***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[EddieDoyers]

Nice opinion piece on what has happened so far this week

 

[RustyShackleford]

You couldn’t hold a candle to Cornell stop.

When the **** did I ever claim to be the interlectual he is? Please quote me saying as such.

Spare me your shtick dude. West has good points but he mixes them with nonsense, bad faith critques and a clear personal issues he has with Obama.

If any other black public figure gets big and doesn't come kiss his feet, he throws bad faith shade.

But I know in one area I am smarter than West in, I was not dumb enough to shill for Jill the Scammer Stein.

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

When the **** did I ever claim to be the interlectual he is? Please quote me saying as such.

Spare me your shtick dude. West has good points but he mixes them with nonsense, bad faith critques and a clear personal issues he has with Obama.

If any other black public figure gets big and doesn't come kiss his feet, he throws bad faith shade.

But I know in one area I am smarter than West in, I was not dumb enough to shill for Jill the Scammer Stein.

You stay trying to downplay him though. Did you even read the article I posted?

 

[Belgium]

Manafort takes another L, continuing an unwavering streak of failure since his first indictment.
Mueller's prosecutors are also requesting immunity for 5 witnesses who have refused to testify in order to not incriminate themselves. The motions are under seal to protect the identities of the witnesses and prevent harassment.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...11bc1146b0b_story.html?utm_term=.e052676da1a1
Judge refuses to move Paul Manafort trial to Roanoke
Paul Manafort’s upcoming trial on bank and fraud charges will continue in Alexandria, Va., despite his efforts to move the proceedings to Roanoke.
The former Trump campaign chairman had argued that the jury pool in Northern Virginia is too liberal and too saturated with coverage of the case to give him a fair trial.
Judge T.S. Ellis III ruled Tuesday that Manafort is not entitled to a completely ignorant jury, nor one with as many Republicans as Democrats. Moreover, the nationwide coverage of the case would make any move ineffectual

“The proximity of defendant’s pretrial publicity to the start of his trial will be the same in Alexandria as it would be in Roanoke or Kansas City or Dallas,” the judge wrote.

That media attention, he added, has not risen to the “carnival or circus atmosphere” that warrants a change of venue.

Manafort served as campaign chairman for several months, and he is being prosecuted as part of the special counsel’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. The Alexandria area has far more voters who opposed the president’s election than reside around Roanoke. But Ellis said any bias against Manafort will be weeded out through jury selection.

“There is no evidence at this time that jurors in this Division are biased,” he wrote.

Meanwhile, prosecutors are busily preparing for trial, filing motions Tuesday to compel five unnamed witnesses to testify under immunity from prosecution.

All five have refused to testify so as not to incriminate themselves; if Ellis approves these orders, what they say cannot be used against them.

The motions are sealed and the government will not name the witnesses unless they are called to testify.

“The five individuals identified in the motions at issue are third parties who have not been charged in this matter, and who have not been identified publicly with the case,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Uzo Asonye wrote. “The motions would reveal those individuals’ involvement . . . thereby creating the risk of their undue harassment.”

In both Alexandria and the District of Columbia federal court, where Manafort has another trial scheduled for September, he is accused of hiding his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine as well as the money he made from that work.

A hearing is scheduled for Monday to go over what evidence will be allowed.

Spoiler

 

[AEA18]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/...s-to-disclose-donors.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
I.R.S. Will No Longer Force Kochs and Other Groups to Disclose Donors
The Trump administration will end a longstanding requirement that certain nonprofit organizations disclose the names of large donors to the Internal Revenue Service, a move that will allow some political groups to shield their sources of funding from government scrutiny.
The change, which has long been sought by conservatives and Republicans in Congress, will affect thousands of labor unions, social clubs and political groups as varied as arms of the AARP, the United States Chamber of Commerce, the National Rifle Association and Americans for Prosperity, which is funded partly by the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You stay trying to downplay him though. Did you even read the article I posted?

I read the article.

And I criticize him on his actions I view are in bad faith. And if you noticed, I'm not the only one that is critical of some of his actions. Even other black interlectuals some of his friends call him out too.

His major claims in the article are either a strawmen and or horrible attempt to equate Obama and Trump.

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

I read the article.

And I criticize him on his actions I view are in bad faith. And if you noticed, I'm not the only one that is critical of some of his actions. Even other black interlectuals some of his friends call him out too.

His major claims in the article are either a strawmen and or horrible attempt to equivocate Obama and Trump.

Obama wasn’t a Neo-liberal?

