Report: Manny, Ortiz tested positive in '03

Originally Posted by KingJay718

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@ Red Sox Nation.
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canseco said today theres a hall of famer in there, who do you think hes referring to? for some reason the guy that comes to mind is ripken idk why just got afeeling
 
dland24 wrote:
^Alright FB. Im wating for a real response from you. You laugh at my comment. Explain the difference then. You have two players (Manny & Papi) win a world series for their team. You have Bonds break the homerun record. People are in an uproar over the record being broken, but winning the world series doesnt seem to have the same impact on people. Why not? Why are people upset over a record more so than winning a championship?
You know the answer to your own question, a large majority of the population hate Bonds because he was a complete douche bag. I am not a Bondshater, I just get a laugh every time a steroids topic is created and you're in it speaking about Bonds, when no one cares about Bonds. There is a WorldSeries winner every year, the home run record is probably the most sacred record in all of sports. A majority of the people would rather see a clean likableplayer ( Hank Aaron) with that record than a cheating douche like Barry.
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Hooray!

I bring this up every time we have a new name leaked, but I've been saying since the steroid talk began that you're favorite player is most likelyjuicing. It's hilarious to see how the tone of the public (NT included) has changed. I've never cared. There was never a reason to. When just abouteveryone is doing it, how is that not a level playing field? The only thing it does is allow you to appreciate the clean players that much more.

Can't wait for the next name
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You know the answer to your own question, a large majority of the population hate Bonds because he was a complete douche bag. I am not a Bonds hater, I just get a laugh every time a steroids topic is created and you're in it speaking about Bonds, when no one cares about Bonds. There is a World Series winner every year, the home run record is probably the most sacred record in all of sports. A majority of the people would rather see a clean likable player ( Hank Aaron) with that record than a cheating douche like Barry.

Agreed. Most sacred record in sports in the old timer's eyes. That's a lofty thing.

Look....Bonds got a ton of heat. A lot of that was cause he was a prick. A lot of that was also cause he got to 73 HRs as well as broke Hank's record. Andthe rest of it was because he lied on the stand (another story we dont need to get into) as well as more so than anyone played the "I have done nothingwrong" card when every person walking this earth knew he did. So he then flips it that it's the medias fault and oh ya he never cheated.

But anyway...other dudes too are getting roasted. I can see how people want to say Bonds got a ton of heat....but if anyone continues to say he was the scapegoat they are going way overboard. McGwire is considered a joke now and was run out of the game, Sosa is in the same boat. Palmeiro is a walking punchline asis Clemens. ARod had ESPN stalking him night and day for 2 full months. Etc.

Papi and Ramirez are now in the same boat. Some people wont care, a ton others will. And neither will be voted to the HOF any time soon (Papi obviously was notguaranteed to make it anyway) after they retire.
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Originally Posted by Freshly Snipes

Originally Posted by NostrandAve68

MLB is a COMPLETE JOKE!!

Its turn into the WWE.... basically watched for entertainment... not because its viewed as a legitimate sport
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You're honestly comparing baseball to the WWE? Wow.
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Maybe it was a harsh comparison but seriously how can the MLB be a legitimate sports league when probably 75% of its superstars are suspected oftaking steroids. Barry Bonds isn't viewed as a legitimate homerun king because of his suspected use so how is it any different for the league as a wholewhen a large percentage are suspected.

I used the WWE as an example because when u go to an event you know the brutality isn't as realistic as it appears, theres storylines and etc thatdeteriates the authenticity but knowing all that you like the entertainment aspect. Its the same with going to an MLB game.... most fans now know that theirfav players are juicing or whatever but they go to be entertained not acknowledging the performance enhancing aspect that they know is prevelant.
 
While this news was a little surprising considering Ortiz's stance on steroids not long ago, I find what Canseco said to be a bigger shocker. "And I'll tell you this, Major League Baseball is going to have a big, big problem on their hands when they find out they have a Hall of Famerwho's used."
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Dude wouldn'tgive a name though.
 
Ya I was thinking Canseco was talking about Rickey Henderson, just bc they were on the same team in Oaktown. who knows though
 
Canseco is probably just talking out of his *+%. Not naming names isn't his style. Dude just wants money and publicity.
 
Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Canseco is probably just talking out of his *+%. Not naming names isn't his style. Dude just wants money and publicity.
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Have you even been following the steroids scandal? Dude wrote an entire book in which he names names and there is a second one on the way. Cansecomight not be liked but he is an opportunist who has been on the money with his steroid assertions. He's probably not naming names so he can use thematerial to sell more copies of his next book.
 
[h2]Faith unrewarded[/h2] [h3]David Ortiz really wanted us to believe he was different from the rest[/h3]
Think for a moment about faith. Not about baseball or the press, about the union or management, the home and away teams, all the stuff that seems so important but in truth really amounts to nothing. Such surface concerns melt away with the years, like snowdrifts in April.
You have to go deeper than that to understand the meaning of the New York Times report that David Ortiz is one of the names who tested positive in the now-infamous 2003 performance-enhancing drug testing.

