OFFICIAL Ye fka "kanYe West" x G.O.O.D. Music Thread - ¥$ (AKA YE X TY DOLLA SIGN) - VULTURES 2 (NOW AVAILABLE sorta)

[illphillip]

okay...cause there's sooo many influential black people in media today...i can name them off of both hands...Kanye is one of them...

Kanye's undeniably affected the whole culture of rap...it's not an opinion, it's a fact...

How can I take you seriously when you don't even know the difference between "fact" and "opinion"?

Right....influential black people in media today. I got Kanye right up there with Oprah.

We already put Jay ahead of him as a "cultural leader" as well. I actually think Jay's (and Diddy's) efforts have legit mobilized young ethnic voters and helped Obama's election efforts.

We already went through Pharrell, Wayne and we could go through countless other rappers as "influencers".

I guess you missed where I said this was about him as a "cultural leader".....and you took it right back to "influence".

at dudes still talking about "fashion" from their "cultural leaders". Dude sits front row at the shows. He don't make the clothes.

You can do better.

 

[J A M E S]

Maybe if some of those same kids gettin gunned down in Chi had some other interest besides street **** and rap and had someone who's from the same place as them making moves in industries he has NO business in things would turn out differently.

Just saw this.

I feel you though, kids in the Chi are getting gunned down because of their interest in street life, not because of the endless cycle of poverty, crime and drug abuse that plagues Black communities all over America. If only they cared about leather jogging pants and designing bottles instead...

...but no worries...I have great faith Kanye West is going to form a billion dollar corporation and save them all....as soon as he's done complaining about why he's not getting joint venture deals from Nike and why Fendi won't produce his sweatpants ideas.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Your mistake is believing there is a right and wrong in this. It's not math.

This all began, not as a discussion of Kanye being influential. I can see that he is influential.
I've seen dudes on the street (and on here) literally carbon copy his outifts.

But being influential is not as uncommon as you might think.

This is more about the magnitude of that "influence" to the point where he can be deemed a "cultural LEADER".

I'd say Pharrell is moreso that. And I'm not even sure I'd go all the way there.

Following the trail that the next man blazed doesn't make you a leader IMO.

As I said before, he is clearly a significant personality in pop culture. But not always for the right reasons.

That alone does not lend itself to massive influence or leadership.

okay...cause there's sooo many influential black people in media today...i can name them off of both hands...Kanye is one of them...

Kanye's undeniably affected the whole culture of rap...it's not an opinion, it's a fact...

This. I mean, I think _'s have gone too far with the female tight jeans and other stuff but kanye is indeed... a cultural leader.



It just hurts some dudes to give him that type of credit.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Because dude is making Hedi Slimane disses and leather sweats seem as if it's some sort of new civil rights movement...as if by him doing that he's somehow pushing the needle forward. Coming from where he's coming from, his energy could be better spent elsewhere.

If he was as passionate about his people as he is about proving something to fashion's elite, and screaming about culture while he sells $200 sneakers, $120 undershirts and pushing a tour through a national ticketing conglomerate (anti-corporate, right?)......well, you do the math.

I learned today you can't talk about three things: Religion, politics and Kanye West.

I never get this argument and it thrown at every super successful young black man out. What is this Masterful thing that ya'll want these celebrities to do?? what is one man going to do to stop a situation that is centuries in the making. i really wanna know, it's always so & so is making all this money but he ain't helping the hood tho, he fakin he don't care

What ya'll cats fail to realize is just by him saying I am a god i'm as good artistically as Steve Jobs, Karl Largerfeld, Picasso etc etc..... he's lifting the ceiling off what can be accomplished and sought after. How is fighting for equality and a voice in corporate America suddenly a hindrance to Black people?

Of course he's fighting to prove something to fashion's elite, he's clearly someone who thinks highly of him self and his abilities to do anything, he's out to prove music's elite wrong, he's out to prove corporate elite wrong it's part of what makes him successful.... nobody denies that he also has a big ego, that doesn't change the fact that by him doing what he's doing and fighting for it as hard as he is, things are becoming easier for the next generations to come and blow up and deman there respect in whatever industry.

