Thank you for your response. In regards to hip hop, I'm just not seeing it. Between his videos or his concerts........especially his concerts. None of his videos IMO were ground breaking or even reviewed or seen in a high light. When you think of powerful hip hop videos within the past 10 years I honestly can't think of one Kanye West video that comes to mind, that's just me though.
As far as his concerts or performances go. I think it's more so people idolizing the person rather than the actual performance or art. For example, people on this board love to hype up that Glow in the Dark Tour, and I was there near the front row when he came to Virginia and performed and it was good for what it was but once again, nothing ground breaking or moving about that concert at all. I say that with all due respect as I have been to many different concerts from many different genres and Glow in the Dark certainly was nothing new for me, it might have been for folks that have never been to a concert before, so I can see why those folks have such love for it as it was their first but that's about it. The person who truly should and deserves high praise and credit for videos, concerts, and performances is Michael Jackson. Now's that an artist that truly was/is considered the best at what he did and changed all of those aspects, even in and for today's world.
As for your ending statement, besides fans who considers Kanye West one of the best in today's world??
Piss poor response champ. So all your saying is because Kanye has a large FANBASE, that makes him the best in today's world?? No outside entities, no other professional artists, no nothing. The only people that stake that claim are a bunch of snot-noised kids that band together as a cohesive unit on a message board. That statement from you certainly doesn't help the cause for Kanye West champ, not at all.
Also, you are wrong regarding your comment about Nas and Jay. Personally, I'm a Nas fan and would and do call Jay the best rapper. Try again.
As far as hiphop goes if we are talking Videos & Concerts I find it hard to believe that there is many in the same realm as West as far as those categories go.
Now when you expand it to music in general it's arguable because i haven't experienced plenty of other genre's live or saw all the videos. However it's very rare that anyone has saw everything so i could only base my opinion on his ranking based off consensus of opinions. I have never heard anyone say Kanye had a terrible performance.
More importantly i take notice to what his peers and people who know the ins and outs and spend there life doing this have to say about his art and it's usually held in high regards from all sides
Which goes exactly to my point that I was raising earlier about a good portion of Kanye's fansbase. Alot of you dudes have not experienced other lives show or performances from other artists or even other genre's. With that being said, I can see how and why you dudes are head over heels regarding Kanye and how "dope" you think his performances are.
Also, there's a difference between having a terrible performance and being an agent of change which alot of you dudes say that Kanye is. There is something in the middle of all of that, which I do believe he is in, somewhere in the middle more or less.
you don't get out in the real world much if you think Ye's fan base consist of members of Hypebeast and ISS...there's a reason he's a worldwide star, not because people think he's wack...
I never said he was wack or tried to insinuate that he was wack. There is a middle ground you know.
Kanye's the best in the world because he produces more quality material than anybody else...his discography is among the greatest in hip hop, the majority will let you know that...if you want outside entities, look at the critics...if you wan't other artist, ask Jay and Drake...don't be silly, kid...
You can't be serious with this right here champ...........can't be. For starters Kanye's discography is NOT among the greatest in hip hop, and real hip hop fans will tell you as such. Not even Top 5 or even up for debate. Now when I say "real hip hop fans" I mean people that actually know and have studied the history of hip hop. Those that know hip hop didn't just start when Kanye West appeared on the scene. For those of us that have seen hip hop from it's early stages or have at least studied it or researched and have knowledge.
my Jay and Nas comparison was worded wrong, admittedly..
Now see champ I can say an inflammatory comment towards you like you did towards me given you admitting that your wording was incorrect, but I'm going to be the bigger person and actually give you a pass if you can believe that or not. So now you see that maturity level that it takes for an individual like me to deal with an individual such as yourself. I'll just give you a pat on the back and say let's not have that happen again.................."my man"
This is sticking solely to hip-hop performances...... I have seen enough of the major players perform what Ye does set & concept wise is ABSOLUTELY innovative in the hiphop world.... i'm not arguing if he's the best that's opinion, the facts are that there are FEW people in hiphop who add the details and work to there live performances that Ye does
That coachella Performance he had a few years back was something that i haven't saw from any other rap artist and quite frankly it was damn near consensus that he had the best performance of the night.
it's all about influence, son...you can't try to discredit Ye by saying he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if it weren't for Pharrell and not mention that ****** like Drake wouldn't be doing what they're doing if it wasn't for Ye...