You have to distill it further down, way down to the bones, to the basics, to the people you've met in this world and all the individual ingredients that comprise the concrete, the foundation -- the conviction in the eyes, the passion of the words, the firmness of the handshakes, all the devices designed to make you vulnerable, to make you believe.

Dig down there, to where it counts. And when you get there, don't think about batting average, or the latest news about who tested positive for what, but about the mentality of the professional athletes who spend so much time and energy constructing an elaborate confidence game.

On Tuesday, May 12, Ortiz called me at my home, wounded that so many fans believed his early-season struggles were proof that in an age of tougher drug testing, Ortiz was no longer using performance-enhancing drugs. He called to fight for his reputation and his accomplishments, to preserve the outsized legend of Big Papi. His former companero, Manny Ramirez, had just been hit with a 50-game suspension for testing positive for steroids, and all of it -- the magical rise of 2003, the Red Sox's championship titles of 2004 and 2007 -- was in jeopardy of losing its power, transformed by the taint afflicting the entire industry.

Ortiz rightly recognized the moment in a time as pivotal to how the public viewed him.

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In 2003, his first season in Boston, David Ortiz established career highs in home runs (31) and RBIs (101).
"Do you know how many times I've been drug-tested since 2004? About 20," Ortiz told me that day. "You've got the biggest guys in the game getting caught with this stuff, and that's why they don't think you can have mechanical problems or you can not have your mind in the wrong place or have injuries. It's all steroids. That's why I don't talk about it. When I get turned around, people are going to say, 'Oh, he's back on it.'
"I said it a long time ago. I said if you want to get this stuff out of the game, don't do random tests -- test every player. Don't come in once and test two or three guys. Test everybody, in season and out of season. And if you still use and you get caught, then you should be suspended for the whole year. I said that a long time ago, and nobody listened.

"I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to keep working out, stay on my program, and if I don't get out of it, I'm done. God will be telling me that I'm done."

During that hour and 10 minutes, he was talking to me, certainly -- but he really was talking to you, to the public. He was pleading to be heard, to be believed that he was different from the rest, different from the A-Rods and Clemenses, the Bondses, McGwires and the Palmeiros. He was positioning himself as the one you could absolutely trust. He understood the true cost of the steroids era was not the cacophony of the moment, but the stuff that lives in the bones -- trust, honesty, integrity. He wanted you to know that he understood, that his concerns, at the level where it counted the most, were the same as yours.

"I know what it is for my son to have Big Papi as a father," he told me that day. "There are a lot of people who do great things for him because he's my son. His life is going to be easier because he's the son of Big Papi.

"And that is the biggest reason why I have never used steroids. Because then he would have to go to school and have to listen to all the kids say that his dad is dirty, a cheater, and everything for him would be taken away from him and he would be ruined. I make sure I don't do those things, for him."

This is what it means to be taken, to be lied to for money. It is not the first time. A player testing positive for anabolic steroids is about as routine these days as a ground ball to short.

The surprise isn't in the revelation but in the construction of the mythology. Ortiz made these statements to appeal not to the goodness in me, but to the faith in you, to keep you believing.

Maybe there is an explanation to all this and Ortiz will miraculously be different, as he has tried to make us believe. As of today, he sounds like all the rest, indignant until exposed, annoyed and silent thereafter. He did not speak on the subject before Thursday's afternoon finale of Boston's series against Oakland. After the game, in which he hit a go-ahead, three-run homer in the seventh of an 8-5 win, Ortiz issued a statement.

"Today I was informed by a reporter that I was on the 2003 list of MLB players to test positive for performance-enhancing substances. This happened right before our game, and the news blindsided me.

"I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive.

"Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me -- I will not hide and I will not make excuses."

Maybe it was all a sneaky lawyer's trick. If you thread and parse Ortiz's statements carefully enough, maybe he had been setting the stage for his plausible deniability all along. He always has made the clear distinction between the Wild West days of prepunitive drug testing and today's attempts at reform. And there was the spring training statement a few years ago when he pre-emptively said he may have ingested something in a protein shake that would trigger a positive test. Even his quote to me in May needs to be read carefully -- "You know how many times I've been tested since 2004?". Maybe in his own way, he had been preparing his legions for this day.

But these are semantic arguments at best, otherwise Ortiz would have taken the true crusader's step -- the step no active ballplayer has taken to date -- and long ago admitted use of anabolic substances because they were not banned by baseball. That wasn't what happened. Ortiz instead positioned himself not only as the clean fuel in a polluted world but also as part of the solution, to make baseball green again. Barring a spectacular, unprecedented exoneration, Ortiz will have lost the bank of goodwill and trust he spent years accruing. At least he has plenty of company.


Man...I'm just really disappointed right now.
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Not at all surprised, but still.
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