 

[illphillip]

We all must have VASTLY different definitions of "cultural leader"

Or of "leader". Because doing what for the most part Pharrell did before you, which NO ONE in here has disagreed with, doesn't make you a leader...

In fact.....

If you said "trendsetter" and left it at that, you probably wouldn't even get much argument from me.

Look at the difference between the way Jay conducts interviews and the way Kanye does. And you'll see some of the characteristics that define a leader.

This. I mean, I think _'s have gone too far with the female tight jeans and other stuff but kanye is indeed... a cultural leader.

It just hurts some dudes to give him that type of credit.

And once again, it all comes down to clothes.....

 

[robin thicke]

There are certain dudes in here is love to meet in real life.

 

[trynafeelmink]

We all must have VASTLY different definitions of "cultural leader"

Or of "leader". Because doing what for the most part Pharrell did before you, which NO ONE in here has disagreed with, doesn't make you a leader...

In fact.....

If you said "trendsetter" and left it at that, you probably wouldn't even get much argument from me.

Im interested to see what you see as a cultural leader... Because all i've gotten from you is Jay-Z and if you are claiming that He is the only cultural leader in the Hiphop culture than there is no reason to have this discussion anymore...

I just want to know how someone can change the sound, style, and perception of a culture.... Continuously do it and not be a leader of the culture

 

[illphillip]

I'm not sure how much clearer I can spell it out.

Jay is all of those things as much for what he does outside of music as for his music.

Beyond that, everything you claim Kanye has done, for music, culture and for others, Pharrell did for music, culture, and even for Kanye himself.

You even said it yourself that Pharrell changed that tide first.

So who's the leader? And who's following the path?

 

[epidemik the great]

I'm not sure how much clearer I can spell it out.

Jay is all of those things as much for what he does outside of music as for his music.

Beyond that, everything you claim Kanye has done, for music, culture and for others, Pharrell did for music, culture, and even for HIM.

You even said it yourself that Pharrell changed that tide first.

So who's the leader? And who's following the path?

but every leader has influences...just because Pharrell and Jay are leaders, doesn't mean Kanye can't be because he was influenced by them...Kanye is an entertainer, he doesn't have to be an activist and you don't have to be an activist to influence...if his passion is in fashion, then you can't **** on him because his focus is on fashion and not the violence in Chicago...he doesn't owe anybody...when we talk about culture, were talking about rap culture... style has clearly been copied throughout the mainstream and underground, so i don't get how you can try to deny his influence...when the people are openly saying "hey, i was influenced by Kanye", then that makes his influence factual, not an opinion...

by your terms, MLK Jr wasn't a leader because he looked up to Gandhi...

 

[trynafeelmink]

Why do you keep on bringing up Pharell as if one can survive if the other can't??

Outside of fashion Pharell & Kanye have followed two different paths and it makes no sense to clamp them both together.

Pharell has done things for hiphop culture that Ye hasn't & Ye has done things for hiphop culture that Pharrell hasn't..... how difficult of a concept is that.

that's like trying to discredit Lebron because Magic played before him. they are individuals and while they have many similarities they have a ton more differences. This once again falls back into what he was talking about in the interview as far as creatives and visionaries not getting the credit they deserve.

Here you are naming two different guys with a lifetime worth of accomplishments in a fairly new genre all before the age of 40. and you don't even want to give either one of these guys status as people who DIRECTLY changed the culture.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

We all must have VASTLY different definitions of "cultural leader"

Or of "leader". Because doing what for the most part Pharrell did before you, which NO ONE in here has disagreed with, doesn't make you a leader...

In fact.....

If you said "trendsetter" and left it at that, you probably wouldn't even get much argument from me.

Look at the difference between the way Jay conducts interviews and the way Kanye does. And you'll see some of the characteristics that define a leader.

This. I mean, I think _'s have gone too far with the female tight jeans and other stuff but kanye is indeed... a cultural leader.

It just hurts some dudes to give him that type of credit.