 

[Belgium]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...justice/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5c11e230f018
In his prepared remarks, Trump removed a line about bringing election hackers to justice
In preparation for a public statement meant to mitigate the damage from Monday’s news conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin, President Trump brought four pages of handwritten notes to a meeting with congressional leaders. In his own distinctive scrawl — using, as always, a black fine-tip marker — Trump added notes to the prepared comments. And in several instances, he struck out things he planned to skip.

You can see the four pages here, upside down and often blurry. (images in article, text and annotations in quote below)

Zooming in on Brenner’s photograph does seem to bolster Southpaw’s assertion. The first three paragraphs of the second page of the document read:

“in saying — as I have said before — that I ACCEPT our intelligence community’s conclusions about Russia’s meddling in the 2016 elections.” [Here Trump added, “There was no colusion."]

“I thought I made that clear yesterday, but having just reviewed the transcript of yesterday’s press conference, I realized that there is the need for further clarification. In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word ‘WOULD’ instead of ‘WOULDN’T.’ The sentence should have been: ‘I don’t see any reason why it WOULDN’T be Russia’ — a double negative.”

“I have on numerous occasions noted our intelligence findings that Russians attempted to interfere in our elections. Anyone involved in that meddling to justice. [This line is struck.] Unlike previous Administrations, my Administration has [crossed-out and illegible] and will continue to move aggressively to repel any efforts to interfere in our elections. We are doing everything in our power to prevent Russian interference in 2018. So there is no ambiguity, we have the best intelligence professionals in the world — as I have said many times — and I believe the findings of my intelligence people.”


This isn’t what Trump actually said. He actually said:

“… let me be totally clear in saying that — and I’ve said this many times — I accept our intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election took place.”

“Could be other people also. A lot of people out there. There was no collusion at all, and people have seen that and they’ve seen that strongly. The House has already come out very strongly on that, a lot of people have come out strongly on that. …”

“The sentence should have been, ‘I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia.’ Sort of a double negative. So you can put that in, and I think that probably clarifies things pretty good by itself. I have on numerous occasions noted our intelligence findings that Russians attempted to interfere in our elections. Unlike previous administrations, my administration has and will continue to move aggressively to repeal any efforts and repel — we will stop it, we will repel it, any efforts to interfere in our elections. We’re doing everything in our power to prevent Russian interference in 2018.”


There are other changes to the document, too.

On the first page — at left in Brenner’s tweet or as above — Trump added, “for years, relations could not have [illegible] worse.”

When speaking, he said:

“I’ve always felt getting along is a positive thing and not just for that reason. I entered the meeting with the firm conviction that diplomacy and engagement is better than hostility and conflict, and I feel that with everybody.”

“We have 29 members in NATO as an example, and I have great relationships or at least very good relationships with everybody. The press covered it quite inaccurately, they said I insulted people. Well, if asking for people to pay up money that they are supposed to pay is insulting, maybe I did.”

“But I can tell you when I left, everybody was thrilled, and that’s the way this was, too. My meeting with President Putin was really interesting in so many different ways, because we haven’t had relationships with Russia for a long time and we started.”

On the third page, after another reminder in the typewritten text that there was “NO COLLUSION,” Trump struck out a paragraph reading, “Now I understand there are some in Washington who don’t want diplomacy. This rejection of diplomacy is the same mindset that dragged us into Iraq and Libya.” It’s followed by another line that is crossed out. It appears to read, “Any fool can start a war, but real [illegible] is forging peace.”

Then there’s the note on the fourth page, the last note after the last line of a statement meant to settle, once and for all, Trump’s views of his intelligence officials. The prepared remarks end, “Now, on to our discussion of taxes.” It’s followed by a note in Trump’s hand reading, “Taxes 2 point 0 — permanent middle class tax cuts.”

That line wasn’t included in Trump’s comments before the media, either.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Obama wasn’t a Neo-liberal?

What is a neo-liberal? I want a firm definition. You and West can just use the word as an ad homimen.

Obama's record is mixed on policies that favor labor and capitial. West loves to ignore the **** that undercuts his argument.

Obama himself, his hardcore supporters, or his wider base are not equating Obama and Mandela.

If you give both Trump and Obama a supportive supermajority, the policies they would pass would be extremely different. It would not just be a difference is tone.

There are legitimate criticism to be made of Obama but West always runs to the hyperbole.

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

What is a neo-liberal? I want a firm definition. You and West can just use the word as an ad homimen.

Obama's record is mixed on policies that favor labor and capitial. West loves to ignore the **** that undercuts his argument.

