Official Umar Johnson Thread

[frenchbreadbuilds]

whats the modern day equivalent to "if you leave this relationship you wont have a bank account, a place of your own to live, a job that covers all your expenses, protection and provision"? I dont doubt the level of character women in previous generations had but its not like there was many options on the table. Because back then, for better or worse even the average working man had that kind of leverage to keep a woman at home whether she was happy or not.

isnt the whole discourse on modern day dating centered on leverage?

 

[Present]

whats the modern day equivalent to "if you leave this relationship you wont have a bank account, a place of your own to live, a job that covers all your expenses, protection and provision"? I dont doubt the level of character women in previous generations had but its not like there was many options on the table. Because back then, for better or worse even the average working man had that kind of leverage to keep a woman at home whether she was happy or not.

isnt the whole discourse on modern day dating centered on leverage?

Bruh!

What "leverage" did Black Men ever have in America?

 

[RustyShackleford]

P Present and deuce king since you guys feel so stronger and black marriages forming and lasting.

How do you two keep y'all individuals marriages going strong?

And how long have y'all been married to your wives?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Bruh!

What "leverage" did Black Men ever have in America?

In this particular conversation thats a non sequitur. were talking about leverage in the context of dating, relationships, and marriage. Black men and women have been pairing up while America has been doing its white supremacy thing since America's inception. Black men always brought something to marriage other than relying on womens sense of "duty" to home make and procreate

 

[Present]

In this particular conversation thats a non sequitur. were talking about leverage in the context of dating, relationships, and marriage. Black men and women have been pairing up while America has been doing its white supremacy thing since America's inception.

It's the Umar Johnson thread Fam.

But anyway - you're right.

If Black women would have paid as much attention to their own business instead of worrying about what racist white women were talking about then we'd have been much better off today.

 

[deuce king]

That life of servitude and forgiving her husband for his trangressions is all Geraldine knows. I dont blame modern women for wanting more.

Daytime TV did a good job on you champ. Bless your heart.

 

[spiderjericho]

It's the Umar Johnson thread Fam.

But anyway - you're right.

If Black women would have paid as much attention to their own business instead of worrying about what racist white women were talking about then we'd have been much better off today.

i guess that’s my question. Umar, Kevin Samuels, Derrick Jaxn, Brother Polight, whoever the new black leader is, are they the ones who we should be getting relationship advice from?

These same black women are being conned by powerful black men.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bruh - I talk to my Mother every day. She tells me of her life and times.

I'm literally telling my own lived experience and sharing what she herself shared with me.

I have no idea what you're on.

Like I'm supposed to listen to you and Tyler Perry over my own Mother

Black folks ain't have nothing to do with Feminism / the Feminist movement Fam.

Those white women had no love for Black women / Black people then...and still don't today.

A bunch of racist Karens will never tell me what to think or how to feel about my own people.

Dude this makes no ******* sense

Other people have experiences with talking to older generations too. You are not unique. Having older relatives is not a rare thing.

So, it is hypocrisy for you to be dismissive of others comments on the past, especially when I was just stating factual evidence about the period, with some "you did not live it" hand wave

And then give yourself a past because you talk to your mother. But fact is you were not there either.

Your mother isn't the one typing on NT

So all you are doing is being a hypocrite, and trying to make and exemption to that hypocrisy

So spare me

All I said was the world was a different place generations ago. And that probably had an affect on people's decision making. I dunno why you got your shirt off because of that innocuous take.

 

[deuce king]

Amazing, tell dudes that the world was different generations and they just hand wave it

P Present you are speaking about times you never lived in too. If you are comparing the presented to the past, that is exactly what you are doing

I really don't understand the hypocrisy

My grandmother was married to my grandfather for about 35 years or so before his death. My father and mother are still married. I’m speaking of generations and times that I witnessed and know of.

That’s why I said what I said about folks talking to their grandparents, listening and having a better understanding of where we were as a PEOPLE and why we need to get back to that.

 

[deuce king]

P Present and deuce king since you guys feel so stronger and black marriages forming and lasting.

How do you two keep y'all individuals marriages going strong?

And how long have y'all been married to your wives?

6 years. The power of prayer, having a spiritual base, constant communication, planning ahead, date nights/activities, counseling, and perseverance.

 

[Present]

P Present and deuce king since you guys feel so stronger and black marriages forming and lasting.

How do you two keep y'all individuals marriages going strong?

And how long have y'all been married to your wives?

Great question!

I have never been married and never had kids.

As a traditional man (though I didn't know I was at the time), it was exceedingly difficult for me to find a wife amongst all the women around me (including and especially at college) coming from the environment in which I was raised.

TBH it felt as though my parents raised me to live in a time that had long since passed.

Chivalry, opening doors for ladies, treating women with respect, please, thank you, pay the check, etc.

Let's just say that approach didn't lead to much success in my environment.

By the time I was ready for marriage, made something of myself, mature and responsible enough to settle down as a family man (30's) most of the women I was physically attracted to were single mothers or modern-day feminists, and the traditional women I met were either already married or jaded.

