Report: Malaysia Airlines flight SHOT DOWN in Ukraine

ccookielover49 said:
Its just mind boggling how it was another Malaysian airline. Out of all the planes in the sky. Could it have been a coincidence or something fishy?

Also can the dudes who know about the technology being used expand on the capabilities one needs to use one of these things.

How does one differentiate between a commercial jet and say a military plane? Or are they just 2 blips on the radar
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[COLOR=#red]In order to be able to operate a SAM system takes a decent amount of training. I say system because it's more than just the actual missile itself of course. There are usually more than one radar components in the system...one radar for target acquisition which basically picks up and the target, one for tracking the target, and another for guidance...there can also be an Early Warning radar component depending on the system. All of those work in concert with each other and that's where the specialized training comes in. One system that they use for identification is called IFF (Identification Friend of Foe) and it can be used to determine whether the aircraft being tracked is friendly or not. This system prevents friendly fire for the most part but like anything else it's not foolproof.

Ok let's step away from the hardware and specifications and look at who could have done this...It would have to be a trained crew...was this crew Russian?? Because a bunch of separatist thugs cannot operate this stuff it's too complicated. If we were talking about shoulder-launched ManPortableDefense (MANPADS) missiles like Stingers some rebels could possibly have used it since it's less complicated, but they can't intercept at 33k feet. All this to say there is an official body behind this...very doubtful its Ukraine, all fingers are pointing at Russia. Also remember this point...Putin is a hardliner and many believe he'd like to go back to the Cold War days. He was once a high ranking agent in Russia's version of the CIA. I highly doubt we have conflict, but Putin seems to be toeing the line somewhat.[/COLOR]
 
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Malaysia Airlines is responsible for the costs related to the flight despite it being an act of war. Bad year for that company is an understatement.
 
JEWSEEJAY ElderWatsonDiggs thanks for the info. But Elder you're right, these had to be some highly trained dudes with destructive intent. I definitely see more sanctions coming for Russia at the least
 
Rell826 said:
One of the top AIDS researchers in the world was on the flight headed to a conference.
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They were saying something like 80 of the passengers were on their way to the conference yesterday. IDK how much that has changed today.

Those headed to the conference in Melbourne included medical researchers, health workers, and activists. Joep Lange was one of the passengers on board. Lange, a former president of the International AIDS Society, headed the Department of Global Health at the University of Amsterdam. Lange has been involved in HIV research and treatment since 1983. He worked in particular on pivotal trials in antiretroviral therapy and on the prevention of mother-to-child transmission of HIV.
“The cure for AIDS may have been on that plane, we just don’t know,” Trevor Stratton, an HIV/AIDS consultant, told the ABC. “You can’t just help but wonder about the kind of expertise on that plane.”
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A number of passengers aboard the Malaysia Airlines downed in Ukraine were reportedly delegates to an international AIDS conference in Australia and people traveling with them.

According to initial reports, as many as 108 people on board Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, were headed to the 20th International AIDS Conference, due to begin Sunday.
But the exact number of those on board who were attending the conference remains unconfirmed as the airline has yet to release a passenger manifest.
In a statement, the ADIS 2014 organizers said they are “continuing to work with the authorities to clarify how the tragic loss of Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 impacts our conference delegates, our conference partners, and our community as a whole. In recognition of our colleagues’ dedication to the fight against HIV/AIDS, the conference will go ahead as planned and will include opportunities to reflect and remember those we have lost.”
Chris Beyrer, who will take over the presidency of the International AIDS Society at the end of the global conference next week, told the Washington Post Friday that after speaking to authorities he was hopeful that “the actual number is much smaller” than 108.
Beyrer told the Post that it appears that the numbers are “an order of magnitude smaller than what has been reported.”
Joep Lange was one of the passengers killed in the jetliner crash in Ukraine on Thursday, the Kirby Institute confirmed in a statement.
Joep Lange was one of the passengers killed in the jetliner crash in Ukraine on Thursday, the Kirby Institute confirmed in a statement .
youtube.com
Lange, a former president of the International AIDS society, headed the Department of Global Health at the University of Amsterdam.
“Joep had an absolute commitment to HIV treatment and care in Asia and Africa,” Professor David A. Cooper, director of the Kirby Institute, said. “The joy in collaborating with Joep was that he would always bring a fresh view, a unique take on things, and he never accepted that something was impossible to achieve. Our joint work in Bangkok, the HIVNAT centre, will stand as his legacy.”
Boris Dittrich, former Dutch MP and LGBT advocacy director at Human Rights Watch, told BuzzFeed that Lange, who he first met 25 years ago, was key to linking discussions with HIV to human rights and bridging the gap between the European fight against HIV with the developing world.”
In addition to Lange, his partner Jacqueline van Tongeren was also killed in the crash, the statement said.
Lange was one of several HIV/AIDS researchers and activists on board Flight MH17, according to colleagues on Twitter. They were on their way to the AIDS 2014 conference in Australia, which begins on July 20.
Gregg Gonsalves@gregggonsalves Follow
Joep Lange was a leading AIDS researcher and clinician and an activist at heart. Lost today too soon on Malaysian flight 019. RIP