Ye has cultural impact, i don't even know how you cats can argue against it...
I'm not trying to discredit Ye, even if I come off a little harsh, its just the dude hasn't really opened up any real lanes. He's taken lanes and brought them to a new audience, but as far as him creating something we haven't seen, the dude hasn't done it.
Its one thing to be a cultural impact, but sometimes his fans and even Ye himself try to make it seem like he's brought something new to the table. Dude talks so much about changing the world, and how he wants to do this and that, but really, outside of fashion trends and music, what has dude done? He hasn't done anything to change peoples lives on a day to day basis. He talks so much about Steve Jobs and how he wants to impact the world like Steve, but he cries and ******* about it so much. I understand the guy has impacted pop culture, but take a step back and look at it from the grand scheme of things. Pop culture =/= the world and how the world works. Kanye wants to change the world with a pair of Nike's and some jeans, and thats a good start, cool. But these rants and cries out aren't going to make people look at him and say "hey, lets give him the money to TRY to change the world". Its like his whole approach is wrong man.
I get what he wants to do, but when I think about it I wonder, is this fool really trying to change the world? Or the world he's into?
We all must have VASTLY different definitions of "cultural leader"
Or of "leader". Because doing what for the most part Pharrell did before you, which NO ONE in here has disagreed with, doesn't make you a leader...
In fact.....
If you said "trendsetter" and left it at that, you probably wouldn't even get much argument from me.
Look at the difference between the way Jay conducts interviews and the way Kanye does. And you'll see some of the characteristics that define a leader.
I don't understand how Pharrell is getting brought into this discussion? With all do respect, Pharrell is not in anyway shape or form close to as big as an influence as Kanye is sonically, culturally, at all. And if you want to talk sonically, people need to stop talking about Pharrell as an individual, and need to reference the Neptunes, Chad deserves just as much credit. But IMO, what Kanye has accomplished is levels above what either Pharrell or Chad has done and it's not even close.
If you want to talk culturally, Pharrell was never the guy to break boundaries and redefine things. He came into the industry as an "alternative" artist. He was never a pure hip hop artist. He was a co-producer with a partner who was musically gifted (Chad) who sang in a rock band (N*E*R*D.) When he came out in the late 90's and early 2000's, his style was no different than Fred Durst style, so just because he's black he becomes a trendsetter? Pharrell isn't the first black artist to dress like Fred Durst or embrace the skate culture. I don't see anything culturally groundbreaking there.
When I think of cultural trendsetters I think of Kanye. His style, his VULNERABILITY. Kanye was the first artist brave enough to be 100% vulnerable. There would be no DRAKE if there wasn't a Kanye. When I think of cultural trendsetters, another person I think of is Cam. Cam'ron and that whole dipset movement redefined the way people dressed and acted. That whole "swag" movement today, these kids idolized Cam and Cam was really one of the first to bring that whole attitude to the commercial mainstream.
Pharrell was Kanye BEFORE Kanye. Just cause he wasn't running around screaming "Look at me, I'm doing something" doesn't mean he wasn't doing it. The dude was the backbone of Justin Timberlake, Brittiney Spears, Nelly, Various hip hop acts, movie scores, etc. FOR YEARS...
The hell you talking about. Pharrell has done **** Kanye STILL hasn't done. Holla at me when Kanye makes furniture. Does an entire movie score. Come back when Kanye has a full clothing line. Because its something he's crying over so badly right now. Kanye wants to "push" so many boundaries right now, when people forget that Pharrell had his own sneakers and clothing line years ago. With no huge corporate backing. But Kanye is begging for it. Son was basically on his knee's in the interview, "please someone give me money to make clothes!"