Obama himself, his hardcore supporters, or his wider base are not equating Obama and Mandela.

If you give both Trump and Obama a supportive supermajority, the policies they would pass would be extremely different. It would not just be a difference is tone.

There are legitimate criticism to be made of Obama but West always runs to the hyperbole.

A neoliberal Someone who is pro big-business/Wall Street, pro war, someone who can give a damn about the poor and working class. An elitist basically.

 

[boris]

We all look bad together ... if you go to a foreign country and show your passport you'll get the same hate that I will receive.. we gotta stick together as a country and if the ship goes down we all go down together . When we rise up we all rise up together

Just to be clear, you deliberately tried to sink the ship for your own personal gain, but now we gotta stick together?

 

[RustyShackleford]

A neoliberal Someone who is pro big-business/Wall Street, pro war, someone who can give a damn about the poor and working class. An elitist basically.

Even if we accept that definition.

That does not describe Barrack Obama.

 

[Belgium]

Man what
http://time.com/5341460/arizona-sta...cial&utm_campaign=time&utm_source=twitter.com
Arizona State Senate Candidate Reveals He Killed His Mother in 1963
A Republican Arizona state Senate candidate is shocking gun control advocates by sharing details about shooting and killing his mother in apparent self-defense more than 50 years ago.
Bobby Wilson says he shot and killed his mother after she shot at him with a rifle one night in their Oklahoma farmhouse in 1963. The Arizona Republic reported that Wilson was initially put in jail, but the case was eventually dismissed.
Wilson told some of his story at a Moms Demand Action forum in Tucson last week while speaking to the importance of a “good guy with a gun.” He didn’t say the person he killed was his mother.
Rep. Daniel Hernandez, a Democrat who was present at the forum, said he was confused and concerned by Wilson’s admissions.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news...senate-candidate-killed-his-mother/790288002/

Excerpt:
Newspaper, court accounts of killings are much different
Details reported at the time in a local newspaper, in addition to court records from Wilson's case, both differ significantly in numerous regards from Wilson's account to The Republic.
The Choctaw County Weekly, a publication that compiled articles from multiple area papers, published several stories about the events in the days following the deaths and fire.
The Choctow County District Court Clerk's Office also provided records about Wilson's case.

Court records list Wilson's last name as Wiste. Wilson said that was because his mother — who was a widow — had the family living under an assumed last name. He said he later changed his last name to Wilson.

According to the June 20, 1963, edition of the Choctaw County Weekly, after the fire at the house was extinguished, a water truck sprayed the site of the burned house to allow funeral workers to remove the remains.
According to the newspaper, the charred bodies of Lavonne and Judy Wilson were found lying together in bed "in a 'perfectly relaxed' position, indicating they died in their sleep from suffocation."

Initially, authorities anticipated no foul play was involved, but they proceeded with an investigation.

One week later, the paper reported that Wilson had confessed to murdering his mother and sister.

The paper said Wilson led officers to where he buried the rifle used to kill them.

After prompting by his boss at the meat market, "Bobby reflected a moment, and then slowly added that last jigsaw piece with this account — a story already put together by officers, needing only his stamp of authenticity," the Weekly wrote.

Wilson admitted to shooting his mother, according to the paper. Then, when his sister ran at him, he crushed her skull with his rifle butt. He placed the bodies on the bed, poured gas around the house and lit a match, the paper reported.

"It was Sheriff Thornton's tenacious insistence that the bodies be sent to the state crime bureau for examination that spoiled what otherwise could easily have been the perfect crime," the Weekly reported. "Reports showed death came prior to the fire and from causes that later proved completely accurate."

Wilson was tried on homicide charges.

Court records show that three years after he was charged with the murders, Wilson filed with the court for "mental incapacity to make a rational defense."

He claimed he suffered from amnesia during the time of the allegations, and with no clear memory of the night's events, was unable to plan his defense with attorneys or tell his side of the story.

The court ordered a jury to decide whether evidence supported Wilson's claims of memory loss.

Four days later, the jury returned its verdict: Wilson indeed suffered from amnesia, they said. The judge ruled Wilson was thus "not capable of proceeding to trial and making a rational defense."

The case was "suspended" until Wilson could regain enough memory to defend himself, the judge said.

Seven years later, in late 1973, Wilson moved to dismiss entirely the charges against him.

According to court filings, his attorney argued that because the district attorney, state and district court had taken no action in seven years, he had been "deprived of his right to speedy trial." He added that his witnesses were no longer available because they had died. He motioned for all charges to be dismissed.

