***Official Political Discussion Thread***



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I've recently noticed a significant uptake in political discussions about Trump around here (my country).
Certainly not to the extent of when he was elected, that was something else entirely, but after a long period inbetween of very little US political discussions people bring it up a lot more now. Even folks I don't think I've ever heard a word from about politics in general. Of course this is all anecdotal but still, it does feel a bit different in recent weeks.

For the record, Trump wasn't the first US president to evoke such a response one way or the other in this country. I remember many celebrations in both cases when Obama won. Specifically I recall getting an afternoon off that was supposed to be 4 hours of cultural sciences. Instead we basically had a roundtable discussion in the school lounge with some drinks and snacks. Folks were out in the street celebrating too. Obama was incredibly popular here throughout his presidency and still is, though he did endure some hits. The handling of Libya in particular comes to mind, the response to that was almost exclusively negative. I think most people would put that at the top of their complaints along with the NSA surveillance scandal and the rapid expansion of the drone program that began under Bush.

Trump's candidacy was initially met with exclusively ridicule and mockery along with a lot of negative reactions across the board but as the campaigns progressed you started seeing the occasional Trump supporter pop up here and there. The dominant view was obviously that Hillary or Bernie had a clear path to victory but suggesting Trump had a decent shot at winning wasn't necessarily going to get you strange looks, even in early to mid 2016. I think that is largely due to the fact that "Americans" are generally associated with a very negative stereotype here, no offense.
Don't get me wrong, many aspects of US culture are very popular here and US tourists tend to attract the most attention of all but damn near everyone thinks of the US population as largely consisting of idiots, much more so than other countries according to the popular stereotype. The stronghold of religion in the US is also frequently associated with this stereotype, probably because our current generation is very secular. In my experience that stereotype is definitely a dominant view.

Personally I take a more nuanced position and believe every country has its fair share of idiots. I think those in the US are just a lot louder and having such a large population combined with very popular aspects of US culture (media, music, ...) puts a megaphone in front of those 'idiots'. I do think social media has balanced it out a bit, we're confronted with the idiots on our side of the ocean a lot more now.

I recall suggesting in this thread that Trump had a shot at winning as early as March 2016 if my memory is correct. I didn't think he was going to win until shorly before the vote but I certainly thought he could. My reasoning was more or less based on the aforementioned stereotype. I thought to myself that you can't go broke betting on ignorance, particularly in that scenario. Therefore I wasn't all that surprised waking up the day after the election and seeing that he won.

The reactions from others however were unlike anything I've ever seen. People all over were dead *** crying at work about it. There was at least 1 person breaking out in tears over Trump's victory at the workplaces of all of my closest friends, my parents, ...
Even running errands I'd run into people crying.
People from all kinds of walks of life and ethnicities, though I should note that pretty much all were female and mostly around the ages of early to mid 20s.
You couldn't go anywhere for days without hearing conversations about Trump literally non-stop. At least in my surroundings there was a lot of anxiety about ushering in a new 'cold war' era and escalating Russian aggression.
However that anxiety slowly faded away and when Trump was brought up it was mostly to mock him. During this time the number of supporters also grew more noticeably.
Mueller's appointment quickly revived that but only to revert back to mockery over time.

I'm not sure what exactly triggered this recent significant uptake in conversations and criticisms of Trump, perhaps it is just a combination of many factors. The trade war was met with and continues to receive universal condemnation, especially because our countries have a shared interest in taking on China so perhaps that was a key moment. Something that can't just be dismissed as something that is happening on the other side of the ocean that doesn't affect us. Combined with everything else that has happened since then it looks to me as if people are finally starting to get enough and see him as just a rambling idiot surrounded by sycophants.
 
DADDYFATSACKS said:
Is Tiger semi woke? Lol
http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...calls-colin-kaepernick-nike-ad-beautiful-spot
Click to expand...
Doubt it

Nike stuck by Tiger through his buffoonery, they probably hit him and said that they knows he ****s wit Trump, but he best co-sign the ad.

