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Westbrook, might be my all time favorite Eagle
That screen to Westbrook use to be the most dangerous play in the NFL, no joke.
Philadelphia Eagles '12 Official Thread 4-10 *Farewell Andy Reid
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by stillin729,
- Start date
Westbrook, might be my all time favorite Eagle
That screen to Westbrook use to be the most dangerous play in the NFL, no joke.
I'm officially done with Vick and Reid, the defense gave up 21 pts to the saints on mnf and lost we should of atleast scored 30, the offensive line is bad but there are adjustment that can made to aid that, ever since Vick became the starting qb we have been one of the worst redzone teams, I'm tired of it we also need to bring in a more physical receiver who can make plays
Bring on Nick foles, its not like the offense could get worse
End rant
Bring on Nick foles, its not like the offense could get worse
End rant
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i've pretty much seen enough of Reid. Yea I believe he is in a tough spot with a depleted O-line but that still doesn't explain the horrible red-zone numbers, horrible defense, and sub-par special teams. I think it's time for a change, this was the game he had to have. Losing to Atlanta in the fashion they did was inexcusable. Way too much talent on this team to be playing like this, I really feel like the players no longer believe in their coach.....
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here are the problems with the eagles...
Fire Andy Reid. He is the main problem, not vick. Vick gets hit more than any QB in the league, nick foles will get killed back there. keep vick as the starter, but we should draft another young, athletic QB next year in the 3rd or 4th round to groom behind vick for a few years because i dont think nick foles is the future. Reid is a horrible play caller and decision maker, he wanted to start kevin kolb over vick and mcnabb. The fans made andy reid start Vick. Reid has been Saved by talented players like mcnabb, westbrook, vick, mccoy and desean jackson winning games for him over the years which made him look good. Also bring in a new offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator, just bring in a whole new coaching staff period. reid never should have hired our offensive line coach as the defensive coordinator, another horrible decision.
Give the ball to Shady!!! he is a top 5 rb. give him the ball more. even if we are losing, it will stop teams from blitzing us so much, then vick will have a little more time when he drops back to pass.
Trade or cut Nnamdi. he is making 11 million this year and all he does is get burnt every week for touchdowns and miss tackles. Asante samuel was a much better player for us and we could have kept him for alot less money than what we are paying Nnamdi, another bad decision by andy reid.
Who is the last good defensive player the eagles have Drafted??? probably brian dawkins or trent cole.. Get us a Real safety and another linebacker to play alongside demeco ryans. All of our defensive draft picks have been subpar or bust since reid has been in charge. Defensive play calling has also been horrible, we went 3 games straight this year without a sack.
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Fire Andy Reid. He is the main problem, not vick. Vick gets hit more than any QB in the league, nick foles will get killed back there. keep vick as the starter, but we should draft another young, athletic QB next year in the 3rd or 4th round to groom behind vick for a few years because i dont think nick foles is the future. Reid is a horrible play caller and decision maker, he wanted to start kevin kolb over vick and mcnabb. The fans made andy reid start Vick. Reid has been Saved by talented players like mcnabb, westbrook, vick, mccoy and desean jackson winning games for him over the years which made him look good. Also bring in a new offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator, just bring in a whole new coaching staff period. reid never should have hired our offensive line coach as the defensive coordinator, another horrible decision.
Give the ball to Shady!!! he is a top 5 rb. give him the ball more. even if we are losing, it will stop teams from blitzing us so much, then vick will have a little more time when he drops back to pass.
Trade or cut Nnamdi. he is making 11 million this year and all he does is get burnt every week for touchdowns and miss tackles. Asante samuel was a much better player for us and we could have kept him for alot less money than what we are paying Nnamdi, another bad decision by andy reid.
Who is the last good defensive player the eagles have Drafted??? probably brian dawkins or trent cole.. Get us a Real safety and another linebacker to play alongside demeco ryans. All of our defensive draft picks have been subpar or bust since reid has been in charge. Defensive play calling has also been horrible, we went 3 games straight this year without a sack.
