Pastor Creflow Dollar is asking for 60 million to purchase new G6 to spread the gospel across the gl

[Sumrndmdude!]

 

 

 

The problem is that, I'm positive he didn't read all of them because most of them are about how money can not buy you salvation.

The problem with your problem is that you switched the subject. You said that you and him were discussing his claim that the Bible was written for a poor audience. But the very last line of the part that I quoted from you just now is switching the subject to whether or not money can buy salvation.


Can't stand when people switch topics when, "Oh yeah, good point" will do just fine.

There's even portions in the Bible where God commands thr Hebrew prople to plunder and pillage their enemies during a war.

Absolutely. Including killing all women and children, except for little virgin girls, which the god concept commands to be saved...


... for the men.


No twisting anything around. It's right in there.

God is our source.

Which is why, when you're sick, you simply do nothing, and just pray. Am I right? And then you're all better.

No.


God is your placebo. It makes you feel good feeling that something created the ENTIRE universe, but still wants a personal relationship with JUUUUUST you.


You feel better about the death of your loved ones if you feel that they are in the company of the creator of everything and everyone ever.


You need answers to mysteries of the universe, and it makes you feel better knowing that the questions aren't left unanswered; instead, for you, the answer is, "I don't know the answer. I just know it was God. That's how wonderful God is.

"


Placebo.


In truth, I doubt you're aware of ANY of the Bible verses condoning slavery, rape, or sexism.


I am. I'm sure blaster is aware, too.


But do go on about how we don't know the Bible, how we're ignorant to it's words.

A lot of this is unfair.

I don't know, this goes back to my point about sussing out an agenda. You know nothing about this man yet you projected your experience of some christians who believe in "god as a pacebo" on him, you've gone ahead and projected these condescending assumption on him without truly knowing what he believes or why he believes it. You've quickly sided with blaster oblivious to wheter or not he really knows what he claims simply because you assume him to be against the bible.


He gave context to the verses that blaster posted by makingg this remark:
"The problem is that, I'm positive he didn't read all of them because most of them are about how money can not buy you salvation."

Yet you dismissed him by saying he was "twisting it", I really see no twist or even the possibility of a twist in that statement. Maybe he was wrong in making assumptions about blaster, but at least give him credit for responding to what blaster posted...and attempt to see whether there is any cogent point in his response.

You're assuming that I know nothing about him, first off.

Second, I'm not siding with blaster; I'm supporting his rebuttal. HUGE difference.

Third, you point out how wrong it was for me to assume, then say "Maybe he was wrong in making assumptions about blaster." Inconsistent, at best. This leads me to believe your issue isn't with unfairness, but with my stance.

1. If you know more about him than I assumed color me wrong. and I pologze for making that assumption.

2. Pardon my no specifically stating that you sided with his "rebuttall"...but my general point was understood I see.

3. I apologize for not being absolute in stating whether he was "completely" wrong in the way he addresed blaster (I'm trying to live up to point 1. without dealing in absoluts)

 

[blastercombo]

You guys aren't mad that I'm quite the bible, your just mad I got it off the Internet? Does it change what it says? Should I post actual pics of the bible? What words did I twist?


What's funny is Yall would rather argue about the problem and not GIVE the solution. Again, quote the bible when you do please.


And thanks for assuming I know nothing about Christianity. That really helps your argument while Yall proceed the counter argument of saying nothing

 

[Sumrndmdude!]

 

 

 

I was talking vaguely. Clearly, you're referencing something specific. For the sake of clarity, give me a specific you're referencing.

i Edited my earlier remark providing the example.

 

[blastercombo]

but you arent quoting the bible you are quoting a variation, rendition of a book. So tbh its not quoting...... its like using hearsay, from someone who heard from someone who based things on what they think/believe was said....

Again like i said why does religion get a pass.... hell we dont even give news reporters/casters this leeway about frivolous, unimportant stories... yet we just overlook something as so called important as religion.... ish is comical to say the least. 

Different argument, but the bible has been edited countless times. The Wikipedia of religious text. If you want to be real AS IS its not even a respectable source. But again, another argument....

