Pastor Creflow Dollar is asking for 60 million to purchase new G6 to spread the gospel across the gl

[gwap]

 

[dutchroyalt]

I'm interested in where you are getting all these stats and numbers.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...=2&ie=UTF-8#q=single black mothers statistics

And now its 73.8%...now im not the greatest at math but 3 outta 4 would be a majority...

http://blackdemographics.com/culture/religion/

again majority of blacks who attend church on a regular basis.... 83% of black women... 51% of black men...so.. As stated its majority black women.

And if 73.8 of that 83% are single black mothers.... well then... as i stated.

 

[dutchroyalt]

It seems like you are saying people's actions always line up with what the Bible teaches because your baby daddy example is in no way biblical. Any woman that thinks that's it's ok to do that strictly because she has Jesus as severely underestimated consequences for her own actions.

And I believe the Bible teaches that all races are to come together and function in society as well as church. Churches are the most racially segregated places on earth. When in fact, the Book of Revelation tells us thst people from every nation and tribe will worship God in heaven. So, I'm all for integeation.

The problem with blacks in America is no different than any other race in America. It starts with the break down of the family and the decline of personal responsibility, but I don't see how that is the fault of the Bible.

Any church telling it's members to sit on Their Hand And Just Simply Wait On God, is doing their members a diservice. I can personally tell you my Pastor and my church is a church that is about action particularly with our impact being focused on the family structure and community. I'may not saying there are not churches like the one you described, but my church is far from that as well as many others I know.

Let me clarify my stance... my initial statement wasnt blaming church.... i stated how has the rise of the "black church" and the fact it has expanded and grown translated to progression in blacks... Im in no way stating that the "black church" is the reason there is no progression...

lets look at some FACTS

black dropout rates..... 40-50 years ago 11.2% today 27.8%

black homeownership then 64.7%... today 42.5%

black post-secondary education graduates then 19.2% today 19.8%...(and i would hardly call that a improvement seeing that population is slightly higher... and the amount of blacks attending college doubled)

black single mothers...then 22.6% today 78.3%

Not to mention if you translate money to todays times... blacks on average earn a third more today then in the past, yet blacks in debt has tripled...

I mean i could go on and on... But i would hardly call this progression on improvement... and im not even going to go there with crime rates..

Again im not saying all this is because of the black church, what i stated is how has church helped aided or assistance in the improvement of the black community and just blacks as a whole, cause the numbers/facts show their is no improvement but moreso a regression. 

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Let me clarify my stance... my initial statement wasnt blaming church.... i stated how has the rise of the "black church" and the fact it has expanded and grown translated to progression in blacks... Im in no way stating that the "black church" is the reason there is no progression...

lets look at some FACTS

black dropout rates..... 40-50 years ago 11.2% today 27.8%
black homeownership then 64.7%... today 42.5%
black post-secondary education graduates then 19.2% today 19.8%...(and i would hardly call that a improvement seeing that population is slightly higher... and the amount of blacks attending college doubled)
black single mothers...then 22.6% today 78.3%

Not to mention if you translate money to todays times... blacks on average earn a third more today then in the past, yet blacks in debt has tripled...

I mean i could go on and on... But i would hardly call this progression on improvement... and im not even going to go there with crime rates..

Again im not saying all this is because of the black church, what i stated is how has church helped aided or assistance in the improvement of the black community and just blacks as a whole, cause the numbers/facts show their is no improvement but moreso a regression. 

But the black church is consisted of black members who are people. Most of those stats you provided are similar to one I have seen, but all of those stats are affected by personal choices and responsibilities. I'm not seeing your connection with the decline of black graduates, home ownership and the increase of single mothers with the black church.

 

[darthska]

He is the only one able to know someone's heart and intent, which is why he kills certain people outright and redeems others. But ultimately, everyone has some consequence for their actions.

So in the story of the flood, what was the condemning action of all of the children and newborns that were supposed to have been drowned? Everyone has a consequence for their actions; what was their action that required that godly consequence?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Haha, ok. I stated my interest from the beginning and I even repeated it multiple times. It's pretty clear that you wanted to focus more on the homosexuality aspect instead of the issues with using a poorly translated book. 

Once again, you could easily have shown me other scriptures that focused on your issue with different translations since you find the topic of homosexuality so distracting to the discussion, yet you haven't . I even asked you to, but you didn't. I showed you a different verse that had nothing to do with homsexuality to get away from the topic, but you didn't even acknowledge it. Which leads me to believe that you want to focus only on verses about homosexuality just like the website you provided.