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I've had time to sleep on this....and the conclusion I've come to is this:
1) Thank you Andy for making this franchise relevant and a legit contender over your time here, you have done great things for this franchise but your time has come, please hand inn your resignation papers
2) This O-line is pathetic, yes they have several injuries but your backups should at least be able to play the position, Howard Mudd...you gotta do better
3) We need a big WR for the redzone if they are going to continue to not run the ball.....we ran it like 3-4 times in our FIVE redzone trips last night, accumulating 6 damn points, terrible
4) GIVE THE DAMN BALL TO OUR BEST PLAYER: #25, SHADY! For the love of all things holy, what is wrong with running it! Especially against the worst run defense in the league
5) This defensive line is struggling, I liked how Brandon Graham has played with limited time, bench Babin and let him go to work and see what he can do wiith starter's minutes
6) Nnamdi and DRC are probably the softest, worst tackling duo in the league...Boykin is 5-8 and can wrap up better than these dudes, and if you're gonna not tackle, at least make a play and not get beat so much
7) These safeties :x good lord they are bad......yeah Nate Allen was hurt but he's no world beater
Vick needs to be able to recognize blitzes, I know the o-line is awful but you have to know when we have nobody in the backfield and they have 8 in the box that you gotta get rid of it very quickly, can't sacrifice your body and health and suspend drives like that, its killing us. I'm not calling for Foles b/c he will die out there seriously, Vick eludes some of the would be sacks that Foles would not be able to avoid. This is probably the last yr for MV7 though
Mr. Lurie this is unacceptable, Andy said he was reevaluating the whole organization during the bye and we've had 2 bad losses since, you want to be the gold standard? Then please make the change and put everybody on alert that they are playing for their jobs, every single damn one of these players (except Shady, Desean, and Peters when he gets back b/c we need him in the worst way possible) is playing for their JOB this yr and next yr.
9) I don't want to say it, but could it be time to blow this thing up? Back to back yrs with all the hype and talent on this squad and they are STILL making the same mistakes, they do not respond to coaching and they are not a good unit.
1) Thank you Andy for making this franchise relevant and a legit contender over your time here, you have done great things for this franchise but your time has come, please hand inn your resignation papers
2) This O-line is pathetic, yes they have several injuries but your backups should at least be able to play the position, Howard Mudd...you gotta do better
3) We need a big WR for the redzone if they are going to continue to not run the ball.....we ran it like 3-4 times in our FIVE redzone trips last night, accumulating 6 damn points, terrible
4) GIVE THE DAMN BALL TO OUR BEST PLAYER: #25, SHADY! For the love of all things holy, what is wrong with running it! Especially against the worst run defense in the league
5) This defensive line is struggling, I liked how Brandon Graham has played with limited time, bench Babin and let him go to work and see what he can do wiith starter's minutes
6) Nnamdi and DRC are probably the softest, worst tackling duo in the league...Boykin is 5-8 and can wrap up better than these dudes, and if you're gonna not tackle, at least make a play and not get beat so much
7) These safeties :x good lord they are bad......yeah Nate Allen was hurt but he's no world beater
Vick needs to be able to recognize blitzes, I know the o-line is awful but you have to know when we have nobody in the backfield and they have 8 in the box that you gotta get rid of it very quickly, can't sacrifice your body and health and suspend drives like that, its killing us. I'm not calling for Foles b/c he will die out there seriously, Vick eludes some of the would be sacks that Foles would not be able to avoid. This is probably the last yr for MV7 though Mr. Lurie this is unacceptable, Andy said he was reevaluating the whole organization during the bye and we've had 2 bad losses since, you want to be the gold standard? Then please make the change and put everybody on alert that they are playing for their jobs, every single damn one of these players (except Shady, Desean, and Peters when he gets back b/c we need him in the worst way possible) is playing for their JOB this yr and next yr.9) I don't want to say it, but could it be time to blow this thing up? Back to back yrs with all the hype and talent on this squad and they are STILL making the same mistakes, they do not respond to coaching and they are not a good unit.
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^^ Eagles stink. Period. Let them keep gassin up each other i wont mess with them until half the personel is fired. Let andy's walrus lookin self re-evaluate his job choices.
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Demetress Bell should be arrested.
Dude is robbing the Eagles blind man....
Nnamdi too.
Dude is robbing the Eagles blind man....
Nnamdi too.
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If we get long term eventually Super Bowl winning status then I'm ALL for blowing this team up. They flat out suck. We need a coach who likes to play physical football, who likes to run and play good defense
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Who DAT????
Too bad we still won't make the playoffs
Too bad we still won't make the playoffs
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and someone who can evaluate personnel way better. Players and coaches alike, Howard Mudd has whiffed so bad on this o-line it's unbelievable, i wont even mention how bad our offensive playcalling is, it's been that way for years
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Howard Mudd got this line blocking but thats only when we run the ball which is never with Reid. We had I think 170 yards rushing in the first half and we ended with about 220 smh. We coulda literally ran back into the game. Mudd gotta work with these dudes on pass blocking cause theyre horrible and Vick has to at least try to read the defense. He just snaps the ball and tries to let his instincts handle everything during the play and that aint gonna cut it
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Vick didn't lose you this game or last week's game. Since Vick got there you guys have had horrendous offensive line play. Every time I watch the eagles I see miss assignments or just straight up poor blocking. Do you guys know how many free runs at Vick you guys give up? You guys can bench Vick if you want but he's not the issue here, its the O-line. When Vick has time to throw, he can make plays. You guys can have Manning, Brees, Rodgers or whomever but with a line like that, you guys aren't getting anything accomplished.
