QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[a55a5in11]

The only knock you guys have on Mariota is that he throws to open receivers like what's the dude supposed to do? He also throws tight passes when needed

 

[CP1708]

Steve Palazzolo is a game-grader for the football analytics site Pro Football Focus, which has begun to study college tape now. He watched most of Mariota’s games this season. Palazzolo said: “The NFL will fall in love with his tools. Nice touch. Good arm. Uses his running as a complement. But he’s a tough evaluation out of that offense, partly because he doesn’t have to make the kind of tight-window throws he’ll have to make in the NFL; his receivers at Oregon were so open. He’s still pretty quick to take off out of the pocket, so it could be a tough transition.”

Tony Dungy is not among that group of scouts or executives, because he doesn’t work in the league anymore. But he is uniquely qualified to judge Mariota, because he attended many of his games in 2012 and 2013, when Dungy’s son Eric was a reserve wide receiver on the Oregon roster. Dungy’s point to me was that, while many quarterbacks in college football today are athletes who play quarterback, Mariota is a complete quarterback who can fit in any system.

“He’s a quarterback who’s a great athlete,” Dungy said Sunday. “He will have no problem being a pocket quarterback. He’s got a good arm. He can make the downfield throws, and he has good touch. I am on record as saying he’ll be a great quarterback in the NFL.”

Dungy also called Aaron Murray the best QB in last year's class. So not sure on this one. :\

One general manager who scouted college quarterbacks this fall said: “He has the intelligence you want in a quarterback, and the work ethic. When he came back to school this year, it was basically Heisman or bust, and it was Final Four [the new college playoff system] or bust. He accomplished both. You need to give him time to breathe, time to adjust, to the pro game. You don’t want him to be the kind of guy you’re penciling in to start opening day, because he’s not playing in a classic pro-style offense in college, and you don’t want him to come in relying all on his athleticism. I also think he evolved this year as a passer. He stayed in the pocket longer. When I watch now, I see a quarterback going through his progressions more. Less impulsive.”

This GM advanced the below-Luck, above-Griffin measurement of Mariota. One other personnel director, on a team that also would be in the market for a quarterback next offseason, said Mariota would be a much safer pick that Griffin, because Mariota played better from the pocket in 2014 than Griffin ever did at Baylor.

Mariota said he spent time in the preseason this year, and after some practices, taking snaps under center. At Oregon, as well as at many colleges now, quarterbacks run almost exclusively out of the shotgun, so his coaches thought he should get more used to the form of snap-delivery that will be common to his game at the next level. I’ve always found it’s not the act of taking the snap from center that is the big adjustment for college quarterbacks in the NFL. It’s the fact that in the shotgun, a quarterback can have a clearer view of what the defense is doing while he’s looking over the secondary after taking the snap; taking snaps the regular way, a quarterback doesn’t always get the clearest look at the defense, because he’s moving back three or five or seven steps with a pass-rush bearing down.

Mariota to Vincent Jackson (though he’ll be 32 next year) and Mike Evans and Austin Seferian-Jenkins. Not a bad group of targets to start with—if the Bucs cooperate, and lose to the Packers and Saints in the last two weeks of the season. That would ensure Tampa Bay having the top pick next spring.

The best comparison is with Colin Kaepernick of the 49ers. Taken 36th in the 2011 draft, Kaepernick measured 6-5 and 233 pounds at the combine, where he ran 4.53. Similar to Mariota’s role in Oregon’s spread, Kaepernick operated a cutting-edge scheme (Chris Ault’s pistol at Nevada) that’s designed to limit the quarterback’s reads on each play.

He’s not perfect, however. Mariota doesn’t have great anticipation on his throws, and he’s not smooth if his primary receiver is covered. Against the Spartans, he missed a wide-open receiver, Keanon Lowe, in the flat for a touchdown with 3:52 remaining in the first quarter because he didn’t anticipate how the coverage would react to the routes.

And for all his accuracy, he hasn’t yet been asked to throw the top-level NFL routes—the skinny post (between two closing defenders in the middle of the field) and the dig, in which a receiver runs 15 to 20 yards down the field and cuts in front of a hard-charging cornerback. The Ducks don’t even practice those routes in warmups because they’re so foreign to the scheme. Mariota will also have to learn to “throw receivers open” against tight coverage, which is to say he’ll have to put the ball in places that only the receivers can get to—the tight back-shoulder throw being one example. That’s a must in the NFL, but it can be learned. So if Mariota is drafted by, say, the Rams, Raiders, Texans, Titans or Cowboys, which use more of a pro-style system, he’s going to need some retraining.

Peter King, Bedard articles from SI.

The one GM that mentioned the Heisman and Final Four sounds like a Parcells guy. Parcells believed QB's needed to have X amount of wins in college, be a graduate, and at least 3 year starter for him to consider.

Parcells also drafted Chad Henne and Pat White while passing on Matt Ryan, so..... *shrugs*

 

[dmxfury]

Inexact science to say the least

 

[Chester McFloppy]

So MM8 isn't Andrew Luck? Well no ****, not many people are.

 

[CP1708]

Everyone is below Luck, you know that.

I'm more wondering, why the need/fit for Tampa, and big catch radius targets like Jax, Evans, ASJ, if he's as accurate as they say?

I know the kid is good, I just don't know if he'll adjust in the pros, or more specifically, will they adjust to him?

Just now taking snaps under center doesn't feel real good. That would scare me. And his hand size. Because he's fumbled a lot in college, is that a security thing he can clean up quick, or hand size?

And I don't mean that like that guy last year that said Teddy's hands were too small, and Bortles were just fine and they were the same size.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

It's a security thing -- the way he carries the ball. That can def. be cleaned up.

