***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[junglejim]

Dwalk right now

“I PAY TAXES”

The hypocrisy in here is unreal

 

[dacomeup]

Did your friend's law firm get a PPP loan? I'll wait. . .

Since I work for a large international firm, I doubt it but I haven’t checked?

I also pay taxes, yearly. Substantially more than I pay for my amexes.

You keep trying with this parallel but it makes no sense. AMEX is offering extra perks to customers during a recession. What the hell does paying taxes have to do with it? The same small business owners who the PPP was intended for who haven’t been able to receive it — they also pay taxes.

 

[aepps20]

Delk is not a cool person. His support for Republican Pedos and DEPLORABLES makes perfect sense now. No low is too low for this guy.

 

[junglejim]

By chance, are the sign-up bonuses offered by your wireless carrier and credit card provider funded by taxpayers as part of a limited emergency disaster relief program that has received far more applications than available resources? If not, this isn't the best comparison.

Nearly 20 million Americans are facing eviction due to COVID-19 - a crisis that Black renters are twice as likely to experience as White renters. You admittedly face no meaningful financial hardship due to the pandemic. No employee paychecks are at stake. You're not in danger of missing a mortgage payment.

The EIDL program offers EMERGENCY loans intended for business purposes. It's not just "free money" doled out to anyone with an eBay account.

You're bragging about accepting an improper loan advance for $1,000 like it's a come up.


This ain't it.

Listen Meth, this is America and in America we apply for hurricane disaster relief if there isn’t enough oversight over the program even if we weren’t hit by a hurricane. I got thousands of dollars from Hurricane Katrina and it’s absolutely the programs fault that I got the money. I don’t care that someone else who needed the money didn’t get it. That’s a gripe you will have to take up with Congress because they paid me the money that I EARNED by paying mah taxes

This is how I got that hurricane, tornado, and flood money and I take absolutely no responsibility for claiming it. It’s all congresses fault

 

[dwalk31]

By chance, are the sign-up bonuses offered by your wireless carrier and credit card provider funded by taxpayers as part of a limited emergency disaster relief program that has received far more applications than available resources? If not, this isn't the best comparison.

Nearly 20 million Americans are facing eviction due to COVID-19 - a crisis that Black renters are twice as likely to experience as White renters. You admittedly face no meaningful financial hardship due to the pandemic. No employee paychecks are at stake. You're not in danger of missing a mortgage payment.

The EIDL program offers EMERGENCY loans intended for business purposes. It's not just "free money" doled out to anyone with an eBay account.

You're bragging about accepting an improper loan advance for $1,000 like it's a come up.


This ain't it.

It isn't just a hobby because you say so. And I did not brag about it.

And it isn't improper to receive the grant.

Also, where does your implication that the money was used for something other than business purposes stem from? I'll wait... because that sure didn't come from me. I really want to know because yesterday when someone else made the assumption I asked if it was based on my race. But please do tell me why you would assume I would take a business grant and NOT use it for business purposes. And think it is free money doled out to anyone with an ebay account. Or a "come up."

That type of rhetoric is troubling and I am interested to know what makes you think it applies it me. If someone else made the same type of charged comments about other government programs it would undoubtedly, rightly, be deleted because it traffics in some horrible (often racist) assumptions.

Instead of a fake Niketalk tax audit based on faulty assumptions, perhaps your gripe is better aimed at the fact that businesses you don't deem worthy are in fact eligible for these programs because.. wait for it.. revenue slowed because of... wait for it... the pandemic.

It has nothing to do with whether you are facing eviction or number of employees. It was specifically designed with sole proprietors and gig workers in mind.

The evictions are sad. And pro bono hours (something I have actually done) are spent helping people in these situations. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

But I won't have a pissing contest on who donates the most, gives the most back, etc.

You hit the mark often, but that rant wasn't it.

 

[junglejim]

You made assumptions about my sneaker/streetwear sales, whether I pay taxes on them, the time I spend doing it, my intent on making a profit from it, etc.

Yes, I am fortunate to have an income above the level I stated based on my career. I also am fortunate to still be able to work from home and did not need to rely on this advance for household expenses. Not denying any of that.

But needing to rely on it for household expenses wasn't a part of the eligibility requirements.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

so the story is fake but they wanna go after the leakers and punish them with jail time

 

[dwalk31]

Since I work for a large international firm, I doubt it but I haven’t checked?

You keep trying with this parallel but it makes no sense. AMEX is offering extra perks to customers during a recession. What the hell does paying taxes have to do with it? The same small business owners who the PPP was intended for who haven’t been able to receive it — they also pay taxes.

If you work for a large international firm, they probably did. Several of the V100 did. But who's counting.

After you check, let us know.

And I can guarantee it was far far more than $1,000.

The taxes thing was only in reference to you saying I pay for the amex. I didn't get a PPP loan, or a loan at all, so the entire discussion is off base.

 

[junglejim]

If you work for a large international firm, they probably did. Several of the V100 did. But who's counting.

After you check, let us know.