 

[John00]

 
You gotta be a special kind of gullible to listen to and willfully give money to a man whose last name is dollar.

THIS!!!!

Dude has been all about the cash for years. He's not about the church.

 

[edshoecator]

Not sure if you guys know this but @DarthSka  used to be heavy in the church so don't be offended when he ethers your rhetoric.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

The problem with your problem is that you switched the subject. You said that you and him were discussing his claim that the Bible was written for a poor audience. But the very last line of the part that I quoted from you just now is switching the subject to whether or not money can buy salvation.

Can't stand when people switch topics when, "Oh yeah, good point" will do just fine.
Absolutely. Including killing all women and children, except for little virgin girls, which the god concept commands to be saved...

... for the men.

No twisting anything around. It's right in there.
Which is why, when you're sick, you simply do nothing, and just pray. Am I right? And then you're all better.

No.

God is your placebo. It makes you feel good feeling that something created the ENTIRE universe, but still wants a personal relationship with JUUUUUST you.

You feel better about the death of your loved ones if you feel that they are in the company of the creator of everything and everyone ever.

You need answers to mysteries of the universe, and it makes you feel better knowing that the questions aren't left unanswered; instead, for you, the answer is, "I don't know the answer. I just know it was God. That's how wonderful God is. "

Placebo.

In truth, I doubt you're aware of ANY of the Bible verses condoning slavery, rape, or sexism.

I am. I'm sure blaster is aware, too.

But do go on about how we don't know the Bible, how we're ignorant to it's words.

Switched the conversation? Naw bruh. I was simply showing how the verses he stated didn't support his claim. If you go back you will see where I already addressed his claim that most of the characters in the Bible are poor was refuted with characters in the Bible who were not poor. That was actually my first statement. Why would I harp on something that was already addressed and proved to be false? The 9 examples given by YvesSentYoRent were sufficient. But the Bible teaches that salvation is for all people. So, the intended audience human beings.

But back to me switching the subject. I was trying to explain the verses that were posted because Blastercombo posted scriptures that didn't support his claim. My goal was to explain something to him that he didn't understand. So in fact I was staying on subject.

Your assumptions of my beliefs and relationship with God have no basis because none of those assumptions are Biblical. When I'm sick I just don't pray. The Bible doesn't teach that. I go to the doctor and get treatment and medicine. I also don't believe that God wants to have a relationship with JUUUUUST me. The Bible doesn't teach that either. God wants to have a relationship with every person. I also don't believe that all my loved ones are with God and everyone ever created. The Bible doesn't teach that. I believe only the people who have accepted Christ as their Savior will go to heaven, so that doesn't include everyone ever. These are the claims you made, yet none of them are my beliefs nor are any of your claims supported in the Bible. So, I'm not sure where you got these assumptions and claims, but I know where you didn't get them. So please, don't put your words on me. Because everything you said about my beliefs are simply just not the truth. At all.
Hopefully this isn't seen as me switching the topic because I know you can't stand that, but I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm just clearing up yours and others poor claims of what is in the text. I'm also interested in hearing about the Bible's verses you and Blastercombo know, that you say I am unaware of where slavery, rape and sexism is condoned. I may know them. I may not, but I did just go through a pretty extensive Bible study of Pentateuch where those things are addressed. Either way I'm open to learning new things.

 

[fontaine]

Lol.

2.4% of America calls them self an atheist....

But its even...



Foh

 

[blastercombo]

If there are multiple exceptions to your original premise, it means that your premise is either wrong or has to be qualified.

You neither qualified it or made allowance for it being wrong.

Again your rebuttal has even more errors. But you don't care because you want to be right, when you can't eem be right because you've completely underestimated the discussion.

NO, that's not how it works. What errors? You submit a list of names and NONE of their stories.

Off the top of my head job was rich but what happened to him? God took everything away from him, money, health, land, ect. Then what happened? Job had to submit himself to God and obey before he was "blessed" again. What's key here? Job, who is now poor, sick, depressed, ect, now has to serve God and THEN was blessed with MONEY. You didn't say any of that though Did you? Nope, just dropped the name.

