- Feb 22, 2007
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QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
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- Feb 22, 2007
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Doyel: This one's on Andrew Luck
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...-when-their-best-player-their-worst/90495606/
View media item 2173023
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...-when-their-best-player-their-worst/90495606/
DENVER – This loss was going to happen, but not like this. Not with the Indianapolis Colts’ decimated defense playing well and their offensive line playing well enough and their feel-good coach walking into his postgame news conference and dropping the hammer on one player. This was Chuck Pagano finally speaking the truth, finally coming as close as he ever has or ever will to pinning a loss on one player.
But when that player is quarterback Andrew Luck, and he plays as poorly as he did in this 34-20 loss Sunday to the Denver Broncos, well, what can Pagano do? Hide from it? Pretend it didn’t happen? Over and over he chipped away at Luck’s mistakes until the end of his uncharacteristically honest appraisal, when I asked him about Luck’s accuracy issues. This is what Pagano said:
“I think we all saw the same thing.”
And we did. Well, most of us did. But here’s where this strange day gets even stranger.
Luck didn’t see it like that.
Not exactly. Luck didn’t think he played well, don’t misunderstand, but he wasn’t willing to shoulder all the blame for his poor performance. And this was exceptionally poor. He wasn’t good for three quarters – he was 10-of-26 at one point – and in the fourth quarter he completely self-destructed. He threw an interception that was returned for a touchdown, then lost a fumble that was returned for another touchdown.
“You can’t turn the ball over,” Pagano said. “You can’t have a pick-six and strip fumbles returned for touchdowns. It’s too hard to overcome.”
Overall Luck was 21-of-40 for 197 yards, one touchdown and two turnovers. His quarterback rating was 64.3, well below his career rating of 85.7. He didn’t think he was good. Believe that. Asked right away how he played, Luck told the truth:
“Not good enough to win, obviously,” he said. “Need to be sharper to beat a team like that.”
But as the questioning continued, Luck started deflecting some blame. That’s how it sounded to me, anyway. I’ll show you what he said here in a minute. You decide. But first, here’s what Luck said last week after the Colts’ 39-35 loss to Detroit, after throwing for 385 yards and four touchdowns and no interceptions in one of the finest games of his career:
“Disappointed in myself for being part of a slow start,” he said, which was vintage Luck.
After this loss, vintage Luck was replaced by a Luck who sounded disappointed in his receivers. For starters, that pick-six early in the fourth quarter when he tried to hit Phillip Dorsett downfield. Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib stepped in front of the pass at the 46 and weaved his way down the sideline for a touchdown that gave Denver a 23-13 lead.
“He made a good play,” Luck said of Talib. “He obviously got to the ball before our guy did.”
Luck was accurate to his running backs and tight ends – 14-of-18 for 110 yards – but he wasn’t on the same page with his three receivers. He completed just 6-of-19 passes to Dorsett, T.Y. Hilton and Donte Moncrief.
Asked about the difficulties making plays downfield, Luck suggested two issues:
“Guys winning their matchups, and also schemes,” he said. “You know, trying to make sure we have help on certain plays.”
Guys winning their matchups …
Schematic breakdowns will happen against the Broncos. They have the biggest game-wrecker in the NFL, outside linebacker Von Miller, along with Pro Bowler DeMarcus Ware. That duo combined for 3½ sacks and hit Luck four times overall, including one play where they held a staff meeting at Luck’s sternum.
But guys winning their matchups downfield? That’s uncharacteristic of Andrew Luck to suggest the problem was anything but Andrew Luck.
This whole day was odd. A Colts defense that gave up 37 points at home to the Lions – Detroit also scored on a safety – surrendered barely half that on the road to the Broncos. Denver’s offense scored 19 points overall, and just one touchdown.
Denver’s defense scored two TDs, both on plays that began with the ball in Luck’s hands and ended with the Broncos defense celebrating in the end zone. The second one, the strip-fumble, can’t be blamed entirely on Luck. Von Miller did what Von Miller does, beating right tackle Joe Reitz and separating the ball from Luck. Linebacker Shane Ray returned it 15 yards for a touchdown.
