Should ALL Drugs Be Fully Legalized? vol. Watch the clip - Meth, Heroine, Crack

ok what i think is an important point to consider that Friedman breezes through given the nature of his audience is the following:

The legalization of drugs will result in many social changes, one of which is the fact that there will be no people in prison for possession-based charges. Thecost per year for the US Gov to keep an individual incarcarated varies betweetn 27000-30,000 dollars a year. Multiplying this number by the number of peoplearrested for possession based offenses - 1.5 to 1.6million a year, you get right under 50 BILLION. Up to 50 billion a year is spent on keeping drug users injaill (and this doesnt count the cost of maintaining those that are ALREADY in jail and are serving multi-year sentences.

Assume the following:

We legalize all drugs and tax them relatively heavily (enough to internalize whatever externality they may cause). This money is then used on police forcethroughout the country. The tax revenue will be in the tens of billions of dollars (if not more) undoubtedly. Using this tax revenue, coupled with the moneysaved from prison costs, the US Gov should be able to expand our police force to significantly greater sizes and can do so without imposing upon our freedom.Not only will this contain drug crime (and its tough to argue that a 100billion dollar increase in police expenditure wont), but it will also reduce crimesthat are not drug related. Once it is legalized, it becomes "corporate" exactly like how alcohol is now. This will cripple gangs and cartels bothdomestically and internationally as it accounts for a significant portion of their funds, once again contributing to reducing crime.

Rex brought up the point that legalizing it would cause the price to drop significantly, and this is 100% right. So if the drug industry becomes morecompetitive, users are able to afford their drug more easily and it would become priced just like any other consumption good - I mean really, how much does itCOST to grow weed? The price drop will be huge. Friedman mentioned the point that most of these drugs do not cause you to go on a violent rage but ratherpacify and sedate you. The issue, however, is what they will do to get their drug when they are not high and that is where the role of the police force coupledwith the price drop come in.

And in a comparative context, the effect alcohol has on people is considerably worse than most drugs. Maybe not in its addictive qualities, but in the range ofsocial costs its undoubtedly comparable.

On a personal note, I use no drugs in any way (i barely drink lol). I just think that the role of govnt should be contained. This is just an explination of thepoint friedman was making with greater detail.
 
I can't believe some of the things I'm hearing on NT.

You guys realize what addicts do? They stop socializing, do ridiculously stupid things, quit their jobs, lose their families, and not to mention completelydestroy themselves physically and psychologically.

Crime would go down because they would stop robbing people for money? You are assuming that they are still fully functional blue or white collared workers thatstill wake up at 6 in the morning and work an 8-4.
I just don't see such a thing happening. I think instead, we would end up using tax payers money and sending these people to rehab/hospital instead ofprison. Could you imagine middle and high school students on drugs all the time? Don't think they wouldn't try it, they would just get it from olderteenagers/siblings/young adults. After all, alcohol is a major problem among young teenagers and that is considered legal.

Educating people about drugs? That worked perfectly for cigarettes and alcohol.
 
Honestly, with the weed thing...

Anyone who wants to smoke weed right now has the power to do so. They will find it.

Legalizing it will just save them the grief and paranoia of getting caught.
 
Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

yeah....like DUI checkpoints.
being able to jail and book ppl under the influence for DUI
being able to seize cars (eg NYC) for ppl driving under the influence.
being able to sentence those with multiple DUIs with harsher penalties
being able to revoke the driving privileges of people with multiple DUIs

so yeah..... those things.
dont see what this has to do with legalizing drugs

dui's are already illegal regardless of the legality of the substance involved....sounds like your problem is with lax dui laws, not drug legalization.
and that was my original reply..
no.
at least not without other laws to curb the natural byproduct of harm done to other people by those under the influence
 
i wish they would so they can save chicago black youth first the only drugs youngins did was weed
now its ex weed and syrup and quietly coke is becoming cool to some youths
man anything to save my city is needed these boys out here is 14/16 years old shooting with no remorse because of
the influence of ex and syrup on the mind i cant stand it
 
