***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[junglejim]

What has it claimed to “cure” that has been exposed as fallacious? What would be the drawback that has been exposed?

Realistically M4A would have done nothing to actually prevent the spread of the virus or address many of the issues that we are currently facing such as PPE and ventilator shortages. You can't slap M4A on a stupid governor who refuses to close down their state despite all contrary evidence of it needing to be done and think it will cure the issue. Will it help people who are currently affected get access to the proper care they need? Absolutely. Will it fix our current shortage of hospital beds and ventilators and protective equipment for healthcare providers? Absolutely not. If you look at the numbers, the people who are predominantly dying are those who currently have Medicare already (those in the 65+ age group).

Right... if only she were “prominent”

She wasnt a prominent candidate for president?

 

[-Red-]

Realistically M4A would have done nothing to actually prevent the spread of the virus or address many of the issues that we are currently facing such as PPE and ventilator shortages. You can't slap M4A on a stupid governor who refuses to close down their state despite all contrary evidence of it needing to be done and think it will cure the issue. Will it help people who are currently affected get access to the proper care they need? Absolutely. Will it fix our current shortage of hospital beds and ventilators and protective equipment for healthcare providers? Absolutely not. If you look at the numbers the people who are predominantly dying are those who currently have Medicare already.



She wasnt a prominent candidate for president?

Who claimed it would have done any of that, though? And, again, what would be the drawback (you didn't make that comment, so you might not see one)?

I figured you were clowning with the Warren response since y'all know who my preferred candidate is, so I was just clowning back.

 

[mplsdunk]

I was actually born and raised there and there are a decent number of Black folks in Casper, Cheyenne, Laramie. Surprisingly the people there are relatively decent.

Been to Casper, liked it way more than Rawlins same with Cheyenne.

West/Midwest coal bros for life

 

[junglejim]

That's fair. I don't really know what the drawback is except for maybe start-up time. Some estimates out there show it would take up to four years to transition to a full M4A system so by the time it actually gets in place, this virus is likely long gone or there is a vaccine if it doesn't mutate frequently like the flu.

My wife works in the health care industry and both her and her doctor (who ironically came here from Canada) both frequently ***** how much of a pain in the *** it is to get basic procedures approved under the current Medicare system and I would say that largely shapes my opinion of the M4A plan. I don't know whether that would be true on a national scale or not, but I will admit that is largely skews my opinion against a forced Medicare program.

Her example was there were certain procedures that Medicare would require a EKG before even performing that no other insurance company would require so they would have to order additional tests before they can get the procedure performed which results in a longer wait time, additional testing costs, and more paper work. I also work for a company in Denmark and a lot of those people talk about how simple elective procedures can take anywhere from 6 months to a year to perform so they still have a private insurance industry that they can buy policies out of to increase the speed of the procedure.

Plus there is the cost of it. Bernie's current plan would impose a 4% premium on everyone under 65 to pay a portion of his plan. My family plan runs about $150 a month (admittedly I have really good insurance because my wife works at a clinic). Since we are both relatively healthy, we don't usually pay much out of pocket for insurance costs so Bernies plan will likely cost us $350 a month more than what we currently pay for what seems to be a lesser plan. I don't mind paying more so others can have health insurance, but I think you will be hard pressed to find a lot of people in the same boat. Plus our current premiums are treated as a reduction of taxable wages in box 1 of the W-2. It appears Bernie's plan would not make these premium payments tax deductible so it will likely also lead to a tax increase on a lot of households.

 

[RustyShackleford]

What has it claimed to “cure” that has been exposed as fallacious? What would be the drawback that has been exposed?

M4A does little to directly address the issues with the healthcare industry, sure it nationalizes the health insurance industry, but hardly touches providers to my knowledge.

Covid-19 is exposing how easily healthcare systems can become overwhelmed, how low capacity really is. M4A if in place would stress capacity, so we are getting an idea how how poorly our system will be able to handle an increase in demand for healthcare. Also M4A will incentivizes healthy people to over consumer healthcare. So you would have health low risk people that could ride out the symptoms at home choosing to go into the ER/urgent care/hospitals to get checked out, because **** it, it's free. Which further stresses capacity

All things considered, would it be better if M4A were in place right now, of course

Would it be a panacea, nope

 

[aepps20]

Been to Casper, liked it way more than Rawlins same with Cheyenne.

West/Midwest coal bros for life

WE LIVE DA LIFE B. Rawlins only has the prison but Casper is my hometown and it is pretty solid. Not too many libs there.

 

[IATT]

 

[-Red-]

M4A does little to directly address the issues with the healthcare industry, sure it nationalizes the health insurance industry but hardly touches providers to my knowledge.