If there was no Pharrell, there would be no Kanye. Straight up. Deny all you want.
Being a real artist isn't about crying and wearing your vulnerability on your sleeve at all times.
Kanye is cool. But some people try to make him more than what he is. He's a rapper who has a great team to bounce ideas off of, who can dress really well, and wants to start his own clothing line. Name 1 thing son has done outside of music that Pharrell, Swizz Beatz, Just Blaze, or someone else hasn't done. He's just the most popular right now...
This is what happens when ****** take **** outside of music
Kanye scored Mission Impossible 3 four years before Pharrell did Despicable Me. I think they only ended up using 2 or so of the songs Ye did for them on the soundtrack, but one of them was the new theme for the movie.
Kanye has also designed furniture. And HAD a clothing line. It just failed because it was more "high end" than what Pharrell did with Ice Cream/BBC and no one was ******g with it at fashion week or for that price point.
And Kanye's Yeezy's are way more respected than pharrells "skate shoes". Hence the
movement of many years ago. It's kind of why Pharrell stopped pretending he was young and down.
As fa as music, that's LARGELY Chad. Pharrell is just the more handsome face of the outfit.
I get your point... it's just not really accurate. Kanye WOULD exist without Pharrell. The parallels you're drawing aren't unique to either of them.
Kanye is considered more influential than all the people you named because he's a million times more successful as a solo artist than any of them could ever be. If what he does is so easy, why have none of them done it?
it's all about influence, son...you can't try to discredit Ye by saying he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if it weren't for Pharrell and not mention that ****** like Drake wouldn't be doing what they're doing if it wasn't for Ye...
Ye has cultural impact, i don't even know how you cats can argue against it...
I see what you're saying, yeah Ye would exist. I just feel like the reason Kanye has so many outlets to touch on now is because Pharrell warmed that seat up for him before he went low-key. As far as music goes, Kanye has never sounded like P, ever. On a music level, they're in 2 different worlds.
But as far as fashion, its really evident the tracks P left were followed by Ye. And thats cool, its great, and I really want to see Kanye succeed. I just wish he'd stop talking out his *** sometimes. Its like, Pharrell does a deal/has a situation with Chanel and Louis Vuitton. Gets a Reebok Sneaker, and a full clothing line years ago. Its cool. P is doing his thing and people talk about it, but nobody calls him this revolutionary. The dude changed the structure of hip hop sound and pop fashion. He brought Japan to america, and made the geek a cool guy. From Murakami and Nigo to Skateboarding and bright colors. P was the attention of the time, but nobody really called him a revolutionary, or a world changer. But Kanye does it some odd number of years later, and people say P didn't do it on his level because Kanye is a bigger solo artist? That just doesn't make much sense to me. It still doesn't change the fact that he did it. Feel me?
Kanye even said in an interview somewhere that he wanted to meet P so bad because of his style. Kanye knew how cool Pharrell was already. He took notes and studied the game before attempting to take it over. I respect that though.
But...
Sometimes it just feels like Kanye will say something, and people will back it up, just because. Not saying that people aren't entitled to their opinions, because they are. And not to say that they might not agree with him, because they might. But Watching the interview, there were parts that made me laugh, parts that made me say "Yeah, he's right" and parts that made me shake my head.
I really don't feel like at this moment Kanye is the biggest "Rock Star" on the planet. Two years ago? Yeah, maybe. But right now? I see Eminem an Justin Timberlake shows outselling his... Easy... But you'd have people who beg to differ, why? Because Kanye said he's the biggest, so it must be true by their logic. Yeah its good for Kanye to have that ego, and thats always been his thing. Its always been the thing to make people (myself included) gravitate towards him.
You put me on to some knowledge though. I didn't know Ye' did MI3 or that he already had furniture. When I google info about the furniture he's done, I didn't get any results, but I'll take your word for it.