 

[dutchroyalt]

But the black church is consisted of black members who are people. Most of those stats you provided are similar to one I have seen, but all of those stats are affected by personal choices and responsibilities. I'm not seeing your connection with the decline of black graduates, home ownership and the increase of single mothers with the black church.

I never stated it did... what i said was how has the church and the rise of the black church improved, progressed advanced black ppl. Many blacks say that the church is the backbone of the black community and it is the reason blacks are in the position they are in today....

Well since the rise and growth of the black church... blacks have regressed..... So if the church is good for the black community, and it improves the black community... What i am asking is how?

How has the expansion, the growth of the black church improved blacks? How has it positively affected the black community overall? In what aspects can you directly/indirectly attribute progress of blacks and the black church? 

The black church is bigger and has more members and attendees then any point in history. Far more money is invested, far more time is spent in the black church.... What again i am asking is how has this translated into something beneficial for blacks overall?

 

[blco02]

The problem with blacks in America is no different than any other race in America. It starts with the break down of the family and the decline of personal responsibility, but I don't see how that is the fault of the Bible

Finally someone gets it.

 

[mr marcus]

 

The problem with blacks in America is no different than any other race in America. It starts with the break down of the family and the decline of personal responsibility, but I don't see how that is the fault of the Bible

Finally someone gets it.

 I couldn't even drink from the same water fountain as your white *** 60 years ago so ****

the problem is white people will do w/e to keep a group as a whole from being equal .....some white people won't even let people in the bible be who they are w/o white washing them

 

[girlthatsblanco]

I never stated it did... what i said was how has the church and the rise of the black church improved, progressed advanced black ppl. Many blacks say that the church is the backbone of the black community and it is the reason blacks are in the position they are in today....

Well since the rise and growth of the black church... blacks have regressed..... So if the church is good for the black community, and it improves the black community... What i am asking is how?

How has the expansion, the growth of the black church improved blacks? How has it positively affected the black community overall? In what aspects can you directly/indirectly attribute progress of blacks and the black church? 

The black church is bigger and has more members and attendees then any point in history. Far more money is invested, far more time is spent in the black church.... What again i am asking is how has this translated into something beneficial for blacks overall?

Here is one example that I am personally involved with.

http://www.turnaroundagenda.org/

But I think the answer to your question goes back to the lack of personal responsibility and the decline of the family in America. As alarming as your stats are for African Americans, they are also alarming for other races. These aren't just black problems, but these are American problems...actually world problems.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The problem with blacks in America is no different than any other race in America. It starts with the break down of the family and the decline of personal responsibility, but I don't see how that is the fault of the Bible

Finally someone gets it.

I see none of Meth's words sunk in

 

[dutchroyalt]

Here is one example that I am personally involved with.

http://www.turnaroundagenda.org/

But I think the answer to your question goes back to the lack of personal responsibility and the decline of the family in America. As alarming as your stats are for African Americans, they are also alarming for other races. These aren't just black problems, but these are American problems...actually world problems.

All that is true.... but it still doesnt answer in what aspects has the black church improved the OVERALL conditions of blacks or progressed/advanced blacks?

All you did was make a blanket statement...ala other races have issues... which is true...still irrelevant to the question...

Your response is akin to like if an officer asked you why were you speeding, and you responding with " people speed everyday"..."Im not the only one that speeds"... "People have always sped". "Im not the first person who ever broke the speed limit".

While all that is true, it still doesnt answer the question..."why were YOU speeding" ala how has the black church helped, improved, advanced blacks overall....?

 

[dutchroyalt]

Here is one example that I am personally involved with.

http://www.turnaroundagenda.org/

But I think the answer to your question goes back to the lack of personal responsibility and the decline of the family in America. As alarming as your stats are for African Americans, they are also alarming for other races. These aren't just black problems, but these are American problems...actually world problems.

I asked how has the black church helped aided and improved the overall conditions of a.a as a whole? Your response was lack of personal responsibility. other races have issues, and all over the world there are problems...

That answer doesnt even make sense... I could see if I asked what is wrong with the black community, or what are some of the problems/issues the black community are facing. But thats not what I asked. 

I asked what is RIGHT with blacks as a people overall, and how is the black church the reason for it?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

I asked how has the black church helped aided and improved the overall conditions of a.a as a whole? Your response was lack of personal responsibility. other races have issues, and all over the world there are problems...