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Damn. Look at all the time you guys are wasting getting all bent out of shape about this team. I'm telling you, say goodbye to this year and come back when the offseason starts. Win or lose, this team is dreadful to watch. Same mistakes over and over and over again.
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unfortunately, they get crashed!
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well focus on the positives..
we have some young playmakers in place to build around.. and we have a ton of cap space (we're currently 21,716,957 under the cap: eaglescap.com)
vick can be cut for nothing, unless he's injured http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...l-vicks-contract-guarantees-shrink-after-2012
nnamdi could be gone with only a 4 mill cap hit, but it frees up 11.3 mill: http://eaglescap.com/Players/NnamdiAsamugah.html
we have some young playmakers in place to build around.. and we have a ton of cap space (we're currently 21,716,957 under the cap: eaglescap.com)
vick can be cut for nothing, unless he's injured http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...l-vicks-contract-guarantees-shrink-after-2012
nnamdi could be gone with only a 4 mill cap hit, but it frees up 11.3 mill: http://eaglescap.com/Players/NnamdiAsamugah.html
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[h1]Time For Tough Questions[/h1]
Posted: November 6th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 3 Comments »
Many of you want to focus on Andy Reid. Listen, the team is 3-5. He will need a miracle finish to keep his job. If he pulls off a miracle finish, he deserves to stay. If he doesn’t pull off that miracle, he’s heading to San Diego (just a strong guess).
Talking about Reid isn’t a big deal for me right now. I’m more focused on the players. To me, that’s the tougher discussion. Who stays? Who goes?
Player evaluation is tricky. Remember how excited everyone was about Dennis Kelly after last week. Will Danny Watkins ever get his job back? I didn’t write about that because I wanted to see a second game. I’ve been burned in the past by a guy that steps in and plays really well for a game, then disappears or flattens out significantly.
The best non-Shawn Andrews game I’ve seen a G play for the Eagles was Artis Hicks vs the Giants in 2003. I was ready to put him in Canton. Didn’t last. Our buddy Brian Baldinger was ready to marry/adopt/worship Jamar Chaney after 1.5 games in 2010. Back in 2009 Will Witherspoon made a spectacular debut as an Eagle with a sack, INT, and FF on MNF. He then was useless for the remainder of the season. Bobby Hoying of 1997 was good. Hoying of 1998 was torturously bad. (“Please, turn off the tape and waterboard me some more!!!”)
One game can give you a false-positive or a false-negative. You need a bigger sample. You need to see how the player performs for multiple games. You need to see how much of his success is due to his teammates or the scheme. You need to see how teams adjust to him and how he adjusts to the adjustments. Just because a guy hits a home run in his first at bat doesn’t mean he’s going to be Babe Ruth.
When the season is officially over, someone will need to evaluate the roster and decide who stays and who goes. Clearly Nnamdi Asomugha is a goner. He’s lost a step and it sure doesn’t look like he’s consistently physical enough to play Safety. He’s not worth big money, so he’s gone.
What about Jason Babin and Cullen Jenkins? Fans will scream loudly to cut Babin, understandably so. The personnel guys/coaches who study him have to be a bit more careful. They have to recognize that he had 18 sacks in 2011. Was that the anomaly or is 2012 the anomaly? As fans it is easy to scream the answer you want, but as a team employee your job rides on the evaluation. Get it wrong and you can lose your job. Much tougher.
We all love Trent Cole to death. What is the deal with him? Last night he had a chance for an easy sack and ran right by Brees. That makes me think Trent is in a slump of some kind. He’s pressing and playing out of control, not a usual trait of his. But it could be that time has caught up to him and has robbed him of half a step of quickness. That’s all it takes to go from sack machine to pressure machine.
There are 3 big questions on offense. The most important for the whole team is what to do at QB. I think there is very little shot for Vick to return. He is due big money next year and I don’t think the organization believes in him long term. Is Nick Foles the guy? It really would be great to get him 4 to 6 starts this year to take a look at what he can do. If there are legit doubts about him, you have to bring in serious competition.
The problem at QB is that the draft class looks weak. If you cut Vick and don’t like Foles, you need plan C. Foles really is the logical way to go for 2013, but it will help whoever is the key decision-maker if they can watch him in action. I don’t believe you bench Vick right now, but it’s getting closer and closer.