And I can guarantee it was far far more than $1,000.

The taxes thing was only in reference to you saying I pay for the amex. I didn't get a PPP loan, or a loan at all, so the entire discussion is off base.

I'm doubting that many large international firms have less than the requisite 500 employees to qualify for the loan/grant. If they did qualify, they likely laid off just enough employees to get under the 500 employee threshold to qualify which at very minimum is extremely shady/unethical and many of the companies who did it were rightfully shamed into paying the money back. The large international accounting firm I worked for did not take the grant money because they did not qualify as they had 120,000 employees, hence them being classified as a large international employer.

The only real large ones I've worked with previously were firms like Skadden and Quinn and both of those firms had well over 500 employees. I don't think they would be well received if they laid off 50-75% of their staff so they could qualify for a loan intended to keep people employed and off of unemployment.

 

[dacomeup]

If you work for a large international firm, they probably did. Several of the V100 did. But who's counting.

After you check, let us know.

And I can guarantee it was far far more than $1,000.

The taxes thing was only in reference to you saying I pay for the amex. I didn't get a PPP loan, or a loan at all, so the entire discussion is off base.

Got it. Nope, my firm is V20 and I don’t see them on this list. What exactly was the point of that other than to deflect from you?

The tax parallel remains nonsensical.

 

[dwalk31]

I'm doubting that many large international firms have less than the requisite 500 employees to qualify for the loan/grant. If they did qualify, they likely laid off just enough employees to get under the 500 employee threshold to qualify which at very minimum is extremely shady/unethical and many of the companies who did it were rightfully shamed into paying the money back. The large international accounting firm I worked for did not take the grant money because they did not qualify as they had 120,000 employees, hence them being classified as a large international employer.

The only real large ones I've worked with previously were firms like Skadden and Quinn and both of those firms had well over 500 employees. I don't think they would be well received if they laid off 50-75% of their staff so they could qualify for a loan intended to keep people employed and off of unemployment.

As a starting point large international law firms have far less employees than large international accounting firms. Obviously some are too large to be eligible. But the discussion is about eligible businesses.

But you don't have to take my word on it as it relates to large law firms:

The Biglaw Firms That Cashed In On Government PPP Loans - Page 2 of 2 - Above the Law

This is a different kind of PPP than what Biglaw firms are used to...

abovethelaw.com

 

[dacomeup]

dwalk31 Most of those firms aren’t international, though. Not to be pedantic.

 

[dwalk31]

Got it. Nope, my firm is V20 and I don’t see them on this list. What exactly was the point of that other than to deflect from you?

The tax parallel remains nonsensical.

Black man doing corporate work at a V20 (ongoing disagreements aside... respect, fr).

But the point was that a business getting a PPP loan isn't some unethical thing.

 

[junglejim]

As a starting point large international law firms have far less employees than large international accounting firms. Obviously some are too large to be eligible. But the discussion is about eligible businesses.

But you don't have to take my word on it as it relates to large law firms:

The Biglaw Firms That Cashed In On Government PPP Loans - Page 2 of 2 - Above the Law

This is a different kind of PPP than what Biglaw firms are used to...

abovethelaw.com

I don’t doubt that there a big law firms out there that have taken PPP loans, but generally for them to be forgiven, 75% of the loan has to be used to pay employees and keep them on their payroll so they can continue business as normal when this slowdown ends. That’s the point of the program and no one debates that. The issue I take in many of these larger businesses is the ones who intentionally lay-off employees to get under the 500 employee threshold. That is not the intent of the program and is borderline fraud.

Most law firms don’t have large amounts of emergency savings built up as they distribute most their income to partners/shareholders yearly so it wouldn’t surprise me that some of them would be hurting. The same thing happened with my wife’s clinic. They distributed almost all of their funds out at year end and when they had to turn into a triage unit for COVID cases they didn’t have enough revenue coming in to maintain their staff level. In these cases it’s very much justified as the alternative is layoffs and having people claim unemployment. Most people are pointing out they hypocrisy is the individuals who vote for small government or lambast individuals on welfare while simultaneously receiving government assistance themselves (the case of the Aryn Rand foundation and Devin Nunez)

But on the flip side, you selling dunks in your spare time when you are not being a lawyer and have self admittedly not experienced any of the effects of the downturn while taking funds meant for Full-time gig workers or part time gig workers who rely on that cash flow to pay their bills is laughable. The fact that you still can’t see the difference speaks louder than anything you actually say.

 

[dwalk31]

dwalk31 Most of those firms aren’t international, though. Not to be pedantic.

But several of them are

 

[storm2006]

DelkYe

Got plenty of money and asking for more. The quick shift to Ye over DJT is all starting to make sense.

 

[JPS]

This is such an informative and also entertaining thread

 

[RIP sleazyy]

hold on that’s all you have to do?

I am also in need of millions of dollars to bring about change to society, where do I sign up?

Do I just tweet it first?