That answer doesnt even make sense... I could see if I asked what is wrong with the black community, or what are some of the problems/issues the black community are facing. But thats not what I asked. 

I asked what is RIGHT with blacks as a people overall, and how is the black church the reason for it?

I don't see why I or any other African American has to speak for the entire race or why any black Christian has to speak for ever black church. I don't have the answer to your question for how the overall black church has helped improve the conditions for overall blacks in America. I can only speak for my church and the works other churches that I am aware of. And if you go through the site I provided you will see the positive improvements that are being made with that organization.

Plus if their was more personal responsibility taken, the church in general wouldn't have to step in on as many issues.

Ultimately, you have identified some issues in our community, so what do you think the answer is and what are you personally doing about those issues?

 

[dutchroyalt]

I don't see why I or any other African American has to speak for the entire race or why any black Christian has to speak for ever black church. I don't have the answer to your question for how the overall black church has helped improve the conditions for overall blacks in America. I can only speak for my church and the works other churches that I am aware of. And if you go through the site I provided you will see the positive improvements that are being made with that organization.

Plus if their was more personal responsibility taken, the church in general wouldn't have to step in on as many issues.

Ultimately, you have identified some issues in our community, so what do you think the answer is and what are you personally doing about those issues?

Ok keyword you said the black church has stepped in... meaning they have contributed to blacks..... So what i am asking how so? And if so how has it been positive?

You named a isolated incident ala the website, and even that while it looks good on the surface, it is not for certain that their efforts and attempts etc... are noble and a true to heart ala like a drug dealing kingpin opening after school programs, having turkey drives for thanksgiving, having toy drives for xmas. Aint like the books are posted on the website, or a audit or full layout of how they use their funds... 501c3 etc. So all i have to go on is you word, a website, and something that looks good on the surface.

You can only speak for your church is like me saying aint nothing wrong with slinging dope, because i never went to jail and because i know a few cats who done/do it and they havent went to jail or been killed.

Also you dont have to be apart of or be connected to all things to assess whether or not its overall affects as a whole.. Aka i didnt live in every ghetto, every black community to know that the crack epidemic affected blacks nationwide. I didnt have to live/experience segregation, racism in every black area across the nation to no that prejudicism, racism and bigotry was happening to blacks nationwide. 

I dont have to attend or visit every highschool in america to know teen pregnancy is at a all-time high. I dont even live in africa but i know aids runs rampant there and it has had a negative affect on the continent as a whole. 

So by saying oh i cant say how the black church positively affects or improves blacks as a whole because you havent visited every church, or know about every church is disingenuous, and evasive to say the least, because i gave plenty of examples to combat that logic. 

 

[boris]

 

Haha, ok. I stated my interest from the beginning and I even repeated it multiple times. It's pretty clear that you wanted to focus more on the homosexuality aspect instead of the issues with using a poorly translated book. 

Once again, you could easily have shown me other scriptures that focused on your issue with different translations since you find the topic of homosexuality so distracting to the discussion, yet you haven't . I even asked you to, but you didn't. I showed you a different verse that had nothing to do with homsexuality to get away from the topic, but you didn't even acknowledge it. Which leads me to believe that you want to focus only on verses about homosexuality just like the website you provided.

But what was wrong with the verses I showed at the start? Interestingly, YOU were the one distracted by homosexuality. Let's re-visit. 

 

My conclusion is that it's difficult to know what the bible is saying even if you understand the original languages and the historical context. 

How can you say the message is the same if there are errors in the translation? You don't know what the message is if there are errors in the translation. 

Because all of them show that God has established any sex not under the umbrella of a man and woman who are married to one another is sin. Are you saying because of the information from the link you provided that homosexuality would not be outside that umbrella?

 

I'm not saying anything about homosexuality; I am interested in the fact that the English translation deviates from what the verses are (likely) saying. This is a significant error in translation that leads to misunderstanding the verses. 

How does one study the bible without significant background information? 

But your source is taking on a position and has an agenda of being in favor of homosexuality not being a sin as long as it is in the boundaries of loving relationship correct?

I think I see what the issue is. You didn't read what I said. 

Instead of addressing what the link said, you were more concerned with its "agenda" and the fact that it dealt with homosexuality. At least own up to your mistakes. 

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Ok keyword you said the black church has stepped in... meaning they have contributed to blacks..... So what i am asking how so? And if so how has it been positive?