6:13 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Aram Barra@AramBarra Follow
“@martinenserink: Joep Lange, a veteran #HIV/AIDS researcher from the Netherlands, was aboard MH17, en route to #AIDS2014 in Melbourne.”

5:48 PM - 17 Jul 14
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U.S. doctor Seema Yasmin said Lange was an amazing father to his five daughters…
Dr. Seema Yasmin@DoctorYasmin Follow
What a HUGE loss to the world. Just learned that dear friend, amazing father to 5 girls and veteran AIDS researcher Joep Lange was on #MH17

4:16 PM - 17 Jul 14
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And an amazing researcher. “How do we measure how much a person has done for humanity? People like Joep change the course of epidemics.”
Dr. Seema Yasmin@DoctorYasmin Follow
How do we measure how much a person has done for humanity? People like Joep change the course of epidemics.

4:43 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Lange has been involved in HIV research and treatment since 1983. He worked in particular on pivotal trials in antiretroviral therapy and on the prevention of mother-to-child transmission of HIV.

educatie.ntr.nl

accesshiv.org

He was on the board of many HIV-related foundations and was the founder and editor-in-chief of the journal Antiviral Therapy. He also published more than 350 papers in peer-reviewed journals.
From 1992 until 1995, Lange worked globally as a chief of the World Health Organization’s program that worked on AIDS projects. He pushed the program to promote and initiate prevention, diagnosis, and treatment projects throughout the world. His projects continue in many countries, including Argentina, Brazil, Ivory Coast, Mexico, Tanzania, Thailand, Uganda, Uruguay, and Venezuela.
In 1995, Lange returned to his alma mater, the University of Amsterdam, to take up a position as a professor of internal medicine, researching and teaching about viral diseases. In 2007 he was awarded the Eijkman medal for his achievements in tropical medicine and international health.
From 2002 to 2004, he served as the president of the International AIDS Society.
The University of Amsterdam issued a statement on the loss of two of their staff members: Lange and his partner Jacqueline van Tongeren.

Joep was a great source of inspiration for everyone who aimed to contribute to solving the AIDS tragedy in Africa and Asia. He was shocked to see how, from 1996 onwards, expensive HIV therapies became available to patients in rich countries, but not in Africa, and he made it his mission to change this and to put an end to the gross inequality in access to life-saving medication.
The university also mentioned Lange’s close association with his partner Jacqueline.
The university also mentioned Lange's close association with his partner Jacqueline.
aighd.org
One of the milestones in his career was undoubtedly his presidency of the International AIDS Society. During this period in particular, he enjoyed the support of Jacqueline van Tongeren, who helped him organise a wide range of initiatives. Over the past few years Jacqueline served as head of Communications at the AIGHD. Thanks to her previous experience as an HIV-AIDS nurse, she was extremely familiar with the issues concerned. Over time, the bonds between Joep and Jacqueline developed far beyond those of a relationship between colleagues.
“The cure for AIDS may have been on that plane, we just don’t know,” Trevor Stratton, an HIV/AIDS consultant told the ABC. “You can’t just help but wonder about the kind of expertise on that plane.”

Melbourne YouthForce@youthAIDS2014 Follow
Our hearts are heavy tonight, thoughts and love to the loved ones of those lost. #youthAIDS2014 #AIDS2014 #MH17

5:17 AM - 18 Jul 14
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Boris Dittrich, an advocacy director with Human Rights Watch, said that these activists were “irreplaceable.” “They worked for decades on the issue of AIDS, bridging the gap on human rights issues… this is just devastating.”