Although, I wouldn't call Kaye more successful than Pharrell, I undoubtably would say he's done much better for himself as a solo artist than him. Just and Swizz as well. But Just and Swizz have been doing movie scores, video games, cartoons, etc. These aren't lanes Kanye's making, and thats ultimately my point. Kanye hasn't really done anything better than anyone outside of make hip hop music.
I just don't like when people say someone's done so many amazing things, and build them up like we haven't seen it before. Yeah, Ye is doing his thing, and I respect it. Even though I didn't really like the last album, I respect it and I appreciate it for what it is and the boundaries he's pushing for himself. But he's not really pushing any boundaries for culture, at least not by himself. So I don't like when people try to single him out like Pharrell and a gang of other people before him haven't already set this up for him to carry on with.
As an artist, Kanye is one of my favorites, but I always have to be critical. I don't know why man, but I just have to
Kanye has done a lot for the culture, but he just hasn't done anything we haven't seen. He's taken things we have seen to new levels, and brought them to new audiences. Changing an aspect of a culture, and creating new culture are two different things. I feel like Kanye wants to do something, but he's being given credit for doing it already.
Its all good though. We just see things from different angles sometimes
This is sticking solely to hip-hop performances...... I have seen enough of the major players perform what Ye does set & concept wise is ABSOLUTELY innovative in the hiphop world.... i'm not arguing if he's the best that's opinion, the facts are that there are FEW people in hiphop who add the details and work to there live performances that Ye does
That coachella Performance he had a few years back was something that i haven't saw from any other rap artist and quite frankly it was damn near consensus that he had the best performance of the night.
I'm not trying to discredit Ye, even if I come off a little harsh, its just the dude hasn't really opened up any real lanes. He's taken lanes and brought them to a new audience, but as far as him creating something we haven't seen, the dude hasn't done it.
Its one thing to be a cultural impact, but sometimes his fans and even Ye himself try to make it seem like he's brought something new to the table. Dude talks so much about changing the world, and how he wants to do this and that, but really, outside of fashion trends and music, what has dude done? He hasn't done anything to change peoples lives on a day to day basis. He talks so much about Steve Jobs and how he wants to impact the world like Steve, but he cries and ******* about it so much. I understand the guy has impacted pop culture, but take a step back and look at it from the grand scheme of things. Pop culture =/= the world and how the world works. Kanye wants to change the world with a pair of Nike's and some jeans, and thats a good start, cool. But these rants and cries out aren't going to make people look at him and say "hey, lets give him the money to TRY to change the world". Its like his whole approach is wrong man.
I get what he wants to do, but when I think about it I wonder, is this fool really trying to change the world? Or the world he's into?
Kanye has done a lot for the culture, but he just hasn't done anything we haven't seen. He's taken things we have seen to new levels, and brought them to new audiences. Changing an aspect of a culture, and creating new culture are two different things. I feel like Kanye wants to do something, but he's being given credit for doing it already.
I get your point but i think alot is being lost in translation.
If your able to take something that has been done and take it to another level and leave your own mark on it then you are a leader of that culture. That is what i am arguing he is a cultural leader/ changer. We are pointing out things in pop culture yes but those things are VASTLY important especially in today's world where pop culture influences more humans than ever.
If you take a look back and just look at the dynamic of the youth today, i hear it all the time from the older generations speaking about today. These kids aren't tough, they are soft, couldn't last in the 80's etc etc. that is the strong influence of young kids changing there mindset and opening up to things that are outside of the hood. Kanye hasn't been the only one but over the past 10 years he's been the most visible & certainly the most vocal about being yourself and always promotes the arts and creativity.
There was a point where a kid from the hood would be embarrassed to say i'm going to a museum, i enjoy fashion shows out of fear of not fitting a cutout of what was authentic. what i am saying is that he helped spearhead that movement and because of his willingness to be over the top it has had an impact on the way young black men view themselves in today's society.
so no he didn't create the lane, however he did enter it brought it to new heights and incorporated his ideals and views into it.
Rather than give you a list of specifics you tell me how many shows you have seen from an hiphop artist that is on par wit Kanye's from a overall standpoint.