The other questions on offense are whether you count on Jason Peters coming back and then deciding if Jeremy Maclin is the right guy to keep. I think Mac is an above average player. The problem is that he doesn’t complement DeSean well. Mac has size, but plays small. He’s a finesse WR that runs well. DeSean is smaller, faster, and explosive. You’d love the guy across from him to be bigger and more physical.
It is important for the players to bust their humps in the final 8 games. What they show can help decide who stays and who goes. Players need to have the right attitude in the classroom, practice, and in games. This is why it is important for Reid to keep a steady and not just start benching players en masse. You need to maintain a professional atmosphere, even if you’re losing. Dave Spadaro talks about the end of the Rhodes regime and how players would sit at practice and talk on their cellphones. Reid will never let things get to that point.
You must be careful in talent evaluation to make sure players are done or have proven to be busts. Justin Tuck was injured and unproductive for his first 2 seasons, but then got healthy and was a perfect fit for Steve Spagnuolo’s scheme in 2007. The rest is history. Roddy White was an underachiever after 2 years. He was better the next 2, but then got better the last 3 seasons. A proven vet like Charles Woodson left Oakland as a huge question mark. He wasn’t signed until late April of 2006 and only Tampa and Green Bay showed interest, but he’s been a force for the Packers ever since. A change of scenery did him a world of good. He also got healthy and stayed healthy.
It is easy to play armchair GM and call for the Eagles to be blown up. ”Cut ‘em all”. The reality is that the roster has talent right now. The trick is to figure out which players are underachieving this year and which ones just aren’t good anymore or were overrated in the first place.
The final 8 games may or may not be important to the final record, but they can have a big impact on the careers of some players, coaches, and personnel guys.
http://igglesblitz.com/philadelphia-eagles-2/time-for-tough-questions/
Posted: November 6th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 3 Comments »
Many of you want to focus on Andy Reid. Listen, the team is 3-5. He will need a miracle finish to keep his job. If he pulls off a miracle finish, he deserves to stay. If he doesn’t pull off that miracle, he’s heading to San Diego (just a strong guess).
Talking about Reid isn’t a big deal for me right now. I’m more focused on the players. To me, that’s the tougher discussion. Who stays? Who goes?
Player evaluation is tricky. Remember how excited everyone was about Dennis Kelly after last week. Will Danny Watkins ever get his job back? I didn’t write about that because I wanted to see a second game. I’ve been burned in the past by a guy that steps in and plays really well for a game, then disappears or flattens out significantly.
The best non-Shawn Andrews game I’ve seen a G play for the Eagles was Artis Hicks vs the Giants in 2003. I was ready to put him in Canton. Didn’t last. Our buddy Brian Baldinger was ready to marry/adopt/worship Jamar Chaney after 1.5 games in 2010. Back in 2009 Will Witherspoon made a spectacular debut as an Eagle with a sack, INT, and FF on MNF. He then was useless for the remainder of the season. Bobby Hoying of 1997 was good. Hoying of 1998 was torturously bad. (“Please, turn off the tape and waterboard me some more!!!”)
One game can give you a false-positive or a false-negative. You need a bigger sample. You need to see how the player performs for multiple games. You need to see how much of his success is due to his teammates or the scheme. You need to see how teams adjust to him and how he adjusts to the adjustments. Just because a guy hits a home run in his first at bat doesn’t mean he’s going to be Babe Ruth.
When the season is officially over, someone will need to evaluate the roster and decide who stays and who goes. Clearly Nnamdi Asomugha is a goner. He’s lost a step and it sure doesn’t look like he’s consistently physical enough to play Safety. He’s not worth big money, so he’s gone.
What about Jason Babin and Cullen Jenkins? Fans will scream loudly to cut Babin, understandably so. The personnel guys/coaches who study him have to be a bit more careful. They have to recognize that he had 18 sacks in 2011. Was that the anomaly or is 2012 the anomaly? As fans it is easy to scream the answer you want, but as a team employee your job rides on the evaluation. Get it wrong and you can lose your job. Much tougher.
We all love Trent Cole to death. What is the deal with him? Last night he had a chance for an easy sack and ran right by Brees. That makes me think Trent is in a slump of some kind. He’s pressing and playing out of control, not a usual trait of his. But it could be that time has caught up to him and has robbed him of half a step of quickness. That’s all it takes to go from sack machine to pressure machine.
There are 3 big questions on offense. The most important for the whole team is what to do at QB. I think there is very little shot for Vick to return. He is due big money next year and I don’t think the organization believes in him long term. Is Nick Foles the guy? It really would be great to get him 4 to 6 starts this year to take a look at what he can do. If there are legit doubts about him, you have to bring in serious competition.