But the first one, the pick-six to Talib? Pagano was clear where that play went wrong.
“I know Andrew would love to have it back,” Pagano said. “We’d all love to have it back, but you have to take care of the ball in that situation.”
Pagano never mentioned the receiver on the play, Dorsett. Never suggested, as Luck had, that it was a catchable pass until Talib “got to the ball before our guy did.”
But let’s not let Dorsett off the hook, either. Recall Luck’s struggles with his top three receivers. That can’t be all Luck. He threw 11 passes to Hilton and completed four. He threw five passes to Dorsett and completed one. Before Moncrief left with an injury, Luck threw three passes his way; Moncrief caught one.
For Hilton, this continued his trend of struggling against elite defenses. The Patriots routinely stymie him. The Broncos have three super corners in Talib, Chris Harris and Bradley Roby. Nobody’s saying it’s easy.
But has anyone seen a No. 1 receiver disappear as often as T.Y. Hilton?
That’s the bottom line from this game. The Colts weren’t supposed to drag their decimated defense and beleaguered offensive line into Denver and beat the defending Super Bowl champions. But “the defense hung in there,” as Pagano was saying afterward, and the offensive line “did a good job at some parts of that game giving the quarterback time.”
This game was winnable, but the quarterback wasn’t good enough and the receivers weren’t good enough. You have to think this won’t happen again. The Colts won’t face another defense this good, not unless they get to the playoffs and see Denver again.
But the Colts are 0-2. The playoffs are a long way off, and getting longer by the week.
But when that player is quarterback Andrew Luck, and he plays as poorly as he did in this 34-20 loss Sunday to the Denver Broncos, well, what can Pagano do? Hide from it? Pretend it didn’t happen? Over and over he chipped away at Luck’s mistakes until the end of his uncharacteristically honest appraisal, when I asked him about Luck’s accuracy issues. This is what Pagano said:
“I think we all saw the same thing.”
And we did. Well, most of us did. But here’s where this strange day gets even stranger.
Luck didn’t see it like that.
Not exactly. Luck didn’t think he played well, don’t misunderstand, but he wasn’t willing to shoulder all the blame for his poor performance. And this was exceptionally poor. He wasn’t good for three quarters – he was 10-of-26 at one point – and in the fourth quarter he completely self-destructed. He threw an interception that was returned for a touchdown, then lost a fumble that was returned for another touchdown.
“You can’t turn the ball over,” Pagano said. “You can’t have a pick-six and strip fumbles returned for touchdowns. It’s too hard to overcome.”
Overall Luck was 21-of-40 for 197 yards, one touchdown and two turnovers. His quarterback rating was 64.3, well below his career rating of 85.7. He didn’t think he was good. Believe that. Asked right away how he played, Luck told the truth:
“Not good enough to win, obviously,” he said. “Need to be sharper to beat a team like that.”
But as the questioning continued, Luck started deflecting some blame. That’s how it sounded to me, anyway. I’ll show you what he said here in a minute. You decide. But first, here’s what Luck said last week after the Colts’ 39-35 loss to Detroit, after throwing for 385 yards and four touchdowns and no interceptions in one of the finest games of his career:
“Disappointed in myself for being part of a slow start,” he said, which was vintage Luck.
After this loss, vintage Luck was replaced by a Luck who sounded disappointed in his receivers. For starters, that pick-six early in the fourth quarter when he tried to hit Phillip Dorsett downfield. Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib stepped in front of the pass at the 46 and weaved his way down the sideline for a touchdown that gave Denver a 23-13 lead.
“He made a good play,” Luck said of Talib. “He obviously got to the ball before our guy did.”
Luck was accurate to his running backs and tight ends – 14-of-18 for 110 yards – but he wasn’t on the same page with his three receivers. He completed just 6-of-19 passes to Dorsett, T.Y. Hilton and Donte Moncrief.
Asked about the difficulties making plays downfield, Luck suggested two issues:
“Guys winning their matchups, and also schemes,” he said. “You know, trying to make sure we have help on certain plays.”