TB is probably the best place for him to learn the pro game. They have the weapons and he'll be able to play in an incredibly weak division.

As far as under center goes, Phil Rivers took something like 92% of his snaps from shotgun last year (only 50 snaps under center). Peyton took 581 snaps out of it compared to 96 snaps under center. Aaron Rodgers only took 69 snaps under center.

Carson Palmer led the league with 42% of dropbacks from under center. It's a shotgun league anymore, but I agree that he'll need to adjust his game for it.

Honestly... if you're TB, what would you do? Take Leonard Williams and hope that your defense can get you 8 wins? Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB? Or do you take the risk and hope that MM8 is your guy for the next 10 years?

 

[CP1708]

I think Tampa takes him, no doubt. They have to.

Holy ****, I just looked at their staff, Jeff Tedford is their OC? That's verrrrrrry interesting.

 

[dland24]

Honestly... if you're TB, what would you do? Take Leonard Williams and hope that your defense can get you 8 wins? Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB? Or do you take the risk and hope that MM8 is your guy for the next 10 years?

I will be honest, I havent watched enough to have an opinion on whether Mariota will be good longterm or not......

But to answer your question, yes I take Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB.  Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans and Amari Cooper for the next couple seasons and Evans and Cooper longterm?  Yeah if I was a Bucs fan.....sign me up for that.

 

[CP1708]

Honestly... if you're TB, what would you do? Take Leonard Williams and hope that your defense can get you 8 wins? Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB? Or do you take the risk and hope that MM8 is your guy for the next 10 years?

I will be honest, I havent watched enough to have an opinion on whether Mariota will be good longterm or not......

But to answer your question, yes I take Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB.  Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans and Amari Cooper for the next couple seasons and Evans and Cooper longterm?  Yeah if I was a Bucs fan.....sign me up for that.

Detroit Lion fans would like a moment....

 

[dland24]

^I just dont see the Bucs being good next year regardless.....so I would probably try to find a QB elsewhere or the following draft.....especially if they are not completely sold on MM.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Honestly... if you're TB, what would you do? Take Leonard Williams and hope that your defense can get you 8 wins? Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB? Or do you take the risk and hope that MM8 is your guy for the next 10 years?

I will be honest, I havent watched enough to have an opinion on whether Mariota will be good longterm or not......

But to answer your question, yes I take Amari Cooper with Josh McCown still at QB.  Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans and Amari Cooper for the next couple seasons and Evans and Cooper longterm?  Yeah if I was a Bucs fan.....sign me up for that.

Bro, Josh McCown is a backup QB. Simple as that. He's a Mark Sanchez -- a guy that will come in, possibly win you 5 or 6 games, and that's it.

Look at all of the weapons in Philly and how bad that offense looks with a mediocre QB. Look at those Lions teams a few years back. The Colts team that, when they had to start Curtis Painter, went from 12 wins to 12 losses.

A QB is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more important than you think. Sometimes you've got to gamble and hope for the best. Not everyone can get lucky with one of those 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th round QB studs.

 

[CP1708]

I get what you are saying, but you can't really build WR first, then fill in the blanks later. Too heavy on one spot, weakens other spots.

If they pass on MM, that alone will tell us something, but doesn't mean they will be right either.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

The thought of MM8 on the Titans, ********, or Jets makes me want to cry.

 

[CP1708]

I want him on the Rams, but with a diff OC.

 

[DeadsetAce]

praying the jets don't do it.

literally anywhere but NY, please

 

[dland24]

Fellas.....I think you guys are misinterpreting what I am saying....or that I am not articulating myself very well.

I am not trying to diminish the importance of a quarterback.  I understand how important a QB is, and think it is probably the most important position in all of sports.  I get it.  Also, I am not trying to say that McCown is good, decent, whatever.  I know he is not good. 

I just was merely trying to say that if I was the Bucs front office, and I had reservations AT ALL about Mariota, that I would go with:

a) draft Cooper

b) roll with McCown for one more  year (not because I think he is good, but because I understand that my team is going to suck again anyways)

c) draft a QB in the 2nd round or the following year

OR

instead of B and C, I would see if there is a free agent QB to sign that could replace McCown immediately.

I am not trying to diminish the importance of a QB. 

 

[CP1708]

I hear ya.

They could try to attract a FA QB with that WR core, if they weren't 100% sold on MM. I could see something like that.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

My biggest concern is always these QBs that don't come from pro style offenses.

RG3 was getting killed and can't read a defense to save his life.

Kap ran that pistol and now look, has no touch and can't read a defense either.

MM8 is a much better pocket passer than either of those guys. Both Bob and Kaep are one-read-then-run guys.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

MM8 is a much better pocket passer than either of those guys. Both Bob and Kaep are one-read-then-run guys.

Yes but MM8 weapons are running wide open down the field cause of his style of offense.

Still, he's shown the ability to stand in the pocket, go through progressions, and hit the throws (regardless if the guys are running wide open). That's more than I can say about Kaep, esp. college Kaep.

 

[statis22]

A strong defense can help out any young QB learning on the fly.

If TB isn't sold on Mariota then they shouldn't force it.

 

[MambaMentality824]

I want him on the Rams, but with a diff OC.

I want him on the Eagles

Not a shot in hell, but no doubt in my mind Chip would make dude into a star.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

MM8 going to be another Oregon Duck NFL Bust

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Joey Harrington was ok...




Lulz

 

[MON5T3R]

I hear ya.

They could try to attract a FA QB with that WR core, if they weren't 100% sold on MM. I could see something like that.

Cutler reunited with Lovie

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Joey Harrington was ok...




Lulz

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