The problem at QB is that the draft class looks weak. If you cut Vick and don’t like Foles, you need plan C. Foles really is the logical way to go for 2013, but it will help whoever is the key decision-maker if they can watch him in action. I don’t believe you bench Vick right now, but it’s getting closer and closer.
The other questions on offense are whether you count on Jason Peters coming back and then deciding if Jeremy Maclin is the right guy to keep. I think Mac is an above average player. The problem is that he doesn’t complement DeSean well. Mac has size, but plays small. He’s a finesse WR that runs well. DeSean is smaller, faster, and explosive. You’d love the guy across from him to be bigger and more physical.
It is important for the players to bust their humps in the final 8 games. What they show can help decide who stays and who goes. Players need to have the right attitude in the classroom, practice, and in games. This is why it is important for Reid to keep a steady and not just start benching players en masse. You need to maintain a professional atmosphere, even if you’re losing. Dave Spadaro talks about the end of the Rhodes regime and how players would sit at practice and talk on their cellphones. Reid will never let things get to that point.
You must be careful in talent evaluation to make sure players are done or have proven to be busts. Justin Tuck was injured and unproductive for his first 2 seasons, but then got healthy and was a perfect fit for Steve Spagnuolo’s scheme in 2007. The rest is history. Roddy White was an underachiever after 2 years. He was better the next 2, but then got better the last 3 seasons. A proven vet like Charles Woodson left Oakland as a huge question mark. He wasn’t signed until late April of 2006 and only Tampa and Green Bay showed interest, but he’s been a force for the Packers ever since. A change of scenery did him a world of good. He also got healthy and stayed healthy.
It is easy to play armchair GM and call for the Eagles to be blown up. ”Cut ‘em all”. The reality is that the roster has talent right now. The trick is to figure out which players are underachieving this year and which ones just aren’t good anymore or were overrated in the first place.
The final 8 games may or may not be important to the final record, but they can have a big impact on the careers of some players, coaches, and personnel guys.
http://igglesblitz.com/philadelphia-eagles-2/time-for-tough-questions/
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cutting Vick isn't the answer. Re-building your O-line through the draft and Free Agency is.
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Cutting Vick isn't the answer, but it's a good idea, rather than pay him the $15.5m
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[h1]Fourth-and-Short: The Eagles Can't Help Themselves[/h1]
By Bill Barnwell on
November 6, 2012 12:33 PM ET
Chris Graythen/Getty Images
It's not my goal to talk about the Eagles so frequently here at Grantland, but when they deliver a performance in prime time that is so distinctly, specifically … Eagles (as they did last night), well, I feel like there's just too much to say about them to move onto other topics in Fourth-and-Short. They are car-crash football television, appointment viewing for fans motivated by Schadenfreude, and the ultimate viewing experience for your irritating uncle who watches the game and acts like he's an expert on passing mechanics and decision-making. http://
While the game felt like a blowout for most of the contest, it essentially came down to one single play, the Patrick Robinson 99-yard pick-six at the end of the first quarter that served as the opening score. I'm fond of referring to those sort of goal-line-to-goal-line pick-sixes as the single worst play in sports, and it's hard to think of a play that impacts scoring (and momentum) more. The pick-six there represents a swing of about 13 points, since a team with the ball on the goal line will score an average of right under six points (mostly touchdowns, with a few field goals and the occasional turnover mixed in), and the pick-six produces seven points for the opposition. You can't simultaneously take away such a meaningful play for your own team and provide such a valuable scoring play for the opposition at the same time in any other sport; it would be like if you struck out with the bases loaded and somehow produced a grand slam for the opposing team in the process. In a game that was decided by a 14-point swing, Michael Vick's pick-six was responsible for virtually the entire margin of victory.
[h3]Watch Out for Me, Andy[/h3]
Another thing that makes the Single Worst Play in Sports so devastating is its relative scarcity. Turnovers in the red zone that produce touchdowns for the defense simply don't happen very frequently. From 2007 to 2011, just 12 of the 214 turnovers (5.6 percent) that came on plays that began inside the opposition's 10-yard line resulted in return touchdowns for the defense. Through the first nine weeks of the 2012 season, there have been 30 such turnovers, and two have been returned for touchdowns. Guess which offense was on the field for both of them? From 2007 to 2011, only one team (the Giants) had more than one turnover inside the opposition's 10-yard line result in a touchdown return the other way; they had three in five years. In 2012, the Eagles have had two of those plays happen across a stretch of six games. That's truly remarkable.
[h3]The Cost of Vicking[/h3]
To be specific, the pick-six in the first quarter on Monday night cost the Eagles 11.8 points. Brian Burke's calculator estimates that a team in Philadelphia's situation at the time of the interception will score an average of 4.8 points on their drive, given the down and distance and game situation. Vick's interception wiped those points off the board and gave the Saints seven free points on the touchdown return, producing that 11.8-point swing.