Title of the email was probably "Do you want your next check to clear?.....Good.... Instructions enclosed"

Tiger probably still flying out midle aged white thots on Spirit to see him play, that boy love money. Nike knows he will choose the bag over the biscuit.
 
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I think that's the first time Barry has called Trump out by name since he's been in office.

Also, it's wild how young he looks for a former president that served 2 terms.
 

Surely the man who blurted that out to an Australian diplomat of all people would withhold that information from his campaign superiors
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/07/us/politics/george-papadopoulos-interview-trump.html
Excerpts From the New York Times Interview With George Papadopoulos
Mr. Papadopoulos said he lied to federal investigators because he wanted to protect himself and the Trump campaign from “what was probably an illegal action or dangerous information.”

George Papadopoulos, a former Trump campaign adviser, was sentenced on Friday for lying to the F.B.I. about his interactions with suspected Russian intermediaries during the 2016 presidential campaign.

Mr. Papadopoulos spoke with The New York Times this week and discussed a wide range of issues — including his foreign contacts and his interactions with the Trump campaign. The following are excerpts from that interview, as prepared by The Times.

Why he lied.
MARK MAZZETTI, New York Times reporter: Why on those points were you not telling the truth?

GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS: Because as far as I can remember, at the time — it’s hard to pin exactly what was going through my mind over an F.B.I. interview. I wanted to distance myself as much as possible and Trump himself, and the campaign from what was probably an illegal action or dangerous information.

But I also wanted to help in any way I could by providing the government with information about who told me this information about hacked emails.

MAZZETTI: So in other words you wanted to distance yourself and Trump from —

PAPADOPOULOS: And the campaign —

MAZZETTI: From what the Russians had been up to?

PAPADOPOULOS: Yes.

MAZZETTI: Because at this point it’s well known, it’s public that the F.B.I. is now investigating Trump campaign ties to Russia, Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election, etc.

PAPADOPOULOS: As far as I remember, yes, that was in the news at the time, yeah.

MAZZETTI: I’ll just sort of quote from your own lawyer’s memo, which says that you misled investigators to save his professional aspirations. Mr. Papadopoulos misled investigators to save his professional aspirations and preserve a perhaps misguided loyalty to his master. Is that an accurate description?

PAPADOPOULOS: Yes, of course.

MAZZETTI: So, you wanted a job and you wanted to protect the campaign, you wanted to protect the new president. Is that something you regret?

PAPADOPOULOS: My biggest regret, actually, is not telling the U.S. intelligence community what [Joseph] Mifsud told me actually the minute after I left that meeting in London with him. The stupidest thing I did was actually gossiping about it with foreign diplomats. Allegedly, the Australian and for sure with the Greek. And not telling the U.S. intelligence community until I was interviewed.

MAZZETTI: Because that was a — you now say that is something that you should have notified the F.B.I. or somebody about?

PAPADOPOULOS: It is. It is. Definitely. Looking back — we all make mistakes in life, you know and that’s — I really hope for it — to redeem myself in the eyes of my fellow countrymen, here in the United States. But I do really regret not telling the F.B.I. immediately after that because I probably would have saved a lot of problems for the world, at this point, considering I was perhaps the light that created this conflagration.
Click to expand...

On joining the Trump campaign.
MAZZETTI: Were you surprised when you got a call to interview for the Trump campaign?

PAPADOPOULOS: I wasn’t really surprised because I’d let them know very early on that I was interested in joining them. Like I said, I think it was June 2015 and I had just — I was still working at the Hudson Institute at the time. I left Hudson in September of 2015. I think my work in the Middle East, and in the eastern Mediterranean publications I’ve written in and conferences, I’ve spoken out, really spoke volumes, about my particular expertise in that part of the world. So I wasn’t really shocked, but of course I was honored.

MAZZETTI: The memo that your lawyers have put together says that you were told pretty early on in the campaign that one of the goals of the campaign was to foster better relations with Russia. Why were you told that was a goal?