Guys winning their matchups …
Schematic breakdowns will happen against the Broncos. They have the biggest game-wrecker in the NFL, outside linebacker Von Miller, along with Pro Bowler DeMarcus Ware. That duo combined for 3½ sacks and hit Luck four times overall, including one play where they held a staff meeting at Luck’s sternum.
But guys winning their matchups downfield? That’s uncharacteristic of Andrew Luck to suggest the problem was anything but Andrew Luck.
This whole day was odd. A Colts defense that gave up 37 points at home to the Lions – Detroit also scored on a safety – surrendered barely half that on the road to the Broncos. Denver’s offense scored 19 points overall, and just one touchdown.
Denver’s defense scored two TDs, both on plays that began with the ball in Luck’s hands and ended with the Broncos defense celebrating in the end zone. The second one, the strip-fumble, can’t be blamed entirely on Luck. Von Miller did what Von Miller does, beating right tackle Joe Reitz and separating the ball from Luck. Linebacker Shane Ray returned it 15 yards for a touchdown.
But the first one, the pick-six to Talib? Pagano was clear where that play went wrong.
“I know Andrew would love to have it back,” Pagano said. “We’d all love to have it back, but you have to take care of the ball in that situation.”
Pagano never mentioned the receiver on the play, Dorsett. Never suggested, as Luck had, that it was a catchable pass until Talib “got to the ball before our guy did.”
But let’s not let Dorsett off the hook, either. Recall Luck’s struggles with his top three receivers. That can’t be all Luck. He threw 11 passes to Hilton and completed four. He threw five passes to Dorsett and completed one. Before Moncrief left with an injury, Luck threw three passes his way; Moncrief caught one.
For Hilton, this continued his trend of struggling against elite defenses. The Patriots routinely stymie him. The Broncos have three super corners in Talib, Chris Harris and Bradley Roby. Nobody’s saying it’s easy.
But has anyone seen a No. 1 receiver disappear as often as T.Y. Hilton?
That’s the bottom line from this game. The Colts weren’t supposed to drag their decimated defense and beleaguered offensive line into Denver and beat the defending Super Bowl champions. But “the defense hung in there,” as Pagano was saying afterward, and the offensive line “did a good job at some parts of that game giving the quarterback time.”
This game was winnable, but the quarterback wasn’t good enough and the receivers weren’t good enough. You have to think this won’t happen again. The Colts won’t face another defense this good, not unless they get to the playoffs and see Denver again.
But the Colts are 0-2. The playoffs are a long way off, and getting longer by the week.
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- Jan 30, 2007
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DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
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^ looking (and sounding) more and more like PM18 every day 
i didn't watch that game, so i can't comment. but the comments about WRs winning matchups and not getting to balls...yikes. true or not...leave that for the film room
i didn't watch that game, so i can't comment. but the comments about WRs winning matchups and not getting to balls...yikes. true or not...leave that for the film room
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- Feb 22, 2007
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QB hot seat index: Osweiler? Tannehill? Fitz? Who should get benched first?
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/qb-hot...z-who-should-get-benched-first-133426696.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/qb-hot...z-who-should-get-benched-first-133426696.html
- Aug 21, 2005
- 8,906
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Tanne without a doubt
- Nov 20, 2003
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Without a doubt
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,287
- 19,666
Bump.
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,287
- 19,666
Been a while since we've had a Tannehill article.
http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/po...nnehill-learning-how-to-deliver-in-the-clutch
http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/po...nnehill-learning-how-to-deliver-in-the-clutch
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
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Omar Finnns has moved on from ******** on the QB to ******** on his HC...despite a 6 or 7 game win streak
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- Nov 20, 2003
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Am I happy we're winning, sure. If someone wants to serve crow after barely beating Jared Goff in his first start and a 1-10 team
FWIW Tannehill is ranked
TD passes - 16th (T)
Passer rating - 13th
Yards - 19th
Completion % - 11th
Most INT - 10th (T)
So... I'm here for the improvement. Well done.
- Nov 11, 2007
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Can we get some opinions on Carson Wentz?
Just kidding, please don't.
Just kidding, please don't.
- Nov 17, 2004
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A random QB I saw mentioned for league MVP just a week ago:
TD passes - 23rd
Passer rating - 16th
Yards - 13th
Completion % - 14th
Most INT - 28th
So really, Mr. Tannehill's statistics aren't that bad.