You named a isolated incident ala the website, and even that while it looks good on the surface, it is not for certain that their efforts and attempts etc... are noble and a true to heart ala like a drug dealing kingpin opening after school programs, having turkey drives for thanksgiving, having toy drives for xmas. Aint like the books are posted on the website, or a audit or full layout of how they use their funds... 501c3 etc. So all i have to go on is you word, a website, and something that looks good on the surface.

You can only speak for your church is like me saying aint nothing wrong with slinging dope, because i never went to jail and because i know a few cats who done/do it and they havent went to jail or been killed.

Also you dont have to be apart of or be connected to all things to assess whether or not its overall affects as a whole.. Aka i didnt live in every ghetto, every black community to know that the crack epidemic affected blacks nationwide. I didnt have to live/experience segregation, racism in every black area across the nation to no that prejudicism, racism and bigotry was happening to blacks nationwide. 

I dont have to attend or visit every highschool in america to know teen pregnancy is at a all-time high. I dont even live in africa but i know aids runs rampant there and it has had a negative affect on the continent as a whole. 

So by saying oh i cant say how the black church positively affects or improves blacks as a whole because you havent visited every church, or know about every church is disingenuous, and evasive to say the least, because i gave plenty of examples to combat that logic. 

Go read your last statement. So when I tell you of all the things my church is doing you can't believe it is done geniunely because you compare us to drug dealers and want to see our books. But when I tell you I don't know what other churches do because I don't know their intentions, you have a problem.

 

[deleted]

Finally someone gets it.

Do you believe that dinosaurs lived alongside humans?

 

[blco02]

Do you believe that dinosaurs lived alongside humans?

No, but who's the dummy here? You obviously believe that wrestling is real

 

[deleted]

You got me.

I'm a dummy.

 

[HEATHEN]

Edit: lol wrong thread. This clearly isn't the walking dead thread.

Or it might as well be, becauae ya'll beating a dead horse.

 

[fontaine]

Dutchroyal in here serving boys like a tennis match.

Play on, playa...

Also... "Girl that's blanco" is a super cool name.




Any body ever notice that the agnostic, atheist, non religious crowd...

Tend to have a history in religion?

Where their parents made them go consistently or their dad was a pastor or that at one point was a hardcore believer..

 

[Jordan8]

Dutchroyal in here serving boys like a tennis match.

Play on, playa...

Also... "Girl that's blanco" is a super cool name.




Any body ever notice that the agnostic, atheist, non religious crowd...

Tend to have a history in religion?

Where their parents made them go consistently or their dad was a pastor or that at one point was a hardcore believer..

Probably because most non believers actually read the book beginning to ending. And came to the conclusion this doesn't make sense.

Most devout believers have never read the book beginning to end

 

[dutchroyalt]

Go read your last statement. So when I tell you of all the things my church is doing you can't believe it is done geniunely because you compare us to drug dealers and want to see our books. But when I tell you I don't know what other churches do because I don't know their intentions, you have a problem.

Because there isnt any proof. I never compared the two, what i said is a single isolated incident or example doesnt equate that something is good/bad. Your premise is that church/religion the bible is a good thing, but then then turn around and say oh i cant speak about church/bible religion as a whole i can only speak on my church.

So if you can only speak solely on your church etc.... how can you say religion/church/bible is a good thing as a whole? You just said the only perspective and knowledge you have is just your church, and how your preacher etc presents the bible religion to you. So how can you speak positive/negative on something overall when by your only admission, you only have knowledge of a single isolated situation.

Thats no different then lets say a white person says well i have no knowledge/experience with no other blacks, but one I work with and a few around my area... and since those experiences were bad, that means all black ppl are bad/awful etc.

Your basically trying to take bites from both sides of the apple. In one instance you wanna say religion is positive/good etc... then when i say ok prove it show how is it a good thing overall, then you wanna say oh well i can only speak from my experience, my church and you cannot speak overall and in general. 

And as far as belief and discrediting the example you mentioned... i never stated that, what i said is i dont know it to be true because you didnt provide any credence or facts or any credible information to corroborate your claims. 

Stating something doesnt validate it nor prove it to be true. You have the burden of proof. And your defense and stance conflict and contradict one another.

So how can you say the bible/religion/church as a whole is a good/bad positive/negative thing, when you stated outside of your experience, your church...your are completely ignorant and oblivious to religion/church/bible outside of your church etc... experience with religion?

 

[gwap]