PAPADOPOULOS: I mean, I think Mr. Trump throughout the campaign season was very vocal about his desire to have, at least, a working relationship with President Putin should he eventually become president of the United States. It wasn’t a secret. Especially by the time I joined the campaign in March of 2016. So I wasn’t shocked at all when my supervisor, during my interview with him over Skype, told me that this is part of what this campaign is about.

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MAZZETTI: And what was the extent, if any, of your experience dealing with Russia?

PAPADOPOULOS: I had no background dealing with Russia.
Click to expand...

On the March 2016 meeting of Trump’s foreign policy team.
MAZZETTI: This is the first meeting of the foreign policy team. During that meeting, what happens?

PAPADOPOULOS: During that meeting I — actually preceding that meeting, I had notified the campaign that I was in touch with Professor Mifsud and that he was interested in arranging a meeting between Trump and Putin.

So it wasn’t a shock when I went into the meeting on March 31 and elucidated things it a more clear way that I could potentially organize a meeting between President or candidate Trump and Prime Minister Putin.

MAZZETTI: And what was the reaction of the meeting when you brought this up?

PAPADOPOULOS: The reaction was mixed. I mean, you know, of course, there were some scholars from conservative think tanks at the time at the Heritage Foundation, and others that you know nodded in disapproval, they shook their heads. But at that time, I really wasn’t interested in what the other participants wanted.

I just wanted to hear what the two principals wanted to say, and it seemed at the meeting that candidate Trump was at least open to this. Though he wasn’t committed either way, but he nodded and deferred to Jeff Sessions who I remember being actually quite enthusiastic about a potential meeting between then-candidate Trump and Putin.

MAZZETTI: So they’re sitting opposite sides of the table and you’re trying to gauge their reaction?

PAPADOPOULOS: Yes.

MAZZETTI: And you said Sessions seemed quite enthusiastic about the prospect.

PAPADOPOULOS: Yes.

MAZZETTI: And Trump nodded.

PAPADOPOULOS: Nodded — noncommittal, but I mean, of course, to defer to Jeff Sessions and to ask Jeff’s opinion. The way I saw it was, at least, he was perhaps open to the idea, but he wanted to defer to what was then a very senior senator in the Congress.
Click to expand...

On the meeting with a suspected Russian operative.
MAZZETTI: In late April, you meet again with Mifsud. And was Olga [Polonskaya] there?

PAPADOPOULOS: No, it was just the two of us. I believe, the preceding week, he told me he was attending meetings at the Valdai or at the Duma or something like that, and that he would be back next week and that we should meet in London, where I was living at the time, and he was living, too.

And we met at the Andaz hotel by Liverpool Street Station. And at that infamous meeting is where he told me that he had information that the Russians had thousands of Hillary Clinton’s emails. I never heard the word “Podesta,” “DNC.” I just heard “Hillary Clinton’s emails.”

MAZZETTI: He said actually her emails.

PAPADOPOULOS: Her emails, yeah.

MAZZETTI: And what did he then say they were going to do with it?

PAPADOPOULOS: That I don’t remember. I just remember that he said, he stated, in a categorical fashion, that the Russians have thousands of Hillary Clinton’s emails. I don’t remember what else he said about them afterwards.

MAZZETTI: So what’s your reaction to that?

PAPADOPOULOS: Initially, I felt that he was validating a rumor, because at the time, contrary to popular belief, there are were people talking about it in the international media that perhaps Hillary Clinton’s private server was compromised by foreign intelligence. So, of course, I was shocked because this is, you know, he’s talking about a potential crime, or it was a crime, but I had also heard rumors in the media at the time.
Click to expand...

Whom he told about the potential dirt on Hillary Clinton.
MAZZETTI: But you know, so, you don’t remember — you don’t remember ever telling anyone, emailing anyone, messaging anyone, “Hey, there’s a bunch of dirt about Hillary Clinton. This could help the campaign.” Anything like that?