I've gone on to become a homeowner, and have a stable career, income, etc. but no kids and no wife.

Had no idea most Black Men fit into the same category. Single and childless.

I've had plenty of girlfriends but never a wife.

I don't "blame" women for that though. Either adapt or not.

Plenty of my brothers suffered from having another man's kids put on them, divorces, and child support - one even deleted himself over his BM/child support when we were just out of HS.

Mans had a baseball scholarship, got his HS sweetheart preggo, got put on child support, and ended up working at a factory only to stop by her apartment to find another dude playing the PlayStation he had just bought for his son.

Messed me up for a long time Fam.

Hats off to my Brothers that made it work!

 

[RustyShackleford]

My grandmother was married to my grandfather for about 35 years or so before his death. My father and mother are still married. I’m speaking of generations and times that I witnessed and know of.

That’s why I said what I said about folks talking to their grandparents, listening and having a better understanding of where we were as a PEOPLE and why we need to get back to that.

One set of my grandparents were married for over 35 years. Happily. Even though my grandad was unfaithful at times. My grandmother was a loving an loyal wife. Until my grandfather died of cancer

The marriage of my other grandparents ended after years of physical abuse finally ended in my grandfather beating my grandmother nearly to death.

My dad is the one that filed for divorce because he felt he got married too soon. He was a good dad, but a terrible husband. From his own admission

My closest Aunt and Uncle been married over 30 years. Their kids are 10 years older than the ages they got married at, and they tell their kids to not worry about getting married if they have doubts.

I talk to my all my grandparents and parents about their marriages. So did my sister.

I dunno why y'all acting like people will naturally hold the same views as you if they just talk to older people

People had different experiences, even in the past. Even still, I think it is a much more complex issue that y'all making it out to be.

All I did was lists way society was different in the past, and said that probably affected some people's decisions. Anecdotal evidence doesn't change any of that.

 

[Present]

i guess that’s my question. Umar, Kevin Samuels, Derrick Jaxn, Brother Polight, whoever the new black leader is, are they the ones who we should be getting relationship advice from?

These same black women are being conned by powerful black men.

Eh at this point in my life I realize I don't need to follow a cult of personality.

Listen objectively and take what you need to be a better version of yourself than you were yesterday is pretty much it for me.

Dude this makes no ****ing sense

Other people have experiences with talking to older generations too. You are not unique. Having older relatives is not a rare thing.

So, it is hypocrisy for you to be dismissive of others comments on the past, especially when I was just stating factual evidence about the period, with some "you did not live it" hand wave

And then give yourself a past because you talk to your mother. But fact is you were not there either.

Your mother isn't the one typing on NT

So all you are doing is being a hypocrite, and trying to make and exemption to that hypocrisy

So spare me

All I said was the world was a different place generations ago. And that probably had an affect on people's decision making. I dunno why you got your shirt off because of that innocuous take.

=

y'all don't want to hear me, ya just want to dance"

That college professor thing got your brain locked Fam.

At this point you just lecturing

 

[RustyShackleford]

y'all don't want to hear me, ya just want to dance"

Dude, you were simply being a hypocrite

Plain and simple

Edit: the dude that always wants to act like he is back in Philosophy 101, wants to comment on someone's brain being locked.

give me a break

 

[Present]

Dude, you were simply being a hypocrite

Plain and simple

Thank you for sharing bro.

 

[Present]

People had different experiences, even in the past. Even still, I think it is a much more complex issue that y'all making it out to be.

All I did was lost way society was different in the past, and said that probably affected some people's decisions. Anecdotal evidence doesn't change any of that.

If you step back a bit you'll see that we are saying the same thing.

None of us are qualified to speak on the times we didn't live in or the lives we didn't lead.

The modern-day feminist narrative of patriarchy/oppression = propaganda.

There are plenty of women that are still alive who actually lived those experiences that disagree with the modern-day feminist narrative.

Personally, I don't see why as a man I need to inject myself into that conversation at all.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

The modern-day feminist narrative of patriarchy/oppression = propaganda.

If you dont mind me asking, how do you think this has played into the outcomes of your own personal experiences? Like descriptively. How do you believe things have manifested in your life to produce the outcomes youve gotten in terms of intergender dynamics?

 

[RustyShackleford]

If you step back a bit you'll see that we are saying the same thing.

None of us are qualified to speak on the times we didn't live in or the lives we didn't lead.

The modern-day feminist narrative of patriarchy/oppression = propaganda.

You moved the goal post here.

Because if this is the case. Then a whole bunch of your post violate this principle.

And I think it is completely fair to point out that people in the past faces different socioeconomic factors. That is an observable fact.

If is y'all that tried to make it all about 2nd hand anecdotal evidence. Not me.

 

[Present]

If you dont mind me asking, how do you think this has played into the outcomes of your own personal experiences? Like descriptively. How do you believe things have manifested in your life to produce the outcomes youve gotten in terms of intergender dynamics?

Another great question Fam.

For me, it's been a real process.

