Report: Manny, Ortiz tested positive in '03

[q46tothee]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Q46totheE

IncredibleEv wrote:

---

didnt Ortiz publicly speak out against steroid users at one point?

im a yankee fan and I agree yankee fans should shut up, but there is totally something satisfying about the fact. its not like Jeter, O'Neill, Bernie have been caught...feel me (Knoblauch dont count in this case)

I think he did when Manny was initially caught a few months back...

oh an FYI: They ALL should be in the hall of fame.

I can't agree with this until ALL the names come out of people who have failed tests over the years....if guys like Griffey, Thomas, Thome, etc have remained clean then it's not fair to them or others who have played the game the right way and not cut corners by using PED's. This is why I'm interested in seeing what names are on the list. Get them all out there and get this over and done with...


This assumes that steroids can take someone who isn't a hall of famer and make him one, I don't think that is the case.

Sure it's unfair but that's what baseball is, an unfair game cheating is encouraged, it's a culture that defines the sport, the whole game revolves around cheating, there are tons of people in the hall who cheated in one way or another.

Plus baseball HOF shouldn't be about moralizing it should be about documenting the history of the game and for better or worse the steroid era is a part of this, put it on the plack if it helps you sleep at night, but your hall of fame can't be taken seriously if Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, and Manny Ramirez are not in it.


I hear what you're saying, but I think a lot of the writers would have a hard time with this rationale no matter how much you may thinkcheating is part of the baseball culture. For all the reasons why they are against McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc and their HOF potential, the same criteria willprobably be used when the likes of A-Rod, Manny, etc are up for HOF enshrinement.

And, if Papi did start using in 2003, he is one of the guys who wasn't on the track for the HOF, who is now (before the news broke) an essential lock. It's not OK IMO for run-of-the-mill type guys to CHEAT their way into baseball immortality. This is why I think the entire list should be made public. You can weed out the guys who cheated in comparison to those who have played right. You can't lump Pete Rose in this group because for all we know hewasn't using any PED's...of course he had his other issues, but that's another debate.

 

[onewearz]

not surprised at all. sucks cause i like manny, always have. ortiz isn't a hall of famer anyway so him being outed means nothing to me .

the whole era is tainted, sucks because u can't look at some of those historical season realistically and what sucks worse is those hr records will neverbe broken. whos hittin 74 ? or having 3 seasons of 60 or more hr's ?


sucks ...........

 

[JD617]

didnt Ortiz publicly speak out against steroid users at one point?
Yeah, he said this:

I think you clean up the game by the testing," Ortiz said. "I test you, you test positive, you're going to be out. Serious. I know that if I test positive for using any kind of substance, I know that I'm going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans, and everybody. I don't want to be facing that situation, so what I will do, I won't use.
I mean, after what Sosa did (saying many times that he would be first in line to get tested and then flipping out when Rick Reilly took him up onit) and what Raffy did during the Congressional hearings, I didn't believe a word of that mess anyway.

 

[itsaNYthing]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by LESGodSonC0

That's what I am saying. Yankees still lay claim to the biggest choke job in all of sports history

That man in your avy...his name will leak sooner or later.

Apparently you missed the interview with Bud Selig before the All-Star game, Albert is clean according to Bud. He says Albert has never tested positive for anything. Now I am not saying that he never used anything, but his name will never leak from a positive tested report. Stay salty my friend.


Like the rest of these players have ever admitted or test to anything positive before?

Stay butt hurt my friend. You are mighty confident in something that is a bigquestion mark.

 

[celtixhalfshell]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

2004 ALCS*

the whole alcs was on juice my dude

it was evened out

 

[DeadsetAce]

Manny being on that list is heart breaking, no penny. But I guess after getting busted this year it was almost expected.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Q46totheE

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Q46totheE

IncredibleEv wrote:

---

didnt Ortiz publicly speak out against steroid users at one point?

im a yankee fan and I agree yankee fans should shut up, but there is totally something satisfying about the fact. its not like Jeter, O'Neill, Bernie have been caught...feel me (Knoblauch dont count in this case)

I think he did when Manny was initially caught a few months back...

oh an FYI: They ALL should be in the hall of fame.

I can't agree with this until ALL the names come out of people who have failed tests over the years....if guys like Griffey, Thomas, Thome, etc have remained clean then it's not fair to them or others who have played the game the right way and not cut corners by using PED's. This is why I'm interested in seeing what names are on the list. Get them all out there and get this over and done with...

This assumes that steroids can take someone who isn't a hall of famer and make him one, I don't think that is the case.

Sure it's unfair but that's what baseball is, an unfair game cheating is encouraged, it's a culture that defines the sport, the whole game revolves around cheating, there are tons of people in the hall who cheated in one way or another.

Plus baseball HOF shouldn't be about moralizing it should be about documenting the history of the game and for better or worse the steroid era is a part of this, put it on the plack if it helps you sleep at night, but your hall of fame can't be taken seriously if Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, and Manny Ramirez are not in it.


I hear what you're saying, but I think a lot of the writers would have a hard time with this rationale no matter how much you may think cheating is part of the baseball culture. For all the reasons why they are against McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc and their HOF potential, the same criteria will probably be used when the likes of A-Rod, Manny, etc are up for HOF enshrinement.

