***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Coupé It]

Ignoring what?

Mitt Romney did not make a substantive argument one way or the other on any topic.

Thats not winning to me.

I don't watch debates to see who looks better. I don't have time to worry about tone and appearance.

If we're talking facts, there is only one winner here. 

Future. Do I have to keep repeating this to you? Over and over? No need for you to play devils advocate here.

America is not like you, America doesn't have the same focus or intelligence you may have. America believes Romney won this debate, that's what matters. Therefor Romney did a good job. He won the debate, he did what he needed to do to get back into this race.

 

[futuremd]

Dude is blaming Obama for the lack of bipartisan basis. LOL. 

obama care was a party line vote though....

Do you know why?

Thats why that claim is such ********.

Of course in MA Romney could work along party lines. People weren't trying to put their feet out to trip him up. 

Are you blind to how much **** Obama went through just to pass the initial bill? 

It BECAME Romneycare...which is a late 80s republican idea. It started as universal healthcare.

I don't even like Obamacare because it falls short of where we need to be. 

Its damn near apart of the party platform to NOT work with Obama. 

Do you know who Grover Norquist is and the vice-grip he has on the balls of all those elephants in congress?

AND THEN...

When asked about it, Romney says well the ONLY difference is that some people with (D) next to their name voted for my plan.

HE IGNORED THE FACT THAT THE PLANS ARE THE SAME...OBVIOUSLY THE GLARING OMISSION.

obama has no one to blame but himself on why da public option didn't survive da affordable care act.

No. You can thank the Tea Party for that. 

isn't of taking those blue dog democrats feet and put em in da fire PERSONALLY he just fell back and let pelosi and reid crave out da framework of da bill

and he fell back.

That has nothing to do with the public option, and frankly they weren't responsible for the loss of the public option either. 

democrats had a supermajority in congress AND senate. and his OWN PARTY gutted da bill because they didn't have da cojones to stand up

to da GOP fillerbustering and conservative democrats playing hard ball asking for kickbacks to vote yes when they should've just did so without da drama.

Wait. Now you're saying Obama should have just accepted an even WORSE deal? 

The fillerbustering(sp?) has happened at an UNPRECEDENTED level and you're telling him to just suck it up?

The GOP is the reason we have a crappy healthcare bill in the first place...but its better than NO healthcare bill

thats ALL obama's fault because he lacked leadership in those instances.

then those same blue dog dems got SLAUGHTERED in 2010 with da tea party wave getting swept in.

Holy hell you're being daft.

Is your memory that short?

Lacking leadership?

The dude went to congress and damn near begged them to try and work with him and they still said no.

the GOP is NOT interested in working across the aisles. Stop acting like this was even going to happen. 

 

[scuse7]

Mits is the ****

 

[futuremd]

chris mathews from MSNBC even said obama lost...da rest of ya need to just suck it up, and hope big O put up a better fight for round 2.

This **** is a joke. Now I remember.

ya'll would rather concede "defeat/victory" based on what pundits say instead of your own damn opinions.

I like Matthews. I like Maher. I like Maddow. I like Blitzer. I like Shep Smith. I like some. I dislike others.

BUT THEIR OPINION MEANS NOTHING TO ME. They're not telling me a story. They're sharing their opinions. 

As such, Romney lost the debate to me because of his lack of substantive issues and ability to formulate actual thorough stances on any issues. 

This is Genius by Romney. By having had every position under the sun and being vague for months he can basically say anything he wants to say. Obama has to stand on record.

This is a counterpoint to the empty chair/Clint Eastwood. Romney has become the empty chair. You can't debate an empty chair and win.

 

[blco02]

Obama got killed. The facts will always hurt him.

 

[lyonbc1]

I think the President's strategy may be to go harder on attacking Romney in the later debates closer to election time....once those come around this 1st one will be distant in most people's memories...people will remember what happened most recently and Biden will crush Ryan b/c Ryan can't help but come of as insincere and unwilling to answer questions about how his policies will affect elderly, vets, college kids....Biden has been Barack's attack dog or "bad cop" to his good cop, look at their DNC speeches as example.

I don't think Romney mopped the floor with him, he stated several things that literally don't add up at all..Barack could have attacked and pressed the issue more than he did for sure, but I really think he'll be more assertive and less "rigid" if you will, closer to the regular voting time..in the "eye test" sure Romney was more aggressive and dominant in his tone, borderline disrespectful too (at least to the moderator) but that tends to be what the media will focus on, who "looked better" not who made more salient points and was more composed...being louder is usually what people pay attention to, look at any argument the more composed person always looks like they're down b/c they're not all out on the attack....Mitt HAS to be like that, Barack doesn't need to go all out 100% of the time taking Mitt's platform apart..but I'm confident he'll take on more of an assertive approach in the next 2 debates tho b/c you can't keep losing in the court of public opinion and expect to have the election handed to you

I just don't get all this emphasis on these "independents who are STILL undecided" like Bill Maher said, these 6% of people aren't some holy, all knowing, intelligent individuals who are taking time to consider all the relevant facts involved here...they're just clueless and will vote on a popularity scale in the end...and will probably end up relying on the attack ads and these debates where candidates can say whatever they want to make a decision, nevermind the policy or looking to see if the facts were correctly stated by either candidate.