Rather than give you a list of specifics you tell me how many shows you have seen from an hiphop artist that is on par wit Kanye's from a overall standpoint.
If you can first give me a list of specifics since you said vehemently "ABSOLUTELY innovative in the hip hop world" I would appreciate it. Afterwards, I will gladly answer your question.
From my perspective Pharrell's fashion ventures were a failure.
Remember these? As far as I'm concerned these are hideous and were a complete failure.
Pharrell came into the scene as a good looking black dude, with an incredibly talented musical partner (Chad Hugo) who caught people's attention because he was this handsome black dude who wore skate clothes and looked like Fred Durst. People completely discredited Chad's input because he was never in the limelight and completely assumed Pharrell was this genius. As a solo producer I just don't put him in the same space as legends like Timbaland or Kanye. Pharrell is a pretty basic producer by himself, but he sounds great when someone cleans up his stuff whether it's Chad or his latest smash single when he sings over a track Daft Punk wrote and produced. Pharrell by himself sounds like this. This **** was terrible.
Being black and wearing skate clothes does not make you an icon. There were black skaters in the 80's and 90's who were legends within that skate scene. Pharrell was just the first guy to wear a Spitfire shirt in a rap video, but there was nothing revolutionary about that. Don't get me wrong, dude dresses well, and I'm sure is a cool guy, but he is not an icon.
Kanye is the type of artist to put it all on the line for what he believes in. He's the kind of guy to take a PAYCUT in concert revenues for the benefit of the show. To the people that have been saying the Glow in The Dark Tour wasn't that impressive, what other show in Hip Hop was close to it? Sure, he may not rap the technically BEST lines during the concert, but there is no other rap artist that has put on a SHOW as epic as that tour where the performed put his everything in the show to make sure that you had an amazing experience. People who weren't even "Real Hip Hop Heads" who went to that show were amazed, because passion, dedication and vulnerability is respected and admired universally.
I think we are looking at this from different angles. I'm not in here to argue that "Kanye MADE LEATHER PANTS COOL!!!!" I honestly don't care for that. I personally would never be caught dead wearing leather jogging pants. People want to base an artists career on how many "trends" he started got it all wrong. I'm more in admiration of how Kanye's career influenced the behavior of artists today and artists in the future to do better and hold themselves to a higher standard.
I ask this why can't Kanye do what the dude from Gourmet did .He just started a Luxuury brand all by himself and got it into boutiques .Homie making leather skateboards and 800 dollar shoes bags etc .Yet kanye who got infinitely more money than dude can't do the same .Im calling bs.
You can't be serious with this right here champ...........can't be. For starters Kanye's discography is NOT among the greatest in hip hop, and real hip hop fans will tell you as such. Not even Top 5 or even up for debate. Now when I say "real hip hop fans" I mean people that actually know and have studied the history of hip hop. Those that know hip hop didn't just start when Kanye West appeared on the scene. For those of us that have seen hip hop from it's early stages or have at least studied it or researched and have knowledge.
Now see champ I can say an inflammatory comment towards you like you did towards me given you admitting that your wording was incorrect, but I'm going to be the bigger person and actually give you a pass if you can believe that or not. So now you see that maturity level that it takes for an individual like me to deal with an individual such as yourself. I'll just give you a pat on the back and say let's not have that happen again.................."my man" .
Kanye has one of the most celebrated discographies in music...when people mention Jay or Nas, theres 2-3 albums that come up in their best album discussion..all of Ye's get mentioned...outlets have even called Yeezus his best album to date...nobody cares about your "real hip hop" tag...Ye is far beyond hip hop...
...and trying to be the mature person in a situation and then bragging about it is, ironically, on par with some Kanye ****...doesn't really speak on your maturity if you have to let everyone know you're being mature ,"champ"...
Kanye has one of the most celebrated discographies in music...when people mention Jay or Nas, theres 2-3 albums that come up in their best album discussion..all of Ye's get mentioned...outlets have even called Yeezus his best album to date...nobody cares about your "real hip hop" tag...Ye is far beyond hip hop...