I've gone from fear, anger, resentment, and anxiety to confidence, respect, humility, and gratefulness.

I had to unlearn lots of BS I believed when I was younger, step back, and realize that people are just people.

Working on myself, being responsible, taking accountability, and becoming a man, unapologetically.

Military career, being around other masculine men, in life-or-death situations, investing in my own growth, comparing notes with my peers, etc.

Once I divided folks into "modern" and "traditional" it got easier for me to navigate the dating world.

My expectations for a traditional woman diverged from my expectations for a modern woman.

I had to realize that when it comes to women's business a man will always be a student, started taking notes on female nature, and really learning what it takes to commit to a long-lasting healthy committed relationship with a good woman. Luckily I've met a few good female friends along the way that helped a great deal in my understanding.

Most of all not take things personally.

As for outcomes, I know that it's on me to be the best version of myself in honor of my family and most of all my Creator.

To live a good life as a decent man.

If I find a woman to share my life with then great.

My purpose however isn't women, but being a good man and leaving this place at least a little better than I found it by treating others (male or female) the way I'd want to be treated.

 

[Present]

You moved the goal post here.

Because if this is the case. Then a whole bunch of your post violate this principle.

And I think it is completely fair to point out that people in the past faces different socioeconomic factors. That is an observable fact.

If is y'all that tried to make it all about 2nd hand anecdotal evidence. Not me.

Moving along.

How are you doing today Rusty?

Did you and the Fam have a good holiday season?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Another great question Fam.

For me, it's been a real process.

I've gone from fear, anger, resentment, and anxiety to confidence, respect, humility, and gratefulness.

I had to unlearn lots of BS I believed when I was younger, step back, and realize that people are just people.

Working on myself, being responsible, taking accountability, and becoming a man, unapologetically.

Military career, being around other masculine men, in life-or-death situations, investing in my own growth, comparing notes with my peers, etc.

Once I divided folks into "modern" and "traditional" it got easier for me to navigate the dating world.

My expectations for a traditional woman diverged from my expectations for a modern woman.

I had to realize that when it comes to women's business a man will always be a student, started taking notes on female nature, and really learning what it takes to commit to a long-lasting healthy committed relationship with a good woman. Luckily I've met a few good female friends along the way that helped a great deal in my understanding.

Most of all not take things personally.

As for outcomes, I know that it's on me to be the best version of myself in honor of my family and most of all my Creator.

To live a good life as a decent man.

If I find a woman to share my life with then great.

My purpose however isn't women, but being a good man and leaving this place at least a little better than I found it by treating others (male or female) the way I'd want to be treated.

Appreciate the response! I’ve got a few more questions if you don’t mind. (Apologize to the thread readers for the tangential convo)

How do you think feminism and the current day discussion and deconstruction of gender roles have lead to your relationship outcomes? You mentioned you’ve had a few girlfriends; what was feminisms role in making them not suitable for marriage?

I see that you make a conscious decision to separate women into traditional Vs modern. What about a modern woman makes her incompatable with you or the situation you’d want to create? Assuming you want a traditional woman, what’s kept you from being able to pursue/find them?

You mention that your purpose isn’t to find a woman, Which I don’t think should be any man’s purpose, but while it may not be your life’s purpose, as someone who wants to be a traditional/masculine man wanting a traditional/feminine woman, isnt that inherently not a passive activity? Like if that’s what you want don’t you have to be actively and intentionally seeking that kind of situation?

 

[WASHED KING]

My grandmother was married to my grandfather for about 35 years or so before his death. My father and mother are still married. I’m speaking of generations and times that I witnessed and know of.

That’s why I said what I said about folks talking to their grandparents, listening and having a better understanding of where we were as a PEOPLE and why we need to get back to that.

Interesting…so you benefit from 2 GENERATIONS of 2 parent households?

Have you ever stolen a car?

 

[RustyShackleford]

6 years. The power of prayer, having a spiritual base, constant communication, planning ahead, date nights/activities, counseling, and perseverance.

Does she ever get to drive while you are in the car?

 

[WASHED KING]

Not shocked at all bootstrap duece would feel the way he does.

 

[Present]

Appreciate the response! I’ve got a few more questions if you don’t mind. (Apologize to the thread readers for the tangential convo)

How do you think feminism and the current day discussion and deconstruction of gender roles have lead to your relationship outcomes? You mentioned you’ve had a few girlfriends; what was feminisms role in making them not suitable for marriage?

I see that you make a conscious decision to separate women into traditional Vs modern. What about a modern woman makes her incompatable with you or the situation you’d want to create? Assuming you want a traditional woman, what’s kept you from being able to pursue/find them?

You mention that your purpose isn’t to find a woman, Which I don’t think should be any man’s purpose, but while it may not be your life’s purpose, as someone who wants to be a traditional/masculine man wanting a traditional/feminine woman, isnt that inherently not a passive activity? Like if that’s what you want don’t you have to be actively and intentionally seeking that kind of situation?

Yeah, you're right.

Don't want to derail the thread...

Sent you a PM.