films and believe it would have been a lot better were this not a Star Wars film but the start of a completely different franchise entirely.
Incomplete
This film honestly feels incomplete. There is clearly meant to be a sequel for it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, I also believe that films should still be capable of standing on their own, with solid stories. A New Hope did this. Empire Strikes Back did this. Return of the Jedi did this. All three are connected, there are bits and pieces of storylines available to be picked up in the next film, but the stories themselves that the films are telling remain complete, interesting, and entertaining. Can't say the same for this film. I actually think they left too much open. They laid a lot of groundwork, but didn't develop enough of the building they're trying to create. Who are the Knights of Ren? Don't know. How did the First Order come about and how is it connected to the Empire/Republic? Good questions. How exactly did the New Republic rise? Haven't a clue. What exactly is the Resistance and what are they resisting if the New Republic already exists as a governing body in the galaxy? No idea. Who is Snoke and how'd he get his claws into Ben Solo? Couldn't tell you. Just question after question that went unanswered, when many of them honestly could have been and should have been answered within this film that is again a SEQUEL to a previous work, taking place after a very long timeskip. Naturally things would change in the years that passed, so naturally we are going to be wondering about not only what, but how and why. There's not an equal amount of any.
Comparisons
There are a ton of references and comparisons to previous films already in this, but I really don't think that anyone present holds up to their classic counterparts. Ren's not Vader, Snoke's not Palpatine, the Resistance isn't the Rebellion, the First Order isn't the Empire, and so on. Yet it's that much worse because I feel like all of them are trying to be these things. This even affects the main plot, with a terrible rehash of a New Hope in terms of the Death Star. The lack of creativity here honestly blows my mind and I truly cannot fathom why anyone would think that it would be a good idea to copy a New Hope so blatantly. Things like this honestly come off as either a homage gone terribly wrong or a fullblown insult.
Luke
Finally, Luke. Going in I was not looking forward to Luke having been absent from the galaxy for thirty some years. (Which was the only real piece of information I knew about the film before seeing the trailers, and the reason I stopped coming on this forum shortly after I learned that) I think that rebuilding the Jedi Order is something that he should be looking into very soon after ROTJ is complete. So I was actually happy to see it mentioned that he had tried, failed, and exiled himself because of that failure. Not sure on when exactly the exile was, because no exact date is given in terms of years, but it was clearly long enough that people in the galaxy doubt whether or not he was a real person. That's then a problem, because I don't think Luke should just be giving up after one failure. However, there's then the fact that said failure was his nephew, which makes it more emotional and adds a solid layer of guilt to the equation. This is again something that I believe needs more development and could have used just a bit more explanation in this film.
Conclusion
All in all, I never really felt an actual threat from Ren and the First Order. Yeah they have a giant death cannon. Yeah they've got hundreds of thousands of troops. But they didn't feel threatening to me personally. I've complained about some of Marvel's films that at the end of the day I just never for a second believed that the bad guy was scary or could actually win. Back in the day, I felt that from Darth Vader. I felt that from Darth Maul. I felt that from the Joker. (Both film versions in fact). I felt that from Bane. I didn't feel it from Kylo Ren and his military rival (Hux? Believe that was his name), just like I didn't feel it from Electro in the last Spider-Man film. Heck, even when he's having his final duel with our heroes I didn't feel it, whereas when Luke was dueling Vader on Bespin and Maul Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon on Naboo I was really, really worried for the good guys. So I think that they failed to draw me in as villains, and I again think that's very bad when this is the start of a new triology. As with everything else there's room for development and i'm actually hoping that the sequel is just going to be better than this film in every single way and blow it out of the water, but it's something that I think should've been achieved in this film to some extent. And you know based on reviews I can see that some people feel the same as me and that others feel differently. Ren's character in particular some people find annoying and whiny and others found to be cool and threatening. So as with all Star Wars films there'll be diverging opinions on what worked and what didn't and i'm actually interested to see how the fanbase is going to look back on this film 3 to 5 years from now.
When it comes to Han, there's two reasons for what happened. One is the real life explanation; Harrison Ford wanted to die back in RotJ, he's not as fond of the SW franchise as the rest of the OG cast. He really didn't like that his character didn't die. I almost think it's a guarantee that the only way he agreed to come back for ep VII is that if they agreed to kill Han. So there's that. Maybe you're aware of this, I think most SW fans are. Then the 2nd reason, the story reason, ties in to some of your problems with Ren; the build up for the death is reliant on what we all already know about Han. We know what he's done and been through in the OT, that's how his death is suppose to hit you. That Ren is his son, that he wants to be on the dark side and isn't just seduced by it, and he kills his father at the climax lets you know as things go on he'll be more of a threat. There's comparisons to Vader but from what I'm getting they're building up Ren to be a villain in his own right which is why they didn't drag out Han's inevitable death in ep IX. I assume they got bigger reveals and twists coming up which will also address some of your questions.
As for the incomplete talk I don't know about that cuz for one example, I notice in ESB Luke knows Leia is his sister, she asks what's wrong, he says ask me again later. He tells her in RotJ. That's 3 years later. That's inconsistent. What the **** took so long? Son could've taught her to use the force better in that gap. It's a reach to think of it as anything less. Not as big of a reach but something that also bugged me is Lando and Chewie go to find Han frozen in carbonite att he end of ESB and that too takes 3 years but when Han is freed in RotJ it's like Lando and Luke already had this plan set up to escape the planet which was apart of the earlier plan when Leia freed him from the carbonite. So there's stuff like that in the OT and I'm sure in the PT too. But that was just one thing I've been holding on to
Also there's no way you really thought Obi-Wan was in danger against Maul since we know he dies in ANH
but I get what you're saying about the villain being a real threat.