...and trying to be the mature person in a situation and then bragging about it is, ironically, on par with some Kanye ****...doesn't really speak on your maturity if you have to let everyone know you're being mature ,"champ"...
I mean, let's not discredit Pharrell here just to big up Ye
Pharrell IS a hip-hop (and to a larger degree, style) cultural icon. He and Kanye can coexist in this universe. One being a culturally influential leader doesn't mean the other isn't.
The only reason people are even fighting over the two in this thread is because they both occupied a lane that involved doing what was considered "White people stuff" like skating, wearing polos, hooking up with blonde super models, and being intrigued by the Japanese.
Outside of that, there isn't much different between them and Swizz, and a bunch of the other big super producers/artists/fashion interested musicians of the early aughts.
Those are just the two-three biggest faces that casual hip hop fans are up on.
Diddy did all this **** too. And they're all leaders.
I mean, let's not discredit Pharrell here just to big up Ye
Pharrell IS a hip-hop (and to a larger degree, style) cultural icon. He and Kanye can coexist in this universe. One being a culturally influential leader doesn't mean the other isn't.
The only reason people are even fighting over the two in this thread is because they both occupied a lane that involved doing what was considered "White people stuff" like skating, wearing polos, hooking up with blonde super models, and being intrigued by the Japanese.
Outside of that, there isn't much different between them and Swizz, and a bunch of the other big super producers/artists/fashion interested musicians of the early aughts.
Those are just the two-three biggest faces that casual hip hop fans are up on.
Diddy did all this **** too. And they're all leaders.
I ask this why can't Kanye do what the dude from Gourmet did .He just started a Luxuury brand all by himself and got it into boutiques .Homie making leather skateboards and 800 dollar shoes bags etc .Yet kanye who got infinitely more money than dude can't do the same .Im calling bs.
I think he is trying to do something much bigger. Tons of rappers have had clothing line, tons of people have started small boutique brands. I don't think he's aiming that low, and I think he's frustrated because people tell him he's aiming too high. He's looking to do major things which is why he needs a major backing.
I mean, let's not discredit Pharrell here just to big up Ye
Pharrell IS a hip-hop (and to a larger degree, style) cultural icon. He and Kanye can coexist in this universe. One being a culturally influential leader doesn't mean the other isn't.
The only reason people are even fighting over the two in this thread is because they both occupied a lane that involved doing what was considered "White people stuff" like skating, wearing polos, hooking up with blonde super models, and being intrigued by the Japanese.
Outside of that, there isn't much different between them and Swizz, and a bunch of the other big super producers/artists/fashion interested musicians of the early aughts.
Those are just the two-three biggest faces that casual hip hop fans are up on.
Diddy did all this **** too. And they're all leaders.
Black men don't have to be revolutionary militants to be considered leaders. Kanye sampled "strange fruit" to talk about illegitimate children with scandalous women. It was an artistic choice. Let it go.
You want Ida B. Wells and Malcolm, go listen to Blood on the Leaves, New Slaves, or half his material from CD, LR, Graduation etc.
Bruh...Ye out here breaking down the 5 percent vs the 10 percent and the 85.......why are y'all so dismissive of dude?
Like....he's saying EVERYTHING. literally EVERYTHING cats wished he would break down he broke down in this interview.
I dunno....I get it you don't like how brash he is or you don't want to acknowledge the impact he's had....but damn if each of these videos haven't charged me the **** up each time. And I'm not one of these grown men looking for guidance, and I'm for damn sure not caught in any hype.
I feel like if anyone y'all dudes were fans of we're saying what Kanye was saying in this interview, there would be no problem whatsoever. If Ghost or Rae or Rza literally said everything Kanye said in this interview word for word then cats would be on NT talking about how more rappers need to be on that type ****. And before you try to act like they wouldn't say that stuff I really want you to think about Wu Wear, the fact that Wu was performing at high end fashion shows and starring in super artsy indie films like Black and White during the 90s.
.