Off all the people with money what did God teach them? That material posessions were worthless. Of all thoughs with knowledge what did God teach them? That all of the knowledge in the world doesn't matter if you don't serve God and know him. Of thoughs with land and kingdoms with did God tell them? That when Jesus returns it will all burn and do nothing for them.

Again you left all that out.


I then tell you that in comparison the amount of NATIONS of people who lived under poverty completely out numbers thoughs who were rich makes your argument void. You didn't say anything about that too. Heck, look at gods chosen people of that time. They were enslaved.


But you'll gloss over all that and keep telling me that I'm wrong just because.

 

[blastercombo]

Switched the conversation? Naw bruh. I was simply showing how the verses he stated didn't support his claim. If you go back you will see where I already addressed his claim that most of the characters in the Bible are poor was refuted with characters in the Bible who were not poor. That was actually my first statement. Why would I harp on something that was already addressed and proved to be false? The 9 examples given by YvesSentYoRent were sufficient. But the Bible teaches that salvation is for all people. So, the intended audience human beings.

But back to me switching the subject. I was trying to explain the verses that were posted because Blastercombo posted scriptures that didn't support his claim. My goal was to explain something to him that he didn't understand. So in fact I was staying on subject.

Your assumptions of my beliefs and relationship with God have no basis because none of those assumptions are Biblical. When I'm sick I just don't pray. The Bible doesn't teach that. I go to the doctor and get treatment and medicine. I also don't believe that God wants to have a relationship with JUUUUUST me. The Bible doesn't teach that either. God wants to have a relationship with every person. I also don't believe that all my loved ones are with God and everyone ever created. The Bible doesn't teach that. I believe only the people who have accepted Christ as their Savior will go to heaven, so that doesn't include everyone ever. These are the claims you made, yet none of them are my beliefs nor are any of your claims supported in the Bible. So, I'm not sure where you got these assumptions and claims, but I know where you didn't get them. So please, don't put your words on me. Because everything you said about my beliefs are simply just not the truth. At all.
Hopefully this isn't seen as me switching the topic because I know you can't stand that, but I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm just clearing up yours and others poor claims of what is in the text. I'm also interested in hearing about the Bible's verses you and Blastercombo know, that you say I am unaware of where slavery, rape and sexism is condoned. I may know them. I may not, but I did just go through a pretty extensive Bible study of Pentateuch where those things are addressed. Either way I'm open to learning new things.

I took passages that didn't support my claim? Next time you go to bible study and your minister reads a verse to support a statment ask him to read pages prior to that verse being read. You'll figure out that their "supporting" verse is read out of context.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

I took passages that didn't support my claim? Next time you go to bible study and your minister reads a verse to support a statment ask him to read pages prior to that verse being read. You'll figure out that their "supporting" verse is read out of context.

Actually reading the pages prior to a particular verse would give contexT which is always encouraged. That's how books work. And I'm not mad you are using the Internet to quote scriptures. My issue is the scriptures you quoted previously didn't support your claim of the Bible being for a poor audience. Which is why I assumed you didn't even read the verses you posted or the surrounding verses because many of thrm didn't even pertain to the claim you made. I also said that if anyone is going to a biased website for or against the Bible they can be mislead by those sites because a lot of them only post one verse and connect it to another verse to support whatever claim I'd being made. Perspective and context is always needed when reading the Bible like most books.

 

[Based Jesus]

Lol.

2.4% of America calls them self an atheist....

But its even...

Foh

Only 2.4%? It feels like it should be more than that

 

[darthska]

Right off the bat, I see a few examples of, "I don't believe such and such, because the Bible doesn't say that," then I read, "I believe only the people who have accepted Christ as their Savior will go to heaven."

So naturally I'm curious: are you aware of whether or not the Bible says that?

Again, just curious.

Also, saying "The Bible doesn't teach that" sets the tone that what the Bible DOES teach is very important.

So another question: do you follow the Bible literally? If it says it, do you abide by it?