And once again, it all comes down to clothes.....

I agree with you on this. Jay carries himself A LOT better than how Kanye carries himself. Jay is what I think a leader should be, a more calm and cool type of dude. Kanye comes off like a spoiled *** lil kid sometimes. But whether you like Kanye or not, it's irrelevant in the big picture cuz dude is still a cultural leader. Clothes and Music. He's done a lot to advance Hip Hop culture.



I honestly think some ya'll take Kanye TOO serious and it causes ya'll to either hate or love him too much.

 

[deuce king]

 

In regards to hip hop or just music in general??

specifically hiphop, but even amongst any other genre's Ye has always been considered one of the best in today's world.

Thank you for your response.  In regards to hip hop, I'm just not seeing it.  Between his videos or his concerts........especially his concerts.  None of his videos IMO were ground breaking or even reviewed or seen in a high light.  When you think of powerful hip hop videos within the past 10 years I honestly can't think of one Kanye West video that comes to mind, that's just me though. 

As far as his concerts or performances go.  I think it's more so people idolizing the person rather than the actual performance or art.  For example, people on this board love to hype up that Glow in the Dark Tour, and I was there near the front row when he came to Virginia and performed and it was good for what it was but once again, nothing ground breaking or moving about that concert at all.  I say that with all due respect as I have been to many different concerts from many different genres and Glow in the Dark certainly was nothing new for me, it might have been for folks that have never been to a concert before, so I can see why those folks have such love for it as it was their first but that's about it.  The person who truly should and deserves high praise and credit for videos, concerts, and performances is Michael Jackson.  Now's that an artist that truly was/is considered the best at what he did and changed all of those aspects, even in and for today's world.   

As for your ending statement, besides fans who considers Kanye West one of the best in today's world??

 

[illphillip]

Now we're comparing Ghandi and MLK and Lebron and Magic with Pharrell and Kanye?

You dudes are seriously outer limits.

Ghandi was DEAD when MLK was active and Magic was retired

Dudes are easily at least 1 generation apart.

Meanwhile, Pharrell (98/99 was "Superthug") had only popped maybe 5 years before Kanye (Blueprint was 01. "Through The Wire" was 04) did.

There isn't a lot of thought behind these words before you guys type, is there?

If Pharrell is advancing "clothes and music" 5 years before Kanye, how can Kanye be such a leader?

As I said, doing something a few years after the next man is nothing to write home about on my opinion.

I guess I'm just going to have to keep saying the same **** over and over again. Maybe one day y'all will see the light. Or you'll just be asking the same questions again

 

[epidemik the great]

As for your ending statement, besides fans who considers Kanye West one of the best in today's world??

stupid...Kanye's known mostly for his music, so the people who consider Kanye the best are obviously fans...nobody who is a Nas fan would call Jay the best rapper and vis-versa...

Kanye has A LOT of fans...and for good reasons...

 

[epidemik the great]

Now we're comparing Ghandi and MLK and Lebron and Magic with Pharrell and Kanye?

You dudes are seriously outer limits.

Ghandi was DEAD when MLK was active and Magic was retired

Dudes are easily at least 1 generation apart.

Meanwhile, Pharrell (98/99 was "Superthug") had only popped maybe 5 years before Kanye (Blueprint was 01. "Through The Wire" was 04) did.

There isn't a lot of thought behind these words before you guys type, is there?

If Pharrell is advancing "clothes and music" 5 years before Kanye, how can Kanye be such a leader?

As I said, doing something a few years after the next man is nothing to write home about on my opinion.

I guess I'm just going to have to keep saying the same **** over and over again. Maybe one day y'all will see the light. Or you'll just be asking the same questions again

so LeBron and Kobe??? Bron can't be a leader because Kobe was first??? and Kobe couldn't be a leader because Mike was still playing when he was...c'mon

none of the famous musicians that came out in the 70s-90s can be leaders because Mike was running ****...

nobody is comparing Gandhi to Kanye personally, it's the sentiments we're talking about here that's being avoided...