That got me to thinking: How many points have the Eagles lost on turnovers involving Vick this year? Every team will lose some percentage of their output to takeaways each season, but what would Philadelphia's offense be like if Vick didn't fumble or throw interceptions?
There's never going to be a concrete answer to questions like these, but plugging the respective game-states for each Vick fumble or interception into Burke's calculator, Philadelphia's foregone about 35.2 points of offense by turning the ball over in the situations they have done so, which would be just under 21 percent of their total offensive output for the season if they never turned the ball over. When you add in the 21 points produced by the three return touchdowns (and extra points) created by the defense on those plays, the turnovers have cost Philly 56.1 points on the season. It's enough to turn the Eagles and their NFC-worst minus-50 point differential into a respectable, above-average team.
And even that represents a friendly estimate, since it doesn't include whatever improved field position the Eagles give to their opposition with their turnovers. The Eagles had left their defense with the league's second-worst average starting field position through Week 8, something that is undoubtedly Juan Castillo's fault.
[h3]Quick Fix for Six?[/h3]
In light of Philadelphia's red zone fiascoes against the Saints, I wanted to take a look back and see if there was any sort of trend or tendency — beyond "they're awful" — that I could use to diagnose Philly's issues. So, with the help of the coaches' tape on NFL Game Rewind, I went back and watched every red zone snap the Eagles have taken on offense this season. What I found was disappointing: There's not one clear problem or easy solution from their red zone performance that I can throw out there as an obvious story line. (Here's where I wish I hadn't burned through my "It's Juan Castillo's fault" joke in the previous section.)
My sneaking suspicion was that the Eagles were leaving Vick in an empty backfield too frequently inside the red zone and it was creating problems, but that wasn't the case. Before Monday night, the Eagles had lined up with Vick as the quarterback in an empty set four times inside the red zone, and those four plays had produced two touchdowns with one interception. Vick's certainly been under heavy pressure in the red zone, and it's affected his decision-making while creating both turnovers and narrow escapes of turnovers, but he's been subject to that pressure in all kinds of formations and with six or even seven players in to block.
Take Arizona's strip sack of Vick and return for a touchdown several weeks ago. Watch LeSean McCoy and what he does in pass protection on the play. It's impossible to truly tell what the pass protection should have been on the play without the playbook next to the video, but on coaches' film, it sure looks like the linemen fan right, which would leave McCoy to shoot out left and pick up a blitzer from the left side of the line (right side of the defense). Instead, at the snap, McCoy shoots out to the right, and Kerry Rhodes gets a free hit on Vick's blind side. The play could alternately have been designed for Vick to read (and elude) any pressure from that side, but with Vick not even facing that direction after the snap, it seems unlikely. The Eagles can leave blockers in to protect Vick, but they have to do their job. Demetress Bell's awful performance in the place of an injured Todd Herremans last night is further proof of that.
While plenty of folks seemed to call for the Eagles to lean more heavily on McCoy as a ballcarrier inside the red zone, the truth is that he really hasn't been very effective there this season. How ineffective? McCoy has 17 rushing yards on 16 red zone carries this year, and you don't need me to do the division there to tell you that's bad. He's scored just twice on those 17 touches, which is awful low for a guy who has three touchdowns on his six receptions. He's also fumbled twice in the red zone this year, losing one of them. While you can shake a tree in Philly and find 10 people who will tell you Reid needs to run the ball more, I think Reid's lack of confidence in his offensive line's ability to create any push at the line of scrimmage in short-yardage is reflected in those numbers. The Eagles could and should have found a carry or two for him in the red zone on Monday, but it's not like they were guaranteed to score touchdowns if they were just smart enough to hand him the ball and get out of the way.
If you're looking for hope, there have been two plays that have worked well in the red zone for the Eagles, and I suspect that you'll see them again soon in the coming weeks. One shows up toward the edges of the red zone, and it involves the Eagles running a two-man route with DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin while leaving everyone else in to block as part of a max protect scheme for Vick. It worked for a touchdown against the Browns in Week 1 and then again against the Giants in Week 4. Philadelphia's actually a reasonably effective team within those first 10 yards of the red zone; it's the final 10 yards where they really struggle. Their best play within a few yards of the goal line has come on the rarely seen middle screen, a play-action pass that sees a receiver (in this case, McCoy or a tight end like Clay Harbor) block for a brief moment before turning to the quarterback and taking a short pass with blocking linemen in front of him. It's a dangerous pass, since it travels through traffic by definition, but it can be effective. It's gone for three completions this year, including a touchdown to McCoy against the Falcons.