They show this at the end of ESB after Luke is saved from the cloud city. Some nurse or robot is working on his cyborg hand and closes it up.
Lucas is still the man
Also Frank Oz recorded some new stuff for the Rey visions scene too. They blended Ewan and Guiness's voice for some of the obi wan stuff. (The "Rey" is taken from when Guiness said 'afraid')
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens
Wow
First George comes with the I'm only making movies for me and my friends, you ppl will never see them. Then this dude comes up to him like a clown with this Jurassic World talk and he tells dude I'll crush you like a bug
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formerly beyondmeasure
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it's so confusing because earlier LucasFilms was advertising the book as the first canonical novelization in the series
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You're right him finding out Leia was his sis was in RotJ.
I'm thinking of something else that took 3 years from ESB to RotJ.
...So
formerly beyondmeasure
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this
literally only his name and the fact that he was Sheev's master is Canon. it's still a good book but the information in it is completely non-essential to the current SW universe
- Aug 2, 2006
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I haven't had a chance to read everyone's response it was an objectively good movie but from a personal taste point of view...
It has to do with Finn.
Maybe one day I'll get over it, but right now I haven't
*shrugs*
Is it a prohblem with the movie or a problem with me? I can't decide.
It has to do with Finn.
What they did with Finn made me really salty, part of it is the bait and switch they pulled, but the other part probability has to do with male privilege/expectations that comes with sci-fi movie and film period.
Women have been used throughout fiction to take move the plot forward, to make the main character usually a man rise to action, move their emotional arc forward and in this film Finn is put in the role historically reserved for women. it's terrible that feamle characters are pigeon holed this way and I get why women don't like becuase...
I didn't like it, and the farther I get away from it the more It annoys me. and it hads nothing to do witht he quality of the film just my own baggage that I haven't quite gotten over. Movies have advanced to the point where a Woman can be the lead so somebody has got to be in the "***** seat" (I shouldn't use this term but I just saw the movie and Im still annoyed)
and it turns out it's going to be black men.
Every waifish white women in media has a giant black dude to take L's for the sake of her plot development, Mechad Brooks is out here taking L's in Supergirl, Luke Cage taking L's for Jessica Jones. Jon Boyega is in for a tirlogy of L's. ect It's the new wave.
I get it had to happen but I just wish...they would let my dude Boyega shine a little bit more.
Women have been used throughout fiction to take move the plot forward, to make the main character usually a man rise to action, move their emotional arc forward and in this film Finn is put in the role historically reserved for women. it's terrible that feamle characters are pigeon holed this way and I get why women don't like becuase...
I didn't like it, and the farther I get away from it the more It annoys me. and it hads nothing to do witht he quality of the film just my own baggage that I haven't quite gotten over. Movies have advanced to the point where a Woman can be the lead so somebody has got to be in the "***** seat" (I shouldn't use this term but I just saw the movie and Im still annoyed)
and it turns out it's going to be black men.
Every waifish white women in media has a giant black dude to take L's for the sake of her plot development, Mechad Brooks is out here taking L's in Supergirl, Luke Cage taking L's for Jessica Jones. Jon Boyega is in for a tirlogy of L's. ect It's the new wave.
I get it had to happen but I just wish...they would let my dude Boyega shine a little bit more.
Maybe one day I'll get over it, but right now I haven't
*shrugs*
Is it a prohblem with the movie or a problem with me? I can't decide.
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I ultimately agree.
I'm talking more about my own feelings than the movie.
The movie, was good, rey is good, happy girls get Rey long time coming, too long but....I'm still salty tho.
- Feb 29, 2000
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Had that action figure wondered the same thing lol
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I would make her babies.
That accent
That accent
- Feb 29, 2000
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Finn is the princess leia poe the han rey the luke
I hope rey builds a pink or orange lightsaber
I hope rey builds a pink or orange lightsaber
- Aug 7, 2014
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can anyone link me to a black series capt phasma for retail??? need one soooo bad
I ultimately agree.
I'm talking more about my own feelings than the movie.
The movie, was good, rey is good, happy girls get Rey long time coming, too long but....I'm still salty tho.
I think Finn was more impressive than people think. He CHOSE to leave the New Order. Literally taking off his Stormtrooper uniform.
He chose to save Poe.
He helped Rey at every turn. No thought to his own safety.
And he stood toe to toe with Kylo Ren, with a light saber, and lived to tell about it.
Finn had a good first story. And he still could become Force sensitive down the line. This could just be them slow playing us.
...So
formerly beyondmeasure
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I ultimately agree.
I'm talking more about my own feelings than the movie.
The movie, was good, rey is good, happy girls get Rey long time coming, too long but....I'm still salty tho.
I think Finn was more impressive than people think. He CHOSE to leave the New Order. Literally taking off his Stormtrooper uniform.
He chose to save Poe.
He helped Rey at every turn. No thought to his own safety.
And he stood toe to toe with Kylo Ren, with a light saber, and lived to tell about it.
Finn had a good first story. And he still could become Force sensitive down the line. This could just be them slow playing us.
All of this!!!!!
- Jan 14, 2005
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when Finn says "come and get it" 
He got washed but the fact that he didn't back down is why I like his character.
He lowkey started off the movie a coward, running but ended the movie facing his demons, brave af
He got washed but the fact that he didn't back down is why I like his character.
He lowkey started off the movie a coward, running but ended the movie facing his demons, brave af
