***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

It means that voters choose representatives who will decide which laws to adopt on their behalf. A direct democracy would be like Ancient Athens, where all citizens would gather in the agora and cast votes on the city's bills.

While not a perfect example, ballot initiatives is probably the closest thing we have to direct democracy.

 

[rolaholic]

Credit to her, this is the sort of unity stuff and attitude that should be getting pushed over the next few weeks

Paul Ryan didn't come around behind 45 last time until he had practically locked up the nomination

 

[Christian Pulisic]

 

[Fozz]

Isn't he basically endorsing Pete here? lol.

 

[aepps20]

Anyone else really concerned about the virus and our government's response? Most of you will think I'm joking but the coronavirus is serious and I will break character for that. The coronavirus or liberal conjecture and innuendo is a huge threat. Clearly the Dims, Dums and Soy Bois at the debate last night were clearly infected. Free education, healthcare and other signs of the coronavirus are a huge threat. Our PRESIDENT ELECT needs to use an executive order to get the Libs OUTTA here and limit travel to Libbiefornia.

 

[Armada]

Anyone else really concerned about the virus and our government's response? Most of you will think I'm joking but the coronavirus is serious and I will break character for that. The coronavirus or liberal conjecture and innuendo is a huge threat. Clearly the Dims, Dums and Soy Bois at the debate last night were clearly infected. Free education, healthcare and other signs of the coronavirus are a huge threat. Our PRESIDENT ELECT needs to use an executive order to get the Libs OUTTA here and limit travel to Libbiefornia.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I wish there was more discussion about the filibuster in the debate. Biden and Bernie each peddling their own variety of ******** in regards to not being in favor of getting rid of it.

 

[-Red-]

This is a blanket statement, and for the record. While I don't want to get into it here, I think I know what you mean and I agree with your view on a two state solution from a moral standpoint.

Unfortunately any other solution is unrealistic.

So what is capable of bringing peace and justice if not policy ratified via the state, that is, in the halls of societal and geopolitical power?

Are peace and justice simply impossible in your eyes or is there some other mechanism through which they might be achieved?

 

[Belgium]

I wish there was more discussion about the filibuster in the debate. Biden and Bernie each peddling their own variety of bull**** in regards to no being in favor of getting rid of it.

If I recall correctly, Warren and Pete were the only ones explicitly stating the filibuster had to go

 

[RustyShackleford]

If I recall correctly, Warren and Pete were the only ones explicitly stating the filibuster had to go

Yep, they are the only two left that get it.

 

[IATT]

 

[Belgium]

So what is capable of bringing peace and justice if not policy ratified via the state, that is, in the halls of societal and geopolitical power?

Are peace and justice simply impossible in your eyes or is there some other mechanism through which they might be achieved?

Not to sound insensitive but I don't think any solution is 'workable' realistically. With Israel's comparative insurmountable power, influence and wealth, how do you get them to agree to a solution that is deemed sufficient by the Palestinians and vice versa?

 

[Belgium]

The answer is both. A compulsive liar, and that's an understatement, who also happens to be enormously ignorant.
I sometimes doubted if he really believes much of his own bs but his private conversations described in the Mueller report and the Ukraine scheme suggests he really is as ignorant as he makes himself out to be. His private remarks and directives to aides suggest he really believes the most absurd fabrications that he simply made up.

 

[gry60]

Does it mean that the people don't actually elect the president?

Notice that I mentioned direct decisions on laws, not just the electoral process. In the US we don't directly elect the president, but we directly elect the senate and the house. It's kinda unrealistic to try and replicate the Athenian model of democracy today. We should also keep in mind that in these societies (Greek and Roman), the understanding of citizenship was much more similar to the way citizenship was applied in the US before the civil war.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I don't think there is a workable solution because the internal politics of both parties involved. Israel has a disproportionate amount of power and is run by a racist hardliner. Even if he is gone, he will probably be replaced by another hardliner. Palestine from my understanding isn't even under the control of one government because of Hamas. Who will probably be hostile to any reasonable peace deal.

Oh yeah, in America we have a collection of people that think working toward a peace deal will prevent the second coming of Christ. So there will be politicial pressure in the US to undermine it.

And there are many other roadblocks. This situation is so ******.

 

[gry60]

While not a perfect example, ballot initiatives is probably the closest thing we have to direct democracy.

But they're imperfect in the sense that the legislature can simply ignore the result of the vote if it goes against their platform (with little repercussion from the electorate). Compare what has happened to various successful progressive ballot initiatives in red States vs referendums in Democratic countries: some of the stuff we've seen here would never fly in Europe. Folks would be out in the streets.

 

[IATT]

 

[RustyShackleford]

But they're imperfect in the sense that the legislature can simply ignore the result of the vote if it goes against their platform (with little repercussion from the electorate). Compare what has happened to various successful progressive ballot initiatives in red States vs referendums in Democratic countries: some of the stuff we've seen here would never fly in Europe. Folks would be out in the streets.

I agree.

I was more talking in theory than in practice. That in theory the closest thing to direct democracy in America is ballot initiatives. In practice the procedure has been corrupted in red states just like our representative system. The GOP is hostile to democracy, not matter the form.

 

[-Red-]

Not to sound insensitive but I don't think any solution is 'workable' realistically. With Israel's comparative insurmountable power, influence and wealth, how do you get them to agree to a solution that is deemed sufficient by the Palestinians and vice versa?

These were general questions in response to Brownstone 's blanket statement that "No state policy 'solution' ever brings 'peace and justice.'"