 

[ninjahood]

tea party wasn't in power prior to 2010

i place da blame of da public option being taken off da table SQUARELY on obama.

if he was gonna go gangsta and push thru legislation without ANY GOP support, there was he could've fumbled that unless it was da doing of his OWN PARTY.

failed leadership in that instance is what killed him then and its what killed him in da debate tonight.

 

[Coupé It]

This **** is a joke. Now I remember.

ya'll would rather concede "defeat/victory" based on what pundits say instead of your own damn opinions.

I like Matthews. I like Maher. I like Maddow. I like Blitzer. I like Shep Smith. I like some. I dislike others.

BUT THEIR OPINION MEANS NOTHING TO ME. They're not telling me a story. They're sharing their opinions. 

As such, Romney lost the debate to me because of his lack of substantive issues and ability to formulate actual thorough stances on any issues. 

This is Genius by Romney. By having had every position under the sun and being vague for months he can basically say anything he wants to say. Obama has to stand on record.

This is a counterpoint to the empty chair/Clint Eastwood. Romney has become the empty chair. You can't debate an empty chair and win.

Okay. Obama won in your opinion. We know why, you've stated so numerous times.

But the percentages in America show, Romney won the debate. That's what matters most bro. That's what you have to accept. No need to spin that, it is what it is.

 

[airuphere23]

pretty much this has turned into a style vs. substance debate....I applaud those who can properly discern between the 2, which one is more important to real issues in American political debate. Again, how people can gratify an aggressive minded half truth spewing Mitt Romney as a winner is beyond me...guy could hardly keeb tabs on his political stances on issues throughout his entire career.

 

[futuremd]

Obama got killed. The facts will always hurt him.

...What?

 

[still itachi]

Okay. Obama won in your opinion. We know why, you've stated so numerous times.
But the percentages in America show, Romney won the debate. That's what matters most bro. That's what you have to accept. No need to spin that, it is what it is.

This is what's wrong with America.

Future MD is correct.  Whatever you're affiliation, the win/lose should be based on articulately stating positions / stances on issues that are important to the American people, not how 'aggressive' you were.  

We're not comparing NBA point guards, we're supposedly gaining value insight into the two would-be presidents of the next 4 years.  What does aggression have to do with anything?

 

[gatzbygordon]

wow, mitt once again fails, gives no details what exactly he is going to do and shows how out of touch he is with the rest of the country.

 

[Coupé It]

pretty much this has turned into a style vs. substance debate....I applaud those who can properly discern between the 2, which one is more important to real issues in American political debate. Again, how people can gratify an aggressive minded half truth spewing Mitt Romney as a winner is beyond me...guy could hardly keeb tabs on his political stances on issues throughout his entire career.

Nope, that's were you're mistaken again. Throughout the history of PD's, style has always been most important. This didn't just happen, it's always been like that. It's like Hollywood.

If you can't see how Romney won with the American public tonight it's pretty much useless. You are who you are and that's most likely a left-winger whose always going to side with his principles. So no need to badger people who are trying to be honest.

 

[elpablo21]

Obama got killed. The facts will always hurt him.

...What?

 

[futuremd]

wow, mitt once again fails, gives no details what exactly he is going to do and shows how out of touch he is with the rest of the country.

Thats the thing.

Mitt has NO details, so he can effectively stun Obama by making him look stupid by rejecting EVERYTHING, changing his views on EVERYTHING, straw-manning EVERYTHING, and never have to be responsible for anything EVER.

Mitt cheated the entire time. 

Its like debating with someone who doesn't understand something. They just keep coming up with ridiculous arguments and you spend all your time trying to answer the previous flaw and you just dig yourself into a deeper hole when you're the more experienced candidate.

You're sitting there wondering how someone could say something so stupid, meanwhile your opponent has moved on to a topic that makes NO sense.

 

[futuremd]

pretty much this has turned into a style vs. substance debate....I applaud those who can properly discern between the 2, which one is more important to real issues in American political debate. Again, how people can gratify an aggressive minded half truth spewing Mitt Romney as a winner is beyond me...guy could hardly keeb tabs on his political stances on issues throughout his entire career.

Nope, that's were you're mistaken again. Throughout the history of PD's, style has always been most important. This didn't just happen, it's always been like that. It's like Hollywood.

If you can't see how Romney won with the American public tonight it's pretty much useless. You are who you are and that's most likely a left-winger whose always going to side with his principles. So no need to badger people who are trying to be honest.