The court dismissed his case.

 

[chao7]

Man what
http://time.com/5341460/arizona-sta...cial&utm_campaign=time&utm_source=twitter.com
Arizona State Senate Candidate Reveals He Killed His Mother in 1963
A Republican Arizona state Senate candidate is shocking gun control advocates by sharing details about shooting and killing his mother in apparent self-defense more than 50 years ago.
Bobby Wilson says he shot and killed his mother after she shot at him with a rifle one night in their Oklahoma farmhouse in 1963. The Arizona Republic reported that Wilson was initially put in jail, but the case was eventually dismissed.
Wilson told some of his story at a Moms Demand Action forum in Tucson last week while speaking to the importance of a “good guy with a gun.” He didn’t say the person he killed was his mother.
Rep. Daniel Hernandez, a Democrat who was present at the forum, said he was confused and concerned by Wilson’s admissions.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news...senate-candidate-killed-his-mother/790288002/

Excerpt:
Newspaper, court accounts of killings are much different
Details reported at the time in a local newspaper, in addition to court records from Wilson's case, both differ significantly in numerous regards from Wilson's account to The Republic.
The Choctaw County Weekly, a publication that compiled articles from multiple area papers, published several stories about the events in the days following the deaths and fire.
The Choctow County District Court Clerk's Office also provided records about Wilson's case.

Elect a man who literally shot his own mother in cold blood to own the libs.

 

[aepps20]

Elect a man who literally shot his own mother in cold blood to own the libs.

It sometimes be your own family that need to be dealt a dose of #SmashMouthPolitics.

 

[IATT]

 

[Brownstone]

Cornell West's hating self still looking for attention.

Eh, I read the article, aside from saying Obama committed war crimes (which caused an eye roll from me) He seems dead on the nose.

I consider Obama one of my heroes, but revolutionary is not a word I would describe him as.

I also agree that he seems scorned. Stating the differences between him and Trump was a short list.

 

[Belgium]

Daily Beast alleges that the US congressman mentioned in the Maria Butina indictment is Rohrabacher.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/maria-butina-russia-nra-spy-charges-touch-reps-rohrabacher-meeks (quite lengthy article)
‘Putin’s Favorite Congressman’ Now Engulfed in NRA Spy Case
Maria Butina allegedly helped her Russian handler meet with a congressional delegation in August 2015. That’s when these lawmakers—one Democrat, one Republican—were in Russia.
Pro-Kremlin GOP Congressman Dana Rohrabacher met with a Putin ally in Russia in August 2015, The Daily Beast has confirmed, matching an account in Monday’s blockbuster FBI affidavit against accused Russian spy Maria Butina.
Butina was part of “discussions about the RUSSIAN OFFICIAL’s plans to meet with a U.S. Congressman during a Congressional Delegation trip to Moscow in August 2015,” FBI agent Kevin Helson’s affidavit swears. “In that conversation, BUTINA noted she has the RUSSIAN OFFICIAL’s diplomatic passport and can purchase a plane ticket for him from St. Petersburg to Moscow.”

The official is widely believed to be Alexander Torshin, an influential former Russian politician from Vladimir Putin’s party who established trans-continental ties to the National Rifle Association.

 

[northoaklandfc]

I have this to say in football American terms :

If you're not with us at 1-15 then don't come back to us when we're 16-0 and winning the superbowl and on top of the world again .

We all look bad together ... if you go to a foreign country and show your passport you'll get the same hate that I will receive.. we gotta stick together as a country and if the ship goes down we all go down together . When we rise up we all rise up together

If you're not a troll then you're genuinely psychotic.

 

[biggie62]

We all look bad together ... if you go to a foreign country and show your passport you'll get the same hate that I will receive.. we gotta stick together as a country and if the ship goes down we all go down together . When we rise up we all rise up together

No that’s when I whip out my EU passport and say screw that.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Eh, I read the article, aside from saying Obama committed war crimes (which caused an eye roll from me) He seems dead on the nose.

I consider Obama one of my heroes, but revolutionary is not a word I would describe him as.

I also agree that he seems scorned. Stating the differences between him and Trump was a short list.

I disagree with him being on the nose.

Like I said, no one really is equating Obama to Mandela. There is no argument for West to push back on. He is arguing against a strawman.

 

[EddieDoyers]

 

[elpablo21]

 

[whywesteppin]

honestly though she probably just thought of it as a nice gesture.

 

[storm2006]

Yo this man DJT really has grown *** men making got damb sentence diagrams on live television. What. A. Time.