PAPADOPOULOS: I have no recollection of that at all, no.

MAZZETTI: Some might think that, the way you’re phrasing this, makes it sound like you’re leaving yourself some wiggle room. Saying, “I have no recollection.”

PAPADOPOULOS: That’s all I can say. I mean, actually, and the reason why I don’t know how much wiggle room — I don’t think I’m really leaving myself any wiggle room at all because probably 99 percent of my communication with the campaign was over email. You know, I was living in London. You know, I met some officials face to face very briefly. So the place I would have potentially sent this information — I think it’s public — I mentioned to Stephen Miller I’m receiving interesting messages from Moscow about a meeting, when the time is right. That was the same day that I had received that information. I think I had a scheduled call with Miller that same day, never went through, and perhaps that’s where it went. It just stayed in my mind.

MAZZETTI: One of the things that seems the most puzzling out of this whole Trump-Russia story is that you’re told about this pretty explosive information. It is information that would no doubt help the Trump campaign. You wanted to help the Trump campaign. You were very eager to gain, cement, a place in the campaign. And yet, you say you didn’t tell anyone about it but you did tell the Austrian diplomat and the Greek foreign minister. Seems strange for people to sort of —

PAPADOPOULOS: I allegedly told the Australian, and I certainly told the Greek foreign minister, but let’s not forget, though, at the time I was shuffling between Europe quite frequently. I wasn’t at a campaign headquarters, where I would have the opportunity to sit down and probably talk with campaign heads. So, I actually I don’t find it shocking that I wouldn’t have told them something like this, considering my interactions with the campaign was, as I stated, probably 99 percent done via email. And maybe — you never know — maybe if the call between myself and Stephen Miller occurred that day, I would have told him. But that call never went through, and we’re left with receiving interesting messages from Moscow. It’s how fate works sometimes, I guess.
Click to expand...

On the meeting with an Australian diplomat.
MAZZETTI: Going back to the meeting with [Alexander] Downer. What were you guys drinking?

PAPADOPOULOS: I think I had a gin and tonic.

MAZZETTI: Did you drink a number of gin and tonics? How much did you drink?

PAPADOPOULOS: No, I think I had one or two drinks. I think Downer himself, in numerous interviews, kept explaining that we had one drink or two drinks. No one was drunk, as some articles stated that we might have been. At least I don’t remember being drunk. I don’t think he was drunk. I don’t think his assistant was drunk. I think we had a couple drinks, that we were just talking.

MAZZETTI: In interviews, Downer has said that — besides having one drink — he has said that you brought up the Russian dirt on Hillary Clinton.

PAPADOPOULOS: I don’t remember talking about that with him at all.

MAZZETTI: So, you don’t remember, at any point in that meeting, talking about Russia dirt and Hillary Clinton?

PAPADOPOULOS: I don’t remember that at all, actually.
Click to expand...

On setting up a meeting between Trump and Putin.
MAZZETTI: So then what became, ultimately, became of your efforts to secure a meeting between Trump and Putin?

PAPADOPOULOS: As far as I remember, Ivan Timofeev basically stated to me that, you know, you are invited to come meet George, you are invited to Moscow to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where you should meet with the head of our North American division. I, of course, I have never met Ivan and I have never traveled to Russia in my life. And he then stated that, look, they’re interested, Putin would be interested in this meeting, but we need an approval from your campaign.

And as far as I remember, I sent the email to Corey Lewandowski from Ivan. He then stated that we should talk about it. That call never happened because, I think, he was traveling at the time and — then I sent, after he was fired, to Paul Manafort, where I said, look, do you want to do this or not? And apparently, Paul Manafort never was interested in this potential meeting between Trump and Putin and I had — as far as I remember, that was the last time I ever discussed it with the campaign.
Click to expand...
 
Personally I wouldn't even pledge to not take corporate PAC donations.
The way I'd look at it their money is better off in my pockets than theirs.
I see not taking those donations as more of a PR measure than anything, though a good one at that.
 
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