Covid-19 is exposing how easily healthcare systems can become overwhelmed, how low capacity really is. M4A if in place would stress capacity, so we are getting an idea how how poorly our system will be able to handle an increase in demand for healthcare. Also M4A will incentivizes healthy people to over consumer healthcare. So you would have health low risk people that could ride out the symptoms at home choosing to go into the ER/urgent care/hospitals to get checked out, because **** it, it's free. Which further stresses capacity

All things considered, would it be better if M4A were in place right now, of course

Would it be a panacea, nope

I mean, of course M4A wouldn't be a panacea to a global pandemic—obviously I agree.

My comment was in response to junglejim point that millions of people are getting kicked off of their employer-based healthcare coverage, and perhaps millions more will get the boot in the coming weeks/months. M4A would make it so that coverage isn't tied to employment, and we wouldn't be facing this problem. It is also very much worth noting that no other proposal for "universal" coverage would ensure this.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I mean, of course M4A wouldn't be a panacea to a global pandemic—obviously I agree.

My comment was in response to junglejim point that millions of people are getting kicked off of their employer-based healthcare coverage, and perhaps millions more will get the boot in the coming weeks/months. M4A would make it so that coverage isn't tied to employment, and we wouldn't be facing this problem. It is also very much worth noting that no other proposal for "universal" coverage would ensure this.

I am not saying it is being presented as panacea for a global pandemic. I have said multiple times that M4A, especially Sanders, present it as a cure all for the healthcare situation in America. So Covid-19 or no Covid-19, M4A doesn't solve all the issues, and there are other issues, and unintended consequences get mostly ignored.

M4A is not the only way to address the problem of people losing coverage when they lose their job. It is the solution you prefer, sure, but a public option can be easily worked to do the same thing. M4A is not the only answer.

 

[-Red-]

That's fair. I don't really know what the drawback is except for maybe start-up time. Some estimates out there show it would take up to four years to transition to a full M4A system so by the time it actually gets in place, this virus is likely long gone or there is a vaccine if it doesn't mutate frequently like the flu.

My wife works in the health care industry and both her and her doctor (who ironically came here from Canada) both frequently ***** how much of a pain in the *** it is to get basic procedures approved under the current Medicare system and I would say that largely shapes my opinion of the M4A plan. I don't know whether that would be true on a national scale or not, but I will admit that is largely skews my opinion against a forced Medicare program.

Her example was there were certain procedures that Medicare would require a EKG before even performing that no other insurance company would require so they would have to order additional tests before they can get the procedure performed which results in a longer wait time, additional testing costs, and more paper work. I also work for a company in Denmark and a lot of those people talk about how simple elective procedures can take anywhere from 6 months to a year to perform so they still have a private insurance industry that they can buy policies out of to increase the speed of the procedure.

Plus there is the cost of it. Bernie's current plan would impose a 4% premium on everyone under 65 to pay a portion of his plan. My family plan runs about $150 a month (admittedly I have really good insurance because my wife works at a clinic). Since we are both relatively healthy, we don't usually pay much out of pocket for insurance costs so Bernies plan will likely cost us $350 a month more than what we currently pay for what seems to be a lesser plan. I don't mind paying more so others can have health insurance, but I think you will be hard pressed to find a lot of people in the same boat. Plus our current premiums are treated as a reduction of taxable wages in box 1 of the W-2. It appears Bernie's plan would not make these premium payments tax deductible so it will likely also lead to a tax increase on a lot of households.

M4A would not run like current Medicare at all. It's just a way to brand the policy proposal by attaching it to an existing government healthcare program that also happens to be wildly popular (if obviously far from perfect).

My issue with critiques about wait times, extra requirements, etc. related to single-payer systems is that none of those things are inherent to single-payer system nor are they unique to single-payer systems nor are they unsolvable within the context of single-payer systems. Indeed, they are actually much more solvable within the context of a single-payer systems since they are addressed via democratic policymaking processes as opposed to being dictated by the profit motive.

As far as the costs and how to pay for M4A, there are definitely important considerations and conversation to have. But here I would just point out that I think you are in a rather unique position of paying $150 a month for a family healthcare plan. I'm paying literally double that, and I believe I'm still on the cheaper end of things. That also doesn't account for other costs related to co-pays, deductibles, etc. obviously.

 

[mplsdunk]

WE LIVE DA LIFE B. Rawlins only has the prison but Casper is my hometown and it is pretty solid. Not too many libs there.

yes, the castle prison where Hillary belongs.

yeah I didn’t get big lib vibes there. You might be from one of the few places with weather worse than minnesota.

in other news, economy is KICKING MAJOR BUTT CHEEKS! So many butt cheeks my sister in law lost her job at her ONLINE pet supply company.

must be ran by libs, everyone knows the economy is booming.

 

[junglejim]

This ******* guy is just recycling material now.

 

[elpablo21]

Easter is in 30 days?

 

[aepps20]

yes, the castle prison where Hillary belongs.

yeah I didn’t get big lib vibes there. You might be from one of the few places with weather worse than minnesota.

in other news, economy is KICKING MAJOR BUTT CHEEKS! So many butt cheeks my sister in law lost her job at her ONLINE pet supply company.

must be ran by libs, everyone knows the economy is booming.