TD passes - 23rd
Passer rating - 16th
Yards - 13th
Completion % - 14th
Most INT - 28th
So really, Mr. Tannehill's statistics aren't that bad.
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
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Am I happy we're winning, sure. If someone wants to serve crow after barely beating Jared Goff in his first start and a 1-10 team
close games happen. NE barely beat a dog-sh*t Jets team yesterday. we barely beat you guys week 2. we'll probably barely beat the Ravens in two weeks. doesn't matter. winning is winning.
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
- 107,233
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oh no, i will....
he is a better (but younger) version of Alex Smith. so he throws a few more INTs but slightly further downfield
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- Nov 20, 2003
- 21,365
- 812
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
- 107,233
- 53,419
Am I happy we're winning, sure. If someone wants to serve crow after barely beating Jared Goff in his first start and a 1-10 team
FWIW Tannehill is ranked
TD passes - 16th (T)
Passer rating - 13th
Yards - 19th
Completion % - 11th
Most INT - 10th (T)
So... I'm here for the improvement. Well done.
TD to Stills week 1, dropped.
TD to Ajayi negated by bogus holding call, on Landry (???)
TD to backup TE that I don't even know negated by illegal formation (that Gase went nuts on the ref over, because they were wrong)
TD to Parker vs Pitt, dropped.
TD to Parker yesterday called back on tippy toe timing.
You're going to bring up INT that was dropped vs LA, which I will counter with, that was made up for when the Rams PI'd DVP and got a pick. Then I will mention one of his INT's was a hail mary on the last play of the game. Then I will follow that up with the INT vs Cincy, that EVERYONE blasted him for, Gase said flat out, the TE was at fault, because he wasn't there in time, it was a timing throw that Ryan threw to a spot, and the TE never got there.
But, you won't care about that, because you read stats and think that's all that matters, not any of the circumstances around them. 15-8 to you, is 15-8, even tho it really should be 20-5, but bad calls/luck happen to change things. And you being you, you'll never grasp or consider those things, you'll just keep saying "blah Hennehill missed a pass in the 2nd quarter of the 6th game of the season, and I remember that one, but for some reason I don't remember any of the other specific examples CP brought up because those don't help my case....."
But hey, our coach sucks, he doesn't "fix" penalties.
Never change Omar. You're doin a bang up job.
- Nov 20, 2003
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Ok sir.Prime opponent and a division leader this week. Not the Chargers, not the Bills, not the Rams, not the 49ers. Let's see what 17 has against a legit contender.
Prime opponent and a division leader this week. Not the Chargers, not the Bills, not the Rams, not the 49ers. Let's see what 17 has against a legit contender.
Like against Seattle, got it. *thumbs up*
So many people have learned, then we have Omar here. Week after week, still lost in 1990's analysis. 
- Apr 24, 2005
- 43,678
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The young QB's flourishing in the league this season
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
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The young QB's flourishing in the league this season
after last year where there was actually SOME doubt about the young guns, but we've been reassured.
MM8
Jameis
Carr
Dak
then the slightly older dudes playing well
Ryan
Stafford
Luck
then the good QBs who are having down years for whatever reason who are still good QBs:
Russ
Cam
AF12
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- Apr 27, 2009
- 19,563
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Here we go again. Tanneheill is the only QB in the league with drops and plays called back for penalties
- Apr 27, 2009
- 19,563
- 6,839
The young QB's flourishing in the league this season
after last year where there was actually SOME doubt about the young guns, but we've been reassured.
MM8
Jameis
Carr
Dak
then the slightly older dudes playing well
Ryan
Stafford
Luck
then the good QBs who are having down years for whatever reason who are still good QBs:
Russ
Cam
You don't think a slightly torn ligament on one leg and a sprained ankle on the other could hamper a QB?
DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
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can you for one second not be so damn defensive about Russ when someone doesn't crown him as an Elite QB? i said he's having a down year but is still a good QB. i know why he's having a down year. that's why i said he's still a good QB.
not everything is an indictment on Russ, man
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