 

[dwalk31]

But on the flip side, you selling dunks in your spare time when you are not being a lawyer and have self admittedly not experienced any of the effects of the downturn while taking funds meant for Full-time gig workers or part time gig workers who rely on that cash flow to pay their bills is laughable. The fact that you still can’t see the difference speaks louder than anything you actually say.

Look, I understand your gripe. But you are adding things to the eligibility requirements that simply aren't there.

I don't mind conceding that this is a case where we disagree on "right" v. "wrong."

But I think fraud and unethical are simply too far.

 

[junglejim]

Look, I understand your gripe. But you are adding things to the eligibility requirements that simply aren't there.

I don't mind conceding that this is a case where we disagree on "right" v. "wrong."

But I think fraud and unethical are simply too far.

ITS IN THE ******* REQUIREMENTS FOR THE LOAN/GRANT

Here are the requirements:

Here are the IRS rules on Hobby versus Business

But you can continue to claim that I made assumptions about you for asking you the exact same ******* questions that the IRS will ask you if you ever get audited and have to payback the loan/grant.

Do I need these discounts to survive? No. Is taking advantage of them unethical? No.

You made assumptions about my sneaker/streetwear sales, whether I pay taxes on them, the time I spend doing it, my intent on making a profit from it, etc.

Yes, I am fortunate to have an income above the level I stated based on my career. I also am fortunate to still be able to work from home and did not need to rely on this advance for household expenses. Not denying any of that.

But needing to rely on it for household expenses wasn't a part of the eligibility requirements.

It is literally in the requirements:

Question
How do you distinguish between a business and a hobby?

Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.

 

[aepps20]

dwalk31 Most of those firms aren’t international, though. Not to be pedantic.

I noticed my firm isn't on that list.

 

[dwalk31]

ITS IN THE ****ING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE LOAN/GRANT

Here are the requirements:

Here are the IRS rules on Hobby versus Business

But you can continue to claim that I made assumptions about you for asking you the exact same ****ing questions that the IRS will ask you if you ever get audited and have to payback the loan/grant.




It is literally in the requirements:

Question
How do you distinguish between a business and a hobby?

Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.

You can’t summarily classify my sales as a hobby based on your assumptions.

As you know, no one single factor of the hobby test is dispositive. It literally states that above the portion you highlighted.

To imply that solely because I don't depend on it for my livelihood that is not a business is simply inaccurate. That is what the phrase "no one factor alone is decisive" means.

You don’t know how much I buy, how much I sell, whether I intend to profit, about the books I keep, etc.

Yet you have decided to assume that I am attempting to “game” a system. Like I said earlier that is dangerous rhetoric, especially as it relates to black people, and I would like to know why you think it applies to me considering you lack the necessary information to make an assessment of my selling as a business vs. a hobby.

 

[IATT]

 

[junglejim]

You can’t summarily classify my sales as a hobby based on your assumptions.

As you know, no one single factor of the hobby test is dispositive.

You don’t know how much I buy, how much I sell, whether I intend to profit, about the books I keep, etc.

Yet you have decided to assume that I am attempting to “game” a system. Like I said earlier that is dangerous rhetoric, especially as it relates to black people, and I would like to know why you think it applies to me considering you lack the necessary information to make an assessment of my selling as a business vs. a hobby.

While this is true I don't know every single one of the facts here, but I do know that one of the very classifications is whether or not you rely on the income for you lively hood and you have openly stated in here multiple times that you do not. That's not an assumption I have made, that's a fact that you yourself have presented. A fact that would certainly be looked at unfavorably upon audit. I've dealt with enough hobby versus business audits to know that the IRS is pretty ******* stringent in what they determine to be a business versus a hobby, especially when people are consistently claiming losses from said business. I have had gig musicians who had their income classified as a hobby for tax purposes because they simply did not maintain adequate records or generate a steady enough profit from said gig and the did this **** full-time for income. Those people also made significantly less than you do as well.

Just because they gave you the grant/loan doesn't mean you are in the free and clear. I could claim a billion dollars worth of deductions but I would still have to support/defend the deductions upon audit. The IRS could still look at it upon audit and determine that the business is a hobby and that you erroneously claimed it as a business. It happens all the time and its frequently a trigger for audit, especially when people are claiming fairly significant losses/expenses from said business soon to be classified as a hobby. Based on what you yourself have said in here I am comfortable enough to know it would be an issue in a IRS audit if you are claiming losses or in this case, claiming a forgivable loan.

So yes, I will continue to stand by my assertion that you are a scumbag and took money from businesses/people who really needed the assistance. The program has a finite amount of money in it and when people take money who don't need it, it leaves the truly needy holding the bag at the end of the day.

Not once did you stop to ask should I do this even though I could do this and how it would affect others. Think about that for a little bit before you come back with some condescending response that will as usual find a way to skew the issue to make it seem less scummy on your part.

 

[dacomeup]

I noticed my firm isn't on that list.

Yea, this is definitely the minority of Am Law 200 firms. And so many of them aren't really "international". Some of these firms are probably actually cash strapped and are using this money to avoid layoffs.