 

[trynafeelmink]

so LeBron and Kobe??? Bron can't be a leader because Kobe was first??? and Kobe couldn't be a leader because Mike was still playing when he was...c'mon

none of the famous musicians that came out in the 70s-90s can be leaders because Mike was running ****...

nobody is comparing Gandhi to Kanye personally, it's the sentiments we're talking about here that's being avoided...

He knows exactly what he's doing because he does this in all threads that he feels strongly about. he steers off the main convo and focuses on dumb ****.

Apparently there can only be one person changing an industry at once. Kanye can't have an impact on the culture because Pharell had an impact on the culture shortly before.. yea because Pharell & Kanye are the same exact person and share the same sentiments and ideas

 

[illphillip]

Noone said you said you were comparing Kanye to Ghandi personally. It was just a piss poor comparison across the board.

Kind of like comparing guys who play a team sport with individual musicians.

The vagueries of who is a leader or who isn't between MJ, and other 70's-90's musicians isn't the point.

In terms of what we're discussing, one dude led. The other followed his lead.

As for your ending statement, besides fans who considers Kanye West one of the best in today's world??

nobody who is a Nas fan would call Jay the best rapper and vis-versa...

False. You're all over the place dog.

 

[illphillip]

so LeBron and Kobe??? Bron can't be a leader because Kobe was first??? and Kobe couldn't be a leader because Mike was still playing when he was...c'mon

none of the famous musicians that came out in the 70s-90s can be leaders because Mike was running ****...

nobody is comparing Gandhi to Kanye personally, it's the sentiments we're talking about here that's being avoided...

He knows exactly what he's doing because he does this in all threads that he feels strongly about. he steers off the main convo and focuses on dumb ****.

You sound like a fool. I steered off the main convo?

I brought up world leaders and ball players from different generations?

I most certainly did not. You can't be that dense.

I just remembered. You're the same dude that pointed out how DMX sold more albums than Jay Z during a time period to support the claim that Jay was a bigger artist.

You are straight backwards

 

[deuce king]

 

As for your ending statement, besides fans who considers Kanye West one of the best in today's world??

stupid...Kanye's known mostly for his music, so the people who consider Kanye the best are obviously fans...nobody who is a Nas fan would call Jay the best rapper and vis-versa...

Kanye has A LOT of fans...and for good reasons...

Piss poor response champ.  So all your saying is because Kanye has a large FANBASE, that makes him the best in today's world??  No outside entities, no other professional artists, no nothing.  The only people that stake that claim are a bunch of snot-noised kids that band together as a cohesive unit on a message board.  That statement from you certainly doesn't help the cause for Kanye West champ, not at all. 

Also, you are wrong regarding your comment about Nas and Jay.  Personally, I'm a Nas fan and would and do call Jay the best rapper.  Try again. 

 

[trynafeelmink]

 

[trynafeelmink]

Thank you for your response.  In regards to hip hop, I'm just not seeing it.  Between his videos or his concerts........especially his concerts.  None of his videos IMO were ground breaking or even reviewed or seen in a high light.  When you think of powerful hip hop videos within the past 10 years I honestly can't think of one Kanye West video that comes to mind, that's just me though. 

As far as his concerts or performances go.  I think it's more so people idolizing the person rather than the actual performance or art.  For example, people on this board love to hype up that Glow in the Dark Tour, and I was there near the front row when he came to Virginia and performed and it was good for what it was but once again, nothing ground breaking or moving about that concert at all.  I say that with all due respect as I have been to many different concerts from many different genres and Glow in the Dark certainly was nothing new for me, it might have been for folks that have never been to a concert before, so I can see why those folks have such love for it as it was their first but that's about it.  The person who truly should and deserves high praise and credit for videos, concerts, and performances is Michael Jackson.  Now's that an artist that truly was/is considered the best at what he did and changed all of those aspects, even in and for today's world.   

As for your ending statement, besides fans who considers Kanye West one of the best in today's world??