So then, unfortunately, we're left with a problem that's more complex than simply running the ball more frequently, changing the quarterback, or chalking it all up to bad luck. It's unlikely that the Eagles will commit the Single Worst Play in Sports again this season, but they're also more prone to it than any other team because they get too sloppy in the red zone and don't do a good job of protecting Vick. And even that's just a guess, really. The only thing that's truly clear about the Eagles' red zone problem is that it's costing them football games. Monday night's loss was perhaps the clearest example of that yet.
By Bill Barnwell on
November 6, 2012 12:33 PM ET
It's not my goal to talk about the Eagles so frequently here at Grantland, but when they deliver a performance in prime time that is so distinctly, specifically … Eagles (as they did last night), well, I feel like there's just too much to say about them to move onto other topics in Fourth-and-Short. They are car-crash football television, appointment viewing for fans motivated by Schadenfreude, and the ultimate viewing experience for your irritating uncle who watches the game and acts like he's an expert on passing mechanics and decision-making. http://
While the game felt like a blowout for most of the contest, it essentially came down to one single play, the Patrick Robinson 99-yard pick-six at the end of the first quarter that served as the opening score. I'm fond of referring to those sort of goal-line-to-goal-line pick-sixes as the single worst play in sports, and it's hard to think of a play that impacts scoring (and momentum) more. The pick-six there represents a swing of about 13 points, since a team with the ball on the goal line will score an average of right under six points (mostly touchdowns, with a few field goals and the occasional turnover mixed in), and the pick-six produces seven points for the opposition. You can't simultaneously take away such a meaningful play for your own team and provide such a valuable scoring play for the opposition at the same time in any other sport; it would be like if you struck out with the bases loaded and somehow produced a grand slam for the opposing team in the process. In a game that was decided by a 14-point swing, Michael Vick's pick-six was responsible for virtually the entire margin of victory.
[h3]Watch Out for Me, Andy[/h3]
Another thing that makes the Single Worst Play in Sports so devastating is its relative scarcity. Turnovers in the red zone that produce touchdowns for the defense simply don't happen very frequently. From 2007 to 2011, just 12 of the 214 turnovers (5.6 percent) that came on plays that began inside the opposition's 10-yard line resulted in return touchdowns for the defense. Through the first nine weeks of the 2012 season, there have been 30 such turnovers, and two have been returned for touchdowns. Guess which offense was on the field for both of them? From 2007 to 2011, only one team (the Giants) had more than one turnover inside the opposition's 10-yard line result in a touchdown return the other way; they had three in five years. In 2012, the Eagles have had two of those plays happen across a stretch of six games. That's truly remarkable.
[h3]The Cost of Vicking[/h3]
To be specific, the pick-six in the first quarter on Monday night cost the Eagles 11.8 points. Brian Burke's calculator estimates that a team in Philadelphia's situation at the time of the interception will score an average of 4.8 points on their drive, given the down and distance and game situation. Vick's interception wiped those points off the board and gave the Saints seven free points on the touchdown return, producing that 11.8-point swing.
That got me to thinking: How many points have the Eagles lost on turnovers involving Vick this year? Every team will lose some percentage of their output to takeaways each season, but what would Philadelphia's offense be like if Vick didn't fumble or throw interceptions?
There's never going to be a concrete answer to questions like these, but plugging the respective game-states for each Vick fumble or interception into Burke's calculator, Philadelphia's foregone about 35.2 points of offense by turning the ball over in the situations they have done so, which would be just under 21 percent of their total offensive output for the season if they never turned the ball over. When you add in the 21 points produced by the three return touchdowns (and extra points) created by the defense on those plays, the turnovers have cost Philly 56.1 points on the season. It's enough to turn the Eagles and their NFC-worst minus-50 point differential into a respectable, above-average team.
And even that represents a friendly estimate, since it doesn't include whatever improved field position the Eagles give to their opposition with their turnovers. The Eagles had left their defense with the league's second-worst average starting field position through Week 8, something that is undoubtedly Juan Castillo's fault.
[h3]Quick Fix for Six?[/h3]
In light of Philadelphia's red zone fiascoes against the Saints, I wanted to take a look back and see if there was any sort of trend or tendency — beyond "they're awful" — that I could use to diagnose Philly's issues. So, with the help of the coaches' tape on NFL Game Rewind, I went back and watched every red zone snap the Eagles have taken on offense this season. What I found was disappointing: There's not one clear problem or easy solution from their red zone performance that I can throw out there as an obvious story line. (Here's where I wish I hadn't burned through my "It's Juan Castillo's fault" joke in the previous section.)