Style is important to YOU.

I could care less if we elect quasimoto. 

If the dudes fundamentals are wack, we need to know it.

Ya'll would rather look at magazine ads with the guy than let him show you how to run things. 

Disgusting. 

 

[gatzbygordon]

and everyone talking about romney winning cause of his body language and w/e obviously dont know that it kinda drains you to be president.. barack is just not out there telling stories about what he's going to do he is actually working, alot of you seem to forget that obama is our current president and you owe your cushy lifestyle to this man, you really think mc cain would of kept this country going in the right direction?? or even have gotten us this far? paid to help us those less fortunate go to college killed osama..yeah right by now all the stress we would have president palin.

 

[Coupé It]

This is what's wrong with America.

Future MD is correct.  Whatever you're affiliation, the win/lose should be based on articulately stating positions / stances on issues that are important to the American people, not how 'aggressive' you were.  

We're not comparing NBA point guards, we're supposedly gaining value insight into the two would-be presidents of the next 4 years.  What does aggression have to do with anything?

I know FutureMD is correct, debates should be based on that.

But it's never been like that. Never has, Never will. Not just America, people in general. The way you present yourself has always been the strongest indicator of how people perceive you. That's life, you guys have to deal with it or go out and change it because at the end of the day the overwhelming amount of the American public said Romney won, even tho he's been losing in the polls. That should say enough.

I'll tell yall one thing, I wouldn't want you or FutureMD being my campaign advisor. Have to give the people what they want, this is politics. Not class.

 

[futuremd]

Romney's rebuttal for Obama's version of healthcare: Well I got some democrats to vote for it!

Thats it? 

Ya'll were feeling that? 

Meanwhile overlooking that Obama faces a republican establishment that opposes him.

Meanwhile overlooking that Obamacare started as Universal Healthcare then devolved into the idea started in the late 80s by republicans that would inspire modern day Romneycare. 

Meanwhile overlooking the comparison of a state's legislature to a national bicameral congress.

This dude Mitt gives NO damn about facts, context, or consistency. 

 

[gene parmesean]

You are acting like any of these presidential debates will greatly influence the election. Barack has the black vote, the Hispanic vote and still a decent percentage of white liberals in his corner. That is all he needs to win the election. All he has to do is keep it slow and steady and that will win the race because he has those voting demographics locked up. Mitt Romney's only shot is the economy and he knows it. He has to be aggressive as hell to even get into Obama's ballpark. Obama remains calm, cool and collected and he wins. 

 

[mrbrown]

This reminds me of the JFK and Nixon debate

On radio Nixon killed..... but on TV JFK LOOKED better. Some say that helped JFK. All things should be taken into consideration.

lets not forget that most Americans go by looks and nothing else. It just seemed like Romney won even if he had no direction

 

[yeold360s]

alot of you seem to forget that obama is our current president and you owe your cushy lifestyle to this man

I legitimately LOL'ed

 

[futuremd]

You are acting like any of these presidential debates will greatly influence the election. Barack has the black vote, the Hispanic vote and still a decent percentage of white liberals in his corner. That is all he needs to win the election. All he has to do is keep it slow and steady and that will win the race because he has those voting demographics locked up. Mitt Romney's only shot is the economy and he knows it. He has to be aggressive as hell to even get into Obama's ballpark. Obama remains calm, cool and collected and he wins. 

Thing is, the economy is a weak argument too.

No president is going to "fix" the economy. 

All presidents can do is break them even further. 

The current economy is 40 years in the making based on policies from both sides. 

You don't fix that in 4 years, especially after the hardest recession since the big one. 

You don't win when you blame the president for gas prices, or food stamps, or unemployment of college graduates.

Presidents do NOT have control over that.

I wish people understood what politicians can and can not do in regards to the economy. 

All they can do is hope to inspire people and therefore the markets to "improve" and make favorable tax policy.

Thats it. 

Even some of the benefit clinton gets is because of a booming tech industry that he kinda rode the wave on, not to mention his tax policy that was shown to work. 

However its been shown time and time again that supply side economics DO NOT WORK.

www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/435/ <- How politicians create jobs

 

[Coupé It]

Style is important to YOU.


I could care less if we elect quasimoto. 

If the dudes fundamentals are wack, we need to know it.

Ya'll would rather look at magazine ads with the guy than let him show you how to run things. 

Disgusting. 

No Future, Style is important to Americans, to politics. It's not my fault. I keep telling you this and you're letting this continue to fly by you. Come on man, this is simple.

You know damn well if style and perception weren't important Barack Obama would have never won the democratic primaries in 2008, never mind the election.

Come on, don't be mad that I'm telling the truth.

 

[Nike Jordan]

People thought Walter Mondale looked better than Reagan in their first debate.

Guess how well Mondale did in the election?