- Dec 15, 2012
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Fellas, Steve King is done
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-You have not measured your insinuations and assertions of nefarious motives that well. Let us get serious now.
-Did I did not say anything about socialist being more dangerous, or doing more damage than anyone else. I don't know how me pointing about problematic behavior all of a sudden turns into me acting one group are worst actors than another. And if one group is so destructive, why would just saying "I'm better than that" be sufficient.
You are acting like just because I say that leftists have a blind spot on race or are condescending on the subject at times, or their analysis lacking, that I am calling them you all class reductionist, or worse racist. It is like you need to frame my argument in this way so you can take issue with it. To act like someone is being unfair to your group. Dude, all I am saying that even if someone means well, even if they are mostly a good actors, that can believe and do problematic ****. Not as problematic as other groups, but still problematic.
Like my original claim was not that socialist are secretly racist, it is that they view the problem of white supremacy as subordinate to class issues. Not that don't care at all, but that they argue that the ills of capitalism are the bigger issue. So my problem is not only with the class reductionist that says "it is not about race/white supremacy it is about class," but also the people that say "race/white supremacy is definitely involved, but people give it too much weight." The former group is a minority in the leftist movement, but the latter group is quite large IMO. Even worse, people that expand on those positions to dismiss "identity politics," "diversity," "representation," and "wokeness" as liberal distractions to the real cause. Instead of thinking about how those things can help further the fight for economic and social justice. Like the views of the ****tiest white liberal are ascribed to every left-leaning non-leftist person.
Wokeness to you might mean something ****ty liberals do to distract from the cruelty of neoliberal capitalism (I think that is fair characterization given many of your post), so it is a net negative. Wokeness to me, especially how I got introduced to the term as a teenager, was people realizing the injustices that people of color face (more specifically black people), so to me, it is a net positive. This is a small example of the blind spots I am talking about—the unintentional condescending take. But there are many others.
I am not saying most people that want socialism want it because they think white supremacy is part of the deal. I am saying that socialist in general don't think long and hard enough about how white supremacy (something they are against) and transform itself to live comfortably along with side socialism, if America were ever to become a socialist country. Also, if America were able to get there, if the political coalition socialist built, on the worker solidarity foundation they built it on, would be willing and able to defeat it. I am skeptical it would be.
I am not calling leftist secret racist, not saying most are sympathetic to white supremacy. But as a black man, often I am taken aback at how a group (who is disportionately white) who claim to be such great allies, who ask they take a leap of faith on them, who ask me to accept the same ****ty compromise of putting the concerns of moderate white people first and foremost (albeit a different group of moderate whites than white liberals ask), don't think they as a whole can do a little better. But are instead ascribe ****ty arguments to anyone making a criticism to deem it unfair, and insist on pushing back on arguments they think people are making instead of what they are actually saying
But whatever, man. You do you.
When the GOP base votes you out for being too damn racist...
We're living in such wild times man
When the GOP base votes you out for being too damn racist...
We're living in such wild times man
This is crazy. Conservative white people in Iowa looked at ole boy and thought "he too racist for us"
Fellas, Steve King is done
Steve King is widely recognized as the most racist and most vile [former] member of Congress. He has lost today in his primary in Iowa.
He is so racist that he would not endorse Coal Gang because "coal is black."
**** him.
Yikes smh
Oh Noooeez come back!
Well it looks like in American politics there are still a few taboos: pedophilia and asking for alternative perspectives on Auschwitz.
Well it looks like in American politics there are still a few taboos: pedophilia and asking for alternative perspectives on Auschwitz.
It's very frustrating that every allusion to socialism, Marxism is met with these slick little attempts to say that all or most leftists are secret white supremacists.
We criticize white supremacy and anti racism on here and that is not met with insinuations that all anti-racists secretly love neoliberal capitalism.
Well at least you're being direct about it, Rusty.
Rex, you know I appreciate that you’re one of the more reliable sources of Simpsons references here, and that your eventual rejection of libertarianism and its dog whistle racism gave longtime participants cause to feel like our collective patience was not in vain, but you need to step back and reassess this. You've warped Rusty's views beyond recognition and you're doing the same with mine.It strikes me as odd that the opposition to socialism is that by abolishing one hierarchy, capitalism, you cannot guarantee that it will abolish another hierarchy, white supremacy. So the solution is to not abolish capitalism and instead plead with it to diminish the severity of capitalist and white supremacist hierarchies.
Now RustyShackleford I know that you have a skeptical view of Marxism. That's too bad. Liberation from the bonds of capitalism is necessary though not a sufficient precondition for ending white supremacy.
For those who are open to Marxism but concerned that it is maniacally focused on class at the exclusion of race, please consider that Marx and his cothinker Engels, analyzed and remarked among the inseparability of capitalism from the enslavement and subsequent exploitation of Africans and the domestic exploitation of the unwaged labor of women, respectively. Marx died in 1881 and thinkers and practitioners of Marx has added and enriched and expounded upon his insights to this day. Many of the most notable of these people were leaders of anti colonial movements in the global South and the Black Panthers right here in our own country, hardly a roster of affluent white men hell bent on laundering white supremacy.
Lastly, Methodical Management I have to be honest. Every interaction we've had since I started to support Bernie and voice support for abolishing economic power structures boils down to you throwing out a back handed "you're pretty not class reductionist, for a Marxist." You were cool when I rejected white supremacy, an ideology which I tolerated for far too long in my life, to be sure. Yet when I later on started to wholesale reject capitalism, that was too far.
I'm a Marxist and a socialist and that makes me part of a community which I'm proud of. Like all communities, we have our problems and we have people in our community whose own personal conduct and world views are not always exemplary. But it feels offensive having to be told that our belief system is invalid because each and every member of our community is not perfect in every facet. believe me, we hate the red scare pod more than you do because their awful racial, gender and even body politics has probably scared off people who are on the fence about moving from liberalism over to leftism.
Now you are one of if not the most passionate and sharp advocates for social justice that I have come across and surely you know that if whites supremacy is to be abolished and the wounds that it has caused are to be healed, there can be no sanctity of private property. Concentrated capital must be broken up. In order to achieve such an end, it will require radicals, radicals in theory and in practice. It will require working with people whose politics are not ideal in every way but who share the resolve that hierarchies have now have to go. Typically, though tragically not always, people who categorically oppose one sort of hierarchy are relatively easy to convince that they should *** other hierarchies to their list of hierarchies to be abolished.
Even if you may not be a Marxist or a socialist or an anarchist, the sort of reforms that I know you want will require people who are more radical, on economics and political theory, than you or I might be. Consider the fact that we, for all intents and purposes, do not live in a democracy and it becomes even clearer that our political fates are bound up at this point.
So to you and RustyShackleford please don't forget who the biggest enemy is and don't let me forget it either.