Last question for this reply: if there are Biblical rules for something, could it be assumed that the Bible supports it? If there were rules for Dodgeball in the Bible, could it be assumed that the Bible condones dodgeball? If it didn't, it would renounce dodgeball, no? If there are Biblical rules for something, could it be assumed that the Bible supports it?

 

[darthska]

Lol.

2.4% of America calls them self an atheist....

But its even...



Foh

What was this in response to, if you don't mind?

 

[darthska]

Lol.


2.4% of America calls them self an atheist....


But its even...




Foh

Only 2.4%? It feels like it should be more than that

Depending on how one wanted to present the argument, they could use a number as low as 2% or as high as 76%, and be accurate either way.

Specific 'atheism' is a thing, but so are 'non religious' and 'irreligious', which both count as different tallies in a religious census.

In 1910, the recorded percentage of atheists in America was 0%.

Bottom line: TONS of people in America are wisening up, no matter how much of an attempt there is to minimize what's going on.

 

[blastercombo]

Actually reading the pages prior to a particular verse would give contexT which is always encouraged. That's how books work. And I'm not mad you are using the Internet to quote scriptures. My issue is the scriptures you quoted previously didn't support your claim of the Bible being for a poor audience. Which is why I assumed you didn't even read the verses you posted or the surrounding verses because many of thrm didn't even pertain to the claim you made. I also said that if anyone is going to a biased website for or against the Bible they can be mislead by those sites because a lot of them only post one verse and connect it to another verse to support whatever claim I'd being made. Perspective and context is always needed when reading the Bible like most books.

First off let me say this. I don't take ANY of this personal. I'm not here to disrespect anyone. I don't have any ill feelings towards anyone personally. I know with discussions like this things sound very personal but it just goes with the territory. Even in the other thread durty raspberry and I go at it hard but never do personally attack each other and such.

Ok, now

How did it not? The bible teaches that money is nothing and that not having tends to lead to a better relationship with God. It also teaches that people with money have a tendency to value their material posessions over God.

the verses I took were meant to emphasize that idea

 

[sea manup]

a lot of text that i dont feel like reading but you guys should listen to darthska. he seems like a wise fellow and went to grade school with jesus

 

[darthska]

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Right off the bat, I see a few examples of, "I don't believe such and such, because the Bible doesn't say that," then I read, "I believe only the people who have accepted Christ as their Savior will go to heaven."

So naturally I'm curious: are you aware of whether or not the Bible says that?

Again, just curious.

Also, saying "The Bible doesn't teach that" sets the tone that what the Bible DOES teach is very important.

So another question: do you follow the Bible literally? If it says it, do you abide by it?

Last question for this reply: if there are Biblical rules for something, could it be assumed that the Bible supports it? If there were rules for Dodgeball in the Bible, could it be assumed that the Bible condones dodgeball? If it didn't, it would renounce dodgeball, no? If there are Biblical rules for something, could it be assumed that the Bible supports it?

My beliefs come from the Bible. I am constantly reading and understanding it everyday to gain a deeper relationship of who God is. I believe the Bible is a revelation of who God partially is. He is evetlasting so it will take an eternity to fully know him. The Bible is just a highlight reel of him through time. I do feel confident in what the Bible says on the subject of salvation and heaven. It teaches salvation is a free gift for everyone, but only those who want to accept it will enter into heaven . God has rescued us through Christ (John 3:17). Specifically, it was Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7). Scripture is clear that salvation is the gracious, undeserved gift of God (Ephesians 2:5 - and is only available through faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12; John 14:6).


Yes, I take the Bible literally except for the portions that are meant to be symbolic. Like we are not litterally apples in God's eye in Psalms 17:8. I do believe the events that are written about in the Bible did actually occur.


Your last question is difficult to answer because I need a specific example of what you are trying to ask. Like there were specific rules in the Old Testament for animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin. Yet, this was done before Christ came in the New Testament and we no longer need the symbol of animal sacrifice when we now have the substance of sacrifice for sin in Jesus. So, even though there are specific rules for animal sacrifice, the Bible doesn't condone it now because now the whole revelation has been revealed for the forgiveness of sin.

 

[fontaine]

What was this in response to, if you don't mind?