As for Israel/Palestine specifically, Israel's comparatively vast power, influence, and wealth are only possible via the support of the U.S. and other nations, which have empowered the Israel to maintain an apartheid state characterized by flagrant human rights abuses and periodic massacres and ethnic cleansing campaigns. Under these conditions, you're certainly correct that Israel will never agree to a solution deemed just by Palestine, because they can currently do whatever the **** they want with impunity. But the point is that we need to very dramatically alter the geopolitical landscape to eliminate that impunity and hold the Israeli state accountable for its crimes. If and when that happens, peace and justice have a chance.

 

[-Red-]

But they're imperfect in the sense that the legislature can simply ignore the result of the vote if it goes against their platform (with little repercussion from the electorate). Compare what has happened to various successful progressive ballot initiatives in red States vs referendums in Democratic countries: some of the stuff we've seen here would never fly in Europe. Folks would be out in the streets.

It depends. Here in Missouri, the state legislature passed a right-to-work law a few years ago, activists got a referendum placed on the ballot in 2018, and the law was defeated and overturned.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

The typical US worker can no longer afford a family on a year's salary, showing the dire state of America's middle class

The average American now needs to work 53 weeks to afford the $54,441 living costs of a family of four. There are 52 weeks in a year.

www.businessinsider.com

The typical US worker can no longer afford a family on a year's salary, showing the dire state of America's middle class

The median male US worker now has to earn over a year's salary to afford the annual expenses for a family of four, according to The Cost of Thriving Index in a new report published by conservative think tank the Manhattan Institute and previously reported by The Washington Post.

In 1985, the typical male worker needed 30 weeks' pay to afford the $13,227 required for a family of four's major living costs: housing, healthcare, transportation, and education. As of 2018, those expenditures had risen to $54,441, and our typical male has to work 53 weeks to get there (shown in the chart below). "This is a problem, as there are only 52 weeks in a year," wrote Oren Cass, the report's lead author.

The colored sections represent the four key living costs of middle class life for a family of four. Together, they add up to the total cost of thriving. The line shows the wages for a typical male worker. It's below the total cost of thriving, meaning the male worker's annual income isn't enough to cover all these costs. Andy Kiersz/Business Insider
The Index looked at data from the Bureau Labor of Statistics' estimates for the median usual weekly earnings of men older than age 25 who are employed full-time as wage and salary workers.

Cass formulated the Index on male earnings, as men are historically considered the family breadwinners. His findings for a female breadwinner are even more telling: In 1985, she needed to work 45 weeks to afford the four annual expenses, compared to 66 weeks in 2018.

The typical female worker has an even harder time than the typical male worker affording housing, healthcare, transportation, and college for a family of four. Andy Kiersz/Business Insider
Both sexes are below the total cost of thriving line in the above charts, as measured by the Manhattan Institute. This means a single-earner household is now impossible.

Living costs are outpacing wage increases
The Cost of Thriving Index points to tensions underlying the American economy, from the gender pay gap to skyrocketing living costs that have outpaced wage increases, particularly for younger generations.

Those between ages 25 and 34 have only seen a $29 income increase since 1974, when adjusted for inflation, according to a new SuperMoney report that analyzed US Census Bureau data. Adults ages 35 to 44 made nearly $2,900 more in 2017 than their 1974 counterparts did, while those ages 45 to 54 saw an income growth of nearly $5,400 over that same time period, adjusted for inflation.

Meanwhile, college tuition has more than doubled since the 1970s, bringing national student-loan debt to an all-time high of $1.5 trillion. According to Student Loan Hero, the average student-loan debt for a student who took out loans and graduated in 2018 was a whopping $29,800.

The price of home sales has increased by 39% since the 1970s and national health care costs per person have increased by $9,000 in the same time frame, according to the SuperMoney report.

The increase in so many disparate costs shows that the middle class Americans are carrying several financial burdens — they're behind on homeownership, lagging in retirement savings, and have debt to pay off, according to a previous INSIDER and Morning Consult survey.

When all the paychecks from one year don't pay off a family's living costs, our typical male will feel he's living paycheck to paycheck, but it's actually worse than that.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Notice that I mentioned direct decisions on laws, not just the electoral process. In the US we don't directly elect the president, but we directly elect the senate and the house. It's kinda unrealistic to try and replicate the Athenian model of democracy today. We should also keep in mind that in these societies (Greek and Roman), the understanding of citizenship was much more similar to the way citizenship was applied in the US before the civil war.

So the people of the United States don't elect the president and don't decide which laws are adopted? But they elect the officials who make those decisions as they please whether or not it represents the interests of the people who elected them?

 

[-Red-]

One thing that infuriates me about Pete is his constant invocation of "This is really important." *****, we the public are capable of discerning what's "really important" without you trying to beat us over the head with your ****-eating condescension.

Gimme Biden's earnest, dementia-inflected centrism over Pete's smug, entitled opportunism. **** Pete.

 

[tay1]

 

[whywesteppin]

Anyone else really concerned about the virus and our government's response? Most of you will think I'm joking but the coronavirus is serious and I will break character for that. The coronavirus or liberal conjecture and innuendo is a huge threat. Clearly the Dims, Dums and Soy Bois at the debate last night were clearly infected. Free education, healthcare and other signs of the coronavirus are a huge threat. Our PRESIDENT ELECT needs to use an executive order to get the Libs OUTTA here and limit travel to Libbiefornia.

Our best way of fighting the Corona Virus is to build a Wall along our Southern boarder.

And no, I do not want a lime either.