Stupidest thing you could ever waste your time even thinking about....You want someone on crack/meth taking care or beingaround your children?...I dont think people really think or take into consideration the different effects drugs have on different people...paranoia or acertain high can turn you into killing somebody...its really no debate/discussion about this
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

yeah....like DUI checkpoints.
being able to jail and book ppl under the influence for DUI
being able to seize cars (eg NYC) for ppl driving under the influence.
being able to sentence those with multiple DUIs with harsher penalties
being able to revoke the driving privileges of people with multiple DUIs

so yeah..... those things.
dont see what this has to do with legalizing drugs

dui's are already illegal regardless of the legality of the substance involved....sounds like your problem is with lax dui laws, not drug legalization.
and that was my original reply..
no.
at least not without other laws to curb the natural byproduct of harm done to other people by those under the influence



exactly.....and there are, in fact, laws already in place that deal with this issue, right?
 
Qualmes wrote:
Stupidest thing you could ever waste your time even thinking about....

So it is stupid to even criticize or question our war on drugs?


You want someone on crack/meth taking care or being around your children?...

I assume that you do not want the 21st Amendment repealed, the 18th reinstated and national alcohol prohibition restored. I also am guessing that you would not want a drunken baby sitter either.


I dont think people really think or take into consideration the different effects drugs have on different people...paranoia or a certain high can turn you into killing somebody...

For one thing, do you believe that if it is legalized that the use of methamphetamine would significantly increase? Second, even if there were a large increase in the number of heavy meth users, they could be checked by a police force whose priorities could shift from non violent drug related "crime" towards actual crime, violent crime.


its really no debate/discussion about this

If you are talking about the fact that mind altering drugs alter how a person's mind works, you are right.

If you are talking about being able to counter the points I made about the War On Drugs causing more harm then drugs ever could, you have been right thus far, you have kept resorting to emotional appeals in the face of facts. Your intentions seem good, you obviously do care about the welfare of people but you really should do like Thomas Sowell says and "think beyond stage one."




BTW, I completely agree with dirtylicious that there should be efforts to contain and minimize the new costs and dangers presented by legalization. As I saidin others posts and other threads on this topic, drug legalization will not be costless, it simply is less costly than drug prohibition and drug legalizationshould mean putting it in the same legal status as tobacco and alcohol. There is nothing wrong with truly sensible regulation.

For those saying how bad legalization would be because minors could get drugs, consider that minors have a much more difficult time getting alcohol than theydo at getting illegal drugs. Legal narcotics would mean that minors would be less likely to have access to those substances
 
Originally Posted by ProduccionFrescos

Couldn't care less about anything else, just legalize marijuana.
happy.gif
 
Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

yeah....like DUI checkpoints.
being able to jail and book ppl under the influence for DUI
being able to seize cars (eg NYC) for ppl driving under the influence.
being able to sentence those with multiple DUIs with harsher penalties
being able to revoke the driving privileges of people with multiple DUIs

so yeah..... those things.
dont see what this has to do with legalizing drugs

dui's are already illegal regardless of the legality of the substance involved....sounds like your problem is with lax dui laws, not drug legalization.
and that was my original reply..
no.
at least not without other laws to curb the natural byproduct of harm done to other people by those under the influence
exactly.....and there are, in fact, laws already in place that deal with this issue, right?

no. there are not.

especially with respect to detection.
you can detect someone who is driving drunk with a breathalyzer...but for those who refuse that, or those that are under the influence of another drug, youhave to get blood drawn...which could take hours...after such time...the drug in question can be out of the person's system. New laws need to be createdwhereby someone who refuses a breathalyzer can have their blood drawn immediately.

Additionally, the current laws in existence with respect to the welfare of children need to be revisted and looked at so that users of (the now legal)drugs areheld responsible to a standard of care.
and I'm sure there are a lot more laws that really need a once over to make sure there are no loopholes created.

so like I said...NO, at least until all other laws are also amended, to minimize the potential harm that will come from legalization
 
I believe drugs should be legalized, but it's far away from current reality.