My sneaking suspicion was that the Eagles were leaving Vick in an empty backfield too frequently inside the red zone and it was creating problems, but that wasn't the case. Before Monday night, the Eagles had lined up with Vick as the quarterback in an empty set four times inside the red zone, and those four plays had produced two touchdowns with one interception. Vick's certainly been under heavy pressure in the red zone, and it's affected his decision-making while creating both turnovers and narrow escapes of turnovers, but he's been subject to that pressure in all kinds of formations and with six or even seven players in to block.
Take Arizona's strip sack of Vick and return for a touchdown several weeks ago. Watch LeSean McCoy and what he does in pass protection on the play. It's impossible to truly tell what the pass protection should have been on the play without the playbook next to the video, but on coaches' film, it sure looks like the linemen fan right, which would leave McCoy to shoot out left and pick up a blitzer from the left side of the line (right side of the defense). Instead, at the snap, McCoy shoots out to the right, and Kerry Rhodes gets a free hit on Vick's blind side. The play could alternately have been designed for Vick to read (and elude) any pressure from that side, but with Vick not even facing that direction after the snap, it seems unlikely. The Eagles can leave blockers in to protect Vick, but they have to do their job. Demetress Bell's awful performance in the place of an injured Todd Herremans last night is further proof of that.
While plenty of folks seemed to call for the Eagles to lean more heavily on McCoy as a ballcarrier inside the red zone, the truth is that he really hasn't been very effective there this season. How ineffective? McCoy has 17 rushing yards on 16 red zone carries this year, and you don't need me to do the division there to tell you that's bad. He's scored just twice on those 17 touches, which is awful low for a guy who has three touchdowns on his six receptions. He's also fumbled twice in the red zone this year, losing one of them. While you can shake a tree in Philly and find 10 people who will tell you Reid needs to run the ball more, I think Reid's lack of confidence in his offensive line's ability to create any push at the line of scrimmage in short-yardage is reflected in those numbers. The Eagles could and should have found a carry or two for him in the red zone on Monday, but it's not like they were guaranteed to score touchdowns if they were just smart enough to hand him the ball and get out of the way.
If you're looking for hope, there have been two plays that have worked well in the red zone for the Eagles, and I suspect that you'll see them again soon in the coming weeks. One shows up toward the edges of the red zone, and it involves the Eagles running a two-man route with DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin while leaving everyone else in to block as part of a max protect scheme for Vick. It worked for a touchdown against the Browns in Week 1 and then again against the Giants in Week 4. Philadelphia's actually a reasonably effective team within those first 10 yards of the red zone; it's the final 10 yards where they really struggle. Their best play within a few yards of the goal line has come on the rarely seen middle screen, a play-action pass that sees a receiver (in this case, McCoy or a tight end like Clay Harbor) block for a brief moment before turning to the quarterback and taking a short pass with blocking linemen in front of him. It's a dangerous pass, since it travels through traffic by definition, but it can be effective. It's gone for three completions this year, including a touchdown to McCoy against the Falcons.
So then, unfortunately, we're left with a problem that's more complex than simply running the ball more frequently, changing the quarterback, or chalking it all up to bad luck. It's unlikely that the Eagles will commit the Single Worst Play in Sports again this season, but they're also more prone to it than any other team because they get too sloppy in the red zone and don't do a good job of protecting Vick. And even that's just a guess, really. The only thing that's truly clear about the Eagles' red zone problem is that it's costing them football games. Monday night's loss was perhaps the clearest example of that yet.
gmsboy1
Banned
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I can respect if you're thinking is sports really don't matter in the big picture, no use spending so much time and energy in fandom.
But you're promoting abandoning ship when it gets tough and then to come back when every team has a chance again.
I knew since way back you were a fake @#$ fan. And please don't ever try and bash on Cowboy fans again like you used to always do, for any reason.
You have no credibility. YOU should banned from the Eagles team thread.
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Amen bro. With that mentality, he'd slit his wrists being a Raider fan after one season lol. You have to watch/support your team through the rough spells...makes the flourishing moments so much more special. And for Eagle fans, you guys haven't had it that tough. You're as close as any team who's trying to finally get over the hump.
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^ Please don't tell me that I haven't had it that bad when the franchise has been "close" but has yet to win a Super Bowl in their history. The only team that can tell me not to be mad is the Lions.
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Cosign, everything else they are right tho. Cmon Dajoka
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True. The Eagles as a franchise have had moderately high highs with moderately low lows. Compare to say the Raiders where we've won championships in the past, but have HISTORICALLY low performances for seasons at time. :x :x :x
You guys have a top notch GM, reminds me a lot of Green Bay's (outside of Free Agency), so your team will continue to be able to find talent at cost effective prices. Ya'll should be back to business once you find a new coach and recover from those o-line injuries. Patience.