Piss poor response champ.  So all your saying is because Kanye has a large FANBASE, that makes him the best in today's world??  No outside entities, no other professional artists, no nothing.  The only people that stake that claim are a bunch of snot-noised kids that band together as a cohesive unit on a message board.  That statement from you certainly doesn't help the cause for Kanye West champ, not at all. 

Also, you are wrong regarding your comment about Nas and Jay.  Personally, I'm a Nas fan and would and do call Jay the best rapper.  Try again. 

As far as hiphop goes if we are talking Videos & Concerts I find it hard to believe that there is many in the same realm as West as far as those categories go.

Now when you expand it to music in general it's arguable because i haven't experienced plenty of other genre's live or saw all the videos. However it's very rare that anyone has saw everything so i could only base my opinion on his ranking based off consensus of opinions. I have never heard anyone say Kanye had a terrible performance.

More importantly i take notice to what his peers and people who know the ins and outs and spend there life doing this have to say about his art and it's usually held in high regards from all sides

 

[epidemik the great]

Piss poor response champ.  So all your saying is because Kanye has a large FANBASE, that makes him the best in today's world??  No outside entities, no other professional artists, no nothing.  The only people that stake that claim are a bunch of snot-noised kids that band together as a cohesive unit on a message board.  That statement from you certainly doesn't help the cause for Kanye West champ, not at all. 

Also, you are wrong regarding your comment about Nas and Jay.  Personally, I'm a Nas fan and would and do call Jay the best rapper.  Try again. 

i'm saying, people who would possibly consider Kanye the best are fans...you don't get out in the real world much if you think Ye's fan base consist of members of Hypebeast and ISS...there's a reason he's a worldwide star, not because people think he's wack...

Kanye's the best in the world because he produces more quality material than anybody else...his discography is among the greatest in hip hop, the majority will let you know that...if you want outside entities, look at the critics...if you wan't other artist, ask Jay and Drake...don't be silly, kid...

my Jay and Nas comparison was worded wrong, admittedly...you wouldn't call Nas the best rapper if you thought Jay was better...

 

[king milaac]

We all must have VASTLY different definitions of "cultural leader"

Or of "leader". Because doing what for the most part Pharrell did before you, which NO ONE in here has disagreed with, doesn't make you a leader...

In fact.....

If you said "trendsetter" and left it at that, you probably wouldn't even get much argument from me.

Look at the difference between the way Jay conducts interviews and the way Kanye does. And you'll see some of the characteristics that define a leader.
And once again, it all comes down to clothes.....

I don't understand how Pharrell is getting brought into this discussion? With all do respect, Pharrell is not in anyway shape or form close to as big as an influence as Kanye is sonically, culturally, at all. And if you want to talk sonically, people need to stop talking about Pharrell as an individual, and need to reference the Neptunes, Chad deserves just as much credit. But IMO, what Kanye has accomplished is levels above what either Pharrell or Chad has done and it's not even close. 

If you want to talk culturally, Pharrell was never the guy to break boundaries and redefine things. He came into the industry as an "alternative" artist. He was never a pure hip hop artist. He was a co-producer with a partner who was musically gifted (Chad) who sang in a rock band (N*E*R*D.) When he came out in the late 90's and early 2000's, his style was no different than Fred Durst style, so just because he's black he becomes a trendsetter? Pharrell isn't the first black artist to dress like Fred Durst or embrace the skate culture. I don't see anything culturally groundbreaking there. 

When I think of cultural trendsetters I think of Kanye. His style, his VULNERABILITY. Kanye was the first artist brave enough to be 100% vulnerable. There would be no DRAKE if there wasn't a Kanye. When I think of cultural trendsetters, another person I think of is Cam. Cam'ron and that whole dipset movement redefined the way people dressed and acted. That whole "swag" movement today, these kids idolized Cam and Cam was really one of the first to bring that whole attitude to the commercial mainstream. 

 

[flossb15]

I always thought the All Falls Down video and Power were innovative

No not the best but innovative

 

[gllahone84]

specifically hiphop, but even amongst any other genre's Ye has always been considered one of the best in today's world.

trolling