Maybe when more people realize the War on Drugs is an ideological war that gives the military political clout, they'll ask for some changes.
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

yeah....like DUI checkpoints.
being able to jail and book ppl under the influence for DUI
being able to seize cars (eg NYC) for ppl driving under the influence.
being able to sentence those with multiple DUIs with harsher penalties
being able to revoke the driving privileges of people with multiple DUIs

so yeah..... those things.
dont see what this has to do with legalizing drugs

dui's are already illegal regardless of the legality of the substance involved....sounds like your problem is with lax dui laws, not drug legalization.
and that was my original reply..
no.
at least not without other laws to curb the natural byproduct of harm done to other people by those under the influence
exactly.....and there are, in fact, laws already in place that deal with this issue, right?
no. there are not.

especially with respect to detection.
you can detect someone who is driving drunk with a breathalyzer...but for those who refuse that, or those that are under the influence of another drug, you have to get blood drawn...which could take hours...after such time...the drug in question can be out of the person's system. New laws need to be created whereby someone who refuses a breathalyzer can have their blood drawn immediately.

Additionally, the current laws in existence with respect to the welfare of children need to be revisted and looked at so that users of (the now legal)drugs are held responsible to a standard of care.
and I'm sure there are a lot more laws that really need a once over to make sure there are no loopholes created.

so like I said...NO, at least until all other laws are also amended, to minimize the potential harm that will come from legalization




So cops are going to carry needles now? That's the last thing I want, some donkey cop sticking me with a 'clean' needle. Not to mention the lack ofsterility at a DUI checkpoint.
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

yeah....like DUI checkpoints.
being able to jail and book ppl under the influence for DUI
being able to seize cars (eg NYC) for ppl driving under the influence.
being able to sentence those with multiple DUIs with harsher penalties
being able to revoke the driving privileges of people with multiple DUIs

so yeah..... those things.
dont see what this has to do with legalizing drugs

dui's are already illegal regardless of the legality of the substance involved....sounds like your problem is with lax dui laws, not drug legalization.
and that was my original reply..
no.
at least not without other laws to curb the natural byproduct of harm done to other people by those under the influence
exactly.....and there are, in fact, laws already in place that deal with this issue, right?
no. there are not.

especially with respect to detection.
you can detect someone who is driving drunk with a breathalyzer...but for those who refuse that, or those that are under the influence of another drug, you have to get blood drawn...which could take hours...after such time...the drug in question can be out of the person's system. New laws need to be created whereby someone who refuses a breathalyzer can have their blood drawn immediately.

Additionally, the current laws in existence with respect to the welfare of children need to be revisted and looked at so that users of (the now legal)drugs are held responsible to a standard of care.
and I'm sure there are a lot more laws that really need a once over to make sure there are no loopholes created.

so like I said...NO, at least until all other laws are also amended, to minimize the potential harm that will come from legalization



i'm not aware of any drug that is undetectable after a few hours, are there any?

also, "drugalyzer" technology that detects drug metabolites through a small saliva sample is in place and i believe some countries actually utilizesuch a device in their police force


regardless, i agree with what you're saying, but i disagree with your relation of drug legality with it.

these measures should be in place regardless of which drugs are legal or not. people are going to use them no matter what the laws state.

to argue that we should not legalize them until these measures are in place is to act as though drug use would not be a problem until made legal. people aredriving, parenting, etc. under the influence of illegal drugs every day. the dangers of these actions do not suddenly change or worsen if these drugs are madelegal. it makes no sense to deny society the benefits of legalization because of this (faulty) implicit underlying assumption
 
wow ive never even heard of drugalyzers. what about trace samples from previous use?
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

^ http://www.oregonlive.com..._idaho_and_texas_ar.html

but if people want legalization of all drugs... I'd want cops to be able to draw blood on scene or at the police station (within 30min to 1hr)
all it would take is one slip up though. just one case of a cop infecting someone with a dirty needle and then what, all hell would raise.

if there are cops willing to plant people, surely some would knowingly, or even unknowingly infect people and that would just be another problem in and ofitself.
 
Decriminalizing drugs would eliminate the need for violent cartels.

Dudes have Mexico looking worse than Iraq.

Decriminalizing some drugs is a great idea.
 
No, all drugs should not be legalized. I see what Friedman is saying in terms of how drug use is our choice and our responsibility but with legalization comesmore users. If the number of Meth heads, crack heads, and heroine addicts increases in our society, we will not benefit in any way, shape or form.
 
i feel drugs should be legal to a certain extent. if not legal atleast minimize the penalty for possession
 
Black markets are far more dangerous drug addicts.
One only needs to look up how many non drug users die as a result of the black market in drugs.

There is no good reason that drugs should not be legalized. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be regulated if they are legalized.
 
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