Aram Barra@AramBarra Follow
From tonight's vigil at Victoria Bridge to honor those lost on their way to #AIDS2014 #MH17

7:16 AM - 18 Jul 14
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Glenn Raymond Thomas, a Geneva-based spokesman for the World Health Organization, was also aboard the flight, the WHO confirmed.
Glenn Raymond Thomas, a Geneva-based spokesman for the World Health Organization, was also aboard the flight, the WHO confirmed.
unmultimedia.org
Thomas, 46, who worked for the BBC before moving to Switzerland, specialized in the big infectious diseases – AIDS, TB and malaria.
WHO@WHO Follow
We lost one of our colleagues, Glenn Thomas, on the Malaysian Airlines #MH17 that crashed yesterday. He will be greatly missed #RIPGlennWHO

4:42 AM - 18 Jul 14
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Haileyesus Getahun@haileygetahun Follow
Saddened to learn that my friend and @WHO staff who was traveling to @AIDS_conference to Melbourne was on flight #MH17. RIP #Glenn Thomas

4:42 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Claire Kilpatrick@claireekt Follow
Don't know what to say, devastated with the news of Malaysian airline incident & @WHO DCO colleague Glenn Thomas #condolences #shock

7:05 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Pim de Kuijer, an AIDS activist from the Netherlands who was headed to the conference, was also on board, Aids Fonds confirmed in a statement today.

facebook.com

facebook.com

These are the last photos he posted to his Facebook page, and he wrote: “AIDS ‘14 conference and backpacking in Australia first, then Malaysia revisited. Jumpa lagi!” “Jumpa lagi” is a Malay phrase meaning “So long” or “See you later.”
Simone Filippini@SimoneFilippini Follow
Horrible news: Pim de Kuijer, Stop Aids Now! & former @D66 staff died in Ukraine plane crash on his way to #AIDS2014 confi Melbourne

1:38 AM - 18 Jul 14
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The 32-year-old was a parliamentary lobbyist for Stop AIDS Now! He had traveled extensively through Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Egypt, Ukraine, Russia, and Malaysia, his friend Nabeelah Shabbir wrote in the Guardian.

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facebook.com

facebook.com

Lousewies vd Laan, a human rights advocate who worked with de Kuijer, called him “a brilliant, inspiring and caring activist.”

Lousewies v d Laan@LousewiesvdLaan Follow
Last year probable #MH17 victim @PimdeK and I (here at tunnel museum) helped train democracy activists in Sarajevo.

5:00 PM - 17 Jul 14
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He fought for equality and the right to accessible health care for all.
Lousewies v d Laan@LousewiesvdLaan Follow
#MH17 victim @PimdeK was a brilliant, inspiring and caring activist fighting for equality and helping AIDS victims around the world #tragic

4:33 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Another Aids Fonds member, Martine de Schutter, was also confirmed to be on board the flight.

facebook.com

facebook.com

Martine de Schutter had started a new job managing a program in January of this year called Bridging the Gap, which provides support for sex workers, LGBT people, and people who use drugs.
Prior to that she had worked for 10 years as executive coordinator of AIDS Action Europe, an NGO partnership on HIV and AIDS in Europe and Central Asia. She had been involved with initiatives including the EU HIV/AIDS Civil Society Forum, the HIV/AIDS Clearinghouse, and the successful lobby to get key populations included in the current EU HIV policy.
Loiuse van Deth, director of Stop Aids Now! described Pim de Kuijer and Martine de Schutter as “wonderful and inspiring people.”
Lucie van Mens, a global advocate for female condoms and women’s health, was also reportedly heading to the conference on board flight MH17.
Lucie van Mens, a global advocate for female condoms and women's health, was also reportedly heading to the conference on board flight MH17.
Twitter: @tianjohnson
Lucie van Mens, who worked with the Chicago-based Female Health Company, was involved in HIV/AIDS prevention since 1995. She was a tireless advocate for the development and equal access to female condoms.
Serra Sippel@SerraSippel Follow
Devastated by lives lost on #MH17 & saddened by loss of friend & advocate of women's prevention #femalecondoms Lucie van Mens, RIP #AIDS2014

8:35 AM - 18 Jul 14
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Organizers of the AIDS 2014 conference issued a statement on the tragedy:

The International AIDS Society (IAS) today expresses its sincere sadness at receiving news that a number of colleagues and friends en route to attend the 20th International AIDS Conference taking place in Melbourne, Australia, were on board the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight that has crashed over Ukraine earlier today.
At this incredibly sad and sensitive time, the IAS stands with our international family and sends condolences to the loved ones of those who have been lost to this tragedy.
The IAS is hearing unconfirmed reports that some of our friends and colleagues were on board the flight and if that is the case this is a truly sad day.
The IAS has also heard reports that among the passengers was a former IAS president, Joep Lange, and if that is the case then the HIV/AIDS movement has truly lost a giant.
SameSame.com.au@samesame Follow
We've just heard that flags in Melbourne will be flown at half mast for entire @AIDS_conference in respect to those lost on flight #MH17

12:48 AM - 18 Jul 14
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Paul Kidd@paulkidd Follow
Minute's silence observed at #AIDS2014 Hepatitis Satellite for victims of #MH17. Audible shock as news read out. Palpable sadness in the rm.