Atheist =\= non religious...

You can be spiritual, agnostic, etc...


But that was in. Response to this

It cuts both ways, for every "I don't know God will figure it out" Christian you have as many "Google copy paste" atheist bible scholars. I think the best way to really filter people's argument is appreciating their agenda eem before engaging.

As an example and case in point what some people are really mad about is whether or not dinosaurs existed 2000 years ago. What would be the point in dieting misinterpretationso of Scripture if what you're really mad about is dinosaurs.

Ain't no way in hell that the number of atheists is even close to the number of religious people...

 

[sea manup]

to be fair most hardcore religious people dont know how to use computers

atheists (the young generation) run the internet 

 

[boris]

 

Just curious, do you understand the original languages of the Bible? Or do you study the English translations of the Bible?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

First off let me say this. I don't take ANY of this personal. I'm not here to disrespect anyone. I don't have any ill feelings towards anyone personally. I know with discussions like this things sound very personal but it just goes with the territory. Even in the other thread durty raspberry and I go at it hard but never do personally attack each other and such.

Ok, now

How did it not? The bible teaches that money is nothing and that not having tends to lead to a better relationship with God. It also teaches that people with money have a tendency to value their material posessions over God.

the verses I took were meant to emphasize that idea

And I'm right with you on your view of respect. And yes you are correct about the Bible's view of money except the part about it being worthless. God knows we need money to operate in this world. The gospel is free, but ministry cost money. Electricity for the church cost money. Missions cost money. Food pantries cost money. Hospitals cost money. You get the point though. Where I disagree is that the verses you used don't support your argument of the Bible is intended for just a poor audience. The Bible is intended for all people from all walks of life. The verse ls you posted were meant to show us that no matter what or how much you have, there is only satisfaction in knowing God. The book of Ecclesiastes touches on this and it was written by one of the richest men of all time, Solomon. He basically says that with everything he owned and bought it never fully pleased him. That's like most people, but time and time again people find out money can't buy you true happiness. Only a relationship with God can. That is what the verses you posted conveyed. It didn't say that you gotta be poor to have a relationship with God, but having wealth and status doesn't add to your relationship with God like it does with people. He loves us for who we are, not what we have. Sometimes people act a certain way or big themselves up strictly because of what they have which has zero to do with who they are.

 

[darthska]

So you take the Bible literally, except in the event it's talking symbolically.

Of course the convenient part there is that anything can be dismissed as symbolic, but I'll run with that.

Literal except when symbolic. Got it.

Your thoughts, please:
I Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

You'll notice this is not in the OT. It's popular for people to dismiss the OT as something that doesn't count anymore, because Jesus. But this is a NT verse, by the most prominent author of the NT.

I'm sure you want context... as if there's a proper context for a saint to proclaim that he doesn't permit women to speak:
Paul is giving instructions for how worship services are to take place. He states that women are to learn in quiet submission, because Adam was created first.

That.

Is utterly.

Reprehensible.

Next, I'm going to go to the OT, but not on anything that disrupts Jesus' proclaimed new way:
Deuteronomy 22:28,29
(2 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, (29) he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

If a man RAPES A VIRGIN, his 'punishment' is that he must pay the father (because the FATHER was wronged), and he must now stay in a committed marriage to the woman he raped. Nevermind whether or not she wants to marry her rapist; she has no say.

There is no symbolism there.

The people who jotted those rules down are the same people who jotted down so many other rules that are being blindly followed.

And that's my main problem with religiously following something on faith and faith alone. Instead of critically reading something that doesn't make sense and thinking, "Wait, I don't knew about this one. That doesn't make sense," the blind religious think, "Well, that doesn't make much sense to me... ...

... ... so I guess I need to adjust my thinking until it does make sense."

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Just curious, do you understand the original languages of the Bible? Or do you study the English translations of the Bible?

I study the English versions because that is the only language I am fluent in, but have Greek and Hebrew dictionaries to help with the meaning of some words. I believe the Bible has been translated into about 500 different languages. Plus with the the growth of technology, there is translation software to test a specific language version vs. the original Greek and Hebrew writing.