And, if Papi did start using in 2003, he is one of the guys who wasn't on the track for the HOF, who is now (before the news broke) an essential lock. It's not OK IMO for run-of-the-mill type guys to CHEAT their way into baseball immortality. This is why I think the entire list should be made public. You can weed out the guys who cheated in comparison to those who have played right. You can't lump Pete Rose in this group because for all we know he wasn't using any PED's...of course he had his other issues, but that's another debate.


Bill James had an amazing essay about this, they will all get in, because once you let one in (and trust me they will let one in) then rest themwill come flooding in and eventually as steroids become more sophisticated and safer they will eventually become legal and used by the general public once thathappens the stigma of steroids would be gone.

http://www.actapublicatio...ownandthe%27Roids_F2.pdf

 

[incredibleev]

and Ortiz was NOT a lock even if he never got caught for roids, hasn't done it for long enough

 

[bgetsbusy]

My barber has been predicting this for years

 

[gunna get it]

@ THE MITCHELLREPORT...

what a crock a %@@% ...

 

[ooiron manoo]

Originally Posted by bgetsbusy

My barber has been predicting this for years

Besides cutting hair, barbers have nothing better to do than to make "predictions".

 

[basketballsavant]

The list needs to (and will be imo) released/leaked just so this does not continue for the rest of the season. Can you imagine some big names being leakedduring the world series and what a distraction that would be?

 

[dacomeup]

They all def should be in the hall of fame. I wish Hank Aaron could have his HR record back though. I know that those statements are completely contradictingeach other, but that's how I feel.

 

[dmxgod]

Although i wanna say i was shocked when i just read this..i'm not..Manny was on the list in my mind as soon as he was suspended for 50 games..and ididn't wanna believe David Ortiz was on them at one point..but he is now..i wish they would just release the list already..

Hopefully Derek Jeter is on it

 

[lb510]

What can I say

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by IncredibleEv

and Ortiz was NOT a lock even if he never got caught for roids, hasn't done it for long enough

Oh, I definitely don't think he was a Hall of Famer even before this news broke. He was an elite player for only 4 and a half years. Plus as a DH itwould've been a lot harder anyway.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

The only player that could break my heart by being on the list is Derek Jeter.

 

[inine5]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

2004 ALCS*

* our steroids > your steroids so you can kiss my a.....

 

[bijald0331]

The only people that will truly shock me is Ken Griffey Jr. and Greg Maddux. Anyone else, I expect it.

 

[akajae]

smh bums

 

[lb510]

JUST COME OUT WITH THE WHOLE LIST ALREADY

 

[maxelite]

Steroids = best thing that happened to baseball

 

[q46tothee]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Q46totheE

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Q46totheE

IncredibleEv wrote:

---

didnt Ortiz publicly speak out against steroid users at one point?

im a yankee fan and I agree yankee fans should shut up, but there is totally something satisfying about the fact. its not like Jeter, O'Neill, Bernie have been caught...feel me (Knoblauch dont count in this case)

I think he did when Manny was initially caught a few months back...

oh an FYI: They ALL should be in the hall of fame.

I can't agree with this until ALL the names come out of people who have failed tests over the years....if guys like Griffey, Thomas, Thome, etc have remained clean then it's not fair to them or others who have played the game the right way and not cut corners by using PED's. This is why I'm interested in seeing what names are on the list. Get them all out there and get this over and done with...

This assumes that steroids can take someone who isn't a hall of famer and make him one, I don't think that is the case.

Sure it's unfair but that's what baseball is, an unfair game cheating is encouraged, it's a culture that defines the sport, the whole game revolves around cheating, there are tons of people in the hall who cheated in one way or another.

Plus baseball HOF shouldn't be about moralizing it should be about documenting the history of the game and for better or worse the steroid era is a part of this, put it on the plack if it helps you sleep at night, but your hall of fame can't be taken seriously if Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, and Manny Ramirez are not in it.

I hear what you're saying, but I think a lot of the writers would have a hard time with this rationale no matter how much you may think cheating is part of the baseball culture. For all the reasons why they are against McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc and their HOF potential, the same criteria will probably be used when the likes of A-Rod, Manny, etc are up for HOF enshrinement.

And, if Papi did start using in 2003, he is one of the guys who wasn't on the track for the HOF, who is now (before the news broke) an essential lock. It's not OK IMO for run-of-the-mill type guys to CHEAT their way into baseball immortality. This is why I think the entire list should be made public. You can weed out the guys who cheated in comparison to those who have played right. You can't lump Pete Rose in this group because for all we know he wasn't using any PED's...of course he had his other issues, but that's another debate.


Bill James had an amazing essay about this, they will all get in, because once you let one in (and trust me they will let one in) then rest them will come flooding in and eventually as steroids become more sophisticated and safer they will eventually become legal and used by the general public once that happens the stigma of steroids would be gone.

http://www.actapublicatio...ownandthe%27Roids_F2.pdf




Isn't Bill James EMPLOYED by the Red Sox?

I didn't read it yet, but I'd like to see an essay or article written on HOF merits by someone who is not only respected, but also not affiliated withany MLB teams.

 

[fede dpt]

Dan Shaughnessy was just one ESPN and he sounded distraught and terribly hurt.

"This changes the universe in Boston, our fans are going to be hurt."

 

[inine5]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Dan Shaughnessy was just one ESPN and he sounded distraught and terribly hurt.

"This changes the universe in Boston, our fans are going to be hurt."

maybe the older folks.... younger people really don;t care. everybody thinks everyone else was doing it so it was an even playing fieldanyways.....