8:25 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Devastated friends and colleagues, including U.N. AIDS Executive Director Michael Sidibé, tweeted about the loss.
Michel Sidibé@MichelSidibe Follow
My thoughts & prayers to families of those tragically lost on flight #MH17. Many passengers were enroute to #AIDS2014 here in #Melbourne.

7:17 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Kelly Thompson@hngryhrt Follow
Compounded tragedy of #MH17 - news that members of the #HIV movement coming to @AIDS_conference were on the flight #insolidarity

6:02 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Aram Barra@AramBarra Follow
Jacqueline van Tongeren from AMC and Lucie van Mens from the Female Health Company were also on the plane. #MH17 #AIDS2014

6:16 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Aram Barra@AramBarra Follow
Pim de Kuijer (Stop Aids now) and Martine de Schutter (Aids fonds) were also on the plane. #AIDS2014 #MH17

5:50 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Australia’s foreign minister told reporters Flight MH17 had been traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur and Perth, Australia, with connecting flights to Melbourne where the conference is being held.
Patrick Condren@PatrickCondren Follow
Foreign Minister @JulieBishopMP: MH 17 was travelling Amsterdam-KL-Perth. Connecting flights to Melb @NewsTalk4BC

7:54 PM - 17 Jul 14
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City of Melbourne@cityofmelbourne Follow
Our thoughts are with all the victims and families of those on board #MH17, including those reportedly heading to Melbourne for #AIDS2014.

7:18 PM - 17 Jul 14
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Former U.S. President Bill Clinton and Virgin founder Richard Branson are among the prominent speakers at the AIDS 2014 conference.
Paul Kidd@paulkidd Follow
#AIDS2014 conference will be a sad place as news comes in of lost researchers, advocates, PLHIV on #MH17.

7:12 PM - 17 Jul 14
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[COLOR=#red]I wrote the below quote earlier in here[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#red]It would have to be a trained crew...was this crew Russian?? Because a bunch of separatist thugs cannot operate this stuff it's too complicated....All this to say there is an official body behind this...very doubtful its Ukraine, all fingers are pointing at Russia. Also remember this point...Putin is a hardliner and many believe he'd like to go back to the Cold War days. He was once a high ranking agent in Russia's version of the CIA. I highly doubt we have conflict, but Putin seems to be toeing the line somewhat[/COLOR].
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[COLOR=#red]Then just now I read this from the BBC.com[/COLOR]

Earlier at the UN, US envoy Samantha Power said the US could not rule out that Russians had helped the separatists fire the missile.

Ms Power added: "President Putin has committed on several occasions to working towards dialogue and peace, and every single time he has broken that commitment.
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[COLOR=#red]Guess I didn't lose my analyst skills after all. Haven't worked in the field since 2012. [/COLOR]
 
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"people" are shooting down commercial jets... I'm surprised more people aren't ticked off about this.
You have pictures of abused dogs or abused elephants in Indonesia and the world is infuriated.
You shoot down an airplane, people are like, "eh, just impose sanctions"

I believe Obama is at a fundraiser right now. :smh:
An American passenger died... I'd be absolutely insane pissed if that was my family member.
Putin will deny any connection and just blame some rogue faction terrorist group that coincidentally happen to have Russian surface-to-air missiles at their disposal.
 
capricdragon said:
I believe Obama is at a fundraiser right now. :smh:
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:smh: I think the whole world knows that Obama won't do crap other than impose more sanctions. Dude has zero backbone when it comes to foreign policy. From Benghazi, Libya, Iraq, Syria, South Sudan, Gaza, etc... Putin, Assad, Netanyahu, etc... can be as aggressive as they want militarily without being overly concern with a US response.
 
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SunDOOBIE said:
capricdragon said:
I believe Obama is at a fundraiser right now. :smh:
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:smh: I think the whole world knows that Obama won't do crap other than impose more sanctions. Dude has zero backbone when it comes to foreign policy. From Benghazi, Libya, Iraq, Syria, South Sudan, etc... Putin, Assad, Israel, etc... can be as aggressive as they want militarily without being overly concern with a US response.
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lol... what do you suggest he do against Russian assets in Ukraine?
 
In regards to the sanctions, from Chappelle show:

You know what you should do? You should sanction me. Sanction me with your army. Oh! wait a minute! You don't have an army! So I guess that means you need to shut the **** up! That's what would I do if I don't have an army, I would shut the **** up.
 
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