Casper weather with that wind is BRUTAL. Sorry about your sister but she is a conservative and she had better opportunities in the mines anyway.

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

Easter is in 30 days?

Trump be like...

“Easter? I meant 4th of July when Murica celebrates its INDEPENDENCE FROM THE COVID-19!”

 

[mplsdunk]

Casper weather with that wind is BRUTAL. Sorry about your sister but she is a conservative and she had better opportunities in the mines anyway.

My sister is a lib and works at Costco. She’ll never be laid off.

my sister in law got laid off but the company was run by libs so she hated it anyways, she’ll pick up a job in the coal mines no problem. She’s actually going to burn her stimulus check because **** socialism.

 

[aepps20]

My sister is a lib and works at Costco. She’ll never be laid off.

my sister in law got laid off but the company was run by libs so she hated it anyways, she’ll pick up a job in the coal mines no problem. She’s actually going to burn her stimulus check because **** socialism.

NANCY CAN KEEP THOSE HANDOUT CHECKS. Rusty trying to buy elections with promises of UNC 3s is disgusting.

 

[deuce king]

While I appreciate what you are attempting to do. The reality is that disrespect and lies have different definitions. A lie requires an intent to deceive. Disrespect is a lack of courtesy. Using my standard for a lie to explain away disrespect creates a weak analogy.

It does not matter, as it relates to disrespect, if deuce king believes I am white. It doesn't matter, as it relates to disrespect, if it is true. What matters, as it relates to disrespect, is that I communicated that I was offended and he continued.

Let's take an example that will likely resonate:

A person on this site identifies as a female and prefers pronouns she, her and hers. She communicates with other posters that these are her preferred pronouns. The other posters, after receiving this information, continue to misgender the poster by using pronouns like he, him and his. In this scenario, it is disrespectful no matter whether the poster is actually a female or not. Even if the other posters sincerely believe that the poster is male.

This does not mean there is anything wrong with being a male. Just as a black man being offended by being called white does not suggest that there is anything wrong with being white.

Do you disagree with that example?

Very interesting how you dwalk31 have brought up my name so much recently in an effort to garner sympathy from the boards. Even though your direct statements from the past and present continue to show a lack of sympathy for other people, particularly black people as you defend Trump at all costs.

One could wonder if you care about voter suppression, one could wonder if you care about civil rights and civil protections from the federal government, one could wonder if you care about the safety of children against pedophiles, one could wonder if you hate the month of February. One could wonder all these things........but there’s no need for ME to wonder any of these things about you because I know exactly where you stand on all these matters given what you have said directly. With the answers in sequence being No, No, No, and Hell Yeah.

In general, the way a person posts, and how a person posts says a lot about that person. For some reason you’ve gotten upset with me for calling you white...(which has yet to be disproven by the way). For everybody on here, when you make a statement and post it here on the boards for all to see you are giving everyone a glimpse into who you are, what you are, and what you believe in. As I have been posting on this great board for many years folks know who I am. They can vision the person I am without every physically seeing me and what might be said every time they see the username Deuce King before they scroll down and read a post from me.

I speak out against racism of any kind towards black people...(rather People Of Color as rolaholic would say but we’ll save that for later). I want to some how make it easier for people that come after me in life just as others before me did for me to help. That’s why you being in sync with Donald Trump stride for stride and you condoning things he has said and done to black people leaves me with no other choice but to see and vision you as white. Not that me calling you white is a bad thing..........because honestly there’s no bad intent on me calling you that just so you know.

 

[mplsdunk]

NANCY CAN KEEP THOSE HANDOUT CHECKS. Rusty trying to buy elections with promises of UNC 3s is disgusting.

disgusting. This is capitalism at its best, the economy is booming, you can get a job working for bezos god making 13 dollars an hour or in the coal mines. Take your pick, freedom isn’t free. We have to make sacrifices such as our grandmas, dignity and health so we don’t end up like VENEZUELA!

See you in the coal church come Easter comrades.

 

[aepps20]

disgusting. This is capitalism at its best, the economy is booming, you can get a job working for bezos god making 13 dollars an hour or in the coal mines. Take your pick, freedom isn’t free. We have to make sacrifices such as our grandmas, dignity and health so we don’t end up like VENEZUELA!

See you in the coal church come Easter comrades.

SEE YOU THERE. GIF of our NO SOCIAL DISTANCING HANDSHAKE TO TRIGGER DA LIBS.

 

[130122]

Uncle Zel somewhere boutta buy all the Coronas on wholesale with his nancy bucks, I think he needs an intervention...

 

[IATT]

Jamal Khashoggi: All you need to know about Saudi journalist's death

Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in 2018. Here's what we know.

www.bbc.com

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]